I am currently reading Dave Harvey’s new book, When Sinners Say “I Do”. The book is just excellent. I’ll provide a review of it shortly, but for now wanted to post a humorous little excerpt I enjoyed:
I’m way too masculine to enjoy Jane Austen. Now, I realize that women usually read that as, “I’m not smart enough to get Jane Austen,” and I suppose there may be some truth to that. But even if guys like me don’t get the point, I’ve got to respect any author who can actually capture the imagination of an audience without mentioning a grenade-launcher. Even once. And I’m still way too masculine to enjoy Jane Austen.In a touch of divine humor, God has given me a wife and two daughters who love everything Austen-esque. Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems to me that the plot is always the same. The only difference I can see is the name of the mansion.
If you’ve never read a Jane Austen or seen a movie adaptation, let me save you some time. Here’s the plot. Start with an anxious, unmarried woman in late eighteenth-century England whose mom is wound up even tighter than she is. Bring in a clueless guy, also usually rich and unexplainably single, who doesn’t know he needs to temperamental unmarried woman to make him normal. Throw in some eccentric characters, frilly clothes, a formal ball, and lots of soggy English countryside. End with a deliriously happy wedding, leaving the distinct impression that this could will never know anything but harmonious marital bliss. Cut to the credits, cue the violins, go buy the soundtrack. That about sums it up.
Why doesn’t anything happen in Jane Austen after the wedding? What about sequels? Here are a few post-wedding Austen stories I’d like to see:
Sense and Sensibility, Episode II - I Miss My Mom
Pride and Prejudice - The Sequel: Darcy’s Hunting Buddies Move In
Emma Returns: The Matchmaker Strikes AgainI know…not likely. That’s why I prefer guy flicks. They end at the right spot—usually when somebody dies. A Western never ends before the two main characters face off in the street, guns blazing. War movies don’t end just as the bombing raid is taking off. And sports movies don’t end until you see how the big game turned out. But in the world of Jane Austen, stories end at the altar, just when reality is about to come knocking. I don’t get it.
Comments (45) »
1. Kelly
July 11, 2007
2:43 PM
*sigh*
Obviously he’s never read Persuasion…
2. Maria
July 11, 2007
3:01 PM
TOO FUNNY!!! I love Austen, but everything he said is so very true and I can totally understand why a guy wouldn’t get it… However, as far as predictibility goes, I can usually guess the end of action films before they end as well…
3. Scott
July 11, 2007
3:29 PM
That is funny! My wife loves Jane Austen. She thought I was mocking her making her read this. However, I actually enjoy the movies as a sort of comic relief. And I suppose I have a bit of a soft side, but I’d never read the books.
4. Tim H.
July 11, 2007
3:41 PM
I have three sisters, and thus Pride and Prejudice is oft discussed around my house. At my conservative Christian college the young women swoon about Mr. Darcy. I finally watched the modern rendition of the film, and I was definitely under-whelmed. That was all Mr. Darcy was? My sister said (albeit tongue-in-cheek) that girls like him because he’s “Tall, dark, and handsome”. But he didn’t seem like that great of a guy.
5. Tim Challies
July 11, 2007
3:45 PM
“My sister said (albeit tongue-in-cheek) that girls like him because he’s “Tall, dark, and handsome”. But he didn’t seem like that great of a guy.”
Most of the Austen men seem a lot like every character ever played by Hugh Grant - kind of good-looking, but unsure of themselves, stuttering and oblivious to almost everything life has to offer. The women tend to be much stronger, even if they are flawed too.
6. Marc Backes
July 11, 2007
3:55 PM
Tim,
Definitely want to read your thoughts on the book. It was a great read for me. I posted my amateur review over at my blog.
Probably one of the best books I’ve read on marriage to date…
But it looks like you are feeling that way as well!
7. dbro
July 11, 2007
3:58 PM
My wife recently cajoled me into watching Pride and Prejudice with her.
What utter agony. This was the BBC produced version, you know, the one that is like 36 hours long?
I was amazed as I watched her laugh and weep at this silly movie ( I wept too, but only out of self-pity). Nothing better reveals the differences between man and woman than this movie. She was entranced and enthralled- I was bored and listless.
Only after this experience was complete did I learn that there is a Hollywood version of the film which inflicts the entire torture in less than two hours.
8. Jason
July 11, 2007
4:11 PM
I once read War and Peace as kind of a lark. I got my wife to read it too. We decided that it is kind of a mix of Tom Clancy and Jane Austen. So if you want to tell your wife that you’ve read something with mushy romance but still enjoy some good war stories you can check this out. Plus, it’s got a great story about one man’s spiritual journey.
9. lisa
July 11, 2007
4:23 PM
But in the world of Jane Austen, stories end at the altar, just when reality is about to come knocking. I don’t get it.
Of course men don’t get it! *snicker*
In Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales, a knight whose life is forfeited to a woman tells the knight, “I will grant you life if you can tell me what things it is that women most desire.”
The man soon realizes that his doom is merely delayed:
He sought in every house and every place where he hoped to find favor in order to learn what things women most love; But he reached no lad where he could find two people who were in agreement with each other on this matter.
10. lisa
July 11, 2007
4:28 PM
In other words, once you guys figure out what women most desire, you won’t get it. :-D
And what we most desire really can depend on our mood. :-/
11. Dave @ Banannery Public
July 11, 2007
5:08 PM
What men most desire is a woman in a good mood. :-/
12. Levi
July 11, 2007
6:50 PM
Funny, I just posted on Jane Austen. I’m a conflicted fan. While I find her stories charming and romantic, the underlying class system is a little disturbing.
13. DeeDee
July 11, 2007
8:38 PM
Oh….this is such a tease. I’ve been wanting to order this book, but I’ve been waiting to get to our homeschool convention to pick it up there without shipping. It’s this weekend….I’m really looking forward to reading this book.
As far as Jane Austen, please don’t use Hugh Grant as your model! I think he was the worst cast Austen character EVER! You have to watch “Emma” to see why women swoon at Austen heroes. Mr. Knightly is far from stuttering and unsure. As well as Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. Even in Sense & Sensibility it was really Colonel Brandon who was the hero to me. Austen’s wit and humor are what really attract me to her. I love witty dialogue in a novel!
My highschool daughter is doing a literature course on Jane Austen novels with Peter J. Leithart’s “Miniatrues & Morals: The Christian Novels of Jane Austen”. Leithart makes no qualms about being a man who really likes Austen. His first chapter is entitled, “Real Men Read Austen”.
Thanks for the little peak into the book Tim!
14. lisa
July 11, 2007
8:45 PM
Dave wrote: What men most desire is a woman in a good mood.
…so that made me laugh. :-D
15. Wayne
July 11, 2007
9:01 PM
That’s a pretty good post.
But doesn’t the Bible end with a marriage? :-)
16. Jabbok
July 11, 2007
9:40 PM
Ok, but have you seen Transformers yet?
17. Maggie
July 11, 2007
10:24 PM
Okay, as a Jane Austen addict this may take a few lines :-)
Clearly, the author has watched only one Austen story done several times, as Pride and Prejudice is the only one with the uptight overbearing mother. At least three Austen heroines’ mothers are dead (in Persuasion, Emma, and Mansfield Park), and the mom in Sense and Sensibility drives her daughter crazy by being overly emotional and pretty much bohemian….
It’s really unfair to describe Jane Austen as though she wrote nothing more than cheezy modern romance novels! You have to read / watch Jane Austen for more than the romantic style to appreciate it. She writes a satire of her times. They are not just fairy tale stories, but novels based in the bitter reality that a woman of her age needed to “marry well” to survive. The beauty of her (arguably) most famous and beloved work, Pride and Prejudice, is not that Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy marry at the end, but that in the midst of their acquaintance, they both realize how wrongly they have behaved, how judgmental they have been, and repent of it. It is only when they are both humble enough to put each other first that they are ready to marry, and *that* is certainly a lesson worth learning…
18. Rick
July 12, 2007
12:27 AM
Amen to all these male comments, minus the sick few who claim to enjoy Jane Austin.
DBro- run from the hollywood version as well. It might be 2 hours, but it feels like 36 just the same.
19. mpethe
July 12, 2007
8:57 AM
What a timely post…
2 new Austen based films coming soon:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/
thejaneaustenbookclub/
http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/
becomingjane/
Sorry men. Sorry.
20. Davey
July 12, 2007
11:26 AM
This is for the men:
Dr. Leithart’s Miniatures and Morals: The Christian Novels of Jane Austen. Pay special attention to the first chapter title :) … “Real Men Read Jane Austen.”
21. erin
July 12, 2007
1:16 PM
Way to go, Maggie! You said just what I wanted to say! This author is completely reductive about Jane Austen, but since criticism of Austen does not seem to be the focus of Harvey’s work, I’ll give the guy a break. :)
Oh, and DeeDee, I totally agree with you about Hugh Grant; I usually love the characters he plays, but he truly did a dreadful job in Sense and Sensibility as Edward Ferrars.
Kudos to DBRO for watching the BBC Pride and Prejudice! I adore it, but I’m not ready to foist that on my new husband just yet. :) (He did watch the inferior Keira Knightly version, though.)
22. Dallas Pymm
July 12, 2007
1:38 PM
Dave:
“What men most desire is a woman in a good mood. :-/”
Amen brother! I have found such a woman. She also can’t stand Jane Austin. I am a blessed man indeed! They exists guys…a woman who says what she wants and is happy when she gets it and is in normally in a good mood. Hang in there, you may find one of these treasures sent from heaven.
Jabbok
“Ok, but have you seen Transformers yet?”
Oh yeah. I almost did not but was confronted and repented. It was very good, a lot better than I thought. There has to be another one coming.
23. allison
July 12, 2007
3:11 PM
I’m not too sure about Jane Austin (I’m not that into it) but I think it’s American men who are less prone to show their feminine side. I was born in Asia and lived there for the first half of my life, then lived in the States and lived in Europe and Latin America as well. Men elsewhere are very proud of their feminine side (as all men have both masculine & feminine sides) and not afraid to show them (of course, has nothing to do with liking or disliking Jane Austin). I find it very interesting about American men that they always want to be “macho man” and appear to be ignorant of all things about feminine. Wonder why..
Oh, and yea, I loved transformers! And again, it’s not really a guy thing about robots in Asia, where anime thrives in all aspects of both men and women’s lives..
Maybe it’s some kind of a culture thing, I don’t know.
24. Dave Ulrick
July 12, 2007
6:28 PM
I’m a guy who enjoys both Jane Austen and John Wayne. Just as a good Western (“The Searchers”, “Red River”, etc.) is about a whole lot more than blazing gunfights and stampeding cattle, Jane Austen’s novels are far, far more than mere romantic fairy tales. That’s not what makes Austen such a delight, at least for me. Instead, what I appreciate is her oft amazing insights into human behavior and relationships. If you watch P&P, S&S, Emma, etc., I encourage you to pay close attention to the acute insights into the human condition that Austen weaves into her seemingly simple plots. As I’ve become acquainted with Austen’s world, I’ve often profited by looking into the mirror that characters such as Mr. Collins (P&P) and Henry Crawford (MP) provide into various aspects of common human behavior. My favorite Austen character: MP’s Fanny Price, on account of her tenacious determination to do what she believes to be morally right in spite of nearly universal misunderstanding by those dearest to her.
Dave
25. Maggie
July 12, 2007
7:59 PM
Wow, Dave, I know a lot of ladies who would marry you on the spot for being such a rare find: A man who truly appreciates Jane Austen! I’d have to say though that my favourite character study would be Lady Catherine de Bourgh.
Jokes aside, I appreciated the insights into such a great writer.
26. Austin Storm
July 12, 2007
9:11 PM
Funny, but no good. Christian history culminates in a wedding. After that, heaven.
27. Leslie
July 12, 2007
11:16 PM
Thank you, Maggie!
I also would like to add that Jane Austen never married. Perhaps that is why she never wrote about life following the wedding? Not that she couldn’t have written an interesting story based on her observations of married life. Still, most of our favorite stories (not just Austen’s) only deal with the drama leading up to securing an engagement/wedding.
Someone mentioned the most recent movie adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. One cannot, CANNOT watch that version and get a decent idea of Jane Austen or her main characters, Lizzie and Mr. Darcy. It’s not all bad, but too much character and story development was cut in the interest of time.
28. liquid
July 13, 2007
8:19 AM
Oh - that was hysterical! I agree with Kelly (#1) - he should read Persuasion!
29. Dave Ulrick
July 13, 2007
1:50 PM
Maggie,
FYI, I _am_ single (forty-something), so if you know a lady who is dreaming of a guy who will enjoy watching Jane Austen videos with her, send her my way! :-) She won’t need to bring any DVDs or videos, either: I own at least one filmed version of all of Austen’s Big Five Novels. Besides that, I like Anne of Green Gables, but please don’t spread that around. If you do, make sure you point out that I like John Wayne, James Cagney, etc., too. For that matter, I like C. H. Spurgeon and R. C. Sproul even better! ;-)
All,
For those who aren’t 100% satisfied with the seemingly omnipresent 1995 A&E version of P&P or the recent film (which I’ve not seen nor have plans to see), I recommend checking out the 1980-something BBC version starring Elizabeth Garvie and David Rintoul. The production values of this version pale compared to the top-notch 1995 version, but I find the script and performances in the 198x version to be far truer to the spirit of Austen’s novel. Like the A&E version, the BBC version is a miniseries, so plenty of time is available for character development and plot exposition. This version is available as part of an inexpensive DVD box set that includes a (IMHO) knockout version of Mansfield Park (a couple from my church who borrowed my copy watched it _seven times_ before returning it to me!), good-to-very-good versions of Emma, S&S, and Persuasion, and a rather quirky version of Northanger Abbey. Get the box: P&P and MP are worth the price for all Austen fans! Note: don’t confuse the aforementioned MP with the 1999 film. The latter is more moral, I suppose, than most of today’s cinema, but it’s barely related to the novel, and the Fanny Price of the movie is totally different than that of the novel.
Dave
30. nhe
July 13, 2007
4:09 PM
Dave - count me in as another guy who is an Austin fan. For what its worth though, I also really liked “Live Free, Die Hard”.
Someone earlier lamented the A&E mini-series……I actually found it enthralling. My favorite character is the older sister Jane, who personifies goodness. You’re right about the insight into the human condition, and about the rich dialogue and story. To me anyway, story and character are EVERYTHING.
31. Ruth
July 13, 2007
4:42 PM
Be glad for Jane Austen—there’s so much garbage out there that women could be reading and watching. What I find cruel is one of my former junior high boys having to read Wuthering Heights for his summer high school reading. That’s just not right. Emily Bronte needed to get out more.
32. Gary (aka fool4jesus)
July 13, 2007
5:59 PM
Real Men Read Austen
About time we got to talk about something important! I don’t know if I’m a real man, but I love Jane Austen and I love to sit around discussing her novels with anybody who will talk. I think the 1996 A&E version of P&P (known officially as the “Colin Firth” version) was either the best or the worst, depending on whether you are an Austen fan or not.
Jane being the best character? I guess that depends on what you’re looking for - certainly morally the best, although I wouldn’t put Charlotte much behind her. It’s also interesting to think about who is the second worst character (next to Wickham, of course): I’d say Mr. Bennet for his almost total lack of responsibilities as a father.
I could go on for a long time - for example, though I’m not a woman, I totally agree about Colonel Brandon vs. Edward Ferrars - but I’d better stop.
33. April
July 13, 2007
6:57 PM
Austin: capital of Texas
Austen: surname of Jane
Thank you
34. Eric Peterson
July 14, 2007
12:02 AM
As a former Marine, Naval Academy grad, pilot, deer hunter and happily married father of eight, I hope I am in decent standing in the “manhood” department to give my humble but hearty endorsement to Jane Austen.
The common element in each of the stories is a REAL man. The definition of what makes a man is demonstrated usually about the same time the female characters realize who the real men are NOT. Men take heed! Selfless sacrifice, moral courage, doing what is right to their own personal detriment…these make the cut in the end. Micah 6:8 - “He has shown thee, o man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of thee? But to act justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.”
My agreement on Austen’s critique of the society she so brilliantly describes; also notice, however, that the structure and formality of the manners have a usefully purpose in avoiding much of the emotional scarring and entanglements of our modern dating culture. They also spoke with a breadth of vocabulary and depth of dialogue that would put George Will and John Piper to the test! Guys, if your manhood feels threatened by deep thought and complex sentence structure, decide which side of the fence you are on. Remember, these same dudes sword fight and hunt on horseback, too!
I grant that there may be a vast field of girly, romantic stars that surround the lone streaking comets of manliness in the Austen sky, but we today..probably as they were even then…are so lacking for shining examples of real men that we men shouldn’t fear to stare upwards a bit.
ps - Jimmy Stewart over John Wayne.
35. Dave Ulrick
July 14, 2007
12:28 AM
Eric,
Good comments! I agree that the society of Austen’s day enjoyed substantial benefits on account of the safety provided by the manners and formality of that period. I am of the opinion that we of the present day would greatly benefit if we were to adopt a greater degree of formality when dealing with those outside our immediate household and family.
Like you, I am more comfortable with the image of manliness portrayed by James Stewart in his best-known roles vs. those of John Wayne. (I referenced Wayne rather than Stewart for the sake of greater contrast vs. Jane Austen.) Among prominent Hollywood actors, Stewart did a better job than most of portraying men who were both strong and compassionate, but he could also show a darker side (e.g., “Vertigo” and his series of excellent Westerns directed by Anthony Mann, esp. “The Man from Laramie”). Stewart was, IMHO, one of the finest actors of Hollywood’s golden age.
Dave
36. lizzykristine
July 14, 2007
1:24 PM
Just letting you know that I posted a link at my spot to this article. :) It was very funny! Thanks for the excerpt.
37. juliet Applegate
July 15, 2007
2:06 AM
Jane Austen’s people are “nice”, but aren’t all the parsons and pastors portrayed negatively, and nobody goes to church/chapel/worship unless its for the wedding? That’s what I recall, anyway. Also, none of the men DO anything that would put food on the table. Some of them used to, so that they have incomes from naval pensions, or estates…. but Austen’s England seems similar to Beatrix Potter’s, only the animals are mute. The sisters don’t even bicker.
And THAT’s why we all ought to read Charles Dickens! a broader slice of human nature.
38. drdon
July 15, 2007
9:07 PM
I went with a male friend to see “Live Free or Die Hard” - I have seen all of the versions of Pride and Prejudice and even read the book.
I will take the John McClane character over Mr. Darcy any day. He knows what he is doing, kills all of enemies, and rescues a woman; what could be better?
39. drdon
July 15, 2007
9:07 PM
I went with a male friend to see “Live Free or Die Hard” - I have seen all of the versions of Pride and Prejudice and even read the book.
I will take the John McClane character over Mr. Darcy any day. He knows what he is doing, kills all of enemies, and rescues a woman; what could be better?
40. carissa
July 15, 2007
9:07 PM
actually, having recently read Persuasion i can definitely recall people going to church regularly in it. and a young parson who is courting one of the girls in the book is portrayed fairly positively, though he’s a smallish character. so there’s that.
anyway, on its own this little excerpt is pretty funny, rather in the dave barry vein of humor, so i can appreciate that. it’s just too bad for him he chose jane austen to pick on, because members of JASNA (that’s the jane austen society of north america, for the uninitiated, and no i am not a member) are of course going to take great issue with it and, while they will always take lady jane deadly serious, they may never take you seriously again! just kidding, but you can see how spirited people get. makes my literature-loving heart smile.
41. Dave Ulrick
July 16, 2007
9:22 AM
Juliet/Carissa,
I am of the opinion that Austen’s portrayal of Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park is, on the whole, very favorable. To be sure, he is a fallible man (esp. his infatuation over Mary Crawford), but yet he is a man who treats others with kindness and respect (e.g., his treatment of Fanny Price from the first day she arrives at Mansfield Park), and he is a man of conscience who evidently desires to do what is right. Of Austen’s male leads, I find Edmund Bertram to be the most fully realized as well as the most sympathetic.
Dave
42. Linda c
July 20, 2007
6:50 AM
This is great writing—satiritical enough to be funny but not insulting or profane. He is obviously a sensitive father and dad, and very, very practical. Which is a good thing. But I love me some Jane Austen.
43. Linda c
July 20, 2007
6:50 AM
This is great writing—satiritical enough to be funny but not insulting or profane. He is obviously a sensitive father and dad, and very, very practical. Which is a good thing. But I love me some Jane Austen.
44. Linda c
July 20, 2007
6:58 AM
This is great writing—satiritical enough to be funny but not insulting or profane. He is obviously a sensitive father and dad, and very, very practical. Which is a good thing. But I love me some Jane Austen.
45. Gary (aka fool4jesus)
July 20, 2007
9:28 AM
Juliet:
Jane Austen’s people are “nice”, but aren’t all the parsons and pastors portrayed negatively, and nobody goes to church/chapel/worship unless its for the wedding? That’s what I recall, anyway. Also, none of the men DO anything that would put food on the table.
You’re right that most of the parsons are portrayed somewhat negatively (Collins, Elton, Wickham’s attempt to be a clergyman). However, Edward Ferrars (S&S) is very positive. As for men working, you have to remember there are at least very different classes represented: what you might call “peasants” (they don’t show up much: the most prominent examples are in “Emma” such as Robert Martin), untitled but well-off people (the Bingleys, Gardiners, Lucases from P&P or Sir John Middleton from S&S), and gentlemen (most of the rest).
The first two categories generally work hard (with exceptions, such as Sir William Lucas). The gentlemen are not generally shown working, but they do. They manage the large estates that their families live on. Sometimes you get a peek into what they do, such as Mr. Knightly involving himself in the affairs of Robert Martin in Emma. But it was well understood at that time that gentlemen managed their estates, so Jane Austen didn’t spend a lot of ink talking about it. The best indicator of this is that when gentlemen don’t work (such as the dreadful Robert Ferrars), we sure hear about that!
Finally, you’re right that Austen books are not exactly evangelistic. But I still enjoy them immensely, and they make good character studies: Austen’s favorite target was apparently gentlemen who didn’t act like gentlemen should.