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Monday April 30, 2007
46 Comments

Frugality

Today I want to discuss frugality. I raise this issue because I have seen it appear as a topic many people, and women in particular, discuss on their blogs. Now the Bible makes it clear that money issues are often very closely connected to hear issues, and whether a person spends money freely or whether he spends money only with great reluctance, it is wise to look always to the heart. Money can be an idol both in want and in plenty. So I think this is an issue that is well worth discussing.

The actual definition of frugality can differ from person-to-person. Some see it as meaning little more than economical so that a frugal person is a person who buys things at lower prices than another person might. I think this is what most people mean by the term and how most people live out their attempts at frugality. They feel they are being frugal when they buy things using coupons rather than paying full price and when they purchase clothes or other necessities at thrift stores instead of paying full price. There is certainly nothing wrong with saving money on life's necessities and this is usually wise. The problem with this definition, though, is that a person can still have an irrational or unbiblical love of "stuff" while trying to be frugal. By saving money on groceries a person can then buy more of other things--more that is unnecessary. Is it really frugal to save fifteen cents on a box of macaroni but still to have a house filled with things bought at Salvation Army stores?

I think the greater ideal with frugality, and something a lot of people miss, is the ideal of not just paying less, but buying less and thus avoiding waste and avoiding becoming captive to "stuff." To me frugality is not spending less but in having less. So a frugal person doesn’t buy as much "stuff" (or more) at lower prices, but just learns to live with less "stuff." If you find that your efforts in frugality help you spend less but to have a house that is equally filled with "stuff," I'm not sure that you're really being frugal. A definition I felt hit the mark is this one: "It's about a simpler, less complicated lifestyle, not about being cheap. While those who put a frugal lifestyle into practice do tend to be thrifty, there is a method to their madness" (source). It goes on to say "People who practice frugal living tend to look for ways to save time as well as money, and generally prefer a slower, more laid back pace instead of the hectic 'rat race' life so many others lead."

This is not going to be a systematic theology of frugality. Rather, I just want to share a few thoughts that my wife and I have come up with as we've pondered it. When Aileen and I got married we had no money and this actually continued for the first five or six years of our marriage. It is only in the past few years that we've had any kind of disposable income, though the government seems to be finding ways of cutting into this with great zeal. This fact, coupled with my wife's Scottish heritage, meant that we spent very little money in the early years of a marriage. But lately, as we've had just a bit more money, we've begun to wonder just how free we should be with it. We've begun to ask whether frugality is a biblical concept or command. So this article shares just a few of our thoughts under some convenient headings.

The heart - I mentioned this already, but wanted to discuss it just a bit more as I think it is very important. I don’t know that there are many better barometers for our hearts than money. Whether you are spending too much or pinching every penny so hard that it bleeds, I think your attitude reflects something in your heart. If you spend too much perhaps you are reflecting greed or a bravado that rejects the fact that God expects us to be in control of our spending. If you pinch every penny, perhaps it shows that you live in fear or that you somehow think God will provide only through what may be excessive frugality. There is no guarantee that a frugal person is less addicted to money and less under the control of money than a person who spends all he has. Always we need to remember that it is God who provides for us and that He has promised never to forsake us. He will provide what we need and our confidence must be in Him, not in our own efforts. This is true of the great issues like salvation and sanctification, but also of the smaller issues like finances. So always look to the heart! If you find that your frugality has extended to life's necessities--that you do not buy what you need even if you have the money, or if you find that you are reluctant or stingy in giving money to the church or to others in need, you can be certain that your frugality has taken you captive.

Necessity - Many people who attempt to be frugal could probably get along just fine without being frugal. Thus I wonder if the amount of time it takes to scour the racks of thrift stores, clip coupons, search for deals online, and so on could be better spent in another enterprise. A man who brings in millions of dollars a year probably doesn’t need to have his wife work at McDonald’s to bring in $300/month and her time is doubtless better spent in some other way. I wonder if the same may be true for those who don’t absolutely need to be frugal. If God has given great blessing, maybe the time it takes to be very frugal can be spent doing something else. Instead of spending days hunting for the perfect and perfectly cheap cake pan so you can bake a cake and have people over to evangelize to them, perhaps it would be best to just buy it for full price and have the people over a couple of weeks earlier. The finances of some families dictate that great time and care must be given to each dollar, but I wonder if those with lots of money make a mockery of God's abundant provision when they act this way.

It seems to me that God has released some of us from worries that may concern others. For example, not every man can have the confidence I do that his wife will be faithful to him. I never worry that my wife will one day pack up and leave me for another guy. Yet for other men this may be a legitimate concern. It would be irrational for me to worry if my wife is ten minutes late arriving home from an appointment, but for other men this may be something they can legitimately worry about. Similarly, God has released some people from imminent concerns over finances. It makes no sense, then, for these people to act as if finances are still a huge concern and that they must be frugal with each and every dollar. I have known people who, though so rich they could not possibly come to the end of their finances, worry about the expenditure of a single dollar on something that is good and necessary. Surely there is no good reason for a person with such money to be too concerned about one dollar. Is this any different from a person with no money using credit to purchase something frivolous and something that will sink him further into debt?

Gleaning - As I thought about frugality I was drawn to the biblical concept of gleaning. In the Old Testament God commands that people who pick crops leave gleanings behind. Rather than picking the fields clean they are to leave portions that have fallen so the poor can follow behind and gather them. Of course the wealthy landowners would have wanted to pick these up and increase their profits, but God used gleaning as a way to provide for the poor. This made me think of wealthy people who often pick through thrift stores or who line up first for the big sales and wonder if the gleaning principles has something to say to us here. If we can easily afford $10 for a t-shirt, should we really take the last marked-down one on the rack when for another person this might make the difference between being able to afford it and not being able to?

Teach a man to fish - It has been my experience (and I say this carefully because I know this is certainly not always the case) that many people who are impoverished are this way because of poor financial decisions they have made or because they simply do not know how to take proper care of their finances. In the same way many wealthy people are wealthy because they have made wise financial decisions or because they really do know the best way to care for their money. Many people may be in a good financial position precisely because they have mastered the art of frugality. Where this is the case, it would surely be beneficial for these people to mentor others who are in financial difficult. It goes back to the old proverb of "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime." Rather than heading to the thrift stores for your own benefit, perhaps it would be wise and godly to take a friend who is in need and teach that person how to shop wisely, all the while ensuring that her heart is right before God.

I guess the long and short is that money can be as big an idol when you seek not to spend it as it can when you do nothing but spend it. Frugality in and of itself must not be an end in itself but must be a means to a greater end of bringing glory to God and of serving others. Ever and always it is a matter of the heart.

Comments (46) »


1. Jeri
April 30, 2007
10:34 AM

Tim, this was a great article! You have written quite pastorally lately…thanks for the reminder that we must always look to the heart. We cannot hear that exhortation too many times.


2. Elizabeth at A Biblical Home
April 30, 2007
11:32 AM

“To me frugality is not spending less but in having less.”

What a great quote! Totally the opposite of “frugal” people who have to make a purchase every time they see a sale.


3. James Reggio
April 30, 2007
11:44 AM

Thank you for sharing this, Tim. You did an excellent job at expressing your thoughts on the issue, and I appreciate the perspective you added, especially by applying the OT principle of gleaning.

I’ve always been troubled by wealthy Christian friends purchasing their entire wardrobe from thrift stores; they do it because it’s trendy, but I feel that they’re purchasing items which were donated with the intent of assisting somebody in need, which could hardly describe then. I’ll have review the concept of gleaning in Scripture and make a full application to the situation.


4. Jim Swindle
April 30, 2007
12:43 PM

Thanks for an excellent post, especially the comment about gleaning.

Here are a few other thoughts.
1. I have not found anywhere in the Bible that recommends trying to get things at a bargain. The Book of Proverbs recommends a dozen things that lead to having plenty/enough/no lack/fatness, but getting a bargain is not one of them. My grandfather was one of the most wisely frugal people I ever met. I can remember him tossing all of the sales ads into the trash before bringing the mail into the house. When he needed something, he’d look for an honest merchant, look for the best quality he could afford, and would gladly pay full price.
2. Some frugal people are also hoarders. It’s good to store something up for the future. It’s bad to store up things we’ll never use, when other people could use them. Such things can be put to better use by giving them away.
3. The Mennonites have a concept they call mutual aid. If my brother or sister in the Lord has a need, and I’m able to help, and there’s no good reason for me not to help, it’s my duty to help, and it’s the other person’s duty to accept the help.

Again, thanks for an excellent essay.


5. Susanna
April 30, 2007
1:01 PM

Tim,

I TOTALLY agree with you and think about what you have just written all the time…I think that, as you say, when seeking to be frugal, one can become obsessed with getting “cheap” stuff they really don’t need and it would have been a lot wiser to save the 15Cents or whatever and use it towards something else. Stuff, stuff, stuff can become just as much of an obsession when getting deals as when going out and buying a few things for a lot of money, etc, etc. Though I do think it is wise to seek deals on things we really NEED and spend time trying to find the best price, if we don’t need something, it is not good to have it…deal or no deal!!


6. Marc @ The Jonah Syndrome
April 30, 2007
1:02 PM

Have you ever talked with someone who at one time had PLENTY of money and because of conscious choices on their part (i.e. leaving the secular business world to join a ministry staff), now has very little?

The answers you’ll find are amazing. In regards to frugality, I’ll venture the following statement:

Frugality and the slavery to stuff keeps millions of people from pursuing a God exalting dream they had when were first converted.

I’ve seen it time and time again. People are saved by the grace of God and the fires of the heart are red hot and they have great dreams of being an instrument in the carpenter’s hand. And then stuff invades their life and before you know it, they’re 40 and stuck in a dead end job and won’t leave what they have to spread the Gospel in the world.

This post has so many ramifications, some of which I’m anxious for all of us bloggers to explore.


7. Luke
April 30, 2007
1:30 PM

Great post Tim.

This is a difficult issue as we who don’t have as much have a tendency to be more cirticial of those who do have much. I appreciate your ability to discuss this matter without being overly critical of those who do have a lot of money. This was well done. I would like to John Piper’s opinion. I think he’d agree with you as the “war time lifestyle” seems to be what you are explaining. Your thoughts?

Luke


8. Alex Moore
April 30, 2007
2:18 PM

Timely and quite relevant.

It is sad that in this Western civilization these ideas need be addressed, but, in my opinion, that is all the more reason to address them fully and frequently.

Imagine what it would be like for someone in the third world— say an impoverished lower-class citizen in Africa, India, or China— to hear about dillemas of an exclusively Western origin. Try to explain anorexia or bulemia to some of our impoverished brothers and sisters.

Furthermore, try to justify to these people mainline conservatism’s fixation with issues like homosexuality when the Bible, depending on your interpretation, has between two to approximately a dozen verses dealing with homosexuality, whereas there are approximately two thousand verses dealing with poverty.

Sometimes I fear that our distinct Western blend of religiosity might serve as a “stumbling block” to the “lowly”— that minority class (that actually makes up a majority of the world’s population) whom Christ refers to when he says, “Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me.”

Great of you to bring this up. It is convicting and very relevant!


9. thecuttingtruth
April 30, 2007
2:52 PM

only in america.

only in america - where almost everyone is in the top 95% of global affluence - do people have the luxury to opine on frugality with such lofty pontification and exquisite articulation.


10. Mark McGowan
April 30, 2007
3:28 PM

Thanks for an interesting and challenging article. I tend to use the word frugality more negatively, but recognise the more positive use. A concern I have about evangelical frugality is when it is excessively applied to church life, resulting in a culture of ugliness and a denial of the place of beauty in the work of the gospel. This can go from allowing property to fall into disrepair, to refusing to replace dilapidated furniture or tattered songbooks. This can co-exist with extreme generosity in other areas. How far should we resist the sanctification of the “make do and mend” mentality in Christian work, and on what grounds?

There is a quotation somewhere about the pride of a certain philospher peeping through the holes in his carpet. This is another aspect worth considering: frugality, like many other things, can become a source of pride, leading to a judgemental spirit. Depending on the culture, Christians are judged by how they spend their money, what kind of house they live in, whether or not they eat out in restaurants, or wear fashionable clothes (not necessarly expensive ones). There is a room here for the exercise of Christian liberty, where each is answerable to the Lord. When however, would the leadership of a church be justified in challenging a member personally about their perceived excesses? Should this be left to pulpit teaching or are there occasions when intervention might be called for?


11. Alex Moore
April 30, 2007
5:56 PM

To respond to “thecuttingtruth”

“only in america - where almost everyone is in the top 95% of global affluence - do people have the luxury to opine on frugality with such lofty pontification and exquisite articulation.”

First, remember that you are addressing a Canadian.

Moving on…

You have clearly taken a similar approach to it that I have; you were much more concise than I was. However I feel your comment was missing some critical elements.

Do you, sir (ma’am?) have anything to offer this conversation other than your own brand of “lofty pontification and exquisite articulation?” I would suggest you set your thesaurus on the shelf for a moment so you can, without distraction, justify your occupying space on the world wide web by offering some substance rather than pithy bickering.

As I said earlier, I agree with the premise that even having to preach on fiscal responsibility is almost exclusively a Western phenomenon. This is supported by the fact that the richest one percent of the world’s population is found in North America.

But, instead of grumbling from an ivory tower about how this occurs “only in America,” I would suggest that Western greed, gluttony, affluence, what have you, should be preached on MORE THAN ANYTHING and *without* bickering.

This is a great thing that Challies is taking on this cause. Let’s get behind him and support him in this effort, rather than provide commentary from the peanut gallery.


12. afrikaner
April 30, 2007
6:04 PM

If only the church would practice these principles when it comes to building it’s buildings (of worship?). From the perspective of someone not living in north america and who gathers in a home church setting the observing of the money poured into buildings and decking them out is sickening.


13. April
April 30, 2007
6:06 PM

Great article, Tim. I think stewardship is the most important financial concept for Christians, and frugality is a part of that. Got anymore on stewardship, Tim?


14. david
April 30, 2007
6:48 PM

If frugal means spending wisely, we should all be frugal. If frugal means penny-pinching, it’s completely wrong for wealthy people (by “wealthy” I mean anyone who has a full stomach, clothes, and a roof over their head and still has a few dollars left over) to worry about every penny spent. We should be spending our money.

Every dollar spent, even frivolously, feeds someone else. Everything we buy was made by someone who was paid to do it. I get tired of hearing how money spent on some luxury could have been given away, as though the cash just evaporated to no benefit. A few years ago I worked on a $1,000,000 house (the average house here is $100,000 or less). It was clearly more than anyone needs. Was that money wasted? I and many others made a lot of money building that house. I guess the owner could have just given it to some charity, but instead, he spent it benefiting:

  • The general contractor and crew
  • Plumbers
  • Electricians
  • Bricklayers
  • Drywall hangers
  • Roofers

That’s only the actual builders. I can go on to list the lumber yard, ready-mix, hardware stores, etc. Then there are the brick manufacturers, loggers, tool and equipments suppliers and manufactures, and I still haven’t reached the original source of all the materials involved.

The point is that people only make money when others spend it. There are definitely many frequent opportunities for us to give to special needs, and we ought not to neglect them. But far more good is done by just spending the wealth God gives us.


15. Alex Moore
April 30, 2007
7:58 PM

David,

“The point is that people only make money when others spend it. There are definitely many frequent opportunities for us to give to special needs, and we ought not to neglect them. But far more good is done by just spending the wealth God gives us.”

It is true that, in order to prevent an economic collapse, an active marketplace is necessary. From an economic standpoint, you are correct.

However I cringe at the notion that we might fulfill our christian duties by being an overly-engaged spender in today’s corporate-dominated profit-incentive U.S. economy.

“Far more good” is done by spending wealth God gives us *instead* of giving to special needs?

You see, David, when I give to a special need, 100 percent of my giving reaches the needy (obviously when you give to non-profit organizations, a percentage is eaten-up in administrative costs).

But when I “give” by spending the “wealth” God gives me, two bad things occur: (1) I acquire more things that 95 percent of the world goes without, and (2) a portion (if not a majority) of the money I spend is consumed as profit.

Fifty years ago, a white-collar CEO earned $40 for every $1 earned by his blue collar workers. Now, a CEO earns $400 on every $1 earned by his workers.

And you mean to tell me that I’m meeting a need and acting out my Christian duty? Do the math: 99.9975 percent makes its way to the wealthiest in the nation.

Here’s a statistic out of Pres. Jimmy Carter’s book, Our Endangered Values. The richest one percent in America owns more wealth than the rest of the world combined.

And you’re telling me that I should spend spend spend because I can— and should— be lining the pockets of the world’s richest in Christ’s name?

Now, I understand your point— the working class earns its wages from “buying American.” BUT, many economists will tell you that corporate America is hurting the working class at a greater rate than a bunch of well-intentioned “buy American” folks can help them.

I know this can sound like a cop-out, but since this is a Christian forum, and you make quite a strong claim, I believe it is certainly appropriate to ask you to provide verses in which Christ commands his followers that “far more good is done by just spending the wealth God gives us.”


16. Nancy
April 30, 2007
8:32 PM

I seem to remember somewhere in the Bible that God helps those who help themselves. I totally disagree that we should depend on God to take care of us.
I don’t think we have to live like a pauper to be God loving, either.
I do shop at Goodwill, and some might think I am “rich” by looking at the house I own, but I am far from rich, I just spend wisely, and not on things that depriciate in value.
You sound a little judgmental.


17. Lindsey @ enjoythejourney
April 30, 2007
8:33 PM

For me, I do not focus so much on being frugal as I focus on being CONTENT with whatever I have. Much or little, abundance or shortfall….and all things in between.


18. Nancy
April 30, 2007
8:33 PM

I seem to remember somewhere in the Bible that God helps those who help themselves. I totally disagree that we should depend on God to take care of us.
I don’t think we have to live like a pauper to be God loving, either.
I do shop at Goodwill, and some might think I am “rich” by looking at the house I own, but I am far from rich, I just spend wisely, and not on things that depriciate in value.
You sound a little judgmental.


19. carissa
April 30, 2007
8:37 PM

i liked this article a lot; it’s really helpful for me, a poor college student. i feel i should be frugal right now, but i’m not always sure how my spending habits should look if/when i get older and possibly have more money to spare. good thoughts, thanks!


20. Cat
April 30, 2007
8:50 PM

Oh my goodness, I’ve been thinking about this very topic for several months now. I have recently begun trying to discipline myself to be super frugal, though this time around (we were frugal out of necessity several years ago) I am finding myself to be a different person and my approach to frugality is different. I guess the brief way to put it is that I’m less “about the shopping.”

Here’s the post:
http://20dollarsaday.livejournal.com/15145.html

I found you via the marvelous Meredith at “Like Merchant Ships.”


21. April
April 30, 2007
9:17 PM

Nancy, it was Benjamin Franklin who said “God helps those who helps themselves.” However, the Bible tells us “And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.” Philippians 4:19. So absolutely, we should trust God to take care of us as we obey His word—including working, saving, spending and giving to the glory of God.


22. Tiffany Johnson
April 30, 2007
9:51 PM

Thanks for this post, Tim. Many good points.

I do question one conclusion, though. You said, “To me frugality is not spending less but in having less.”

Does God exalt being poor (or living with”less”)as a virtue? There are both wealthy and poor men in the Bible who were God-honoring. We should be willing to give up all for Him, but we don’t necessarily have to live in a two bedroom house rather than a five bedroom house with a pool to accomplish that. Who is to determine what is “less”? Do we feel more spiritual if we live with “less” than the average joe? What if we live with “more” and honor the Lord with “more”? I have seen this done. We can honor the Lord in plenty or in want.

You’re right about it being a heart issue. We need a willingness to use our things to advance his kingdom and bless others…keeping in mind that if the Lord gives us alot, it is to be used for His purposes. I’m a pastor’s wife. We don’t have a ton..we’re just average, but we have tried to make our home as comfortable and inviting for all the many who enter. We have a decent T.V. and a comfy couch with lots of seating for others to enjoy. We serve soda and good coffee to guests and try to give them delicious meals. We don’t serve bread and water. : ) Get my point?

Let’s prioritize our lives so that stuff doesn’t dominate us (i.e. mothers working in order to have luxuries, spending tons of time searching for a deal rather than discipling, evangelizing, etc). We should make sure we give till it hurts and follow biblical principles regarding wealth, but not feel that we must live with “less” to be godly. It is a heart issue…one that can’t be taken lightly.

Whether we are poor or rich, we should thank the Lord for what we have. He has “given us all things richly to enjoy”.


23. Carol at MagistraMater
April 30, 2007
9:55 PM

Just wondering…are books exempt from this discussion?


24. Tim Challies
April 30, 2007
9:58 PM

“Just wondering…are books exempt from this discussion?”

Is there a question behind the question? If there is, feel free to ask it overtly…


25. Shawna
April 30, 2007
9:58 PM

Although I agree with a lot of the argument in this, I find it a stretch to apply the biblical principle of gleaning to shopping at thrift stores. The thrift stores mentioned above have very clear mission statements that have nothing to do with providing cheap clothing to impoverished people. The mission of Goodwill Industries is to provide jobs for disadvantaged, uneducated, and disabled people. Their website and commercials make it very clear that when you donate AND shop at their thrift stores, you are helping to fulfill their mission. The Salvation Army also states on their website that shopping in their stores helps to fund their mission of adult rehabilitation. I do not think there is any reason to feel guilty about shopping at thrift stores. Those of us who do are helping to fund charitable organizations, who in turn help others.


26. afrikaner
April 30, 2007
11:44 PM

David made some very good points about how an economy works. Surely there must be a biblical worldview of economics taking place. Wealth horded does nobody any good. Building within our means - and that for a chief executive within an oil company (am speaking of a friend) may mean building a larger house than another who is on social welfare. No problem…. As David says that helps all those who work for a master. No problem - thoroughly biblical. There is a problem though when resources are limited - eg when Americans consume so much of the world’s oil reserves in their SUVs, or where electricity is squandered in lighting above and beyond what is necessary, or water or timber is harvested without any thought for tomorrow or your neighbour. I guess what I am driving at - love must encompass our whole worldview - doing that which is good for the other person. So if in our abundance and good life we rape and pillage anothers backyard, market, resource, labour market, etc we are doing evil….. and this to it’s shame is what much of corporate America has done. So in order to help preserve another in love we need to be frugal - so be it.


27. Rose Mawhorter
May 1, 2007
12:28 AM

This issue that I have put some substantial thought into. I think that stewardship basically means using our money for the kingdom of God as best as we can. You are absolutely right that frugality is not a virtue in and of its self but rather a means to an end.

Your comments about gleaning are interesting. I think that might be more applicable in areas where thrift stores are scarce or the quality in the thrift stores was poor. In my area there is tonnes of good second hand stuff. The other thing is that there are not really, truly poor people around me. I would much rather save money on things like clothing and household items and give my money to charity to feed truly poor people.

I think that the heart of Christian frugality lies in Jesus’ command to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. When we really try to live out this command then we see that treating ourselves instead of helping others is selfish and unchristlike. Another important verse is 1 John 3:17. John asks, “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him”? You can read an essay that my husband wrote about these on his website at http://joel.mawhorter.org/http://joel.mawhorter.org/loveyourneighbor.html/

Like you said, there are certainly times where spending money makes more sense for the kingdom of God. Someone that makes $100000/yr probably shouldn’t grow their own food or mow their own yard if they can be making more money in the time that they save by not doing those things. On the other hand, if this person’s wife stays at home with their kids then maybe these would be good chores to take on. Doing frugal things even when you have the money to do otherwise can be an great testimony to those that you live around. It stands apart from our lavish society and shows solidarity with the poor. Christians need to carefully think out how they can most serve God with all their time and money and the example that they are setting.

I have also put together an website on frugality that you might be interested in looking at. My goal is to help Christians find ways to save their money for those in need and to help people that genuinely need to learn how to be frugal so that they can live. You can see that site here: http://www.radicalfrugality.info/ .

Thanks again for your thoughts.


28. david
May 1, 2007
1:40 AM

Alex,

Some things I did not say:

“… we might fulfill our christian duties by being an overly-engaged spender in today’s corporate-dominated profit-incentive U.S. economy.”

“‘Far more good’ is done by spending wealth God gives us *instead* of giving to special needs?”

Yes, I do mean to tell you that spending does meet needs, just as I illustrated.

I don’t need a Scripture passage to prove this any more than I need a verse declaring that the square of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the two sides.

Concerning the rest of your comment, this is not the thread for discussing the struggles of the proletariat vs. the bourgeoisie, or Jimmy Carter’s dubious expertise on economics.


29. euri
May 1, 2007
6:31 AM

Cutting Truth said:

only in america - where almost everyone is in the top 95% of global affluence - do people have the luxury to opine on frugality with such lofty pontification and exquisite articulation.

So, cutting truth, are you implying that women working two jobs - washing dishes and cleaning toilets - to keep their kids in school are in luxury? Or that someone still living in a trailer after Katrina is living in luxury? Or that someone living with daily pain because they couldn’t afford health insurance and are on a waiting list for surgery is in luxury? Not everyone in America is in that top one percent, and the cult of consumerism that drives spending habits while lining the pockets of the super-rich is destroying lives and destroying the country. Many people live in an illusion of middle-class wealth because they can afford cheap, readily available imported goods.

Those who choose to be frugal, managing their income and expenditure with care, are often the ones who give generously to charity and whose minimal consumption makes their lifestyle low-impact by default.

I think you’ll find that most frugal people are also acutely aware of the plight of the world’s poorest people. Get off your high horse.


30. Mrs. Damian Garcia
May 1, 2007
7:21 AM

I can’t add much to this great conversation really, I just wanted to share my humble thought. I have often wondered if the overindulgence that the typical person might have is so that those who have less can benefit from it. What I mean is that by having several children I find it difficult to find good clothing within a decent price range. By going to thrift stores and garage sales, where people throw out thier unwanted, I am blessed and God provides clothes for my family.

I do however disagree with two things. One is the hording. I have read on a couple blogs about someoen going to the store and buying 20 cans of sauce so that it last until the next sale. I often wonder if they realize that it comes across as not being frugal but greedy. I take what I need when I find something. I don’t want to take what might have been meant to bless someoen else. If there are 5 shirts all in the sizes of my girls, I know that was meant for me (like yesterday!) but otherwise I think about what God wants me to have and I leave the rest. Greediness is nasty. Second, I think most people think of frugal as saving money. I believe in simple and frugal living. I have it written on a list of my aspirations. Simple living is being content with less, frugal is saving money the best you can. At least to me this is what they mean. I am not a pack rat so I find simple living the most beautiful to live. The less clutter and stuff, the more content I am. Some people don’t understand how can my husband and I live in a 1100 sq foot home with 6 children but I tell them that in 3rd world countries my home is a mansion. It is all in the perspective you have about it.

Thanks for a great post!

Mrs. Damian Garcia


31. Carrie
May 1, 2007
7:57 AM

This was an interesting post, Tim - it is not often I read about the negatives of frugality from a Christian perspective. I agree that frugality taken to an extreme can become an idol.

However, I would love to see a post on the positives of frugality, or maybe just good stewardship in general. I feel that many Christians (especially here in the USA) have become too much like the world, and could be “smarter” about spending their money.

I always think about it in a group setting. In my church, if 200 people (couples) could save $50 per month by shopping wisely (sales, packing lunches, etc) and then gave just half that savings ($25) to a missions project, that would be $5000 per month to missions. And I am not talking about washing out baggies everyday, but just making some minor adjustments to our spending.

A great discussion - I would love to see more.


32. Carrie
May 1, 2007
8:11 AM

Ya know, I had to come back and check my math in my first comment because the numbers seem hard to believe.

Did you know that $5000 per month could purchase 1250 Bibles (


33. Tracy
May 1, 2007
9:43 AM

Where I feel Tim has made a really good point that I think most readers can agree with is how we use our TIME as regards saving money. Consider some quite wealthy friends of ours who go garage shopping every weekend to find bargains. They spend a minimum of half a day on this venture. What better way could that time be spent in ministering to others, such as working with a church soup kitchen when most of the stuff they find they don’t even need anyway? Yet they pride themselves in their bargain-shopping as if it is a moral superlative to do it.
Young mothers who spend an hour or more a week clipping coupons to save a few dollars on groceries (MAYBE - often the store brands are the real bargains) would be wiser to spend the same time playing with or reading to their children.


34. HEN
May 1, 2007
11:09 AM

Since many, “frugal” people love to discuss the distinction between a need and a want, consider the following:

Are you living paycheck to paycheck? That is to say, if you lose your job next week will you not be able to pay the rent?

—- Then you NEED to shop at thrift stores / purchase secondhand (if the NEED to purchase an item arises).

Do you, “flip” real estate every two years for a sizable profit as a way to fatten your savings account and yet continue to shop secondhand / thrift?

—-Then you WANT to shop at a thrift store / purchase secondhand, you don’t NEED to.

Let’s not be hypocrites about the needs vs wants sermon. For many thrift store shopping is a WANT rather than a NEED.

I will be honest, sometimes I almost don’t want to donate my used items to our local thrift store because so many who don’t NEED to purchase thrift shop thrift. If I knew that my very worn pair of designer shoes for example would be purchased by someone that truly NEEDED to buy thrift I would donate my military-size duffle bags worth of used clothing and apparel to the thrift store rather than paying an excess baggage fee to transport it to a third world country, when there are impoverished right here in our own backyard who could use those items. Unfortunately, what is happening is that many who don’t NEED to purchase donated items do. Can you afford to buy that blouse, shoes, dress, sheets, couch or curtains at a non-thrift store without it endangering the financial welfare of your family? Then stop being RIDICULOUS and go to WalMart or Sears or Dillards and buy it there. Leave the thrift stores and the garage sales for those families that have no other choice other than to look through other people’s garbage for a dirty pair of very used sneakers because the soles of their sneakers each have a hole in them the size of half dollars. What’s happening today? The working poor can’t even afford to buy at a thrift store anymore because prices are so inflated. $39.99 for a stained and partly torn winter coat? Are you kidding me? For that price, that very customer could go to Walmart and buy a NEW winter coat. So who is the thrift store priced for today? People driving new cars and SUV’s and/or ebayers (in many cases 6 and 1/2 dozen of the other other) Being that this is the average shopper at a thrift store (and not the working poor mother or father struggling every day to put milk on the table) I would say that the prices are well within reason since my pair of shoes will most likely end up on ebay as a buy it now for $99.95.

Just think, if you were to put that pretty little thrift-store sweater back on the rack is there even a remote chance that someone who doesn’t have a sweater could purchase it? Yes? Then get back in your car, head to Walmart or Penneys or Steinmart and let the person who took the bus or walked (because they can’t afford to by a car) buy that used sweater they’ve been saving for by picking up penny by penny from the ground.

Frugal is one thing. Wanting to shop thrift and NEEDING to shop thrift is another, however you want to rationalize it.


35. Marianne
May 1, 2007
12:43 PM

I have not read all the comments so I don’t know if this has been mentioned but I have noticed on several blogs, forums that these women buy items at yard sales, Goodwill, etc and then resell the items on ebay and make a tidy profit. In my opinion they are buying things that people who really cannot afford to pay retail need to have a chance to purchase. I have no problem with anyone buying from yard sales, Goodwill but don’t buy something you cannot use and then resell it to make a profit.


36. Mrs. Damian Garcia
May 1, 2007
1:52 PM

Marianne and Hen both made great observations. I recently was at the Thrift store looking for a dress shirt for my son. We limit our clothing to between 4-8 outfits per person in our home and he didn’t have one dress shirt anymore (I gave them to the thrift store!) I was looking at the price of a t shirt that my son would love but I was not willing to pay the amount. I asked the lady who worked there how come a simple tshirt with a design on the front was the same as a dress shirt that was really nice. Her answer: they anticipate people who come in and buy stuff for Ebay! They know that those people will buy that shirt for that amount and turn around and resell it for a profit. That made me a little mad, you know? I don’t sell stuff on Ebay nor do I buy it for resale at a yard sale. I give almost all my stuff to this same thrift store that I shop at. I know some people make a good dollar doing this and while some people do it with honesty (using a item and then reselling it) there are those who are running up the cost at the thrift stores just to stuff their pockets. As I said before, greediness is nasty!


37. Kim K
May 1, 2007
2:08 PM

Oh puhlease! Are we supposed to shop at stores according to our income tax brackets? I shop at thrift stores regularly and they will not run out of inventory any time soon. The commenter who mentioned paying 39.99 for a dirty coat is obviously shopping at the wrong place. What I think is great, besides price, is variety. I can pick up a pair of jeans I like that are out of production, find a couple of pieces of Corelle from my 1970’s pattern, and even a few great books for my home library. And all at one place! Are any of these things “needed”. Of course not, but our homes are filled with things we don’t need.

Buying used merchandise seems to be a matter of pride. There are plenty of poor people who wouldn’t dream of walking into a thrift store - just like there are plenty of wealthy people who would never shop at Wal-Mart. In my family we have just so much to spend. If I save a few bucks in one area, I’ll be able to have more to spend in another area.

Shopping to feed a never ending appetite for “stuff” and being frugal to the point of being stingey are opposite extremes. Certainly there is plenty of room in the middle to use good sense and to be good stewards of all the resources given to us.


38. When Is Enough, Enough?
May 1, 2007
2:46 PM

I appreciate Mrs. Garcia’s post about thrift stores and the raising of prices due to Ebay sellers (I didn’t know this). Although I have never done what she has mentioned, I know others who do - especially getting stuff from Freecycle or Craigslist and then reselling the items (which is also why I don’t give my stuff through those avenues). I never really felt quite right about their choices, but reading how this affects those with such tight budgets (including myself) makes me feel very strongly now.

I do some couponing, although I am not fanatical about it as I cook from scratch out of necessity and most coupons are for overpriced and processed items. I have visited a few sites that post pictures of women’s pantry “stock” that is abhorrent to say the least. The greed of accumulation could help so many poor people out there. Most of these products will be out-of-date by the time they actually use them. Pictures of hundreds of toothbrushes, HBA items, etc. Not everyone is like this, of course, but it’s so sad to see that some are. When I go to the store with a coupon, I am sure to only buy 1 or 2 items. I feel it important to leave something behind for someone else who may really need that item. There have been many times I have gone looking for a coupon product and they are totally gone. Is it because of the mega-bargain-shopper who feels it is their right to have 20 or more of that item?

I am at the point in my life where I don’t want to accumulate at all anymore. I have enough and have more than what I need compared to any third-world person. And my life is very modest compared to many in the U.S. A tiny home, a beat-up Toyota, just enough food, no new clothing - but it is all still quite ENOUGH. I will use what I have until it is all worn out. I am often quite embarrassed by the society we live in. So many people feel the need to bargain-shop excessively. Whether it’s regular stores, coupon items or the thrift stores, if you buy without it being a true need, you probably have a problem (best not to keep justifying your acquired bargains).

I really appreciate your original post and hope this makes people think of their choices more. Greed comes in so many forms. You have affected my heart.


39. Marie
May 1, 2007
5:04 PM

In defense of E Bay sellers (I am not one) -

who are we to judge whether this is appropriate or not?

They bought it honestly.

They resell it honestly.

Maybe they make $5. They are rewarded for their effort, their time, and their acumen.

If you donated the item to the Salvation Army, Salvation Army benefited. If SA chose to do so, they could have sold it on EBay, too. If they decided not to, whether it’s because it’s not their business model, they can’t handle it, or they aren’t aware of something’s value, well, then Mrs. Smith down the street was able to make a few bucks.

I doubt the very wealthy are doing this. It’s probably the people down the street who are trying to make ends meet, like most of us.

Another beneficiary is the buyer on EBay, who obviously felt they were getting a good deal.


40. Euri
May 1, 2007
6:00 PM

Well said, ‘Enough is Enough’ and ‘Marie’.

There is a greener alternative to buying new for those who don’t feel they should be thrift shopping: Recycle/Consignment stores, where they sell secondhand good clothing as a business, and ebay. That way you aren’t contributing to the wasteful production of new products.

Hen, most of those cheap Walmart products are MADE IN CHINA or INDIA where they don’t have environmental and labor laws like we do. Women and children are exposed to lethal cotton pesticides, children work in fields, and the land is denuded by overgrazing for that cheap wool. Political prisoners work waist-deep in tanning vats to make that cheap leather. (this is a fact: see Harry Wu, “Troublemaker”) Then imported on ships that leak fuel into our oceans.

We just need to STOP BUYING JUNK. Make it do, wear it out, use it up or do without.


41. Marsha
May 1, 2007
6:57 PM

If you want to donate your good used items to the poor, don’t donate them to Goodwill or Salvation Army. Donate them to a charity that GIVES the items to the needy, and doesn’t sell them. I’m not against GW or SA, and sometimes donate items to them, but they sell the items to support their programs. Don’t give to them if you’re not okay with this. You should also keep your eyes and ears open at church and around your community. Pray to be led to the right person to give the items to. This works for me all the time.


42. hen
May 1, 2007
9:33 PM

Euri,

I am well aware that Walmart is an evil empire. I was just using Walmart as an example, just like I used many other retailers as an example as I think Walmart may be more common/known across our country rather than perhaps a Macy’s, Kmart, or Nationals which may not operate in all parts of our country and as such some readers may not be aware that such retailers exist.


43. Meredith
May 2, 2007
12:02 AM

I’m sorry that this discussion of frugality has taken such an ugly turn.

Tim, I thought you raised a lot of great points about the heart issues of money. A few of your statements made me uncomfortable, which is always a good thing. It’s helps to be sharpened by other Christians, if only because we need to reexamine our own idols from time to time.

Much of what you call frugal I would call tightfisted. Good stewardship and economy don’t always have such an either/or approach. There’s a large gap between profiteering and making a budget stretch from one paycheck to the next. I suspect most homemakers online fall somewhere in the middle.


44. When Is Enough, Enough?
May 2, 2007
1:33 AM

Marie, not sure if you are replying to me or not. If so, perhaps you missed the point I was trying to make about people taking “free or nearly free” items (which people on Freecycle or Craigslist are thinking you truly need) only to turn around and make a profit on it. I feel that is not right at all & certainly not fair to someone who may truly need that item. I like Marsha’s view on giving to a charity that will use the items instead of selling them for a profit.

I think a strong point of this article is for us to think about choices we make, and to make sure we are being the best stewards of all we have & checking our hearts to make sure we are not being greedy or hoarders as well. Many in America have houses full of stuff - if they didn’t why is there so much talk about simplifying, decluttering, etc. if there is not such a need? It’s because many of us just have way too much.

“When is enough, enough?” for any of us? When does it become time to stop focusing on acquiring and start spending your life towards more valuable things? None of us will be taking these so-called “treasures” with us in the end.


45. Marie
May 2, 2007
3:49 AM

When is Enough, Enough -

I did think you were talking about EBay. But to further the discussion, I’ll say, why can I not sell what was given to me if I need the money?

(Just so you don’t think I’m being defensive, I don’t do that).

But just as a for instance, if a neighbor gave me a good used refrigerator, and I maybe figured out that my current one suited our needs better, can I not sell it for $50 and maybe avoid charging the gasoline this month?

If we look at the biblical principle of gleaning, say I gleaned a few containers of wheat. I’m not going to eat up all those containers. I might take half to the open market and sell them, and use the proceeds to buy oil, or some cloth, or some soap. Would that be wrong?

Obviously, I don’t think so.

If I had houses and lands and money in the bank, I couldn’t be bothered selling a free fridge for $50. It’s only people who need the money, I think, who do that.

Just my opinion.


46. david
May 2, 2007
9:53 AM

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread and kept it mostly civil, but I think it has departed from the point of Tim’s article, so I’m closing it.


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