Call The Sabbath A Delight
I recently heard someone say “I follow all 9 of the 10 commandments.” It is true, isn’t it, that we continue to regard each of the other 9 commandments as being integral to the Christian life, but have disregarded the fourth. A few years ago I read an article written by an unbeliever and published in a major newspaper where she questioned how Christians could simply disregard this commandment. Her conclusion was that it was mere disobedience - that Christians disregarded the commandment simply because following it would conflict with our lifestyles. Was she on to something, or did she merely misunderstand the relationship of the Old Testament to the New - a very common problem with believers and unbelievers alike?
Call The Sabbath A Delight is the first book I have read dedicated entirely to the subject of Sabbath observance in the post Old Testament era. I have read bits and pieces of information regarding why we should or should not continue to honor the fourth commandment, but never a book-length treatment. This particular book is published by Banner of Truth which should give a pretty good indication of which side the author will take. He represents the view that I was raised with. I was raised in a Presbyterian home and attended Reformed schools and churches and was continually admonished to keep the Sabbath holy. I spent one year of my life in Scotland and there we were taught that we were not even to play with friends on Sunday, but were instead to read our Bibles and study our Catechisms. While the author, Walter Chandry, may not be that strict, he clearly believes that Christians have abandoned a practice which we need to rediscover out of obedience to God.
A common argument against observing the Sabbath in our time is that Christ did away with the moral Law when He died for us. Underlying this observation is a belief or assumption that the Sabbath was somehow a burdensome obligation for God’s people, but nothing could be farther from the truth. The Sabbath was a creation ordinance, for even in a perfect world God rested on the seventh day and declared it as being set apart to Him. So when we examine this issue we need to do so free from a bias that the Sabbath was an obligation. On the contrary it was a wonderful privilege, given by a loving God. Any harm that befell the day was the fault of sinful humans who are adept at turning anything wonderful into something burdensome.
The author covers the following topics:
1. The Commandment is Holy
2. The Commandment is Spiritual
3. The Commandment is Good
4. Does the NT Teach the 4th Commandment?
5. Sabbath Observance: Mosaic and Christian
6. Motives for Sabbath-Keeping
7. Which Day of the Week in the Sabbath?
8. Difficult Cases of Conscience
I will leave you to read his arguments on your own if the topic interests you. His conclusion is that the Sabbath, as a creation ordinance, continues to this day so that God requires that we continue to honor it even today. “No age has ever more intensely needed Sabbath-keeping than ours. Attempts to scrap God’s moral law and to replace it with institutions and schemes of human invention are miserably failing. Sabbath-keeping in isolation is not an answer to all man’s ills. Yet, this law is intimately related to all others and has a necessary connection with the other branches of God’s moral code. Where even small segments of mankind have succeeded in implementing a joyful observance of the Sabbath, they have reaped enormous benefit. It is time for us, too, to call the Sabbath a delight and to return unto the Lord.”
While his arguments are compelling, I am not sure that they are strong enough to convict the evangelical who has never even considered that the Sabbath may extend to our day. His argument is valuable, though, for it represents the view held by many Presbyterian and Reformed believers. Their belief is one which many, if not the majority, of Christians held until recent times.
As for me, I admit with some shame that I do not honor the Sabbath as I used to. I refrain from working and try to set the day apart, but certainly do not treat the day in a way which would make my Presbyterian friends proud. Do I believe that the church would benefit from returning to honoring the Sabbath? I certainly do. But do I truly believe this is an obligation? That is where I am not quite so sure. I struggle with this issue and intend to keep reading about it, studying both perspectives.


Comments (245) »
1. The Preacher's Wife
February 5, 2006
3:17 PM
I was raised in a presbyterian church in the Highlands of Scotland. Sabbath observance there was more about what you couldn’t do, which as a child seemed to be pretty much everything. Nothing was open except hotels, there were no ferries to the islands either. It was only 3 years ago that flights in and out of the Isle of Lewis (the largest Hebridean island)started on a Sunday, I believe the ferry still doesn’t go on a Sunday.
In 1994 that shops in England and Wales were open for the first time following a relaxation of the Sunday Trading Laws.
Well, I’m not in Scotland now, but in London and I’m married to a presbyterian minister. We would try to keep the sabbath as best we can, we often have people back from church for lunch, if we don’t already have folk staying with us, and then we have another service in the evening at church. We try to make it a day that the children especially enjoy and that they would see it as a postive thing.
2. The Preacher's Wife
February 5, 2006
3:20 PM
just one more thing - Walter Chantry has been pastor of a Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, PA since the 60’s I think, he may be retired now though.
3. David Chalkley
February 5, 2006
3:22 PM
Rev. Walter Chantry was for years the pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. I am nearly certain he is a Baptist.
Like you, I have long been unable to state a clear conclusion on why we should keep the Sabbath, but also like you, I have thought that so many truly godly believers in the past had true, Biblical reasons for why they believed as they did. Though I cannot prove so yet, I believe that Scripture — and secondly the exemplary ones before us who so clearly, strongly believed in this — show that we should. I would be glad for more insights from you as you probe this further.
4. Chelsey Karns
February 5, 2006
3:27 PM
I think that regardless of how much Scriptural evidence you may find to support the keeping of the Sabbath in today’s day and age, attempting to honor it for a period of time is enough to convince almost anyone of the value of it.
I’m 19 years old, in college, work 15 hours a week, and have an overloaded course schedule. But ever since I was in high school and my youth pastor admonished me not to do homework on Sundays, I have tried to discipline myself to do so. It is hard. Especially in college. I really have to plan ahead — if I know I have a test on Monday, then I try to study hard Friday and Saturday, and I don’t consider myself a hermit… I like to go out with friends as much as the next person. But as years have passed and this has become something natural, not something I have to really fight for, I have found myself actually looking forward to Sundays. It is so freeing to be sitting in church and not be worrying about what I have to do in the afternoon. And I have found great blessing from God — I have never felt like I’ve done worse on a Monday test because I didn’t study the night before.
I don’t mean to sound legalistic, as there have certainly been weekends full of obligations that required me to do homework on Sunday. But I even say that tongue-in-cheek, because I could get up Monday mornings and do that work. While I guess it is difficult to prove that this is something we are still commanded to do, instead of being technical about it, I would rather think that one should examine their heart and think about their motives for not wanting to make the Sabbath a day of rest.
5. Phil
February 5, 2006
3:52 PM
As John MacArthur notes, “In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come.” I just don’t understand why some people have a hard time with the idea the Christ could change things — either through direct teaching, or through fulfillment. I’m new (only a few years) to Reformed theology, but have been a Christian for 15 years. When I came to the Reformed side of things, I felt like I was being told, “Yeah, yeah, OK, Christ died for us and all that, whatever… but if you really want to live right, go back to Torah!” That’s not meant to be inflamatory, it’s just how I really felt. Every Sabbath-keeping proponent I’ve ever met or read comes within an inch of doubting at least the sincerity (if not the very salvation) of those who see Christ as their rest in accordance with Pauline epistles.
See: “Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today?” by John MacArthur. I think he not only makes his points clearly, but soundly addresses (in the negative) every claim of the Sabbath-keepers.
Here are the facts for the NT Church in the Bible: The Apostles never imposed Sabbath-keeping; They never warned anyone against not keeping it (only against not meeting); they rebuked the Galations for imposing Sabbath-keeping (Gal 4); and believers we told not to “let any one judge you” regarding keeping Sabbath or other OT observances.
One would think that would settle it, but it doesn’t. When one’s theology goes against Apostolic teaching and practice, playing the “Yeah, but… yeah, but…” game and running to (fulfilled) OT commandments is not a vialbe theological solution.
6. Phil
February 5, 2006
4:02 PM
One quick follow-up, regarding Chantry’s admonition that we should consider Sabbath a joy and not a burden, I have this in reply: Mr. Chantry, I have entered into Christ, and thus entered into the rest for which Paul said Sabbath was a foreshadowing. I praise God that I have entered into the joy of that rest, and I praise Him more that the “new” and “superior” covenant in Christ allows me that rest for the other six days a week also.
7. Davey
February 5, 2006
4:41 PM
Fine day for you to post this, Tim. It being Superbowl Sunday here in America, and all.
It’s funny you would bring this up though - as I just finished reading our Sunday paper which took about 2 1/2 hours. I wonder if that’s the best way for me to spend my Sunday afternoon and have wondered about this issue of the 4th commandment in the past. Does God want us to spend our Sunday afternoons with more reverence and reflection? Previous generations thought so.
It’s just that people tend to cry “legalism” anytime this topic is even brought up.
That being said, I appreciate Phil’s links to MacArthur’s position as it gave me something to think about.
8. David Sloss
February 5, 2006
5:00 PM
As to the issue of which day is celebrated as the Sabbath, it is worth noting that our Seventh Day Adventist friends have done considerable thinking and study on this issue. I would refer you to the writings of Dr. Sammuel Bacchiocchi.
Further I would suggest that Marva Dawn’s book Keeping the Sabbath Wholly is worth a read.
I would be interested in the timing of the change from Saturday to Sunday as the day of community worship and I think we do not find that within the pages of Scripture but in history. I am disturbed when I read that the instigation of this change was because everyone else was doing it - meaning that in the late Roman period Sunday was the day set aside to worship the Sun God and so it was convenient to join into these festivities.
Some would also suggest that the Roman Catholic Church was instrumental in making this change or practice.
Now to really disrupt things, if we examine the prophetic portions of Scripture, do we not find that the Sabbath will again be the day of corporate worship? (Ezekiel 46)
9. Cedric Hohnstadt
February 5, 2006
5:45 PM
This is a topic I’ve wrestled with for a long time. I seem to go through a cycle of keeping/not keeping/keeping/not keeping the Sabbath. I definitely want to read this book and ponder it. Most importantly I want to find and honor the spirit of the Sabbath without distorting it into any sort of legalism.
10. Tim Challies
February 5, 2006
8:00 PM
The one issue I just cannot get past is why we would affirm 9 of 10 commandments. We all agree that the other 9 continue to be valid and binding today. Why would one pass away?
11. Ellen
February 5, 2006
8:13 PM
All of the ten commandments are addressed in the New Testament. Nine of affirmed, the 4th commandment is fulfilled in Christ.
12. Chelsey Karns
February 5, 2006
8:26 PM
If you think to what Jesus told the Pharisees, though, I can’t remember him ever saying that the Sabbath law was no longer applicable. He certainly said that it was OK to help your neighbor, or to get your donkey out of a ditch, but I don’t know of a place where he said it was no longer meant to be honored.
And I can’t see the harm in honoring it even if it isn’t an explicit commandment anymore. If nothing else it leads to a greater joy in Christ, in taking a day off during the week from school, work, stresses, etc. to reflect on Him and study His Word.
13. Dan, The Roof Guy
February 5, 2006
9:56 PM
I was surprised to see this review on Walter Chantry’s book. I didn’t really know that WalterChantry wrote a book on the sabbath.
I do know now that he is a humble man.
I met Walter when I visited a small church of about 20 members near my house, and he took an interest in reaching out to me and talking. He never talked much about his ministry before, although his wife would try to tell me somethings, but I never picked up that he was an author.
He invited me to lunch at one point, and we went to Roy Rogers, and talked. He spent much time telling me of covenant theology, and interestingly enough we got on the topic about the Sabbath. He seemed very knowledgeable, and I truly enjoyed the discussion. (Although there are still parts of the Sabbatarian (sp?) arguements I don’t understand).
This blog was the first I time I realized that I he had authored this book (although I have since seen him quoted in other works).
14. Stan
February 5, 2006
10:00 PM
I agree with Phil’s comments. I am involved with a ministry for former SDAs and post at www.formeradventist.com One thing that kept me from quickly embracing the Reformed faith is because of their emphasis on the Old Covenant. If you folks who would impose Sabbatarianism were consistent, then you would do as my former cultic group of SDAs do and keep Saturday. At least I give them credit for consistency.
Then I was happy to see that John MacArthur endorsed a former SDA’s book by Dale Ratzlaff called “Sabbath in Christ”. I have also discovered John Reisinger’s New Covenant Theology at www.soundofgrace.com He has some great arguments against the imposition of a Sabbath of any kind. There is a wealth of information on New Covenant Theology there that is well worth reading. One article in particular is called “The Believer’s Sabbath”. Check out his information, and if you do I doubt you could hold a Sabbatarian position.
When you consider everything Paul did write negatively about the keeping of days in Rom 14, Col 2, and Gal 4, then wouldn’t you consider it strange that NOT ONE of the apostles in the epistles even mentioned to the Gentile church how to keep the Sabbath—not even once.
The former SDA apologist Robert Brinsmead said it well. “Those that hold to the idea that a 24 hour period of time makes any difference on a round world are about as outmoded as the flat earth society.”
Stan Ermshar
15. Dan, the Roof Guy
February 5, 2006
10:01 PM
By the way, he is reformed baptist. And he was retired from his pastorate in PA, and was humbly a member of a small country church I happened to find.
A humble man with a love for God’s people. And a heart for young men =)
Tim, we do affirm all 10 commandments. The sabboth is affirmed and we honor it in Christ’s rest.
16. Ellen
February 5, 2006
10:23 PM
If you think to what Jesus told the Pharisees,
If that’s the only part of the Bible that’s applicable, maybe.
But the law tells us who the Sabbath was for:
Ex. 31:17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.’ “
The Sabbath was for the Israelites.
Colossians 2:16-17, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”
The Sabbath was a shadow of things to come - the reality, our Sabbath rest - is in Christ.
17. Jeremy
February 5, 2006
11:08 PM
Regarding where did Jesus say the Sabbath was no longer applicable—where did He say the Passover was no longer applicable? Where did He tell the Jews that circumcision was no longer applicable? In fact, He proclaimed circumcision to be above the Sabbath (John 7:22-23), and yet never said it was no longer applicable.
But the NT makes it clear these laws are not binding on us and that we are NOT under the Law of Moses, but the Law of Messiah (Christ). 1 Cor. 9, etc.
If you’re gonna try to keep the Law you have to keep the WHOLE Law—Gal. 3.
TIM, we are NOT supposed to keep 9 out of 10 commandments. The whole Decalogue (which is the OId Covenant—Deut. 4:13, et al) has been done away with and REPLACED by the New Covenant. See 2 Cor. 3 and Heb. 8.
We are commanded to CAST OUT the Ten Commandments (the Old Covenant—Deut 4:13) in Galatians 4:30!
The New Covenant tells us how to live now and it’s moral standards are actually much higher than the Decalogue’s.
Jeremy
18. Davey
February 5, 2006
11:29 PM
Jeremy,
I respectfully disagree. Galations 4:30 is not telling us to “cast out” the 10 commandments. Galations 4:30 is simply telling us that salvation is no longer by works (keeping the law), but by faith in Christ.
Which one of the 10 commandment should we no longer follow? Thou shall not commit adultery? Covet? Murder?
No, we still have to do these things. The old law merely points us to Christ who further expanded on these laws (ie. Not simply ‘not’ murder, but also not hate your brother). We can’t keep the law, no one could - except Christ - so the law points us to Christ, and Christ alone for our salvation.
19. Jeremy
February 5, 2006
11:41 PM
Davey, to answer your question, we should no longer follow any of the Ten Commandments. Does this mean that I should steal? No, I must follow Eph. 4:28 which says to not steal. Does this mean I should lie? No, I must follow Col. 3:9 which says to not lie.
Etc.
In other words, I should follow the (even higher) moral standards of the New Covenant.
Here’s an analogy. American law tells me I can’t steal. But if I move to Canada, I am no longer under American law, correct? Does that mean that I am free to steal now? No, for I am now under Canadian law, which tells me I can’t steal.
See?
Jeremy
20. Jeremy
February 5, 2006
11:50 PM
I should add that in the above analogy, when I move to Canada and refrain from stealing, I am not following American law. Not at all. Even if some of Canada’s laws happen to be the same, I am following Canadian law and not American law.
The same is true with the Ten Commandments/ Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) which we are no longer under (and which us Gentiles never were anyway), and the New Covenant (the Law of Christ) which we are under.
Jeremy
21. Passer-by
February 6, 2006
12:23 AM
Which one of the 10 commandments should we no longer follow?
I would say we no longer “follow” any of them! Rather, they follow us through the power of the Spirit. We no longer are obligated to “keep” any of the 10C as a matter of Law, because each of the 10C is fulfilled by the Law of Love, which is mediated in us through the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Christ has fulfilled the Law for us, and now we live IN HIM, not under the Law. The 10C are the shadows; Christ is the substance.
Christ Himself said that all Ten could be summed up in two commandments: 1) love God (1-4), and 2) love your neighbor (5-6). Galatians (not “Galations,” BTW) is so clear that we are no longer under ANY law (Gal. 5:18), that I am frankly surprised this discussion is even taking place. If we say that we MUST obey the 10C, we are living in the flesh, and are deceived (Gal. 3:1-5). We are to live by the Spirit, which is the ONLY way we can please God. If we say that obeying (or following) the 10C can somehow please God, we have become boastful (Gal. 5:26). Whatever is not of the Spirit is of the flesh (Rom. 8:3-6).
Regarding the Sabbath, God gave those laws to Israel, but there is wisdom in them. We learn from them, and respect what they reveal about God’s character and righteousness, but they are not commands under the New Covenant—they were nailed to the cross with the rest of the Law. We can use them for principles, and see how they are fulfilled in the NT and in Christ, but we do not disobey God by not keeping the Sabbath. Rather, we respect the wisdom in the Sabbath principle and apply that to our lives. But we have FREEDOM IN THE SPIRIT as to what that means to each of us. There is no Christian Law of Sabbath.
22. Jim
February 6, 2006
12:39 AM
Great discussions and post. This truly is a largely misunderstood commandment. Until we realize that only in Christ can be at all righteous, we will continue to follow the ordinances of a man made religion.
What is the spiritual significance for the sabbath? Once you see the picture, you will see how finding our rest in Christ completely fulfills this law.
God bless,
Jim
23. Aaron
February 6, 2006
1:15 AM
I noticed some comments in this thread referring to what has been called “New Covenant Theology.” In what I have read so far from proponents of this view (little, but more and more gradually), not having to keep the Sabbath seems to be one of the driving motivations for this “new” view. It also makes for a very neat argument for credo-baptism. There are many things still being worked out in this theology and many potential problems (I think). To those who are interested and have read some of the arguments for this view, I might offer the following page with several sermons defending the old/traditional baptist covenant view (Jim Renihan & Fred Malone): Click Here - they are the ones from the 2005 Founders Conference Southwest.
24. Stan
February 6, 2006
3:28 AM
Tim,
Where is the evidence that the Sabbath is a creation ordinance? When I was a Seventh-day Adventist, you always heard the cliche about the two ordinances instituted at creation were marriage and the Sabbath. Well, marriage is clearly spelled out. But where is the word Sabbath in Gen. 2:1-3? If you notice that the first six creation days in the Genesis account are always completed by evening and morning, but the seventh day is open-ended. There is no evening and morning. In Hebrews 4:3,4 it is very clear “…And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: and on the seventh day God rested from all his work..”
So our Sabbath rest is complete in Christ, and He is the end of the law to all who believe. (Romans 10:4). Wouldn’t you think if Sabbath was a creation ordinance that there would be some mention of Adam through the rest of the patriarchs keeping the Sabbath. Look at Joseph in Egypt, do you think he kept the Sabbath.? The first mention of the Sabbath is Exodus 16 in connection with the manna, representing Christ as our Bread of Life. The very last mention of the Sabbath is Col. 2:16,17 where Christ is the substance of all the shadows with the Sabbath explicitly being mentioned as a shadow.
The Old Covenant sign was the Sabbath—Remember the Sabbath day. The sign of the New Covenant is the Lord’s supper when God again uses the word remember. “Do this in remembrance of me”
So we are to remember Christ. In Adventism, the Sabbath was worshipped instead of Christ. Shadows always subtract from substance.
Stan Ermshar
25. Colleen
February 6, 2006
3:32 AM
First, as a former Seventh-day Adventist I want to state clearly that my coming to believe Sabbath is not required of Christ-followers in the New Covenant has NOTHING to do with not wanting to keep the day. (That is an assumption I hear often.) I loved the Sabbath and believed it was one of the most precious gifts of my life.
The assumption that Jesus nailed only the “moral” law to the cross and not the entire law, including the decalogue (called the “words of the covenant” in Deuteronomy) is nowhere supported in Scripture. This belief comes from church tradition dating back to the third or fourth century—but not back to apostolic times.
Galatians clearly teaches that the law was a tutor to lead us to Christ; now that faith has come, we no longer need it (Gal. 3). Colossians 2 equally clearly discusses the fact that the law was nailed to the cross in the Person of Jesus. Romans 3-8 shows that the law is not part of our righteousness or salvation.
The transfiguration foreshadowed what happened after Jesus’ resurrection—the inauguration of the New Covenant. Jesus, Moses (who represented The Law to the Jews) and Elijah (who represented The Prophets) were transfigured with Jesus. Then a cloud covered the three, and Peter, James, and John who were gazing in awe fell to the ground. A voice from heaven said, “This is my Son; listen to Him!”
Then Jesus told the disciples to arise, and when they looked up, the Law and the Prophets were gone, and Jesus alone stood before them. Ringing in their ears was the echo of the voice of God commanding them to listen to Jesus. On their way down the mtn, Jesus told them not to tell anyone what they had seen and heard until AFTER His resurrection. (see Mattehw 17—this story is also in Mark and Luke.)
Until Jesus died, spilled his blood of the eternal covenant, and rose from the dead, forever breaking the power of death, the Old Covenant was in place. The law and the prophets still had to be observed by Israelites. When Jesus rose from death, however, He fulfilled the Old Covenant. From then on the law and the prophets which testified of Him were obsolete. He would now be the believer’s rule of faith and practice.
The indwelling Holy Spirit would write God’s law (which Jesus showed in Matthew 5-7 was MUCH bigger than the 10 Commandments) on human hearts. Hebrews 4 clarifies that there is a Sabbath rest TODAY for believers—a rest which Israel never entered in spite of centuries of Sabbath-keeping.
Today Sabbath rest is found in Jesus. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus made clear that the real intent of the law was much deeper than moral behavior. True law-keeping/righteousness requires absolute perfection in motive and thought. He was outlining not new standards of behavior; He was showing what life in the Spirit would look like. Only a person born again and brought to spiritual life by God Himself indwelling him could hope to live according to the impossible standards Jesus set.
Similarly, the Sabbath, like the rest of the law (see Luke 24:44) was fulfilled in Jesus. Just as He raised the standard on all the other Old Testament laws, so he raised the bar on the Sabbath. We are to enter Christ’s rest (Hebrews 4); we are to observe Sabbath every single day. Now we move through every activity conscious of Jesus, speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, keeping a song in our hearts, always praising the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 5: 19-20).
Our lives are not to be divided between sacred and secular; we are to offer our bodies as living sacrifices (Romans 12:1), all we do is to, for, and from Jesus. Taking a day to rest is fine, but it is not required.
When Jesus told the Pharisees in Matthew 13 that one greater than the temple was here, He was claiming to house in Himself the atonement, the sacrifices, the law, the presence of God. “The law is in me; the Sabbath is In ME,” he might as well have said.
As has been pointed out, if the decalogue is for new covenant Christians, then Christendom has no choice but to observe the seventh day in the way the OT commanded—including stoning of those who break the day by leaving their tents, lighting a fire, etc.
The Decalogue, however, was always for the purpose of revealing sin, not of stopping sin. Jesus broke the power of sin and death, and the Holy Spirit in us—the seal of God—give us the resurrection power of Christ, and He makes us new. He makes us moral; He changes our hearts at the deepest level.
Now we live by God Himself and not by an external law! Praise Jesus!
Colleen
26. Passer-by
February 6, 2006
8:22 AM
Colleen: Thank you for blowing away the fog surrounding the Sabbath. I was instructed and encouraged by your comments. Jesus is Lord…over ALL!
27. John Divito
February 6, 2006
8:29 AM
For those who are interested, here are a couple more useful study materials:
1) Joseph Pipa, The Lord’s Day
2) Sam Waldron, “A Critical Introduction to New Covenant Theology” (in PDF format)
28. Davey
February 6, 2006
9:28 AM
Jeremy and passer-by,
I thought I made my point clear in my very short post at the end when I said “We can’t keep the law, no one could - except Christ - so the law points us to Christ, and Christ alone for our salvation.”
I am not saying that we are still to keep the “law” to attain our salvation. I understand that Christ came to fulfill the law and that we find our salvation in Him. I get that.
But I just read 2Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,”
This simply means to me that there is great benefit to be found in all of scripture. And I’m not claiming you guys don’t believe that as well. I’m simply saying that the 10 commandments (and the entire OT) are very important because it all points to Christ and it helps us understand the nature of God.
I’m not calling for some sort of legalistic sabbath rule keeping like the seventh dayers. And I know I have some thinking to do on this.
Spugeon said in a commentary: “Our Lord performed many of his noblest cures on the Sabbath, as if to show that the day was ordained to glorify God by yielding benefit to man. If at one time more than another the hailing virtue flows freely from our Lord, it is on that one day in seven which is reserved for holy uses, and is called “the Lord’s Day.” In Luke 14:1-5 he shows how suitable it is that a holy day should be crowned with holy deeds of mercy and love.”
Spurgeon seemed to think one day a week way really a holy day for the Lord. Is this wrong? My simple problem with all of this is: how do we treat one day a week holy if we live it like every other day?
Can’t a person revere the sabbath (one day a week) simply because they love Christ, but not with the intent that they are “working” their way to heaven?
29. Passer-by
February 6, 2006
10:13 AM
Davey: Sorry if you felt I was somehow attacking your views. I was simply responding to the question you asked in your post.
Concerning the Spurgeon quote, he is right that Jesus’ healing on the Sabbath emphasized the redemptize nature of the day, but it goes much further than that. Jesus was also illustrating that in Him the redemption foreshadowed by Sabbath-keeping would be fulfilled. He is the Lord of the Sabbath. By doing “works” on the Sabbath, Jesus clearly sent the message that the Law of the Sabbath had been superceded by Him.
As to your desire to maintain a Sabbath day in your life, I think we are in agreement (see the last paragraph of my post). According to Galatians, you have freedom in Christ, through the Holy Spirit in your heart, to determine what that looks like for you. The simple truth for all of us, though, is that there is no Christian Law concerning the Sabbath, whether as to which day, or how long, or how to express a day of rest. The principle of working for six days and resting on one is certainly valid, but the concept that one particular day of the week is somehow more “holy” than the others, and therefore requires our reverence and obedience, has no support in the New Testament. We are each free in Christ to determine how to “rest” in Christ without fear of displeasing God.
30. Jim
February 6, 2006
10:16 AM
Colleen,
Excellent presentation of this truth. The Sabbath rest is simply found in Jesus Christ Himself. This is to be our experience 24/7.
However, the bible does talk about the Lord’s day. This should not be interpreted as a “Christian Sabbath” but rather a picture that as believers Christ now has preeminence in our lives and should have the first part of everything we are and have.
31. Davey
February 6, 2006
11:03 AM
Thanks for your comments, passer-by. I’m just trying to understand all this. I can see there is much I don’t understand about the differences between Covenant theology, New Covenant theology, etc… Some of this is confusing.
I agree with freedom in Christ: Romans 14:5 “One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.”
I’m just not sure that a new covenant view isn’t taking away from a traditional view of the topic a little. Got some reading to do.
Also, thanks for the links above, John.
32. Angela
February 6, 2006
11:25 AM
It is interesting that this is one of the topics since yesterday at church my pastor did a sermon on Sabbath (he’s doing a series on the 10 commandments). He talked mostly about how it is important to rest our bodies and shared that there was a study that revealed that our bodies work better when we rest 1 day out of seven. Unfortunately I don’t know where this study is, but I think the point is that we need to rest. It’s not really a matter anymore of one day being more holy than another and yes, our rest is found in Christ. My question is why would anyone argue with taking a day of rest??? If God said to me, “Angela, you’re a busy girl. You study alot, work a lot, clean alot, and go to so many meetings. Today I want you to rest. You can nap. You can read books. You could even watch a movie.” Why would I disagree?
And if God said this to you, what would stop you?
Life can b so stressful, and sometimes we just need to rest, not necessarily because the 10 commandments say so, but because our bodies say so. (sorry this is lacking in theology and scriptural backup!)
33. Melissa
February 6, 2006
11:32 AM
Davey, you certainly are free to keep any day. Read Romans 14. Scripture is clear that we are not to judge whether one thinks one day is holy or another views all the same. But that is so easy to say…many times those who hold to holy days (as in the sabbath) pass harsh criticism for those who take the opposite view that all days are the same. (Adventists believe you “prove” your loyalty to God by keeping the “7th day” sabbath. It is a part of their gospel of works, and I would NOT hold anything Sam Bacchiocchi says as unadulterated Bible. If you are not familiar with SDA doctrines, you are recommending something that many consider a false religion with a false gospel and a false prophet. Not sure you want to go down that road.) I suppose the judgement could go the other way, though I’ve never see that end.
If you study the sermon on the mount in comparison with the old covenant law, I cannot see how anyone can see the 10 commandments as still binding. The 10 commandments say “don’t murder”, Jesus said don’t be angry without cause. The 10 commandments said “don’t commit adultery”, Jesus said whoever lusts in his heart has already committed adultery. Other laws are mentioned in the same way. The law dealt with people’s external actions, but not so much with one’s heart. I can not murder or steal or take the name of the Lord in vain and still have a lot of hatred and anger and bitterness. I’ve kept the commandments, but certainly have not been transformed by Christ in my heart. Didn’t Jesus call the pharisees “white washed tombs”? Certainly they kept the law and then some, but they were still dead inside. Read Leviticus 23, and you will find that the 7th day sabbath was one of the feast days just like all the other jewish holy days. Yes, all scripture is profitable, and the law is good IF one uses it lawfully. But the purpose of the law is to show one’s need for a savior NOT to make one righteous. Scripture is clear that by the works of the law no man is justified. Read Galatians carefully. I think it says in 7 different ways why the old covenant law has no applicability to the Christian. The law was UNTIL the seed. And that seed is Christ. We follow Christ’s royal law. The stone tablets were called the “ministration of death”. We have to balance everything scripture says and not just take a phrase here or there to completely understand what the law was and what it is. And we certainly have to take the new covenant over the old. Jesus brought in the new covenant with his blood and when we really understand what that means, our lives will know a fullness not possible by merely following rules.
34. Alando
February 6, 2006
11:33 AM
The main question has to center around, Is Sabbath keeping a N.T. teaching? or even is the O.T. Sabbath our N.T. Lord’s day.
Pragmatism doesn’t drive our theology(no one here would allow Bill Hybels, Rick Warren to get away with it, although some of the things they do are beneficial)we don’t look to fruit and benefits to arrive at our theology. There are a lot of Bible scholar’s viewing this thread and one basic rule of interpretation is that the explicit always override the implicit, remember??? Is Sabbath keeping taught didactically in the Epistle’s? Not can it be implicitly observed somewhere in scripture. That would be like using the WoFthers method.
Colleen made an excellent point, if one is going to decide to keep the Sabbath as it was GIVEN in the O.T, at what point do we decide to change how it is to be kept. God gave specific things that were and were not to be done on that day, I see nowhere in Scripture where he relieved any of it’s requirements.
Tim, actually the Sabbath was a ceremonial aspect of the law. The other 9 were moral, which is why you can find any breaking of the 9 as sin, whereas nowhere can you find not keeping the Sabbath as sin in the N.T. Furthermore, Jesus reduced it to two Love Him with everything & love neighbor as self. This is why Paul is telling them in Rom. 14 that one regards one day as more holy than others and others don’t, let each one be convinced in his own mind. Now, if Sabbath was binding and a teaching for the entire church, would Paul teach them to sin, by not making it clear that they should be keeping one day Holy.
Dale Ratzlaff’s book “Sabbath in Christ” is extremely helpful and possibly the best treatment on this topic. www.ratzlaf.com
35. Melissa
February 6, 2006
11:53 AM
Angela, there’s nothing wrong with taking a day of rest for physical renewal, but the problem comes in when trying to tie it to the 10 commandments or to make it some sort of Biblical mandate. It is good to take some down time, but there is not a “correct” day or way to do that. My pastor made the same arguement when he was teaching on the 10 commandments, but I think that is just trying to “principlize” the commandment rather than saying it was what it was and has served it’s purpose as the shadow of Christ. Especially with all the social uproar about the 10 commandments, I think people are wanting a way to show value to all of them rather than truly understanding their purpose.
Regarding the history concern someone mentioned above, if you check out the history of “Sunday” for yourself, all you will discover is a legalization of a practice Christians were already carrying out. Even scripture mentions Christians meeting on the first day…not in a sabbath-type observance. There is an excellent book by DW Canright that can be read online about the history of “the Lord’s day”. Find the URL at: http://www.truthorfables.com/The_Lord’s_Canright.htm
36. Jeremy
February 6, 2006
12:31 PM
When you teach people that we are to keep the Ten Commandments (rather than the New Covenant), then you are setting them up to be led into cults such as Seventh-day Adventism, which teaches a false gospel, has a false prophet, teaches that Satan bears our sins as the scapegoat of Lev. 16 and other heretical doctrines, and yet claims to be a Christian church! When the Adventist comes along and says, “If you believe in keeping the Ten Commandments, why don’t you keep them as written by God’s own finger on the stones?” the person who has been taught the 10 C’s has no answer for the Adventist. The Adventist will then tell him that he should be keeping the seventh day (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) holy just as the 4th commandment explicitly states!
This is the main way that they get converts into their cult—by convincing them that they should be keeping the seventh day of the week holy, as the Ten Commandments say.
And sadly, Christians who teach the 10 Cs are setting people up for this deception!
That is one reason why it is such an important issue to understand the New Covenant!!!
Jeremy
37. Ken
February 6, 2006
12:37 PM
Thanks to Angela and Melissa for addressing the issue of physical rest. Angela is right to point out that we need to see the need for rest and Melissa is right to point out that we do not do it because it is in the Decalogue.
Sadly, no debate about Sabbath (this one is evidence of it) hardly ever addresses that one of the reasons behind the fourth commandment was the mercy of God in giving us physical rest. I agree with New Covenant theology on the issue of the Law but new covenanters never speak of the need for physical rest. People get so caught up in what day of the week Sabbath is or should be and how much can be done on it and the fact that Jesus is our Sabbath, that the matter of physical rest is completely ignored. Someone should do a study of Jesus’ exhortation to “come apart and rest awhile” so we don’t just come apart. Christians, especially those in pastoral ministry, are in danger of burning themselves out by never resting and teaching their congregations to live in the same manner. We have conformed ourselves to the world in this regard - we brag about our hectic schedules and act and talk like God cannot get His work done if we take a break. It kills us and dishonours Him. It also robs us of the ability and time to meditate, reflect, pray, think, play, spend time with our spouses and children and do the immense amount of work that there is to do, very well. Let us not develp a theology of Sabbath that damages our ability to recharge our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual batteries. Jesus is our rest but we are too busy to rejoice in it.
By the way - I pastor an inner city church where the demands of the job have taken a serious toll on me in the last few years and I am only now coming to realize that I have ignored an important part of my spiritual maturation.
Thanks Angela.
38. Colleen
February 6, 2006
12:59 PM
The bottom line in this discussion is the New Covenant. Covenant theology as typically taught in the Reformed tradition still clings to the idea that there is one overriding covenant between God and humanity, and the Mosaic covenant was just one representation of that covenant.
Romans and Galatians, however, painstakingly explain that the covenant God made with Abraham still stands, while the Mosaic covenant was temporary and intended to bring an awareness of sin back into humanity.
God’s covenant with Abraham was unconditional. He Himself ratified the covenant by moving among the sacrificial animals in the form of a smoking pot and flaming furnace (Father and Son) while Abraham slept. None of his faulty promises contributed to God’s covenant with him.
The Mosaic covenant was conditional. The entire Sinai covenant was made between God and Israel with Israel’s faulty promises constituing one half of the agreement: “All that you have said, we will do.” Their promises had no hope of fulfillment. They were faulty. This, in fact, was the point of the New Covenant. There’s NOTHING a human can do or intend or promise that in any way will be righteous or perfect or strong enough to keep the covenant with God. It was doomed to failure—and that was what God intended. The Mosaic covenant was designed to INCREASE sin, not to decrease it (Romans 7:8-12), and to drive Israel to trust His sovereign promises to save them by His singular power.
The New Covenant was put into effect in the fullness of time when Jesus died, rose, and ascended to sit at the Father’s right hand. Prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34, the New Covenant supereded and replaced the Mosaic Covenant. Jesus and the Father again kept God’s eternal covenant with mankind. By dying and rising from death, Jesus fulfilled humanity’s obligations under the law—including death for disobedience and perfect righteousness for eternal life—and with promises which are better than ours, he and the Father keep the covenant. We who accept Jesus’ sacrifice are in Christ, and in Him His fulfillment of the law and His righteousness completely cover us.
Hebrews 8:7: “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.” Again in Hebrews 8:13: “By calling this covenant ‘new,’ he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.” (Remember, Hebrews was written to Jewish believers before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.)
Hebrews 7 goes into great detail to explain how Jesus’ priestly ministry is completely different from the Levitical priesthood. He was appointed not by descent but by an oath of God. “Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarnatee of a better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22).
Jesus was not from the proper tribe for priests; he was from Judah, not Levi. This fact completely shattered the Mosaic law. Hebrews 7:12: “For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.”
The New Covenant fulfills God’s unilateral promise to Abraham. It also replaces the Sinai covenant completely by giving us Jesus—his incarnation, death, resurrection, and glorification—as our rule of faith and practice. The rest symbolized by the fourth commandment is now reality in Jesus.
The fourth commandment was never about bodies needing rest. It was always about trusting God. God said in essence to Israel, “The pagans around you work ceaselessly to please their gods and to merit prosperity. I will bless you and propser you far beyond your neighbors if you trust Me. You will remember that I am the One who provides all you have by sitting in your tents one day in seven. It doesn’t matter whether it’s lambing season or lentil harvest, you will sit in your tents. It doesn’t matter whether or not a thunderstorm threatens your wheat crop, you will sit in your tents. And I will prosper you beyond all accounting—and no one, not the Canaanites around you nor you yourselves will be able to credit YOU with your success. You and they will know your success if from Me, the Lord Your God.”
That trust for everything symbolized God’s complete provision for us in the person of Jesus. When He came, that symbolic day of rest was replaced with the Real Thing—Jesus Himself!
I have nothing but deep respect for the reformers and for their resurrection, so to speak of the the true gospel. I also believe, however, that they did not quite uncover the radical completion of the New Covenant. While many of them really came close, in reality the function of the decalogue somewhat escaped them. I believe that historically people have been afraid to say the decalogue no longer applies because it sounds too scary. If the decalogue is not replaced by Jesus, however, then the fourth commandment MUST be observed, and not by transference to Sunday. The Bible never changed Sabbath to Sunday. If the decalogue is still a standard of behavior for us, Christians should be observing the seventh day as a holy day the way the OT taught Israel to observe it.
In Jesus, however, morality becomes a way of life—and resting in Christ becomes much more all-consuming and impacting of every moment of living than the seventh-day Sabbath ever was. Jesus is greater than—the Creator of—the Sabbath. It’s always been only about Him. Now we have Him and no longer need to honor the shadow of promise.
In reality, however, the Holy Spirit holds us to a much more exacting standard than does the law. We can trust Him to keep and to to renew us.
The law still functions as the “proof”, along with the prophets, of who Jesus is. Without the law, we would have no good way to identify Jesus as the true Messiah. He is the only One who has actually fulfilled every shadow of the Mosaic law—including the Sabbath.
Praise Jesus!
Colleen
39. Angela
February 6, 2006
1:07 PM
Right on Ken! Rest is so important. I really don’t think the issue should be if the Bible mandate rest. Of course we don’t have to rest in a certain way or on a specific day, but I don’t see why it would have to be that now since rest isn’t a command that we shouldn’t rest anymore. In Matthew 11:28, it says, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” I don’t know if I am interpreting this out of context, but I think something can be said for the fact that it says come. In order to come to Christ and receive rest from Him, we have to stop what we are doing. And, often, in order to hear what God is saying to us, we have to stop and rest. I just think it’s a bit odd that we would argue whether or not it is a mandate to rest anymore.
I have learned personally just in my first semester in Seminary how important it is to rest. When I don’t take time (more than an hour or two) to rest, I am less in tune with God, I try to do everything on my own power, and I am so stressed that I have a harder time serving His people. Resting helps to put everything back into perspective. And I do think it is true that we become prideful about how much we have in our schedules. And we can’t do it all. God is the only one that completely finishes His to do list. We’re finite, he’s infinite. He rested, Jesus rested, and we should rest too.
40. Ken
February 6, 2006
1:10 PM
Those who trust God can rest their bodies. Let the pagans work themselves to death for whatever spiritual benefits they think it gives them. We do not need to. Since we rest spiritually we rest otherwise as well. If we do not see Jesus as our Sabbath rest we will perform to earn His favour.
Complete rest spiritually enables physical rest periodically. A denial of our spiritual rest in Christ produces the kind of performance theology that marks much of N.A. Christianity.
41. Colleen
February 6, 2006
1:14 PM
Ken, I just saw your comment above. I agree with you about the need for physical rest. Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 to come to Him, and He would give us rest. Taking time to sit with Him and to set aside bysness to rest in His presence is definitely part of a Christ-followers life. Jesus Himself often went away alone to pray.
Yet a Christ-followers rest is not prescribed. Just as we learn to trust God to give us the work He created in advance for us to do (Ephesians 2:10) instead of pursuing things we think would be good ideas, we learn also to take the time to sit at His feet and to let the worries and demands of life go for a time.
I have no problem with people spending one in seven in a completely different way. It’s just that human physical needs were not the point, I believe, of the Sabbath command. The point is learning to rest in Jesus. I have found, to my complete amazement, that although I am busier than I have ever been and have more demands on my time and my emotions than ever before, God is holding me in internal peace in ways I never used to experience when I “took” one in seven. He is lessening the inner anxiety that used to be a constant background “noise” in my life. And yes, He does provide ways and times for physical and mental “rest”. It just doesn’t look like what I used to think Sabbath rest looked like!
By all means, we must rest physically. Sabbath, however, is about a rest that goes deeper and is more empowering than physical rest. I can’t explain it in mere words; I just know I have a most amazing experience of Jesus becoming my rest that renews me emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and physically in ways taking a day off never did.
The day is good, but true Sabbath rest transforms the most grueling days—even “sabbaths”!
Colleen
42. Mitch
February 6, 2006
1:20 PM
I worked for a group of people who would look me right in the eye and tell me the biggest, bold-faced lies imaginable. They used foul language and profanity as a rite of passage. They were jealous of other people’s achievements and wished ill-will against the achievers. They were thieves. There was no consideration for any of the Ten Commandments to be found, let alone the 4th.
People today are not just throwing away the 4th Commandment, they’re throwing them all away. I think that observing the Sabbath (and acknowledging the associated days of Creation mentioned in the 4th commandment) is not as detrimental as some think.
The Sabbath commandment is linked to Creation. God rests after Creation. And that’s part of the problem for many Christians.
Many Christians really, deep down, don’t believe in Creation. They believe in Evolution, which is, in scientific terms, the result of complete and total random chance, with no governing agency involved in any way whatsoever.
Parents want their children to do well on the SAT and ACT college entrance exams, and so, understanding evolutionary science becomes an imperative. Parents reserve weekend lip-service to faith and values, as long as it doesn’t get in the way.
Some parents then try to marry the two ideas into Creationist-Evolution, which is a contradiction of terms. As soon as you involve a governing agency of any kind, overseeing Evolution, it’s no longer Evolution.
These Christians then trot out the absurd mantra, “Creation is based on faith, and Evolution is based on Science.”
Marrying Creation to Evolution is like trying to take a square and a circle and create a geometric “Squircle.” In geometry, squares and circles are mutually exclusive. There is no such thing as the Squircle and there is no such thing as Create-volution.
So, we end up teaching children that they evolved from monkeys, and then we’re surprised when they act like monkeys.
We tell the children that they evolved randomly from something that crawled out of a swamp, but when they die, they go to heaven. We end up with a Jesus dying for people no Higher Power ever created. Christians end up all dressed up on Saturday or Sunday morning with no place to go.
So, in conclusion, the Ten Commandments are an “all or nothing” proposition. The Ten Commandments are not something on the menu that says, “With nine you get eggroll.”
43. Kyle
February 6, 2006
1:57 PM
I appreciate this post, Tim, as a college student who struggles to keep the Sabbath. The problem is not so much that it’s hard for me to rest on Sunday, but that it’s difficult for me to actually keep up with my work the other six days of the week!
I think this thread reveals a lot of the problems surrounding the evangelical church’s understanding of the place of the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments in the life of Christians today. Antinomianism is on the upswing, and sometimes we act as though the Reformers were backwards buffoons for maintaining the importance of the Ten Commandments in holy living, as I think the following illustrates:
The former SDA apologist Robert Brinsmead said it well. “Those that hold to the idea that a 24 hour period of time makes any difference on a round world are about as outmoded as the flat earth society.”
Apparently, three days made a huge difference on our round world, for on the third day He rose again! His resurrection, by the way, is why we celebrate the Sabbath on the first day of the week rather than on the last. The church gathered on Sundays to break bread (e.g., Acts 20:7), celebrating the Lord’s resurrection and the inauguration of the on-going redemption of creation—which ties into the creation aspect of the Sabbath ordinance.
The Sabbath is a foretaste of the glory we presently await, a day when we gather together with the people of God to glorify our God and Savior, and to savor the sweet fellowship of our brethren and Christ which shall be eternally multiplied at the end of the age and the consummation of history.
Why should we steal this “Day of Rest and Gladness” from ourselves and our heavenly family for more sweat and toil?
44. James
February 6, 2006
1:59 PM
What of “I was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day?” Had John not boned up on his New Testament?
45. Dallas Pymm
February 6, 2006
2:16 PM
Wow. Some great stuff going on here. I am very impressed by a lot of these posts. This is a subject that I have thought a lot about and need to study more. I thought Colleen did a great job in presenting her views.
I do have one observation. Revelation 1:9-11
9I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet 11saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
Clearly John recognizes a day that he calls the Lord’s. I think this implies that he must have had a day he observed as God’s. Although it says nothing about which day it was, it may be that he had one day that he gave completely to God. It could also mean that all days are for the Lord, and he simply said this out of habbit. I do not believe he did this in his other letters though. I think he simply had a day where he devoted most of his time in study, prayer, and perhaps edifying fellowship. I think this would benefit all of us, and is something I would very much like to persue.
Any thoughts?
46. Dallas Pymm
February 6, 2006
2:24 PM
Sorry James. I did not see your post. Consider mine a response to yours. :o)
47. Alando
February 6, 2006
2:26 PM
Mitch,
The rest in the Creation account is descriptive not prescriptive. It ONLY speaks of God resting, giving a desription of what he did.
Also, there is no mentioning of a Sabbath for man in Genesis, the Abrahamic covenant anywhere prior to the Decalogue, so the Sabbath command does not tie back to creation. You’re reading that into the text(Eisegesis) Otherwise prove me wrong…
If you follow your logic and say it is prescriptive of what Christians must do, then we should do everything that God did in the first six days, correct? I mean how are you to say since he ‘s giving us a prescription or pattern to follow, you just choose to ONLY follow his rest pattern. See the point, it is a desription of what God did in creating this universe and us.
The idea that Christians are evolutionist and don’t believe in a literal six day creation, because they don’t keep the Sabbath is seriously flawed. Sorry!
This is the problem when it comes down to issues like this, one picks and chooses based on what suits them to guide their faith and practice & one allows Scripture to guide his faith and practice.
There has been many explicit references to Scriptures regarding the topic concerning Sabbath: Matt. 11, Col. 2, Gal. 1,3,5, Rom. 14, Heb. 4, Acts 15 and I have not seen one Sabbath Day advocate defend their position against the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles. They have all been pragmatic reasons. I’m guessing now that if it works and has benefit(rested bodies)it doesn’t matter what Scripture teaches. I agree with everyone that we need to rest our bodies, however, I must ask what are we so busy doing daily that we can’t rest. Somehow I’m missing it, let’s see on a daily basis: Work, dinner, family or personal devotions, Scripture reading, bed. What else is there?
Lastly Mitch, I would say if you seriously want to keep the 4th commandment, keep it in the way that God prescribed it to be kept, thus don’t relax it to fit your likings of what you want to do on that day?
Do you accept the challenge?
48. Passer-by
February 6, 2006
3:10 PM
Alando:
Since I’m not a regular here, and probably won’t come by often (hence, “Passer-by”), I am going to take the opportunity for a gentle confrontation (I hesitate to call it a rebuke).
I appreciate your comments and insights, but your attitude tends toward being condescending and sarcastic. I thought that in your earlier post (#34), and I sense it again in your last post (#47). This is a friendly discussion among brothers and sisters, and you don’t need to add the questions and challenges that seem a bit “sneering.” Just be yourself.
I offer that comment in love. It comes from one who has been similarly rebuked more than once, and who is trying to learn how to be authentic as a blogger (an old dog of 55 learning some new tricks).
49. Jeremy
February 6, 2006
3:46 PM
John did mention the Lord’s Day in Rev. 1. All it means, though, is that the Early Church called Sunday the Lord’s Day, meaning the day the Lord was Resurrected.
They also gathered together to celebrate the Lord’s Resurrection on that day. However, that is only what they chose to do voluntarily. There is no command in Scripture saying that we HAVE to observe Sunday in any way, especially as a sacred Rest day, a Holy day, or a Sabbath day!
In fact, Romans 14 tells us that it is perfectly fine to regard every day alike!
They chose to celebrate the Lord’s Resurrection on the day of His resurrection—nothing more, nothing less. It was a tradition that most Christians practiced —they gathered together to worship on that day.
Becuase Jesus was raised on Sunday, it was known as the Lord’s Day, and thus John called it that.
Jeremy
50. Alando
February 6, 2006
4:23 PM
Thanks Passer-by. I not only appreciate but receive your rebuke. I apologize for any offense caused to anyone viewing this thread. Just thought it was out of bounds to be considered an evolutionist because I don’t hold the Sabbath observance view, nonetheless, it doesn’t warrant me being sarcastic nor condescending. Like yourself I recently came across the thread and am new to the blogosphere debating. I’ll refrain from posting, and get before the Lord on this area of my heart. Please do not allow my actions to deter you from benefitting from brothers and sisters in Christ. I am not a regular poster here.
51. Dallas Pymm
February 6, 2006
4:53 PM
Jeremy. Thank you for the response. I agree that it is likely that it could have been Sunday. You seem pretty confident that it was in fact Sunday. The comments in my Bible also say this. I am not disagreeing with you, but could you tell me why you and many others feel this way? I am not a SDA, I just wanted to know why people believe John was referring to Sunday in this verse.
Anyone else who know is more the welcome to answer also. Thanks.
52. Stephen Wylie-Young
February 6, 2006
5:25 PM
The place of the 10 Commandments in the life of the Christian today cannot be considered without reference to the Scripture’s definition of sin. Christians understand sin as any transgression of God’s law. God gave us His law, specifically His, so-called, moral law to help us understand Him, His nature. When we behave contrary to God’s nature, we sin. God’s nature is unchanging and so moral transgression will always be the same. Christ bore the punishment for sin on the cross, that is, all transgressions by sinful man as a result of their rejection of God - the sin of a new covenant believer is the same as the sin of an old covenant believer.
The clear message of the NT (in fact the whole Bible) is that we cannot earn God’s acceptance - the law (a mirror or reflection of God’s perfect nature) was given to us to reveal our sin, to drive us to Christ. Where there is no law there is no sin.
Those who argue that God’s moral law (as written by the finger of God on stone and written on our hearts) is no longer binding must explain how God’s nature has changed.
They must also explain what law the NT writers referred to. For example…
James 2:10 “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all”. Here James must be referring to the moral law, the Ten Commandments, because he mentions two of them in the context.
Rom 2:14-15 “For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them…”. The law written on the hearts of the Gentiles was the moral law (see the sins referred to in the context), the Ten Commandments. Would not Paul’s readers have understood this?
Phil - In Gal 4 and other NT passages, the Scripture is not asking the hearers to abandon the “Sabbath”. He is rebuking those who, throughout the NT, wanted to add to the requirements of the law for Gentile converts (e.g. circumcision) and had even added requirements for Jews e.g. additional Sabbaths (beyond the once/wk observation) and various festivals/feast days. Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount had to correct the Jewish leaders on similar misinterpretations – His teaching on the Law was clear. Matt 22:37-40 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law? Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments”. Was not Jesus summarizing the Ten Commandments? The first four commandments define our duty to our Creator and the final six our duty to our neighbor.
‘Let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week.’ Ignatius
53. Linda
February 6, 2006
7:02 PM
I keep the Sabbath and I find it truly a delight. I look forward to it every week. It is not legalism. Legalism is following the commands of men. The ten commandments, including the Sabbath are forever. Isaiah 66 says we will keep the Sabbath in heaven. The Lord does not change. The sabbaths which were done away with such as mentioned in Col 2 are referring to the cerimonial sabbaths. These were no longer needed after the cross. You can try to rationalize it away as much as you like but they are still in effect. The new covenant God says He will put His laws in our hearts (if you let Him!) For more information check out http://www.Sabbathtruth.com. Have a Happy Sabbath! I do.
Linda
54. Dave Curell
February 6, 2006
7:10 PM
Dear Mr. Challies,
B. B. Warfield called federal (covenant) theology the, “architectonic principle” of the Westminster Confession of Faith.
Johannes Cocceius is understood by some to be the ‘father of federal theology’ and perhaps by all to be it’s primary contributor yet he did not believe that the Mosaic Sabbath was binding on the Christian. For this he was called antinomian.
Cocceius, Calvin, Luther, Bunyan are all big names. Yet it appears likely that they none of them would subscribe to the WCF on the issue of the Sabbath. This gives me cause to pause.
You say you can’t get past the ‘why only nine of ten’ question. Perhaps you are asking the wrong question. Perhaps your true obstacle is not the scripture but the system through which you view it. Perhaps you are cutting the non-fitting corners of the sheet of truth to fit your systematic bed.
The WCF could be wrong. It’s architectonic principle might contain bugs. Your difficult question may only exist because your system led you to ask it. If the system contains incorrect presuppositions it will lead you to ask the wrong questions.
History, or my limited knowledge of it, seems to say that the WCF codified Sabbath observance for the Christian more than any document prior, including the Bible. Perhaps the divines were correct, I believe they were not. All I can say for sure is that it fits well into their system.
Warmly,
Dave Curell
55. Colleen
February 6, 2006
7:17 PM
Stephen, the problem with equating the Decalogue with God’s eternal “moral law” is two-fold. First, Scripture nowhere supports this definition. To Jews, both then and now, the “law” is the entire Torah. The 10 Commandments are not separated out as God’s eternal moral law. In fact, they are called the words of the covenant (meaning the Sinai covenant) in the Torah, and Galatians 3 clearly shows that the law was given 430 years after Abraham until the Seed (Jesus) would come.
In addition, in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus clearly expanded the law. He not only expanded many of the 10 Commandments, He expanded other laws not listed in the 10. He made it very clear that true morality goes to the hearts and motives of people and is never measured by behavior. Righteousness is not evaluated by our good deeds.
Second, the law God wrote on the tables of stone with His finger is not The Eternal Law. God didn’t write those commandments until millennia after Creation. Further, those tables of stone are nowhere to be found today. (Imagine what an icon they would have been had God allowed them to be accessible!) As Paul explains in Galatians, those tables of stone, the heart of God’s covenant with Israel—the conditional Mosaic Covenant—were temporary. They represented the covenant that God established with israel and that lasted until the Seed came.
The Decalogue was only an elementary outline of general good behavior. As I mentioned earlier, the Sermon on the Mount revealed far more of God’s Law than the Decalogue did. In fact, the entire New Testament reveals a far more comprehnsive morality than the law ever did. The NT demands that we live by the Spirit—that we give up our control and our striving and submit to God’s personal and detailed discipline and direction.
It is such a straw-man argument to assume that people are straying into antinomianism by saying the 10 Commandments are not our rule of practice in the New Testament. A true Christ-follower takes morality and living by the Spirit very seriously.
If the Decalogue were God’s Eternal Law, then it would be on a level with Almighty God—eternal and undending. Quite on the contrary, God created the Decalogue hundreds of years after He created the world. He summarized civil behavior to bring people into an awareness of their own sinfulness.
Romans 5 shows that even though people from the time of Adam to the time of Moses did not sin by breaking a command—only Adam was guilty of that sin until the law was given—still they were sinful because they were In Adam. But God did not hold them guilty of sins for which they were unaware. They were NOT innocent; they were doomed and sinners by nature. Still, they were not guilty of breaking the law.
God’s Eternal Law is Himself. He is, in Himself, eternal Justice, Mercy, Grace, Wrath, Love, Life, LIght..all His attributes are eternally, intrinsically Him. The Decalogue was an elementary and simplified primer given to truly fallen mankind to begin to teach them that they were guilty of intrinsic sin. God gave them the law so they would become aware of their sin and of their inability to do His will.
Now we have Jesus Himself—eternal God, the Living, Eternal Law—acting as our Law. Because we are awakened in Him and reconnected to Him through Jesus’ blood, we have access to the Father by one Spirit. We don’t need a temporary, abridged version of the eternal law of God to convict us of sin or to show us how to live.
True, the decalogue is still useful for pointing out sin to people who haven’t met Jesus. But once we are in Him, we are to live by the Spirit (Romans 8).
The only reason I can imagine that people desire to “hang onto the declague” is the fourth commandment. The NT is far more detailed than the 10 Commandments in terms of God’s expectations for us when we are in Him. The fourth commandment is the sticky point.
Unless we understand the asonishing revelation of Hebrews, Galatians, Colossians, Romans, Ephesians, etc., we don’t really see that Jesus actually fulfilled all the OT law. He fulfilled the promise of the Sabath shadow. In Him we find our eternal rest.
None of this negates a “day off” to rest, meditate, etc. But Romans 14 clarifies that such a day is NOT mandated. Jesus Himself transforms the way we live. We are completely new creatures in Christ. We are spiritually alive instead of spiritually dead.
We’re not throwing out morality. We are, rather, embracing the Eternal, Living Law of Morality instead of the stone condensed version that was intended for the specific purpose of educating Israel of their sinfulness. It was never intended to bring them into righteosness. It was always intended to hold them in check and to cause them to be driven to God and His promises. The law was always impossible to keep.
Now the Living Law keeps us, and He is faithful to complete what He begins in us (Phil 1:6). We respond to His sovereign grace by offering our bodies as living sacrifices to Him for His purposes (Romans 12:1).
Colleen
56. Colleen
February 6, 2006
7:23 PM
Linda, one comment re: Isaiah 66: it clearly says that people will gather to worhsip not only from Sabbath to Sabbath but from New Moon to New Moon. These prophecies must be read in light of Jesus’ fulfillment of the ceremonial days of Israel.
Revelation 21 and 22 both state unequivocally that there is no need of the sun or the moon in the New Jesrusalem because the Lamb Himself will be their light. There “is no night there”. Without night, there are no days.
Furthermore, eternity is not undending time. Eternity has no time. There will be no passing days in heaven. There will be no eternal observation of the seventh-day Sabbath or of New Moons.
Those celebrations were always shadows of Christ Himself. When we understand that Jesus Is the reality of those shadows, Isaiah 66 makes sense. We will all gather to worship and praise Jesus Himself endlessly for eternity. In Him those powerful shadows have substance. We will not gather to worship Him for one-seventh of eternity. Our entire eternal future will consist of our worship and honoring of Him.
Colleen
57. Ellen
February 6, 2006
7:30 PM
The sabbaths which were done away with such as mentioned in Col 2 are referring to the cerimonial sabbaths.
Chapter and verse on that, please?
Isaiah 66 says we will keep the Sabbath in heaven.
Since Christ is our Sabbath Rest, it would stand to reason that we will, indeed, keep
and Isaiah 66:23 says (the only time Sabbath is mentioned in Isaiah 66, ESV): From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
Any rational reading knows that means “from Saturday to Saturday.” If I told you that I was going to fast from Sunday to Sunday, you would understand that I meant every day in between. How can you read that we are going to keep the Sabbath only?
The Fourth Commandment says, “but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Jehovah thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates”
I’m assuming that you stay home on your Sabbath? You don’t cook, do dishes, go to church, take a walk with your family? And nobody does work for you. ANYBODY.
The Sabbath wasn’t set up for to be a convenient time to go to church. It was a day of rest. Actually, yesterday - I Sabbathed. I skipped church. I slept in. I sat in once place and read on line, read the Bible, plaed a few games. It was good and I felt great.
Is that what you mean? Because I don’t intend to do that every week.
58. Linda
February 6, 2006
7:42 PM
As far as The Lords Day is concerned lets let the Bible interpret itself. Matther 12:8 says the Son of Man is the Lord also of the Sabbath. If the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath, the Sabbath must the the Lords’s day.
59. Linda
February 6, 2006
8:11 PM
This passage, Col2:16, 17 is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible. One principle of Bible interpretation is that you do not allow what may be somewhat unclear to keep you from doing what you understand. The Bible is plain on the Sabbath.. It was given at creation (Gen2:1-3). Jesus observed it (Luke 4:16). Paul observed it (Acts 13:42-44), and it will be observed in heaven (Isaiah 66:22,23). The Bible mentions two kinds of sabbaths. The seventh- day Sabbath and the yearly sabbaths. The seventh-day Sabbath, instituted at creation and part of the Ten Commandment law, is a weekly reminder of the loving, all-powerful Creator. The yearly Sabath relates specifically to the history of Israel. Col 2: 16,17 specifically states “Let no one judge you regarding sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come.” The seventh-day Sabbath is a menorial of creation not a shadow of something to come. Heb 10:1 connects the law of shadows to the animal sacrifice. Ezekial 45:17 used the exact same expression in the exact same order as Col 2:16,17 and connects it all with the ceremonial systems of feasts and sacrifices (meat offerings, drink offerings, feasts, new moons, and sabbaths to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Lev 23:3 discusses the Seventh-day Sabbath. Lev 23:5-32 discusses the ceremonial sabaths (passover, verse 5; unleavened bread, verse 6; wave sheaf, verse 10; first fruits, verse 17; trumpets, verse 24; Day of atonement, verses 27-32: tabernacles, verses 34-36) Both the feast of the trumpets and the Day of Atonement there are specifically called sabbaths. These annual sabbaths were intimately connected to events foreshadowing Christ’s death and His Second Coming. They were designed by God to be shadows or pointers to the coming Messiah. Lev 23:37 uses the language of Col 2:16,17 to describe these ceremonial sabbaths. Lev 23:38 distinguishes the ceremonial sabbaths from the seventh-day Sabbaths by using the expression “Beside the sabbaths of the Lord.” Since Christ has come the shadowy sabbaths of the ceremonial law have found their fulfillment in Him. The seventh-day Sabbath continues to lead us back to the Creator God who made us. God’s people will keep it as a distinguishing sign of their relationship to Him (Rev 14:12, Exekial 20:12,20)
Linda
60. Brian...formerly voiceofthesheep
February 6, 2006
8:21 PM
“Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.” - Romans 14:1-6
Paul appears to speak right on point conerning this issue. Granted, he is also talking about those who are weak in the faith concerning their being convicted not to eat certain foods. His main point in this passage, as you will see if you read on through chapter 14, is we are not to judge another brother or sister who has a conviction concerning food or observance of certain days…and the brother or sister who has that conviction is not to try to impose it on those brothers and sisters who don’t share in that conviction.
The implication also is that those who are convicted not to eat certain things and who regard certain days above others (new moons, festivals, sabbaths) are the ones who are weaker in the faith. Any thoughts?
61. Ellen
February 6, 2006
8:29 PM
Brain, that would be the plain reading, wouldn’t it?
Linda, you misquoted Isaiah again.
62. Linda
February 6, 2006
10:07 PM
Ellen wrote:
Since Christ is our Sabbath Rest, it would stand to reason that we will, indeed, keep
and Isaiah 66:23 says (the only time Sabbath is mentioned in Isaiah 66, ESV): From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
Any rational reading knows that means “from Saturday to Saturday.” If I told you that I was going to fast from Sunday to Sunday, you would understand that I meant every day in between. How can you read that we are going to keep the Sabbath only?
Ellen, Conversely, if I told you I was going to celebrate Christmas to Christmas would you think I was going to celebrate Christmas 365 days a year?
Linda
63. Jeremy
February 6, 2006
10:48 PM
Dallas Pymm, the early church fathers around the time of John used the term “the Lord’s Day” to refer to Resurrection Day, or Sunday. Since it is known that it was a specific term coined by and used by the Early Church to refer to Sunday, that seems to be the most common interpretation of Rev. 1.
By the way, everyone, the link to sabbathtruth.com posted by Linda, is actually an SDA web site, although they try to hide that fact. It is operated by Amazing Facts, a very cultic ministry run by Doug Batchelor, a Seventh-day Adventist. BEWARE!
They refuse to say they are SDA at that website, and even have a link saying “Where can I find a Sabbath keeping church in North America?” which takes you to an ADVENTIST church locator. Very deceptive. And they try to sell you a book by the SDA false prophetess Ellen G. White. Once again, they call her E.G. White hoping you don’t figure out that it’s Ellen White.
Jeremy
64. Linda
February 7, 2006
12:01 AM
Jeremy says:
“Dallas Pymm, the early church fathers around the time of John used the term “the Lord’s Day” to refer to Resurrection Day, or Sunday. Since it is known that it was a specific term coined by and used by the Early Church to refer to Sunday, that seems to be the most common interpretation of Rev. 1.”
If that were true John would not have used the phrase “first day of the week” in his Gospel which was written approximately the same time. The ony day that John knew as the “Lords day” by the end of the first century when he wrote the book of Revelation is the Sabbath. And we know that this only day which Christ proclaims Himself to “Lord.” Matt 12:8 “For the Son of man is lord of the Sabbath”
Jeremy says:
“They refuse to say they are SDA at that website, and even have a link saying “Where can I find a Sabbath keeping church in North America?” which takes you to an ADVENTIST church locator. Very deceptive. “
If they take you to an Adventist locator that doesn’t sound like they are trying to hide anything. Besides, the website is about the SABBATH not the SDA church. Jeremy, I hate to say it but you sound a little paranoid. Let people make up their own mind.
65. Savon
February 7, 2006
12:01 AM
Great topic!
If one wants to keep the Sabbath I see no problem with it, just don’t judge others who are not convinced that they should keep it. One thing that isn’t being addressed is the lowering of the Sabbath command. I’ve heard many say that they have kept or still keeping the Sabbath. God gave specific’s of what was not to be done on the Sabbath.
Here’s a list:
Exodus 16:29, And the Lord said to Moses: “Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. Stay home.
Exodus 16:23, “This is what the Lord meant: tomorrow is the Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning. No cooking.
Exodus 20:10 “On the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God; and in it you shall do not any work; you or your son or your daughter, or your male servant, your female servant, your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.” No work.
Exodus 35:1-3 “These things are the things the Lord has commanded you to do: You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”
It also says in Jeremiah 17:27: “If you do not listen to Me to keep the Sabbath day holy by not carrying a load and coming in through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day.” No carrying a load anywhere.
Nehemiah 10 says: “As for the people of the land who bring wares or any grain on the Sabbath day to sell, we will not buy from them on the Sabbath or a holy day.” No buying . No selling.
Isaiah 58:13-14 “If because of the Sabbath you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord honorable, and shall honor it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word.” Your agenda is out.
So you can’t go anywhere; you can’t cook anything; you can’t do any work; you can’t build a fire; you can’t carry a load; you can’t buy anything; you can’t sell anything; you can’t eat out, because you can’t go anywhere; you can’t even have anything delivered because you can’t buy it, unless it’s free; you can’t do anything YOU want; you can’t make any plans. This was serious business folks and to lower it by any means would be offensive to God.
If the Sabbath command is in effect, no one can redefine how it is to be kept, no more than redifining the other 9 to whatever one decides how they should be kept.
Furthermore, according to Leviticus 24:32, the Sabbath was to be from evening until evening, sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
Lastly, if you violated the Sabbath, several scriptures said you were to be put to death. Others said you were to be cut off from Israel.
On the Sabbath they didn’t go to the place of worship.
66. Passer-by
February 7, 2006
12:24 AM
Linda: I’m not nearly as smart as everyone here, but I’m smart enough to sense that something is just not right with your answer to Jeremy. Forgive me if I’m wrong about that, but perhaps it would be helpful if you could let us know your theological allegiance in this discussion, whether a non-alligned Sabbatarian or an SDA apologist. Thanks.
Colleen: Your comments have been very instructive and helpful, and make a great deal of sense to me. Are there any specific books or resources that have influenced your thinking that you could share. Thanks.
67. Stan
February 7, 2006
12:33 AM
Savon,
Those are good points. Those who would impose Sabbatarianism on us whether Sat. or Sunday, just won’t admit that the New Testament in all the epistles is completely silent as to how to instruct the Gentile world how to keep Sabbath under the New Covenant. Since the fourth commandment is the longest and most prominent commandment in the decalogue, and Ezekiel even says the Sabbath was the sign of the covenant, then, why on something the Old Testament continually kept reminding us of with all of those passages listed above, then is it not strange that no command to keep any day of the week is given. The only obvious explanation for this is that the Old Covenant sign is the Sabbath—“Remember the Sabbath day…” whereas the next time God said remember was in the words of our Lord “Do this in Remembrance of Me”
What could be clearer than that? The shadows are all gone. We have our eternal Sabbath rest in Christ.
Linda,
Let me ask you a question. If we will be keeping the Sabbath in the New Earth and as Isaiah 66 says also keeping New Moons, and since Revelation clearly states that there will be no night there, then how can you know when the Sabbath starts if there is never any night. The moon cannot shine in the light of the Son.
Also, the SDA church has historically said that all those who will continue to worship on Sunday are worshipping Satan and the beast. Your church says the keeping of Saturday Sabbath will be the final test to separate the true church from the false church. Your church also calls the Sabbath the Seal of God, when the New Testament is clear that the Holy Spirit is the seal of God.
Stan Ermshar
68. Colleen
February 7, 2006
2:52 AM
Passer-by, “Sabbath in Crisis”, now updated and reprinted as “Sabbath in Christ” by Dale Ratzlaff has been the most helpful book for me besides just plain Bible study.
Having been a Seventh-day Adventist, I had certain (mis)understandings of what Scripture said and meant, so I had to specifically study certain questions that the average Reformed believer probably wouldn’t have. Linda’s Adventist point of view reveals many of the unique Adventist explanations for keeping the seventh day.
Ratzlaff’s book is available online at www.LIfeAssuranceMinistries.org. It is a thorough study of the Old and the New Covenants.
The Bible itself is so clear about the New Covenant when one approaches it with prayer for God to reveal truth without our invisible blinders on.
Colleen
69. Ellen
February 7, 2006
7:26 AM
Ellen, Conversely, if I told you I was going to celebrate Christmas to Christmas would you think I was going to celebrate Christmas 365 days a year?
No. But that (again) you’re misquoting the verse. If you quote it the way the Bible says it, you would be saying:
I’m going to celebrate from Christmas to Christmas. If you used that very specific language, then I’d say yes, you’d be celebrating all year.
The ony day that John knew as the “Lords day” by the end of the first century when he wrote the book of Revelation is the Sabbath.
chapter and verse on that, please? I choose to believe that those who are inspired by God would have the language to say “Sabbath” if that is what they meant.
I asked you before, Linda, how do you keep the Sabbath? The Biblical way or man’s way?
70. Alan Finch
February 7, 2006
9:32 AM
Savon says
‘If one wants to keep the Sabbath I see no problem with it, just don’t judge others who are not convinced that they should keep it’
If the ten commandments is a summary of the moral law then our sabbath breaking along with our stealing is sin - Christ suffered for it, we should repent of it and seek for grace to keep it.
Given that in Genesis 1 & 2 God kept the Sabbath, and that we are then told man was created in God’s image, we ought to have been surprised if God had given only nine commandments at Sinai and not ten. The miraculous events surrounding the giving of the ten words, including the writing of them by the finger of God, marks them out from the rest of the Torah. Christ declares himself ‘Lord of the Sabbath’ (what a title if the Sabbath no longer exists!)
The issue should not be ‘if one wants to keep the Sabbath’ rather ‘how we keep the sabbath’. Here we should be cautious to judge others. As with the other commands there were specific Jewish aspects to them and we need to work through all the scriptures in context to determine what these were. The first step is to love God’s law (Psalm 119) - which includes the sabbath.
71. Jeremy
February 7, 2006
11:30 AM
Linda, I wouldn’t say I’m paranoid. I simply have been a part of Adventism and I know that that website is designed to get people into “The Truth” (SDA church, aka “The Only One True Remnant Church”). They also have a link to a website about the heretical SDA view of death (teaching that we cease to exist when we die—did Jesus cease to exist when He died?), a link to an SDA vegan health program, and they also link to the Amazing Facts ministry, which has as its sole purpose to “evangelize” people into SDAism and teach all of the SDA doctrines, etc. And they also sell SDA resources in their “store,” including a book by their false prophet, and material which teach their non-sense end-time events about the Mark of the Beast being worshipping God on Sunday and the Sabbath being the Seal of God (the Seal is the Holy Spirit—Eph 1, 4:30, etc.), there being a Universal Sunday Law and seventh-day Sabbath-keepers being sentenced to death by the Christians, etc.!!!
If the purpose was really to promote the Sabbath they would link to a resource listing many different Sabbath-keeping churches, not just SDA churches.
They also display an advertisment for an upcoming SDA “revival” meeting.
No, I am not paranoid at all. It is the same old demonic deception the cult was founded on hard at work still.
Jeremy
72. Savon
February 7, 2006
12:12 PM
Alan says,
Given that in Genesis 1 & 2 God kept the Sabbath:
Mark 2:27 - “The Sabbath was made for man”
We are then told man was created in God’s image and since God kept the Sabbath we should to:
Genesis 1:27,28 - God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them; God blessed them; AND GOD SAID TO THEM, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
The writing of them(the decalogue)by the finger of God, marks them out from the rest of the Torah.
Scripture reference???
Christ declares himself ‘Lord of the Sabbath’ (what a title if the Sabbath no longer exists!)
Context is King, Christ was not trying to disprove that the Sabbath existed at that time, rather He was establishing His Deity, He is not subject to the Sabbath, He is Lord OVER it, just as He is GREATER than the temple. The Sabbath law, as all the rest, were put into Christ’s hand, under His Lordship, to be altered, enforced, or dispensed with, as He saw fit. This is why He could heal or allow His disciples to pluck corn, take a walk on the Sabbath. All the things He did were prohibited.
The issue should not be ‘if one wants to keep the Sabbath’ rather ‘how we keep the sabbath’.
I agree 100%, so the question remains, who determines how the Sabbath is kept? God or man?
73. Alan Finch
February 7, 2006
4:12 PM
Savon
Couple of replies to your last post
God rested on the 7th day (Gen2.3), but by nature the moral law is for man’s benefit. There is no conflict between saying God kept it for our example and it is for our blessing.
God distinguishs the moral elements of the law given at sinai by writing them with his finger (Ex 31.18 and Deut 9.10). In addition he spoke the ten commands (Ex 20.1) whereas the rest of the torah was mediated through Moses.
You say that Christ is Lord of the sabbath and so has the right to dispense with it. True if it were not moral, but in addition he never did.
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