It seems that people were surprised to learn, in an article I wrote last week, that I presume my children to be unsaved. The article, What’s Dead Looks Dead, expressed my belief that my children (ages 6, 3, and 3 months) are, at this time, likely unsaved and are thus spiritually dead. The subsequent discussion was very interesting and the commenters ranged from Reformed Baptists to Roman Catholics and just about everyone between. I was honestly very surprised at the reaction, for I had not thought that what I wrote was so controversial.
The comments turned quite quickly to a discussion of what happens to children who die in infancy. I’d like to discuss that issue along with my previous posts over the next couple of days.
There was a time that the issue of what happens to children who die in infancy was near and dear to the hearts of almost every family. It is only in recent days and in industrialized nations that the infant mortality rate has plunged. Only a few short decades ago almost every family knew the pain of losing children. I am grateful that I live in an age when this issue is, in many ways, abstract. Then again, we live in an age where countless millions of children are aborted each year. God has blessed us with the knowledge, understanding and technology to drastically reduce the number of children who die in infancy. Yet this same knowledge, understanding and technology has been used to terminate untold millions of lives. So perhaps this is an issue that is as relevant to our day as to any day.
When we examine the issue of what happens to children when they die, we will find four predominant views among believers. The first is that all children who die in infancy are saved. If one view holds an edge on the others in terms of the quantity (and perhaps even quality) of adherents, this would likely be the one. While all admit the Bible is not explicit in stating that every child who dies in infancy is saved, they believe it can be deduced from a study of relevant passages in Scripture. The second is that the children of believers are saved. This view, held by a minority of Christians, is dependent upon a belief in covenant theology, something that would put it at odds with many believers. This view indicates, then, that while the children of believers are saved, the children of most, if not all unbelievers, are reprobate. The fourth view is that we can have no assurance. This view simply states that there is not sufficient evidence in Scripture to make a firm determination. Eventually we must simply admit that this is an area in which Scripture is silent and leave it to God to work out. The final view is that unbaptized infants are not saved while baptized infants may be. This is the view of the Roman Catholic church and Protestant denominations which teach some form of baptismal regeneration. Because this view clashes with the beliefs of the vast majority of Protestants I will not address it at this time, for it would require in-depth understanding of the Catholic doctrines regarding baptism, something that is outside the scope of our discussion.
I’d like to briefly examine each of the first three teachings.
All Children Who Die In Infancy Are Saved
As mentioned earlier, this seems to be the predominant view in Christian circles, both mainstream and Reformed. Among the many notables who have held to this view are R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, John Piper, B.B. Warfield and Charles Spurgeon.
This view teaches that God, out of His grace chooses to save all who die in infancy. While adherents affirm the seriousness of original sin and acknowledge that all infants have inherited a sin nature from Adam, they also teach that God chooses to extend special grace to these infants. Sproul says “infants who die are given a special dispensation of the grace of God; it is not by their innocence but by God’s grace that they are received into heaven.” (Now That’s A Good Question, page 295). Sinful nature, then, is not sufficient reason for God to condemn the child, for where salvation is by grace, damnation is by works. Those who have not had opportunity to do works which explicitly and willfully reject God are not condemned to hell.
John MacArthur, in his book Safe In The Arms of God points out that the Bible consistently refers to the inhabitants of hell as being those who willfully committed sins and rebellion. He believes God does not condemn infants because: they have no willful rebellion or unbelief; they have never suppressed the truth; they have no understanding of sin’s impact or consequences; they have no debased behavior; and they have no ability to choose salvation. MacArthur concludes “there is no place in Scripture in which a person suffers the judgment of damnation on the basis of anything other than sinful deeds, including the sinful deed of disbelief—a conscious, willful, intentional choice to disbelieve. Furthermore, God does not charge people with sins until sins are committed.” (page 89)
John Piper, after acknowledging the presence and importance of original sin, says “if a person lacks the natural capacity to see the revelation of God’s will or God’s glory then that person’s sin would not remain—God would not bring the person into final judgment for not believing what he had no natural capacity to see.” In response to Romans 1 which speaks of God’s revelation through nature as leaving those who have never heard the gospel without excuse Piper says “if a person did not have access to the revelation of God’s glory—did not have the natural capacity to see it and understand it, then Paul implies they would have an excuse at the judgment.” He concludes: “The point for us is that even though we human beings are under the penalty of everlasting judgment and death because of the fall of our race into sin and the sinful nature that we all have, nevertheless God only executes this judgment on those who have the natural capacity to see his glory and understand his will, and refuse to embrace it as their treasure. Infants, I believe, do not yet have that capacity; and therefore, in God’s inscrutable way, he brings them under the forgiving blood of his Son.”
Having thoroughly studied this view, I believe that it fails to satisfactorily reconcile itself with the doctrine of original sin. So allow me a moment here to discuss original sin. Some theologians, Wayne Grudem and John Frame among them, believe that this term is misleading and prefer to speak of inherited sin. They are probably correct in their belief that this is superior. Still, for sake of ease, I will stick with the more common terminology. Paul teaches in Romans 5 that somehow, when Adam sinned, we all sinned. He begins this argument in verse 12 where he writes, “Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned…” He continues in verse 19 saying, “For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.” He teaches in verse 16 that all men have been held accountable for Adam’s sin: “For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation.” He repeats this point just two verses later saying, “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men…”
Original sin, according to Desiring God, is “the sinful tendencies, desires, and dispositions in our hearts with which we are all born.” It is the only explanation in all the world for the sin problem that plagues all of humanity. It is the only explanation for our sinful natures. It is something inherent in all of us and immediately manifests itself in all manner of sin and depravity. This doctrine tells us that we do not become sinners when we sin, but that we sin because we are sinners.
Romans tells us in clear terms that were are born sinful and that Adam’s sin is held against all humanity. What it does not tell us is how this happens. But we know that somehow Adam’s sin is imputed to us. It is held against us as if we sinned in Adam’s place. There are several understandings of how Adam’s sin is imputed to us, but the best seems to be the representative view which teaches that God appointed Adam as representative for the human race. In his position as representative, Adam made a decision and took an action that affected all those whom he represented. This is similar to how the President of a nation, as representative of the people, can declare war on another nation, thus bringing every citizen of one nation into a state of war with every citizen of another nation. So not only have we inherited a sinful nature from Adam, but “we are also regarded as having sinned in Adam such that we are guilty of his act as well (imputed sin). Imputed sin is the ruin of our standing before God and is thus not an internal quality but an objective reckoning of guilt, whereas original sin is the ruin of our character and thus is a reference to internal qualities. Both original sin and imputed sin place us under the judgment of God” (Desiring God).
Original sin and the imputation of Adam’s sin are problems that plague even the youngest of human beings. Because they are inherent to all people, children are as fully and justly condemned as adults. The Bible makes no exceptions. The teaching of Scripture is clear: even if I never committed a sin throughout my entire life, I would still be justly condemned to hell because of the original sin of Adam. This sin is imputed to me because Adam, as representative of the human race, sinned on my behalf. We see the pervasiveness of this sin by the fact that Jesus had to be born of God rather than man, for that is the only way He could be born freed from the burden of original sin. As such He was pure, not just in His actions but also in His very nature. Adam’s sin was not imputed to Christ. If we are to believe that Christ stands as our representative in the act of redemption, we must also believe that Adam stands as our representative in the act of becoming a fallen people. We cannot have one without the other. Even children are born with a nature opposed to God.
When Sproul indicates that children “have not had opportunity to do works which explicitly and willfully reject God” he does not seem to account for the imputation of Adam’s sin to our account. When MacArthur says that the unregenerate are damned because of “a conscious, willful, intentional choice to disbelieve,” he also does not seem to reconcile the fact that Adam made a conscious, willful, intentional choice on our behalf and that this is imputed to us. And thus Adam’s sin is held against us. And so these men can make an argument that answers sin, at least to some extent, but not, as I understand it, a sinful nature.




Comments (32) »
1. John Divito
July 19, 2006
11:10 AM
Tim, you have summarized well my current thinking on this issue too.
BTW, Drs. Mohler and Akin also wrote on the death of infants: “The Salvation of the ‘Little Ones’: Do Infants who Die Go to Heaven?”
Regardless, I have never seen a theologian who defends the “All Children Who Die In Infancy Are Saved” view which exegetically deals with Romans 5 and federal headship. Until they provide a compelling argument from this biblical text and on the imputation of Adam’s sin, I cannot agree with their position.
2. Bill Combs
July 19, 2006
11:18 AM
“When MacArthur says that the unregenerate are damned because of ‘a conscious, willful, intentional choice to disbelieve,’ he also does not seem to reconcile the fact that we made a conscious, willful, intentional choice through Adam. And thus Adam’s sin is held against us.”
Tim,
I agree with what you are saying, but a small quibble. I don’t think it is best to describe the representative view as “we made a conscious, willful, intentional choice through Adam.” I know you say “through Adam,” but the point of the representative view—versus realism—is that I did not make a conscious, willful, intentional choice—my representative, Adam, did. I am responsible for his conscious, willful, intentional choice, but it was his choice not mine. I believe that your statement betters describes realism, which suggests that we are co-sinners with Adam—when he sinned, we sinned. But in the representative view we did not actually sin when Adam sinned, but we do bear the penalty for his sin since he was our representative.
3. Hoshea
July 19, 2006
11:24 AM
You’re bold.
You’re liable to make a few enemies for not agreeing 100% with Piper, Sproul and MacArthur even though they don’t agree 100% on certain topics. ;-)
Nice thoughts. I believe that either way it falls, we can trust that all that God does is holy. Thus we need not fear that He’ll unrighteously condemn someone to hell or neglect to show His sovereign grace and mercy as He sees fit. I know that’s kind of “ducking” the issue. But it’s one of those things that is hard for some of us mental peons to fully deduce from scripture.
God bless.
4. Frank Martens
July 19, 2006
11:35 AM
“This sin is imputed to me because Adam, as representative of the human race, sinned on my behalf.”
Ok, sin was imputed, but was condemnation imputed? I believe that’s the difference. I’m not convinced yet that condemnation pertains to all until all are at an age to be accountable for their actions.
However, I can see how the nature of sin, or sin itself has been imputed to all.
5. SueS
July 19, 2006
11:43 AM
The thought of a baby going to hell is totally repugnant, even if that response is deemed to be “sentimental”. Since becoming Reformed and more aware of the consequences of original sin and election, I now lean more to the view that babies who die in infancy are elect, a view that is upheld by the authors you have quoted. Maybe the fact that I was once a mommy and am now the grandmother of a baby clouds my reasoning, but I fail to see the weakness you see in their conclusions. Your thoughts at the end of your post left me with the feeling that all babies who die go to hell because of their original sin. I’m not by any means trying to marginalize that very important doctrine but I believe that the grace of God is sufficient for those little ones who, though they are born with the stain of sin, are unable to turn to Christ for salvation. Of course, in the end, after all the debates by those learned and unlearned, it is still, thankfully, our sovereign God who makes that decision.
6. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
11:48 AM
“Ok, sin was imputed, but was condemnation imputed?”
I’m not sure how you could defend the position that condemnation was not imputed. If sin is imputed to us, surely so also is the condemnation. Where there is sin there MUST be condemnation. “For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation…”
Sin brought judgment and judgment brought condemnation.
7. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
11:52 AM
“The thought of a baby going to hell is totally repugnant, even if that response is deemed to be “sentimental”.”
It is. But it should not be any more or less repugnant than the thought of any person going to hell. Our sin natures are more than enough to render us guilty before God and deserving of punishment. Watch a tiny child throwing a tantrum over something inconceivably stupid and you cannot help but conclude that you’re witnessing a little sinner acting out that sin nature.
“Your thoughts at the end of your post left me with the feeling that all babies who die go to hell because of their original sin. I’m not by any means trying to marginalize that very important doctrine but I believe that the grace of God is sufficient for those little ones who, though they are born with the stain of sin, are unable to turn to Christ for salvation.”
I will withhold comment since I will cover this in some detail tomorrow as I look at the other positions.
“Of course, in the end, after all the debates by those learned and unlearned, it is still, thankfully, our sovereign God who makes that decision.”
It is indeed, and I believe that is where our refuge needs to be.
8. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
11:53 AM
“Regardless, I have never seen a theologian who defends the “All Children Who Die In Infancy Are Saved” view which exegetically deals with Romans 5 and federal headship. Until they provide a compelling argument from this biblical text and on the imputation of Adam’s sin, I cannot agree with their position.”
I quite agree. I’ve seen these men do a wonderful job of discussing Romans 5 in other contexts, but I’ve never seen a strong defense of the “all babies go to heaven” position in light of Romans 5.
9. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
11:54 AM
“Tim,
I agree with what you are saying, but a small quibble. I don’t think it is best to describe the representative view as “we made a conscious, willful, intentional choice through Adam.” I know you say “through Adam,” but the point of the representative view—versus realism—is that I did not make a conscious, willful, intentional choice—my representative, Adam, did. I am responsible for his conscious, willful, intentional choice, but it was his choice not mine. I believe that your statement betters describes realism, which suggests that we are co-sinners with Adam—when he sinned, we sinned. But in the representative view we did not actually sin when Adam sinned, but we do bear the penalty for his sin since he was our representative.”
That is a fair critique. I should have inserted a “like.” It is like we sinned and the consequences are same as if we had sinned.
10. rebecca
July 19, 2006
11:57 AM
That’s Romans 5, not 12. :)
I’m personally undecided on this issue, and I don’t think I’ll know for sure in this life. There just isn’t enough evidence to come to a firm conclusion.
11. Doug
July 19, 2006
12:00 PM
Tim, great post!
Steve Camp has also written on this subject. Check out: http://tinyurl.com/5cwvt
12. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
12:03 PM
“That’s Romans 5, not 12. :)”
D’oh!
“I’m personally undecided on this issue, and I don’t think I’ll know for sure in this life. There just isn’t enough evidence to come to a firm conclusion.”
…not that this has kept people from trying! :)
13. Phillip
July 19, 2006
12:16 PM
This is a question that I have wrestled with…If all babies who die in infancy are saved, then:
a. why aren’t Christians pro-abortion?
b. why aren’t Christians for infancticide?
Rather than “take the risk” of them not becoming believers when they grow up, why not “make sure” of their salvation through one of these two means?
14. Gavin Brown
July 19, 2006
12:23 PM
Tim,
Good post. One thing you didn’t clarify…what, the, is your position on the issue?
Food for thought: God showed pity upon Nineveh, a city in which there were more than 120,000 who did not know their right hand from their left.
Can this be seen as a reference to young children?
Also, Phil Johnson did a lecture called “When Infants die” You can downoad it for free at http://www.swordandtrowel.org/philsermons.htm
15. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
12:24 PM
“a. why aren’t Christians pro-abortion? b. why aren’t Christians for infancticide?”
Someone could make such an argument, but it would be pretty weak. After all, the end does not justify the means. You can believe in God and still value the sanctity of life.
But, as people often say, if you believe that all children who die in infancy go to heaven, abortion is, in some sense, an act of mercy since many of those children would no doubt go to hell. But again, these are both kind of silly arguments (kind of like the “because we have been saved and cannot fall away, now we can do whatever we want” argument).
16. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
12:24 PM
“One thing you didn’t clarify…what, the, is your position on the issue?”
We’ll get to that tomorrow.
17. James King
July 19, 2006
12:54 PM
This is a very interesting concept. You are indeed correct in that I have not heard anyone address this other than to simply state infants that die are automatically saved.
I think it would be presumptuous of us to think that a sovereign God, who, through his word as stated that ALL are guilty of sin, and who also chooses some to be saved and others not, would then choose all children to be saved out of hand.
I am interested if there is any scripture that could clear this up one way or another?
18. Thomas
July 19, 2006
1:33 PM
Tim,
I don�t know if you�ve read the article written by Drs. Mohler and Akin but in it, they give a convincing answer (in my mind) for the problem of inherited sin. God�s Election is the answer to the inherited sin. Also, Apostle Paul in Romans 5 gives us the answer to the problem (as he often does) of inherited sin which he had just pointed out.
Romans 5:16, �But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.�
The free gift = God�s grace = God�s sovereign choice of gifting to those undeserving = God�s Election. Children who die in infancy will be in heaven because they are God�s Elect, I believe.
19. Chris U
July 19, 2006
1:40 PM
“The teaching of Scripture is clear: even if I never committed a sin throughout my entire life, I would still be justly condemned to hell because of the original sin of Adam”
is it really? does Scripture leave room for those reading/hearing the text to not have sinned? “for all have sinned…”
the teaching of Scripture is clear: because I have sinned, I am justly condemned.
“For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.” i don’t think that means there’s imputed condemnation or sin, but that man would then carry the burden of the sinful nature. and in fact, while Christ was born of God, he was also born of man and faced every temptation, yet remained without sin. to me, it was because he remained without sin in the face of temptation, not that he was born of God and escaped imputed condemnation, that made Jesus the once-for-all sacrifice
all of that to say, i’m not arguing that all babies are saved, but i don’t think you can reject that argument because they might have imputed condemnation. they may in fact sin even as babes (disobedience might still be a sin even if explained by ignorance or the lack of capability to obey), or be born in sin, living every moment outside of a relationship with Christ, or something…
20. Chris de Vidal
July 19, 2006
1:47 PM
“Regardless, I have never seen a theologian who defends the ‘All Children Who Die In Infancy Are Saved’ view which exegetically deals with Romans 5 and federal headship. Until they provide a compelling argument from this biblical text and on the imputation of Adam’s sin, I cannot agree with their position.” — John Divito
John, I held onto precisely your position until last year when I heard my (reformed) pastor preach on this subject. He holds to federal headship and imputed/inherited sin. He did a fine job defending the doctrine and after much thought I changed my mind about it. I still have a copy of that sermon and would be willing to share it. Write me: Chris (AT) deVidal (DOT) tv.
To your point, Romans 5 is tough. But then so are the other verses used to support this; particularly, David’s grief over his son Absolom but no greif over his son from Bathsheba. I think they also refer to the book of Job when he says it would have been better had he not been born. Difficult passages, to be sure.
Isn’t it possible that babies, as Sproul stated, are received “by God’s grace”, the same amazing grace that received us, without merit?
But I confess that this blog discussion — particularly the difficulties of Romans 5 — has stirred in my spirit not to settle it. I’ll be thinking about this…
21. Jim J
July 19, 2006
1:52 PM
Thank you, Tim, for taking on this subject. It was after studying this topic that God truly opened my eyes to allow me to understand my sinfulness and salvataion by grace. Unless God’s grace had called me, I would still be in the same position as the infant, “not understanding….not [seeking] for God.”
22. Drew Pearce
July 19, 2006
2:38 PM
Great article. I’m really looking forward to the rest. This is something I’ve been dealing with lately, trying to come to a conclusion. “All babies who die go to heaven” preached a certain evangelical university that I used to attend. But then I was never able to find any scriptural support. Thanks for boldly discussing this subject.
23. Brian Thornton
July 19, 2006
3:33 PM
I think a great example that can refute the position put forth by Piper, Sproul and MacArthur that a person goes to hell based on their OWN personal sin (and therefore babies go to heaven because they haven’t personally sinned yet)is the example we have from Paul of Jacob and Esau.
Paul is VERY clear that Esau was condemned BEFORE he had been born and BEFORE he had done anything good or bad. I would ask Sproul, Piper and Mac why…why would Esau be condemned and Jacob chosen to be blessed prior to their own personal sin? Again, Scripture is clear…so that God’s gracious choice according to election would stand, and NOT according to works.
And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.” -Romans 9:10-13
Thanks for taking on this topic, Tim.
24. Erik
July 19, 2006
4:17 PM
I agree with you Sues. It’s not up to us who goes to heaven or hell (and it’s a good thing too).
25. Chris U
July 19, 2006
4:40 PM
romans 9 tells me they had not yet sinned, but that God prophetically spoke about the fate of 2 nations before their forefathers even left the womb, i don’t think it’s an obvious interpretation to say that they were condemned at that point
which brings up another issue, time… if someone was ever going to sin then i think that they are always condemned if you say that God is looking at all of time, our whole lives, as many people explain it. but that still leaves those who might never consciously sin such as an infant or fetus
and what about fetuses? are you all advancing that they are condemned? i’m not disagreeing, i’m not sure, just asking for clarification
26. Tim Challies
July 19, 2006
4:44 PM
“and what about fetuses? are you all advancing that they are condemned?”
Since a fetus must assume it’s sinful human nature at the moment of conception, I’d say that they must be sinful and, though it seems strange, deserving of condemnation. That is a statement on just how sinful humans really are.
27. Jeri
July 19, 2006
5:01 PM
I don’t know that you can use what God did in His choosing of Jacob and rejecting of Esau to refute the position of Piper and Macarthur and others. I also believe that some things we see through a glass darkly, and on some subjects it may be that no view is going to mesh satisfactorily with our doctrine! In the end, God says that He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.
This is an area that since we can’t know, we should be very careful about. There are hurting parents who want to know where their baby or young child is now. I think the best answer we can give them is that the Bible doesn’t speak directly to this issue, but the Bible does tell us that all He does is good, just and right. Jesus clearly demonstrated His love and compassion for children in Matthew 18, revealing that they have a special place in His estimation. Since we must err, I believe it’s best to err on the side of great carefulness and mercy, especially since this is not a matter that we must prove one way or another in order to defend the faith or present the truth of the gospel. It’s enough to know that God can be trusted.
28. Ray
July 19, 2006
5:26 PM
I think it would be better to say that we don’t know for sure about the fate of infants and the unborn than to dogmatically and clearly assert as fact what the scripture does not clearly state.
You are repeating a calumy that has been used to beat calvinists over the head with for generations.
Your views on this matter have appeared before in church history and it led straight to infant baptism.
Why would David say of the child of Bathsheba,
” I will go to him, but he shall not come to me. “
if ifants and innocent young children are automatically consigned to hell?
Why did Jesus say of little children, ” See that you despise not one of these little ones, for in heavens their angels do always behold the face of my Father.”?
This is a real can of worms you have openned here. Your first post about your own children wasn’t nearly this bad.
29. Brian Thornton
July 19, 2006
5:30 PM
romans 9 tells me they had not yet sinned, but that God prophetically spoke about the fate of 2 nations before their forefathers even left the womb, i don’t think it’s an obvious interpretation to say that they were condemned at that point
Romans 9 should also tell you that God hated Esau BEFORE he had done anything good or bad…Paul is very careful to make that point. Also, I think reading chapter 9 only from a national election perspective is wrong…do you think Esau would call it only the choosing and rejection of two nations…or do you think this whole thing was personal to Esau and Jacob?
Surely it was personal as well…as it is to you and I up to today…since it is those who are children of the promise who are regarded as descendants…the promise given to Arbaham, to Isaac…and then to Jacob.
What I have said before on this topic I’ll say again…IF any of those who die prematurely are saved, it is ONLY by grace THROUGH faith. There is nothing to be dogmatic about on this issue except that one thing, for there can be NO OTHER WAY for anyone to be saved…no matter what age or condition a person is in.
Salvation is by grace, through faith…faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. ANY position put forth that proclaims salvation by any other way is at once unbiblical and therefore wrong.
30. Caleb
July 19, 2006
5:37 PM
Mr. Challies,
Your site (“blog”) is very neat. I found it after reading your review of “The League of the Grateful Sons” on Amazon, by which I was impressed by your writing skills.
I hope you don’t mind, but I am blogging about that movie, and would like to quote a portion of your review. If you do, let me know. :)
As for this post, I believe that at this point in my life I agree with you. I also agree with the comment made previously by Hoshea, who said “…either way it falls, we can trust that all that God does is holy.”
I just wanted you to know that I am impressed with what you are doing, and to keep it up.
Thanks, and God Bless,
~Caleb, 15
31. Tom
July 19, 2006
7:24 PM
It would seem to me that scripture is clear that “all” have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. If we belive that the elect go to heaven and everyone else has been passed over and go to hell then it is also possible that anyone who dies before they are at an age of understanding is elect. This would include children, and adults who have no mental capacity to understand. Scripture doesn’t say one way or another however it is still possible. I cannot say what God would or would not do outside of scripture or how far His grace extends or else I could be guilty of idolatry by making a god in my own image. I can only go on what scripture says and I believe that because of His choice and grace He has chosen to place the penalty of sin for those He has chosen upon His son. Can children die and go to hell? Sure, but it is also just as possible that every person that dies without the mental capacity of understanding their sin has been chosen by God and is one of Christs elect. You can debate all you want on the issue and we will never know until we are in glory if those who are too young or without the mental capacity to understand go to hell or not.
32. Joe
July 19, 2006
7:38 PM
If, as I believe, everything you need to know about God is found in the Word of God, and nothing you need to know about God is not found in the Word of God and everything you think you know about God that’s not in th eword of god you just made up, then this issue falls into one of those categories that we will just have to make up.
In fact, I believe that God accepts children up until the “age of accountability,” whatever that is, just because I believe it.
But I could be wrong.
But I don’t think I am.
But I don’t know why.
33. Brian Thornton
July 19, 2006
7:39 PM
Can children die and go to hell? Sure, but it is also just as possible that every person that dies without the mental capacity of understanding their sin has been chosen by God and is one of Christs elect.
Tom,
Do you believe that this can happen outside of faith, which comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ?
A question for you: How can a person who dies without the mental capacity of understanding their sin have the mental capacity to assent to faith in Christ? Nothing being implied here by my question…just asking a question.