A La Carte (11/19)

in reading the jhop story, i wanted to ask why you added the oddness comment in your description. i realize they are doing what few of us would have the courage to do and perhaps in a manner that is different. but it sounded disparaging to me.

Elizabeth - Thanks for pointing that out. I shouldn't have used that word. I did so based on some things that weren't posted on the site so I just removed it.

FALSANI:Do you pray often?

OBAMA:Uh, yeah, I guess I do.

Its' not formal, me getting on my knees. I think I have an ongoing conversation with "God". I think throughout the day, I'm constantly asking "myself "questions about what "I'm" doing, why am "I" doing it. ------------------------------------------------------------------*A very telling answer.Obama, who is your "god", could it be you've made a god in your own image?--------------------------------------------------------------------Obama...I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.-----------------------*So he's a universalist, not a Christian.-----------------------FALSANI:So you got "yourself" born again?

OBAMA:Yeah-----------------*yeah, don't give God the credit, you did it yourself, on your terms, not God's.---------------------------..........that people haven't embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior that they're going to hell.

FALSANI:You don't believe that?

OBAMA:I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell.

I can't imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity.-------------------------------------------You are right Obama, "your" god would never send anyone to Hell, he couldn't, he doesn't exsist, he's figment of your imagination. You sir may profess Christianity, but by your own words, and stand on major moral issues, prove yourself a liar and a hypocrite.

So, really, Obamas "faith" is not based on the bible at all, he's cherry picked a few terms and given them new definitions. I suppose this is really a picture of what has happened to the church, by in large, in N. America.

It is obvious he is not a Christian, no more than any Muslim or Jew, or spiritualist, or humanist. Just because he names the name of Christ, doesn;'t mean it's true. We should pray for him, and ask that God will show him his sinfulness in His sight, so that he will come broken to the foot of the cross in genuine repentance and faith in the true God Jesus Christ.

Curits-

Obama's beliefs, as stated, are solidly within the mainstream of those who claim Christianity.

Like you, I question whether someone with Obama's beliefs truly understands the significance of sin, atonement, etc., but I don't think he's being especially disingenuous when he calls himself a Christian despite those beliefs. At least, not any more so than millions of other Americans.

That Nebraska law just shows us what we are capable of when unrestricted. Thank God for laws that keep some measure of peace. It is interesting to see the conclusion the article comes to, that there are no "bad families". Instead of realizing there are far more bad families than we ever realized (all of us).

My point was that Obama isn't special in this regard.

Barna has some interesting stats on this stuff. He classifies people into four categories based on their answers to some theological questions. There are those that don't identify as Christians, those who identify as Christians but don't meet the criteria for being "born again", those who meet the criteria for "born again" but not "evangelical" and finally the group of "evangelicals".

The criteria for each group are:http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=8http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=17

Given that, here are some crazy stats:

* 41% of adults believe Jesus committed sins while he was on earth. Since 83% of adults identify as "Christians" that means at least 29% of those who self-identify as "Christians" don't believe Jesus was sinless.

* 46% of those who meet the "born again" criteria deny the existence of Satan as a sentient being, viewing him instead as a "symbol of evil".

* 53% of adults believe that if a person is good enough, or does enough good things for other people, then he will go to heaven. Since 83% of Americans self-identify as Christians that means at least 43% of those who self-identify as Christians hold this view.

J.P.H., I've seen stats like these before, and they are scary. It really puts into perspective all that Christ said about , wheat and tares, sheep and goats....

I even heard that Christianity Today had an article by 9 top(popular) evangelical scholars, pastor, and evangelists, and not only did only 2 of them use the word repent, they redefined it as a synonym for faith.

It was also said in Christianity Today that having to have an understanding of the atonement to be saved was to narrow of a view. Oh really, didn't Jesus have something to say about a narrow road...I'll have to check into that one.

ianmcn said..."At least saying a prayer is a step in the right direction, and coupling that with contact with a local church that can provide discipleship it can become something genuine. "

Not when they're praying to a god that is a figment of their imagination, and they're attending one of the hundreds, even thousands, of false gospel, prosperity centered, church buildings that have'nt ever been graced by the Holy Spirit. Where there is no conviction of sin, the Holy Spirit is not in it, and I'd even go so far as to say that it's actually a step in the wrong direction. Why? Because they will live their lives thinking they are saved, believing they are going to Heaven, when in fact they will hear those dreaded words from Christ, Depart from me, I never knew you. That breaks my heart.---------------------------------------------------I want to appologize to you Tim, I've said much that I know to be true, but I am sorry for the manner in which I have said it. I know I can come accross as unloving and cold, please understand, I lived in and under a false hope, and false Christianity for most of my life, and it was crushing when I saw my own sin truely through the eyes of God. The hardest part about coming out of the false gospel was realizing that so few people were willing to stand up for the truth and rebuke, or reprove. It wasn't until I happened upon John MacArthur on the radio that I finally heard the truth. And I grew up in a so-called "Christian" home!

Please people, the gospel is an offence to the unregenerate, they hate God, and they reject Jesus Christ, I did, and yet I thought I was saved, I thought I loved God, when in fact I loved the god of my own making, I loved "my" god. People will hate your message, but please, please preach it, just be sure to temper it with more love than I do.

ianmcn said...I believe there is a greater understanding today than ever that being a Christian means change

------------------------The matter is what that change is, and what change needs to happen. Most professing Christians believe they are basically "good" people, although they do and have sinned. They don't see themselves as desperately wicked, dead in tresspasses, evil, God haters. And until they do , there is no real repentance.

All people would agree that the Christian life means change. Most of the people who call themselves Christian would say that the change is one of morality, whereas I would say it is one of dying to self, and being raised from the dead. They would say the change is one that I need to do, I would say the change is like all parts of salvation, all of Him, a supernatural act.