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A La Carte (5/19)
- 05/19/10
- 17
Nothing Should Exist - Gene Edward Veith says “I hadn’t realized that science, despite all of the claims that it has all the answers, remains stuck at a very basic conundrum.” Science is still stuck on the problem that nothing should exist and yet, well, obviously plenty does exist.
Flooded - Jars of Clay has put together a benefit album to support the Nashville relief effort. At their site you can buy an EP for $1 with all proceeds going to that good cause.
Kindle’s Most Popular Bible Passages - Ray Fowler did some legwork and found out what Bible passages are the most commonly highlighted on the Kindle. Not surprisingly, a lot of the passages focus on trusting in God.
Arrested in Haiti - You remember the story of those Americans arrested and imprisoned on Haiti. Baptist Press has an article talking about how the story has wrapped up. The story they are telling is far, far different than the story we heard in the media, though that’s no great surprise to you, I’m sure.
Nicking Our Public Discourse - Mark Steyn, who has made a career out of being alarmist (and who does it so well), sounds the alarm about increasing capitulation to Islam. “At Ford Hood, Major Hasan jumped on a table and gunned down his comrades while screaming ‘Allahu Akbar!’ — which is Arabic for ‘Nothing to see here’ and an early indicator of pre-post-traumatic stress disorder. The Times Square bomber, we are assured by the Washington Post, CNN, and Newsweek, was upset by foreclosure proceedings on his house. Mortgage-related issues. Nothing to do with months of training at a Taliban camp in Waziristan.”

I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at
Releasing on April 1, The Next
Comments (17)
The Jars of Clay EP is great. Well worth getting
I love how the Baptist Press story sets things straight. I also love how the story brings into full view the perspective to be seen from a Christian’s point of view.
I just wish that they would refer to themselves as the ‘10 Christians’ instead of the ‘10 Baptists’.
Oh well…
Mark Steyn has made a career out of being an alarmist? What?
Veith’s contribution is what, a hit piece on science? “Hah! Those scientists…they don’t know anything!”
An alarmist in the sense of trying to wake people up to reality.He certainly stands out in sharp contrast to the PC crowd that is running things in this country.Or should I say “ruining”things in this country?
JPH- Vieth isn’t doing a hit piece on science, he’s doing a hit piece on scientists doing theology (or philosophy, if you prefer). He’s not saying scientists don’t know anything, he’s saying they don’t know anything about the supernatural (which they define as out of bounds anyway).
Why the sarcasm?
“Why the sarcasm?”
Because what he wrote came across as snide and anti-intellectual, two things that irritate me.
“he’s doing a hit piece on scientists doing theology”
I didn’t get that at all. It seemed more like him pointing a finger at “science”, in general, and doing the Nelson Muntz “ha ha” from “The Simpsons”. As if he were saying, “You guys can’t even figure out why we exist, and you expect me to take your word on {insert contentious scientific theory}?!?”
He seems to assert that because “science” doesn’t explain everything, right now that its somehow deficient as a source of knowledge.
There’s also this: “despite all of the claims that it has all the answers…”
I don’t know any sane scientist who would claim that the current body of scientific knowledge contains “all the answers”.
I don’t think Veith was being antagonistic towards science .Science teachers make absolute statements all the time in the class room . My sons have encountered this over and over again about origins . Plus at my home church we have numerous scientist in the fields of biology,physics and genetics and having talked to them , they have said what annoys them the most about many in their fields of study ,is the rubber stamping that happens against any belief in a Creator. The arrogance of Dawkins and his followers is very evident if you try to engage them at all . They sure seem to think they have all the answers.
“I don’t know any sane scientist who would claim that the current body of scientific knowledge contains ‘all the answers’.”
Again, it sounds like you are setting up straw men for your argument. Veith never said anything like this. His point was about scientists who say that science is capable of giving us ‘all the answers’, or similar humanistic philosophic claims.
I’m a PhD-level scientist, and I’ve encountered quite a few colleagues who think we already have all the answers, but just haven’t ‘discovered’ them yet. Now, whether or not they are sane remains to be seen. But they do make the claim.
Science by its very nature is (as you term it) a deficient source of knowledge, because it defines anything other than the natural as improper for or impossible to study or understand (error of naturalism). That doesn’t mean that science is a non-useful source of knowledge (and Veith never claims or intimates that), or that science doesn’t do a very, very good job at what it claims it does (error of mysticism). The problem (and irony) that Veith is trying to point out is those in the field of science who refuse to acknowledge their limitations and become (as Reg S points out) arrogant in their viewpoint that nothing else matters or has any value, all the whilst they can’t even give a cogent explanation of the origin of physical matter, much less answer any of the ‘why’ questions about that matter.
Will science ever get to good explanations of some of these hard questions of the ‘how’ or the ‘what’? I think so. Will science ever get to a good explanation of ‘why’ or the ‘who’? Never.
I still have little sympathy for those baptists who went to Haiti on their ‘mission’. I am sure that they meant well, but just reading the paper stating their projected itinerary and goals showed that they had no business being there. They could have gone to help under another organization, one that actually understood what was going on. Instead figuring out what was needed in paperwork from people who were not border officers nets an understandable result. The mission never had the time needed to do its job rightly it was a train wreck before they left the US. I saved a copy of their mission plan for future use as a case study in what not to do for a short term mission project.
I’ll go with Doc’s charitable explanation of Veith’s arguments. He writes:
I hadn’t realized that science, despite all of the claims that it has all the answers, remains stuck at a very basic conundrum:
Here he seems to be saying that if one believes science has the capacity to eventually explain the full material nature of creation (i.e. “has all the answers”) then the fact that science “remains stuck at a very basic conundrum” is somehow problematic. I’m not sure I see the problem.
“We don’t know why X is the case, it certainly conflicts with our current models” doesn’t imply “We won’t ever figure out why X is the case, or develop models that incorporate X.”
Veith also writes:
So it isn’t just that science can’t explain the fine-tuning that makes life on earth possible. Nor is it that science can’t explain why anything exists. According to its own theories, nothing CAN exist.
You’re telling me you don’t detect an implicit, “Boy is ‘science’ dumb!” at the end of that paragraph? ‘Science’ is so screwed up that its own models predict nothing should exist! How can we trust ‘science’ at all?!?
That wasn’t my reaction. My reaction was that it implied, “So this shows why something beyond science is needed, to demonstrate not only why things exist, but that they even truly do.” So I think what you bring to it might influence what you find “implicit” in it. Probably only GE Veith can answer for which he meant.
I agree, Mark. Merriam-Webster defines alarmism as “the often unwarranted exciting of fears or warning of danger.” I think “alarmist” is mostly used to mean one who gives an unwarranted warning of danger.
Nope, I don’t detect the implicit statement or idea. I do detect an implicit (or maybe explicit), “boy is the error of naturalism dumb!”. I hear him saying that naturalistic models shouldn’t be forced upon supernatural phenomena, and they are when physics tries to explain they ‘why’ of matter and the universe. This antinomy is inescapable.
Maybe I’m being to generous with Dr Veith’s comments. But I’ve never seen him as anti-intellectual in any of his other writings.
When I was a philosophy major at a secular state university, I learned quickly that the most fundamental philosophical question is: Why is there something, rather than nothing. As a Christian I used this question to prompt the hoped-for-vexing question to my fellow classmates: Are we here by accident, or is there cosmic meaning to our lives. Had I been studied in presuppositionalism at that time, I would had used that argumentation. Nevertheless…
Thanks for posting that article, Tim.
I was struck by the fact the Baptists in Haiti did not even realize that they might need documentation until after they were already rounding up kids. It was definitely a different side of the story, but still not one that quite makes them look innocent. Sure, they weren’t kidnappers intentionally, but geez that was a really poorly conceived and idea.
I have a lot of sympathy for the folks involved in the Haitian debacle. The Baptists did seem a bit bumbling in terms of preparation but keep in mind the scope of the crisis in this situation. An already rickety government had literally crumbled. They were given what they thought were proper documents as they received children, but I would like to know much more about how they made their contacts within Haiti. Contacts that would later turn over to them 33 false orphans.
What exactly is required for adoption in countries like Haiti has always been much more fluid than in developed countries. In Russia and Ukraine, figuring in what amounts to bribe money for those officials involved is expected. I would imagine situations involving orphanages are no more standardized than adoptions.
The role of Unicef came as no surprise to me. As I research more about adoption, the influence of their far-reaching anti-adoption stance becomes undeniable and frustrating. They don’t much care for faith-based organizations either. Despite what seem to be missteps on the part of the Americans, I have to wonder if the organizational culture of Unicef came into play here as well.