Dr. Don Kistler sent the following document to me this evening and asked if I would publish it on my blog. It deals with the ongoing and increasingly-public allegations made against Ligonier Ministries, many of which involve Dr. Kistler's name. I am glad to publish this exactly as it was provided to me.
A Public Statement from Dr. Don Kistler
Managing Editor, Soli Deo Gloria Publications
A Division of Ligonier Ministries
I have been reading several blogsites lately where things have been posted regarding Ligonier Ministries and its president and CEO, Tim Dick, and the acquisition of Soli Deo Gloria Ministries. I think that I am in a good position to correct some misconceptions and misrepresentations regarding that situation and subsequent allegations.
First, Soli Deo Gloria was not defrauded by Tim Dick or Ligonier. Our ministry was not stolen. We signed an agreement to become part of Ligonier Ministries. There was no switching of contracts, and there was no duplicity in their dealings with us. I have no idea where this came from, or who is making such statements-but they did not come from me.
Second, I am not being mistreated by R.C. Sproul. He is not treating me as a "persona non grata," nor is he failing to speak to me. Neither am I seeing any form of retaliation from Tim Dick, as has been erroneously reported. Those things have simply not happened.
Third, I can accept invitations to speak and/or preach as I am asked. Ligonier has been most accommodating in that respect.
Thanks to all of you who have prayed for me during my recent stroke due to a brain hemorrhage. I am recovering well, albeit slowly. This is why it has taken me until now to respond regarding this matter.
I hope this helps to clear up some of the allegations and accusations that have been made. I also hope it serves to restore people’s opinions regarding Tim Dick, Ligonier Ministries, and my dear friend R. C. Sproul. He remains the object of my highest respect and deepest affection, and I look forward to many years of serving the Lord as part of the Ligonier Ministries team.
Dr. Don Kistler
Comments (21) »
1. donsands
September 21, 2006
7:41 PM
Thank you for posting this. And the Lord bless Dr. Kistler. Amen.
2. pilgrim
September 21, 2006
8:31 PM
Amen indeed.
I knew I wanted to hear from the other side, and not just the anti Ligonier crowd.
Thanks for posting this.
3. Jim Vellenga
September 21, 2006
8:36 PM
Isn’t it interesting how some people think that sharing information that is patently false is ok because it is in a blog. It is no different than gossiping with their mouth, a sin placed in rather bad company in Romans 1. I had not read the posts being addressed by this message, but those who posted them should repent and apologize.
4. Mike
September 21, 2006
9:26 PM
This is what is called confirming a matter on the basis of witnesses, Deuteronomy 19:14-21, Matthew 18:15-17.
5. Tim Challies
September 21, 2006
9:33 PM
“This is what is called confirming a matter on the basis of witnesses.”
Indeed, it is.
6. Puzzled
September 21, 2006
9:36 PM
This is odd. If all this time Frank Vance were truly in the wrong, Don Kistler should have spoken out earlier. Much earlier. Like at the very beginning. Delay in such cases only makes things much worse — as we all have seen recently. And if it Ligonier was innocent all along, why disobey the Bible by filing a lawsuit against a professing Christian? And why follow the filing of such a lawsuit with denial for a whole month?
I called Ligonier several times over several days to ask them for an official statement (I was tired of only hearing one side of the story). Yet despite being predisposed to support Ligonier, I was told over and over again that there was no lawsuit. They said, “We have no idea where this came from.”
I called back again this morning with the same request. For the first time the resource consultants said they couldn’t say anything at all, that only the Frontline Manager, Jay Ward, was authorized to comment officially. He wasn’t in, so I left a message. While waiting for a call back, I discovered that the lawsuit has been posted online. It really does exist.
Now, I’m really confused and even more concerned: If Ligonier’s leadership have been innocent all along, why the lawsuit, and why the persistent denial?
7. Brian Thornton
September 21, 2006
9:48 PM
Thank you, Don!
I pray you are comfortable and recovering from your stroke. I saw you at this year’s Ligonier National Conference (behind the SDG book tables), but I didn’t speak to you. I hope you will be able to be there in March, as I would enjoy the opportunity to meet you in person. God’s blessings be upon you and yours.
Tim,
It appears that some people will not accept the truth, even when it comes straight from the horse’s mouth!
I would like to think that a public statement like this will put this thing to rest, but I fear that those dealing in falsehood will only dig in deeper and refuse to listen to the truth.
It wouldn’t surprise me to start seeing some really wild accusations and speculations come out now to counter this direct statement from Don Kistler.
Thanks again, Don.
8. John Steinhausen
September 21, 2006
10:51 PM
Assuming this statement actually did come from Don Kistler himself I too am puzzled about why it took so long. I’m also puzzled why Tim Dick as the accused never denied the allegations.
“If Ligonier’s leadership have been innocent all along, why the lawsuit, and why the persistent denial?” I think that should probably read “lack of denial.” Didn’t Frank Vance say that if Tim Dick had ever just denied the allegations that he never would have gone public? “1. Tim Dick could have responded to the allegations.” Don’t innocent men generally just come out and say, “No, I didn’t do it”?
My personal experience with Tim Dick jibes with Mr. Vance’s. Tim Dick emailed me a couple weeks ago out of the blue and insulted me. We exchanged multiple emails and in six different emails I asked him the same question, “Did you or did you not defraud Don Kistler in the Soli Deo Gloria acquisition?” Six times he replied to my emails but he acted like he never saw that question even though I repeated it six times. This whole thing is very fishy.
9. Brian Thornton
September 21, 2006
11:26 PM
“Assuming this statement actually did come from Don Kistler himself…”
You people are too much. You are willing to believe the rantings and unsubstantiated speculations at the drop of a hat, but you refuse to accept something like this letter from the founder of Soli Deo Gloria Ministries.
Are you now accusing Tim of being part of some sort of conspiracy to cover up what you believe to be the truth?
What is it going to take? An audible voice from heaven?
10. Mike
September 22, 2006
12:14 AM
“I’m also puzzled why Tim Dick as the accused never denied the allegations.”
And
“This whole thing is very fishy.”
First, we live in a society where the burden of proof rests upon the accuser. It is silly to say that this mess is Tim Dick’s fault because he did not respond well enough to baseless accusations.
And second, Jesus said, “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment” John 7:24. Wouldn’t the scenario be much different today if folks had heeded these words very beginning?
11. Frank Vance
September 22, 2006
12:30 AM
Tim, as you know I too received an email like you received with an enclosed Word file. However, before making any comments about it I think it important to validate it’s source. I’ve emailed Don Kistler and am waiting for a response from him personally.
I’m not going to allege that this letter didn’t in fact come from Don Kistler. I don’t know, and that’s just the problem. I will say however that I’ve never seen such a peculiar email before, unless it was written third-party, and that’s exactly what this appears to be:
____________________________
Subject: From Don Kistler
From: dkistler@ligonier.org
To: advancemyten@yahoo.com, tim_email@challies.com, worldblog@gmail.com
CC: tdick@ligonier.org, wwithrow@aol.com
Gentlemen,
Attached is a public statement, written by me, that I would like you to post on your blog.
Thank you,
Dr. Don Kistler
____________________________
1). Subject line: I can’t say as I’ve ever seen anyone compose a subject line like that before, unless it was being composed by someone else.
2). Why would someone writing first-party say, “written by me”? Would that not already be self-evident?
On their own these may not be significant but taken together they might be persuasive that the author of the email wasn’t Don Kistler. I’m not going to assume that it wasn’t sent by Dr. Kistler but I’m also not going to assume that it was. I’ll wait to hear back so that I can validate the source.
Have you validated the source Tim? My understanding is that Don is home convalescing. Why would such an email originate from the Ligonier office? I’ll reserve judgment and a public response until I can confirm the authenticity of this document and its author.
12. Mark Epstein
September 22, 2006
12:39 AM
Mr. Challies, et. al.,
We can debate the merits of Frank Vance’s accusations for the next millennium. However, based on Ligonier Ministries, Inc. filing a lawsuit on August 25, 2006, in Seminole County, all of these so-called “rantings” are tangential and inconsequential. As I have stated elsewhere, regardless of any failure on Frank Vance’s part to perfectly adhere to Matthew 18, we must understand the actions of Ligonier and Vance within the whole counsel of God. Ligonier violated a negative injunction contained within Holy Scripture. In so doing, the ministry abdicated its role as an “elder statesman” of Christian orthodoxy because it failed to be consistent in its orthopraxy. As a Ligonier stakeholder, the ministry is answerable to me and every other Christian when it steps outside of historical Christian orthodox behavior. I have repeatedly asked Ligonier to drop the lawsuit. I made these requests privately and publicly. Should Ligonier admit the lawsuit’s filing, take responsibility for this sin, and drop the lawsuit, then I will be one of the first to applaud the ministry. Until such time, however, those who blindly defend Ligonier or Frank Vance do a disservice to the glory of God. Historically, even heathen courts will convict those who were “only following orders.” Christians know how much higher the ways of God Almighty are. As far as Frank Vance’s actions are concerned, if he has done wrong, then he is accountable as well. And please do not take this last comment as a free pass for Mr. Vance. Every true follower of the Lord and Master knows from the biblical text and the Spirit that bears witness that they must give an accounting. Lastly, I think all of us who know of his work continue to pray for Dr. Kistler’s full recovery.
Respectfully,
Mark Epstein
13. Brian Thornton
September 22, 2006
12:41 AM
Frank,
How much more rope would you like?
Please accept this from Dr. Kistler for what it is…the truth.
14. Michael Garner
September 22, 2006
1:10 AM
I received a call this past Saturday from Ligonier asking for my continued support. I am unsure that I will continue to support the ministry in the midst of what I consider an unbiblical lawsuit. I wish the whole thing would be dropped, Frank Vance would fade into the distance, and Ligonier can get back to what they do best: teaching theology.
Unfortunately, more and more people are getting upset that R.C. Jr. is being included in conferences. I have a feeling that this whole issue (not so much the ridiculous Soli Deo Gloria takeover) is not going to disappear.
Oh the silly things that Satan can use to distract our focus. May we learn sooner rather than later.
In Christ alone,
mike
15. CraigS
September 22, 2006
1:11 AM
Frank,
I have been using the internet for many years and I have sent and received many emails. There is nothing at all unusual about this email from Don Kistler.
The best thing for you to do is to delete your blog and just forget this whole ugly affair that you have created. Really, it is time to stop this Frank.
16. Scott Hill
September 22, 2006
2:22 AM
Frank, if Ligonier is going against scripture by suing you then you are equally if not more guilty for posting this whole deal on your blog in the first place.
I really think you should repent and ask Ligonier for forgiveness.
I can’t speak to Ligoniers dealings yet since they aren’t saying much, but you have posted your sin for all of us to see.
Why begin reserving judgement now. You haven’t restrained yourself from posting unsubtaintiated information thus far.
17. étrangère
September 22, 2006
5:00 AM
I really don’t know much about this whole debacle but when I heard of Don Kistler’s stroke I was concerned, having had him staying over in the family home on a few occasions. I asked after him via a family friend who has remained in constant contact with Don and in the course of things I mentioned this because I was sure it was slander and could do with being cleared up. I was told that Don backed Soli Deo Gloria into Ligonier some years ago as they had funds and he had ideas for Puritan reprints. The only thing he may now not like so much being in a bigger show when he was used to running it, but there’s no trickery! The whole little having a stroke thing may have influenced his not so swift reply. But come on guys, not everyone reads the blogosphere! In fact, aware of that, I passed on the suggestion that a statement wouldn’t go amiss because of the accusations of his friends in the blogosphere. And if (unlikely) he had been, as one of us, poring over the blogosphere and picking up on everything, and if a stroke hadn’t got in the way, and if he’d immediately issued this sort of statement… I do imagine that many people would’ve immediately cried: “Why, see! A rumour so swiftly denied can only really be affirmed - he thought it worth negating! Ooh, see how much Ligonier are controlling him!” And it would’ve kept the slander on the go far longer than not responding to it.
And for those who’re saying, ‘Ok, whatever, it’s irrelevant given the court case coverup’ or whatever it is you’re talking about, it is NOT irrelevant when Christians fling around false or unsubstantiated accusations about each other.
18. Puzzled
September 22, 2006
7:10 AM
SCOTT HILL: “Frank, if Ligonier is going against scripture by suing you then you are equally if not more guilty for posting this whole deal on your blog in the first place.”
Mr. Hill, if you have read Mr. Vance’s blog, you would know that his post on SDG was only a small part of the information supplied there about improper behavior by officers at Ligonier, particularly Tim Dick. He was not the source of the information but merely its publisher, so don’t shoot him as the messenger just because what he published wasn’t flattering to Ligonier. Keep in mind, that he published what he did after trying to deal with things directly and behind the scenes with Ligonier. They were not responsive to him, just like they have not been responsive, or honest, to others like me who have called them for their side of the story.
Moreover, that information was confirmed by many who posted comments and who are prepared to come forward as the lawsuit by Ligonier moves ahead. You may not be familiar with lawsuits, but the basic rule when someone sues you is to keep your evidence to yourself until such time as you can best use it for the trial. Don’t release it prematurely on the internet or elsewhere and thereby weaken your case. Because of the lawsuit, Mr. Vance had more important things to do than satisfy all of his critics — most of whom did not bother, and still have not bothered, to check to confirm the information that was publicly available.
SCOTT HILL: I can’t speak to Ligoniers dealings yet since they aren’t saying much, but you have posted your sin for all of us to see.
It’s true that Ligonier hasn’t said much, but what they have said is enough to be revealing. In fact, it supports Mr. Vance. The first public thing Ligonier said was the lawsuit they filed against Mr. Vance almost a month ago. That’s right: they sued first. Even worse, the explanation they gave for suing first and furthermore asking the judge to issue a gag order against Frank without hearing from him at all is that they couldn’t contact him. Yes, Ligonier’s attorney, speaking on behalf of Ligonier, lied to the court:
“The undersigned attorney certifies that the geographical whereabouts of the Defendant are unknown such that it is impossible to contact him…. Moreover, counsel was not able to provide the Defendant with notice and an opportunity to be heard….”
Don’t believe me? Then go read the lawsuit Ligonier claimed did not exist for yourself. It’s real, despite what Ligonier told its customer service reps to say. And with it is a motion that includes the lie that Mr. Vance couldn’t be contacted. I don’t know Mr. Vance, so I don’t expect much from him. But I do know Ligonier, and I expect a whole lot more from them than suing a professing Christian brother then lying to me about it and lying to the court about him.
Given Ligonier’s track record so far, I would not be surprised if their next step is to drop the lawsuit. That way they can avoid having to explain to the judge why they lied to him by saying they couldn’t contact Mr. Vance. And that way they can avoid facing Mr. Vance, his evidence, and his witnesses on a fair playing field.
If you don’t believe me, just wait and see.
19. donsands
September 22, 2006
8:15 AM
“Hereby know we the love of God, because He laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethern.” 1 John 3:16
I have quite the heavy heart over all this. When I read Dr. Kistler’s e-mail the heaviness was lifted.
Our Lord said: “For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.” Luke 12:2
The Lord hates discord. It’s one of six things He hates with emphasis. I pray we would meditate on these things.
20. CraigS
September 22, 2006
8:43 AM
Mr. Hill, if you have read Mr. Vance’s blog, you would know that his post on SDG was only a small part of the information supplied there
This is certainly not true. The allegation of fraud was the most significant of the claims made by Vance. Vance’s credibility is now in tatters. He really should delete his blog.
Also, from what I understand Ligonier haven’t sued Vance, rather they have asked for an injunction from the court to stop him writing his lies. A reasonable request, surely, and one that God would approve of.
21. Tim Challies
September 22, 2006
8:46 AM
I am going to close down the comments on this thread. I don’t think it’s likely to prove edifying to leave it open.
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