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A La Carte (8/30)
- 08/30/10
- 16
God, the Gospel and Glenn Beck - Russell Moore looks at this weekend’s happenings is Washington and is not thrilled. “A Mormon television star stands in front of the Lincoln Memorial and calls American Christians to revival. He assembles some evangelical celebrities to give testimonies, and then preaches a God and country revivalism that leaves the evangelicals cheering that they've heard the gospel, right there in the nation's capital.”
The Bride Wore Cowboy Boots - Mark Altrogge: “I knew it was going to be different when the bridesmaids and bride came in wearing cowboy boots. But I knew the wedding would be wonderful long before Saturday, because the couple is an amazing couple.”
Insolence Upbraided - Read this little snippet from the life of G. Campbell Morgan: “An incident occurred in connection with meetings held in a town in England, which shows a side of Campbell Morgan few people ever knew, and those who did, it is likely, never forgot. Soon after concluding a series of meetings at which the offering had been particularly generous (which was not always the case!) Dr. Morgan received the following letter…”
Life Together - or Maybe Not - Carl Trueman has some really good things to say in this post. “I am immensely grateful that I have only ever held membership in churches of a size where the pastor has always been accessible and available. Indeed, my pastors have always even known my name, my wife’s name, my kids’ names, and even what sports they play (this latter may seem trivial but it has been peculiarly important to me: my kids may not always enjoy going to church; but they have never doubted that the pastor actually cares for them; and that is something for which I am more grateful than I can articulate).”
Nancy Pearcey in Washington - This may interest you if you’re in or near DC. “Nancy will be speaking at a ‘Faith and Law’ event in the U.S. Capitol Visitors Center on September 1, the date of the release of her new book Saving Leonardo: A Call to Resist the Secular Assault on Mind, Morals, & Meaning.
Remembering Katrina - The Big Picture looks five years into the past to remember Hurricane Katrina and all the devastation it caused.
“Endurance and perseverance are qualities we would all like to possess, but we are loath to go through the process that produces them.” —Jerry Bridges
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at 
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Comments (16)
Wow. Big high five to Russell Moore.
I’d rather high-five Trueman. Outstanding.
Yeah. I appreciated what Trueman wrote too. Though, I think he may have gone a little overboard on trashing the “big church” model. For instance, the guy who wrote him that letter- couldn’t he have sought answers from someone else in the church other than the head pastor? Associate pastor, small group leader, random-wise-congregant, etc.? Should any church model in which the head pastor can not be imminently “available” to congregants be rejected? I don’t know. Maybe the answer is yes.
I think they both qualify for a high-five. What was said in both cases desperately needed to be said.
JPH - I think Trueman also overstated things a little bit, but overstatement is a valid literary technique! Most big-church pastors can’t help that they are big-church pastors. There is a kind of inevitability about things when the church explodes in size and I don’t know that we can turn and blame the pastors.
Wow. Rock on Russell Moore! My respect meter for him just went way up. Not normally a big fan of Southern Baptist Fundamentalism, but the good doctor nailed that one. I’m always pleased when anyone, of any stripe, elevates Jesus above flag and country.
“For instance, the guy who wrote him that letter- couldn’t he have sought answers from someone else in the church other than the head pastor? ”
Sure. In any church, large or small, there should be those relationships, and many people other than the pastor willing and able to stand in that kind of position.
But how can a pastor “pastor” the flock, if he doesn’t know his sheep? Other people should be able to provide answers, encouragement, help — but it’s the pastor’s JOB to do it, and how can he do it if he’s not able to have even a normal level friendship with all but a tiny percentage of his flock?
That said, I agree with Tim — the answer isn’t just to condemn all large churches. But I think the answer is to prefer smaller ones.
I feel like the “pastors” of big churches are actually filling a different role than the “pastors” of smaller churches. In the big church model they’re more like…”high level teachers” and/or vision casting. So maybe “pastor” is a misnomer and they should be called something else. “Executive teacher”?
I see that Dr. Moore closed his blog to comments… disappointing.
Maybe it’s just me - but while I completely agreed with Dr Moore’s assessment of Beck and the state of Christian depth - he seems to allow more freedom of association over ecological issues.
Here’s a direct quote from his article Ecological Catastrophe and the Uneasy Evangelical Conscience:
“Working with our secular progressive neighbors on, for instance, saving the Gulf no more compromises the evangelical witness than our working with feminists to combat pornography or with Latter-day Saints to protect marriage.”
So what am I missing? It’s OK to partner with Mormons over marriage or ecological issues, but not to partner over politics?
It seems like there’s a bizarre dynamic at work lately where our more educated Christians are falling for more environmental junk-science but correctly seeing the wrong elevation of patriotism - while those less educated are fooled by “Christian sounding” rhetoric, but are blessed with enough common sense to not buy into all the silly so-called “science” that permeates today’s contemporary mind in regards to the environment.
Absolutely agree that the aforementioned church member should have sought answers from someone else on the pastoral staff. I think it’s a form of narcissism or pride that certain people think their own questions are so important and profound that only a “senior” pastor can address them.
Carl’s criticism is too harsh. Its necessary conclusion is that no church can grow beyond the point where the senior pastor knows each person individually.
I’ve pondered the question of mega-pastor and his role vs small-church pastor for quite some time. I don’t think there is an easy answer. What comes most strongly to mind is the Scriptures that teach about the varying giftedness of the members that make up the entirety of the body of Christ. It seems that some of the mega-pastors have truly been gifted with teaching, and it would be wrong (in my opinion) to rob both their own congregation and the rest of the world (including the unbelieving world) of that giftedness on the basis of their not knowing the names of every member of the congregation. I have experienced other pastors that are truly gifted in pastoring but lamentably poor in preaching/teaching. So in some circumstances it would seem preferable to have a “division of duties” such that one is the teaching pastor and one is the pastoring pastor, if that makes any sense.
Trueman’s article really struck me the wrong way. Haughty tone aside, it was also a largely Scripture-free rebuke. As I was reading it I couldn’t help but wonder how many people wanted to talk to Peter, Paul, James, etc. about their issues, but could “only get an overseer” (so to speak). There is no Scripture that says that every member must have immediate audience available with whatever teaching elder they choose to call upon. How many of John MacArthur’s members get immediate personal audience with him? How many of Matt Chandlers? John Pipers? And on and on. Yet Trueman seems ready to castigate these men who pastor a church over about 100 or so.
I don’t know if Trueman was referring to Mark Driscoll and his church or not, but there are strong intimations of such. Even so, Driscoll once addressed the issue of his growing congregation and those who feel entitled to personal audience with him. To paraphrase quite a bit, Driscoll explained that the vast majority of time people who demanded an audience “needed” (or so they thought) Mark—no one else would do. This is not at all so, Driscoll explained, because all the elders — not just the teaching pastor or Singles Pastor or other visible man — are accountable for souls and are selected because they are capable ministers. As evidence by the man who Trueman writes about, the man’s questions could easily have been answered a pastor/elder other than the lead pastor with whom the man demanded personal audience. Driscoll pointed out the near-idolatry in the attitude that one man and only one man was able to counsel someone (i.e., the “I HAVE to speak to THE pastor, NO one else!!” attitude). “No, ” I remember Driscoll saying clearly, “you need Jesus.” Jesus is the only one who is so indispensable that we simply cannot accept a substitute. Also, people with such entitlement attitude more often than not are dealing with deep sin and simply reject all church authority except the one man/pastor they’re willing to listen to. In other words, they don’t want to operate within the church the way God has set it up, but instead they demand that the church and its leaders submit to their own selfish appropriation of the lead pastor to be their personal counselor and Bible answer man.
The reality is that most simply need rebuke, accountability and on-going, in-depth pastoral care and instruction — something the lead pastor of a large church cannot provide for everyone on-demand. What Trueman misses is that no Scripture makes such a demand on a pastor.
I’m with Eloquorius on this one. I’ve been at one church my whole life, and it’s small enough (250-or-so membership) that all our pastors know everyone in the church. I can agree that it’s nice to be in a church where the pastors all know me, my wife and my children.
But I also got the rockstar Christianity overtures when reading that post, as if the person in question could only have his question answered by the pastor-teacher; none of the other pastors would do. The biblical model seems to me to be a plurality of pastors in a church. All the pastors must qualify according to 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, and so any one of them should be able to answer theological questions.
I’m not too sure that I agree with Pentamom about “preferring small churches.” The church in Jerusalem boomed to 3,000 overnight at Pentecost. By Acts 4:4 the church was 5,000 men strong. In Acts 6 the church is simply described as a “multitude.” That’s a pretty big church. I somehow doubt that each of the twelve apostles was able to give personal oversight to each member of the church. They served as a team.
I’m not suggesting that all Christ-centred churches must necessarily be large. I think the size of a church is all within God’s sovereignty, but surely healthy things grow.
I posted a response to Dr. Moore today. I think his statements beg the question as to who is responsible for the vacuum that Glenn Beck and others have filled. Pastors are not truly trained to deal with public policy issues and, as Dr. Moore helps lead a seminary, pehaps he should not just criticize but help fix the problem.
I think Trueman’s article has probably been hit hard enough. But my pastor Andy Stanley, has said from the pulpit many times that he doesn’t do counseling any more. Some still want to see him, but rarely does he meet with them. And the reason is extremely biblical. He is not gifted in counseling. He is good at teaching, that is what he does. The good part of having a large church is that you can have people on staff that are gifted in many different areas. I have mostly been a part of small churches in my life. And in none of them did I have a pastor that was a gifted teacher and counselor, and those are only two of the many roles that most pastor’s fill. In many ways I think large churches can actually better fulfill the call for acting as a body with a diversity of gifts. Obviously there are negatives to large bodies as well. But I would not include Trueman’s complaints.