The article I wrote yesterday has caused a bit of a ruckus. I intended to answer some of the criticisms this morning, but then I had to try to keep Michaela from crying for two hours, and once I handed her off to Aileen, the phone rang a few times and before I knew it, the morning was getting away from me (it’s mostly Steve Camp’s fault—he and I just have too much to talk about). As you recall, I wrote about whether or not we, as Christians, have an obligation to assume or believe that others are also believers. I suggested that we are under this obligation when a person professes faith and is a member of a “true” church. I was prepared for some criticism, and when Joe Carter mentioned that he would answer this article, I pointed out that I knew there were several holes in my argument which I was sure he would have no trouble finding.
True to his word, Joe took issue with several things, among them my use of the Belgic Confession. “While I consider the Belgic Confession to be a magnificent creed and a beautiful exposition of doctrine, I also believe it to be significantly flawed. In order to understand the requirement for ‘pure administration of the sacraments’ we have to look at Article 34: The Sacrament of Baptism.” The Confession, of course, then advocates infant baptism. Joe concludes “A ‘true church’ is, according to this confession, one that adheres to infant baptism as a ‘pure administration of the sacrament’ of baptism. That means me, John Piper, Al Mohler, and the 16 million members of the SBC are apparently spending our Sundays at a ‘false church.’ (The same could be said for Tim himself since he is a ‘Reformed believer attending a Baptist church.’)”
I should point out that, as a Baptist, I consider the Confession a great document and one that is useful even to me. I look to the confession as a solid summary of the three marks and do not necessarily agree with how the writers of the document further define those three marks. The marks can easily apply to churches other than those which hold to paedo-baptism. I’d suggest that this was something of a red herring, for it seems to have kept Joe from interacting with the marks themselves—marks which I consider a useful guide to a true church.
Mike at “Eternal Perspectives,” who said on another site that I had a bad day yesterday, wrote a lengthy article called The Problem with Whitewash and Turpentine where he expressed his disagreement with me. On the whole I think he understood my argument, though he disagreed with it.
Conversely, John at “Blogotional” seems to have (quite conventiently, really) overlooked my main point. He asked “Who Then Is My Brother? as if my article suggested that only those who profess faith and attend a true church can be believers. Of course my article merely asked who we are under an obligation to assume is a believer, rather than who is a believer. There is a vast difference. He also objected to my criticism of the Roman Catholic Church.
Were I to criticize my article, I would probably point out that very few churches really do practice proper church discipline, and thus there are not a lot of churches left that actually adhere to the three marks I presented. In theory, most churches make some attempt at articulating a policy for church discipline. Sadly, few actually practice it. Many that do practice it, use it more as a tool for ridding themselves of dissenters than a God-given means of separating the wheat from the chaff. This was proven true a few days ago when even the The United Church of Christ, which touts an open-door policy that welcomes everyone and declares that no one will ever be kicked out of the church’s membership, was removed from membership for raising questions about the church’s spending.
So for today I would like to discuss church discipline. I was surprised, when I searched the archives of this site, to see how little I have written about this. However, I found an article which summarized much of what I believe and, having tidied it up, bring it to you today as a basis for what I’d like to say tomorrow (if the phone is a little bit quieter):
Much has been written in our day about healthy churches. Men like Rick Warren and Bill Hybels, known as being at the forefront of the church growth movement, insist that their primary concern is not with making churches bigger but with making them healthier. Mark Dever, in 9 Marks of a Healthy Church includes an appendix that lists the prescriptions offered by many contemporary authors. Though this is merely a small sample of what people have suggested, the list comes to over 10 pages. Clearly there is some controversy regarding how we can discern a healthy church from a corrupt one.
Since the time of the Reformation most Protestants have agreed on the marks of a true church (not to be confused with a healthy church). These are summarized in the Belgic Confession, Article 29, which says “The marks by with the true Church is known are these: If the pure doctrine of the gospel is preaching therein; if she maintains the pure administration of the sacraments as instituted by Christ; if church discipline is exercised in punishing of sin; in short, if all things are managed according to the pure Word of God, all things contrary thereto rejected, and Jesus Christ acknowledged as the only Head of the Church.” While not all confessions included church discipline as one of the marks, where absent this was assumed as being integral to the proper administration of the sacraments, for they are to withheld from those who are engaged in gross sins. Luther, Melanchthon, Calvin and Cramner, for example, all agreed on these marks.
Church discipline is an area that is largely overlooked in the contemporary church, yet is one that is necessary for a church to be a true church and to be a healthy church. Until recent times, discipline was viewed as one of the primary functions of the leadership of a church. Until the mid-1800’s, Southern Baptist churches would excommunicate, on average, two percent of their membership in any given year! Church membership was considered both a privelege and a responsibility, and those who did not meet their obligations were swiftly removed. Churches were serious about sin.
As churches changed in the mid to late 19th century, discipline faded. It seems that an emphasis on holy lives was replaced by an emphasis on solving society’s ills. Greg Wills has written extensively about the changing views on church discipline in Democratic Religion:
In fact, the more churches concerned themselves with social order, the less they exerted church discipline. From about 1850 to 1920, a period of expanding evangelical solicitude for the reformation of society, church discipline declined steadily. From temperance to Sabbatarian reform, evangelicals persuaded their communities to adopt the moral norms of the church for society at large. As Baptists learned to reform the larger society, they forgot how they had once reformed themselves. Church discipline presupposed a stark dichotomy between the norms of society and the kingdom of God. The more evangelicals purified the society, the less they felt the urgency of a discipline that seperated the church from the world.
Church discipline today is generally reserved for only the most terrible sins. I suspect many churches are willing to overlook almost any sin provided it does not cause rifts in the church and call the leadership into question. Disunity is the cardinal sin of the twenty-first century. Matters of morality and godliness are regarded with far more leniency. Sadly this shows that many church leaders are more concerned with how the members of their churches regard them than with how they regard God. This has not always been the case. Even 100 years ago many churches considered almost any consistent transgression of biblical rules grounds for discipline. In 9 Marks of a Healthy Church Mark Dever provides some examples from the rules of his church which were drawn up in 1878. The document outlined many ways in which members could be liable to discipline. They included: any outward violations of the moral law; any course which may…be disreputable to it [the church] as a body; neglecting to contribute financially; being habitually absent from church. In short, the church required believers to act and live like believers and any consistent transgression of this rule would begin the process of discipline as outlined in the Scripture.
Clearly this model, which seems to have been quite common in that day, is unusual for our time. But consider the impact on our churches if we placed under discipline those who miss church on an ongoing basis, those who live in sin and those who refuse to give financially to the church - in short, those who show clear evidence of ongoing, unrepentant sin in their lives. Evidently attendance would fall dramatically. But would this be a bad thing? It seems to me that a lean church composed of committed believers is far superior to a bloated body composed of a mix of believers and unbelievers. Almost sixty years ago H.E. Dana observed that:
The abuse of discipline is reprehensible and destructive, but not more than the abandonment of discipline. Two generations ago the churches were applying discipline in a vindictive and arbitrary fashion that justly brought it into disrepute; today the pendulum has swung to the other extreme - discipline is almost wholly neglected. It is time for a new generation of pastors to restore this important function of the church to its rightful significance and place in church life.
I wonder how the church would change if discipline were taken seriously. I wonder how many goats would immediately flee the assembly of the sheep. But wouldn’t the church be better for it? Mark Dever observes that “Jesus intended our lives to back up our words. If our lives don’t back up our words, the evangelistic task is injured, as we have seen so terribly this last century in America. Undisciplined churches have actually made it harder for people to hear the Good News of new life in Jesus Christ.” I fully agree. Churches in which the members show little evidence of the Spirit’s work of sanctification appeal to the world and harm the task of evangelism. Laxity in this area brings harm and shame to the church of Jesus Christ.
The great irony may be that those churches which are most concerned with evangelism are those which do the most to harm their own witness with their bloated, often largely-unregenerate membership.




Comments (24) »
1. John Hollandsworth
May 18, 2006
11:17 AM
When I read this post, the first thing that popped into my mind (always a dangerous thing!) was not church discipline, but child discipline. If I’m doing it right, I both teach my children about wrong and give them consequences for wrong behavior, but that should only be one component (and hopefully a minority component) of a proactive, comprehensive training, personal, individualized to each of them, toward godliness, in which they, seeing my genuine love and concern for the welfare of their souls, respond to, both the positive and negative aspects of it. Kinda sounds like “The Reformed Pastor”, now doesn’t it?
2. Josh
May 18, 2006
11:22 AM
Tim,
You bring up some great points. People are so hesitant to include church discipline as a mark of a true church for fear that it will scare people away or come across as legalistic. But the Scriptures clearly teach that the church should discipline those in blatent, unrepentent sin. I believe that local churches today are much weaker because they lack church discipline.
3. Ryan
May 18, 2006
12:01 PM
In recent months a relative has been excommunicated from our church for refusal to repent of an adulterous relationship.
Throughout this time I’ve been amazed at how angrily other family members who attend churches that do not practice church discipline have reacted to the actions of my church.
I think churches would do well to recover the practice of church discipline both to purify the church and to seek to restore wandering sheep. Pastors would need to work hard though to shape the thinking of their congregations on this matter. Extreme individualism seems to have determined many Christians’ views on this rather than biblical teaching.
4. Wes
May 18, 2006
12:07 PM
Maybe this is why in modern America, many cannot tell the difference between the world and the church. Being a good church boy since 1980, I never remember someone be disiciplined by my church leaders. And I started with the Church of Christ…then Vineyard, then non-denom, then charistmatic and now ‘sort of’ reformed baptist.
I’ve heard some leaders say that they would rather error on being too gracious than being too legalistic. Is church leadership really that easy and simple? How is one a sheppard when wolves/sin are given grace instead of the rod? Will God hold church leaders accountable for not exercising church discipline by being too gracious? If a parent never disciplines their children what is the general result? If church leaders never discipline the church what is the general result? I believe for the modern american church, we are seeing the result.
5. donsands
May 18, 2006
3:05 PM
Excellent thoughts.
I would love to see more discussion on this subject. And more fervant prayer for our leaders to establish better church government.
I think one reason there’s no church discipline is that we leaders are too timid, I know I have been. It’s difficult to bring disfellowship upon someone. Very difficult.
A little leaven needs to be cut out.
6. donsands
May 18, 2006
3:06 PM
I should have said, “not nearly enough discipline”.
7. Mark Lauterbach
May 18, 2006
5:13 PM
These are excellent points. As one who has written on the subject of church discipline (The Transforming Community) and had lots of experience (I think I am up to thirty cases of church wide action in discipline or restoration) I can testify that proper discipline is immensely helpful to all. But most effective is when the first stage of correction and reconciliation is happening all the time! I have just finished reading The Peacemaker by Ken Sande. It is such an excellent guide.
Re: the matters being discussed. I am to be discerning, but it is the church that finally reckons someone’s profession to be in-credible — not the individual. I do not know if someone is a Christian or not — especially if I do not know them — even when they have persisted in sin. That is the responsibility of the local church.
I have seen remarkable repentance in people who persisted in sin and were disciplined by the church and considered to be an unbeliever — and turns out, they were a sinning brother and God worked through the process. The church did what they were supposed to do — and the members walked together in this. But I find no NT command for an individual Christian to act in judgment as though someone is a “tax collector.” Individuals are not to act as though they are “mini-churches” in themselves.
I am to be discerning, but it is local churches who have been given that responsibility and when it is exercised it is beautiful and wondrous to watch. May the practice mutliply.
8. Dallas Pymm
May 18, 2006
5:30 PM
“I am to be discerning, but it is local churches who have been given that responsibility and when it is exercised it is beautiful and wondrous to watch. May the practice mutliply.”
Great point Mark. This was one of my pastors points as well when he preached on church discipline. I guess that is why it is called church discipline.
9. wfseube
May 18, 2006
5:38 PM
John Hollandsworth said: When I read this post, the first thing that popped into my mind (always a dangerous thing!) was not church discipline, but child discipline.
Wes said: I’ve heard some leaders say that they would rather error on being too gracious than being too legalistic.
Re: these two comments - if we fail to discipline our children, are we showing “grace”, or are we encouraging them to continue their incorrect (sinful) behavior? Just as society has raised a generation of spoiled brat children, we are growing many generations of spoiled, dreadfully mislead and spiritually damaged adults (and children, for that matter). We are incorrectly leading them to believe that their behavior is just fine in the eyes of God. While it may be acceptable in the eyes of a church with a low view of Scripture and the Lord, it certainly isn’t acceptable to Him.
I do show some grace to my kids when they misbehave, but when there is a pattern that indicates that they must have their attitudes adjusted, they are disciplined. It should be the same with church members - an occasional slip-up (sin) can perhaps be overlooked, or maybe the pastor or elder could discuss with the church member. But, like the Andrew Sullivan situation, a repeated, overt, glorified pattern of sin should be dealt with via church discipline.
Will churches do this? Well, a liberal Catholic “church” such as Sullivan’s certainly won’t. In fact, most - liberal or conservative - won’t, likely because of the attitude that Wes cites. Just as likely, they won’t because of this terrible fear of legalism. And I must say that that fear is not altogether unfounded. How many churches would discipline over true core doctrinal issues versus “disputable matters”? “Sorry, Mr. Church Member Person, but I saw you with a beer at the ball game last night, and I’ve seen you doing that before - you must be disciplined, because we don’t condone alcohol here at The Church Of The Law.” There is that legalism risk. But do you throw out the baby with the bathwater?
The majority of the churches, “true” or non, are indeed throwing out the baby.
——
bill
10. joythruchrist
May 18, 2006
7:44 PM
I would truly like to see some of you respond to me on this one. I am in full agreement with the idea of church discipline, but right now we are dealing with this on a different level. We are dealing with being falsely accused of sin we haven’t committed, and with the fact that our former pastor is the one who committed the sin, but is unrepentant.
This is a very long story, so I’ll just give a summary.
My husband and I brought a doctrinal issue to our pastor that we and many others in our church felt needed to be dealt with; he seemed uninterested in dealing with it.
My husband was very concerned by this lack of interest on the part of the pastor, and wrote a very respectful email to him.
My husband was then accused of lust (quite falsely!) and I and some other ladies were accused of gossip. This was also a false accusation. We then were kicked off the worship team and were called in to a meeting with the elders in training. There are no elders in our church, and we are nondenominational, so there is no authority over our pastor.
At this meeting, he angrily blasted us in front of the 3 other men, who all seem afraid to speak to him about his wrongs. This pastor brought up matters of a private counseling session in front of these men, and read off a list, rapid-fire, of my “offenses”.
After leaving this church, I have contacted some of the many people who have left this church, and their stories are very similar to mine. He is leaving a trail of hurt people throughout our community. He was kicked out of the CMA denomination for similar offenses.
This pastor is very abusive to anyone who questions him on anything! Even if you are totally respectful! He then makes up sins you have commited and says you are being disciplined.
Anyway, there is so much more to this that I can’t put it all here.
What does one do when they are being falsely accused throughout the community by a pastor who has no accountability to anyone, and will not even admit his own sin?
11. donsands
May 18, 2006
8:06 PM
I’ve known of pastor’s who abuse their status as a leader. It certainly happens.
Peter tells elders to be examples to the flock, and to never lord yourself over them.
Any accusation against an elder must have witnesses, and it seems you had many others as well as yourselves.
If he won’t hear you, then you may consider him as an infidel.
May the Lord give you His wisdom and courage as you continue to deal with this, even though you have left the church. I would try to pray for him as I thought of him. And ask the Lord to show you any bitterness, or wrong accusing that you may have done.
12. Brian Thornton
May 18, 2006
8:56 PM
Finding yourself in the middle of disciplinary action that is either being handled unbiblically or is without merit and has no basis in fact can be a nightmare…especially when it is being carried out by a single-elder-ruled church with no congregational context to serve as a check and balance.
Donsands provides some good counsel here, I think. As far as what you can do…pray for the others involved (including the single elder) and pray that the Holy Spirit would reveal to you any areas that you may have been wrong that you can use to reach out and initiate reconciliation. Regardless of whether you are planning to ever go back to that church or not…seek reconciliation as far as you can without violating your own conscience.
We must - as much as it depends on us - pursue and study the things that make for peace with our brothers and sisters in Christ.
From Matthew Henry’s A METHOD FOR PRAYER:
(G.) Our uncharitableness towards our brethren, and unpeaceableness with our relations, neighbors, and friends, and perhaps injustice towards them.
-We have been very guilty concerning our brother: for we have not studied the things that make for peace, nor the things wherewith we might edify one another.
-We have been ready to judge our brother, and to set at nought our brother, forgetting that we must all shortly stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
-Contrary to the royal law of charity, we have vaunted ourselves and been puffed up, have behaved ourselves unseemly and sought our own, have been easily provoked, have rejoiced in iniquity, and been secretly glad at calamities.
-We have been desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another: when we should have considered one another, to provoke to love, and to good works. -p.52
13. joythruchrist
May 18, 2006
10:29 PM
I appreciate your comments. We certainly have been in prayer regarding this situation, and I do confess that I am struggling with anger and hurt over this. I do find it difficult to pray for him. I’m not sure how to pray… I pray that his “ministry” will end and that no one else will get hurt, but what do I pray for him specifically? I do pray for his repentance. This pastor is someone that we respected and admired up to this point. We simply had never really questioned anything yet, so we didn’t know he would react in such a manner.
The pastor angrily threw a couple of papers in the trash that I copied off of John MacArthur’s website regarding the doctrinal issues at hand. He said to my husband angrily, “Who ARE you? You’re NOTHING!” At one point I tried to peaceably ask him if he could at least admit that he had an anger problem, and his response was “NO! I DON’T!” Every person in the room looked at him in shock and then admitted that they do occasionally deal with anger. But not the pastor!
Two of the elders-in-training are very upset about what happened and saw the pastor as being clearly in the wrong, but are afraid he will lash out at them the way he did at us if they say so. The other elder-in-training is very loyal to the pastor, and will no longer speak to us. It is a shame; we thought he and his wife were good friends of ours.
We have many friends in this church, though it is a very small church. I have been told that there is hardly anyone in attendance anymore since this happened. My concern is largely for the few who are left who do not see him for what he is. He has counseled a number of people and then they have heard the details from others later! He cannot keep his mouth shut about private matters, and many have said they believe he and his wife are the real gossips. Isn’t this a breech of confidence?
He would not take any accusation against him. What does that mean practically anyway? I mean, what is the result?
14. donsands
May 19, 2006
8:06 AM
Very difficult situation. You must be very discouraged. But in times like this we are able to grow closer to Christ. I have done so in the past. The depression and pain is very hard to deal with at the time, but there will be fruit produced, for God works all things together for our good and His glory.
“If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peacably with all men.
… Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.” Romans 13:18,21
I thought this portion of the Word may help your heart. I pray the Lord will use it to comfort you, and to give you confidence in what you need to do.
15. 4ever4given
May 19, 2006
8:45 AM
You wrote: (it’s mostly Steve Camp’s fault—he and I just have too much to talk about)
(huge grin)… My husband and I believe Mr. Camp has MUCH to share about the Lord… it overflows, pours out and he just cannot help himself. It is always good, God-glorifying conversation with him on the phone. We should all have much to say about our Lord like Mr. Camp. (He will be coming to our church in a couple of weeks.)
You wrote: “Church discipline is an area that is largely overlooked in the contemporary church, yet is one that is necessary for a church to be a true church and to be a healthy church. “
My husband and I have been blessed by having been a part of a church that sought to do church discipline according to Scripture both in the past, and in the church we are in now. It is tough, and painful, but oh so necessary… and when done rightly, draws the sheep closer to the Shepherd and is a beautiful picture of God’s necessary and divine chastisement on His children.
16. joythruchrist
May 19, 2006
6:14 PM
Don, Brian,
I truly appreciate your feedback! You guys are great, and I will remember all you’ve said…
Blessings!
Jen
17. Baus
May 20, 2006
9:49 AM
The Scots Confession (1560), chapter 18 says this:
“The notes, therefore, of the true church of God we believe, confess, and avow to be: first, the true preaching of the word of God, in which God has revealed himself to us, as the writings of the prophets and apostles do declare; secondly, the right administration of the sacraments of Christ Jesus, which must be annexed unto the word and promise of God, to seal and confirm the same in our hearts; last, ecclesiastical discipline uprightly ministered, as God’s word prescribes, whereby vice is repressed, and virtue nourished.”
However, the Westminster Confession says this:
“particular churches… are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.”
A much different construal, you see.
Thinking on this issue developed into what may be a called “boils-down-to-one-mark” view. That mark is the gospel. However, we know that without gospel discipline, no church will long continue in the gospel.
But here’s more on the “one-mark” view:
James Bannerman in his book “The Church Of Christ” (1869), chapter 5, on the Notes Of The Church, writes:
“First, there is an important distinction between what is necessary to the being of a Church, and what is necessary to its wellbeing…
there is a distinction not less important to be borne in mind, in connection with this matter, between the things for which the Church was instituted, and the things that have been instituted for the Church.
…to hold to and preach the true faith or doctrine of Chirst [i.e., the true gospel] is the only sure and infallible note or mark of a Christian Church…
other things, such as sacraments and ordinances, the ministry, and the outward administration of the Church, are not essential to it, but only accidental.”
See too Charles Hodge’s earlier essay entitled “Is the Church of Rome a Part of the Visible Church?” (Princeton Review, April 1846):
“…By a definition [of the true church] we do not mean a description including a specification of attributes which properly pertain to the thing defined; but an enumeration of its essential attributes and of none other.
…We may say that a church is a society in which the pure word of God is preached, the sacraments duly administered, and discipline properly exercised by legitimate officers. This, however, is a description of a pure and orderly church, and not an enumeration of the essential attributes of such a body. If we use that description as a definition, we must exclude all but orthodox Presbyterians from the pale of the church.
…This distinction between a description and definition, between an enumeration of what belongs to a pure church, and what is necessary to the being of a church, is often disregarded.
…the [visible] church consists of all those throughout the world who profess the true religion [i.e., the true gospel], together with their children. This is a legitimate established meaning of the term. In this view of the church, nothing is essential to it but the profession of the true religion.
…[particualarly, a church is] an organized society professing the true religion, united for the purpose of worship and discipline, and subject to the same form of government and to some common tribunal.
…By the true religion cannot be meant all the doctrines of the true religion, and nothing more or less. For then no human society would be a church unless perfect both in knowledge and faith. Nor can it mean all the clearly revealed and important doctrines of the Bible for then no man could be a Christian and no body of men a church, which rejects or is ignorant of those doctrines. But it must mean the essential doctrines of the gospel, those doctrines without which no man can be saved.”
18. Pastor Green
May 21, 2006
1:39 AM
It is not a comment, but a question. Listen, I believe in church discipline. In fact, judgement starts with the house of God. I knew I had a short-coming that has been a long life struggle and suppose will be til I die, but I did not deem it fair to deal with anybody else sin in the church until I had dealt with mine. Which I did a year ago. I shut down the ministry for a while, checked into a mens group and worked on my sexual lust. Now, I am a sex recovery pastor.
However, the problem is I believe in church discipline, but the person who needs desperately to be disciplined is my own wife.
Very unspiritual, hardly ever reads the Word, but worse of all, runs people away from the church.
The discipline I recommend is that she be excommunicated for 3 months. What do you think?
Because it is my wife, should I be trying to do it, or let it go.
19. Pastor Green
May 21, 2006
1:41 AM
It is not a comment, but a question. Listen, I believe in church discipline. In fact, judgement starts with the house of God. I knew I had a short-coming that has been a long life struggle and suppose will be til I die, but I did not deem it fair to deal with anybody else sin in the church until I had dealt with mine. Which I did a year ago. I shut down the ministry for a while, checked into a mens group and worked on my sexual lust. Now, I am a sex recovery pastor.
However, the problem is I believe in church discipline, but the person who needs desperately to be disciplined is my own wife.
Very unspiritual, hardly ever reads the Word, but worse of all, runs people away from the church.
The discipline I recommend is that she be excommunicated for 3 months. What do you think?
Because it is my wife, should I be trying to do it, or let it go.
20. Baus
May 21, 2006
2:27 AM
I think this pastor Green must be kidding.
Church discipline isn’t a means to get people to stop being annoying, or to get them to grow faster.
And it’s not something weilded by a “pastor.”
Where is the charge of sin against her? Where is the confrontation? Where are the elders?
Follow “Matthew 18:15-20” and you got yourself a discipline case.
21. pgepps
May 21, 2006
6:46 AM
I really hope that some of these posts are from trolls or pranksters, not people speaking in propria persona.
“Excommunicated for 3 months”? What the dickens is that supposed to *MEAN*? I don’t think this guy even knows what “excommunicated” means.
The other problems brought up here (as well as the gossip-mongering) accentuate the need for proper church discipline, which includes a proper *context* for discipline.
After all, to be disciples (students, retainers, servants) together, we must be obedient together. That can’t happen if we’re allowing the dictates of a single person or a parachurch hierarchy to rival Christ.
Proper church discipline will require mutual submission, deference to all others at all stages of growth and responsibility, as its most basic framework. That probably means that an unaccountable, single-elder church is screwed up long before anyone abuses the power he shouldn’t have.
Cheers,
PGE
22. Dan B.
May 22, 2006
10:05 AM
Tim,
Great post. My church has actually carried out church discipline a few times in the past few years—and as Ryan said above, the families of the individuals reacted angrily, and even left. It must be reiterated (as some have done here in the comments) that the purpose of the discipline is either to restore the brother or sister in Christ, or to show that they love their sin more.
Growing up in several non-denom churches, if discipline had been exercised and true, biblical leadership by elders was practiced, I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have witnessed the divisiveness and strife that led to three church splits.
If this is not done, then it’s true that the world will see no difference between themselves and other churchgoers, and the Gospel is less effectively communicated in the process.
23. joythruchrist
May 23, 2006
2:12 PM
PGEPPS,
I sincerely hope that I have misunderstood your post above and that you do not think I am a troll. I told what truly happened in our situation, though not the complete story, as that would take up too much space. I was truly looking for some advice.
” That probably means that an unaccountable, single-elder church is screwed up long before anyone abuses the power he shouldn’t have.”
As to this comment, you are probably right about that, but for the majority of church go-ers who are not involved with the details of how the church is run, we wouldn’t have known these things until this happened. We trusted, and therefore didn’t question.
24. Mickey
June 9, 2006
8:02 PM
Hey, thank you for this post. I’ve linked it here