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08/02/06
Comments (63)

Christians and Film

I began my post-secondary education by concentrating on the study of both English and history at McMaster University. After only a few months, I found myself increasingly frustrated with the English courses. It seemed my studies were based primarily on what, in theology, we would refer to as eisogesis. The professor would lead us in the study of an assigned story or a poem and would encourage us to read into it whatever we meaning we felt existed within. It seemed the more wild our speculations, the more satisfied the instructor would become. I eventually walked away from these courses, frustrated that instead of finding what the author had really intended to say, we pushed our agendas on their works, making these books or poems say what we wanted them to say. It was an exercise in folly.

It seems to me many Christians do this very thing with the arts, and with movies in particular. There are countless articles in Christian publications dealing with movies, exhorting Christians to engage in popular culture by watching film. Denis Haack, in an article in By Faith Magazine (May/June 2005), asks whether movies “truly help us engage our world with the gospel, or is that simply a thin excuse by Christians who want to justify watching movies?” Answering his own question, he concludes “We don’t have the luxury of ignoring the common grace expressed in film, unless we are content to be deaf to the postmodern generation.” In other words, we need to watch movies if we wish to be faithful ambassadors of Christ in this world. To ignore popular entertainment would be to ignore a God-given means of engaging unbelievers in spiritual conversation.

Haack goes on to say that, while God extends His saving grace to the elect, He also showers creation liberally with common grace that allows creativity to flourish even among those who deny God’s existence. He feels we need to seek out this common grace so we can then praise God for it. “We won’t be grateful for God’s common grace if we don’t have eyes to see it…Reformed Christians dare not be dismissive of culture, nor dare we be dismissive of God’s common grace simply because the film in which it appears is part of the cinema of Babylon.”

But what of movies that glorify sin or that portray what Christians are commanded to flee? Haack tacitly suggests that a Christian can watch anything, provided it does not fall into an area, specific to the individual, that would cause him to sin. “Certainly we must be discerning. We must discern accurately our areas of weakness so we can avoid films with scenes that will tempt us to sin.” Much of this argument seems to depend on motives. Haack says he does not watch movies in order to deliberately expose himself to scenes of depravity, but that he watches movies because he loves them. Because his motives are pure, so too is his participation. Christian maturity, it seems, is necessary to watch and enjoy films.

Through the article the author provides examples from movies that portray incest, orgies, paganism, as well as any amount of sex, swearing and blasphemy. Noticeably absent from the article is any clear biblical support for watching such movies, though he does make a couple of appeals to Calvin. “In his Institutes, John Calvin warns us not to be disdainful of truth ‘wherever it shall appear, unless we wish to dishonor the Spirit of God.’ That is a sobering idea. Just as all truth is God’s truth, so all expressions of grace and glory must be embraced as good gifts of God, even if they appear in packages that are flawed.” Yet it is folly to suppose that Calvin would be an advocate of Christians deliberately placing themselves before the graphic display of sinful acts. Haack appeals to Calvin’s understanding of common grace, but ignores Calvin’s emphasis on avoiding sin.

I often wonder if, much like my experiences in university-level English courses, the redemptive themes in movies are not merely what we read into them in order to justify watching. Do we really watch movies in order to seek out themes of common grace, or do we watch primarily for our own entertainment, or even to feed a human lust that God, in His wisdom, has forbidden us?

I read another article, published at an online periodical, that speaks specifically of The Shawshank Redemption, a movie written by Stephen King that has become something of a modern favorite for many believers and unbelievers alike. The author provides a warning for any readers who may have a “sensitive disposition.” He provides three reasons Christians should embrace this movie, despite swearing, blasphemy, brutal violence and scenes of homosexual rape (though these scenes are non-graphic).

“God is the creator and he is the author of creativity and the arts even before any efforts of the enemy to hijack proceedings.” This seems to indicate that the artist has within him the ability to create art that is good and pleasing to God, but that the enemy interferes with it and makes it something less than pure. Our job as Christians, then, is to examine this art and draw out the redemptive themes that have been placed in it, perhaps inadvertently.

“God’s omnipotence is such that he is able to use whomever he chooses to speak into the lives of whomever he decides - we are speaking of a God who raised up Cyrus to lead the Israelites back to Jerusalem and a donkey, no less, to speak to Balaam, not to mention Saul of Tarsus, the persecutor of the church to reach and revolutionize the Gentile world.” Poor reasoning, really. Though God has, in the past, used any number of means to reveal Himself, this does not mean that He will now use movies. I see no biblical support for the understanding that God desires to speak to the believer through film.

“Sometimes our rush to divide the ‘spiritual’ and the ‘secular’ mean we miss God’s attempts to address us through the world of the arts…there is gold to be mined by those with an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to His church.” It strikes me as near blasphemy to suggest that the Spirit is attempting to communicate to His church through film, and to support this idea by quoting the words of God intended to draw us to Scripture. God communicates to His church through the Bible, and to ignore the Bible is to ignore the Spirit. We do not ignore the spirit by staying away from the theatre.

These articles are just two of the multitudes of examples. I think of the books of John Eldredge which are replete with references to movies and which use movies as the foundation for much of the teaching. I think of Bible study series based around The Matrix, Superman Returns and other popular films. Many authors, attempting to engage a postmodern generation, depend on film to provide a link to the culture.

I am increasingly concerned by the way I see Christians embracing film. While films become filled with more and more of the world’s utter depravity, Christians are turning to them for entertainment, escapism or even for spiritual reasons, in ever-greater numbers. As we have seen, there are many ways of justifying this behavior, but I think if we are honest, we have to admit that we watch movies primarily for their entertainment value. Movies are fun. They are a wonderfully effective distraction from the drudgery of daily life. They can transport us to different worlds and make us feel joy and pain that we have no reason or ability to feel in our everyday lives. Haack says “The Royal Tennenbaums allowed me to feel a bit of the brokenness and alienation the books [dealing with divorce] described but couldn’t emote. [They] have been a window of insight into a world I do not inhabit.” But mostly movies are fun.

God calls us to a high standard. God’s instruction to His people, through the Bible, is that they avoid the very appearance of evil; every form of evil. We are to embrace a higher standard of purity and godliness. According to 1 Thessalonians 5 we are to use discernment, the divinely given ability to think biblically about all areas of life, to “test everything; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.” We are a people set apart, a people who avoid worldliness while seeking to be in the world but not of the world. I see nothing in the Bible to convince me that I can and even should watch the world’s movies in order to engage the culture. In fact, I find the opposite. How can I be an effective witness if I begin a conversation with an unbeliever by proudly proclaiming that I have just watched a movie that is filled with the very acts my faith tells me I must avoid? Will unbelievers not immediately note the inconsistency between what I do and what I claim to believe? How can I have a pure heart, as God demands, when my eyes and are heart are constantly bombarded with scenes of depravity? Why would I deliberately subject myself to these influences?

A clear theme throughout the Scriptures is that “a little leaven leavens the whole lump.” This is as true of evil influences as it is of good. In the Old Testament, God considered something defiled when it had only the smallest suggestion of evil mixed with the good. Yet today we have turned this principle on its head, suggesting that the smallest glimmer of good, when mixed with abhorrent evil, brings redemption. We seek to redeem what we should not be redeemed. We seek to redeem what cannot be redeemed.

I am not opposed to all movies, but I do believe we need to prayerfully consider if we have allowed ourselves to justify and celebrate what God forbids. There are many movies I enjoy tremendously and with a clear conscience. I acknowledge film can be a powerful, effective medium of communication. But I believe it is of utmost importance that we use discernment when choosing the movies we watch. This is not a discernment that pushes the limits of what we can or cannot see, but a discernment that carefully examines each film in the light of Scripture and asks whether a Christian should watch it. The primary task and calling of the Christian is to glorify and enjoy God in all things. When assessing a film, we should not ask if we can watch it without falling into sin, but whether watching this film will equip or hinder our calling as we seek to bring glory to our God.

Christians and Film

Comments (63) »


1. Nephos
August 2, 2006
11:24 AM

Thanks for a balanced, thoughtful approach to this subject. I’m reminded of an article I posted about recently. It was an interview by Bill O’Reilly with a man from a “Movie Ministry”. His point was to prove that there were Christian themes in “Pirates of the Caribean.”

Have we become so desparate to be relevant in our culture?


2. Jennifer
August 2, 2006
11:39 AM

Oh, thank you - that was a breath of fresh air!

What you described above is exactly what is happening in our culture - I liked reading your thoughts.

And along those lines - of discernment in pop culture art - a few friends have started a blog to discuss such issues…(I hope this isn’t contrary to “blog ettiqette” to cite a relevant site). :)

http://truthdiscussion.blogspot.com


3. Phillip
August 2, 2006
11:54 AM

Tim, help us get practical with this: first, do you have any recommendations on resources (websites, etc.) where we can learn more about the content of films in order to be able to more accurately discern whether we should see them? second, how do you handle it when other believers discern that it is acceptable to see a movie (and thus, go see it) that you do not think is acceptable to see? Thanks for the thoughts.


4. David B. Hewitt
August 2, 2006
12:13 PM

Excellent article, Tim. I just added you to my blogroll and my RSS feed, and I’m glad I did!

SDG, David Hewitt


5. 4ever4given
August 2, 2006
12:16 PM

Have you read “Movie Nights: 25 Movies to Spark Spiritual Discussion With Your Teen” from Focus on the Family?

On the back of the book Michael Card’s review says, “If we, as believers, are to engage with contemporary society redemptively and biblically we must, within limits, listent to the heartcry of culture through film. Bob Smithouser has provided all the equipment we need to begin the process in Movie Night

Wow. So I guess even though “all Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness” as it says in 2 Timothy 3:16… it is best that I turn to Bob instead of the Bible when it comes to helping equip my children with the ability to “discern truth in movies”, “learn to evaluate the media” and “spark meaningful discussion with my teen” so that they can better “engage with contemporary society redemptively and biblically”???

I think not.


6. JoAnna Martens
August 2, 2006
12:37 PM

I work in film.


7. KL
August 2, 2006
12:47 PM

I work in Accounting.


8. Christopher Klemm
August 2, 2006
12:48 PM

Good article Tim. Thanks. In many ways, I see the conglomeration of finding “truth” in a secular society quite amusing and at the same time very dangerous. As you said, there are greater numbers “willingly” subjecting themselves to sex, violence, immorality, and foul language (to name but a few) in order to justify the desire to see the movie with a mere possibility to discern some sort of truth from it?! Is this not ludicrous?

I think of your example…How can a Christian willingly choose to see such a load of sinful filth that corrodes the heart and mind while at the same time witness to someone as a representative of the Christian faith that has been commanded to rid themselves of such sin and follow Jesus Christ?

Out of curiosity, it would be interesting to know how many Christians in North America actually read their Bibles regularly (daily), spend time in fervant prayer, and witness to friends, neighbours, and strangers? How many of those are spending time at the movie theater or at home watching films instead?

For the miniscule truth that there may be in a film, does it override our duty and commandment to 1) follow Jesus Christ, 2) equip ourselves “to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you” and, 3) tell the world the truth of the gospel?

This, at least in my own humble (but biased :-) opinion is the question each of us as Christians should be asking ourselves when faced with the choices of our next actions. Will we please Christ and further His kingdom or will we cause ourselves to sin through word, thought, or deed? The standards of God are very high, indeed!


9. Sam
August 2, 2006
12:51 PM

My 2 cents. Culture is not determined by film, only represented. If one wants to examine culture they must flee from representations and seek the real thing. Live for awhile next to someone unlike you. The lives of real people reveal culture. My second cent…. I’ve seen much good fruit as a result of studies based on Eldredge’s books but somehow I don’t see Jesus sitting down and watching “Braveheart”.

As an aside, I liked “Braveheart”.


10. Tim H.
August 2, 2006
1:08 PM

Tim I’m definitely with you. I think people use the excuses of understanding culture, etc to just watch things they know they shouldn’t watch.


11. david
August 2, 2006
1:15 PM

I don’t know if I can listen to you, Tim, since you insist on ignoring the messages God is trying to send you via Speilberg, et al. No wonder you don’t get it.

Seriously, if someone made a film clearly presenting the Biblical Gospel in a Biblical way, that would be a good thing, but the attempt to make every vaguely redemptive story, including those that are saturated with depravity, into a spiritual inspiration is ridiculous and wrong.


12. Zach Nielsen
August 2, 2006
1:40 PM

Tim,

Interesting post. I find this issue is what I usually call a “Holy Spirit” issue. There are no clear black and whites sometimes when it comes to discerning watching movies. An issue like abortion or murder seems a bit less complex. I fear that your post walks the line of legalism (don’t shoot me down…I am aware of all the Bible’s exhortations to abstain from evil) but how preciesly a movie may cause me to sin is sometimes up for grabs and hard to pin down. It’s like money - how much is too much? We are all aware of the Bible’s admonitions concerning the dangers of wealth, but tha mere fact that we all are doing this on a our own computer’s right now qualifies us a some of the richest people in the world. Should we all forsake our money? Maybe, maybe not. Seems like through prayer and Bible, and counsel we can makes those decisions aided by the Holy Spirit. I think it is dangerous temptation for those of you who whole heartedly agree with Tim’s writing here is to wag the finger of condemnation toward those who might feel differently without knowing their hearts or motives, etc…

I recently had a gay friend challenge me to see “‘Brokeback Mountain” so that I could understand better where he was coming from. Was that sin? Based on Tim’s post I would have to say yes, but I think for the sake of our relationship and what I learn (besides the fact that the movie was amazing in terms of the art, cinematography, music, acting, script writing - more examples of common grace) I think it was worth it. Did I fast forward some parts, for sure.

BTW - I had a class with Dennis Haack at Covenant Seminary in St. Louis a few years back. To be sure, this man loves God and has an honest passion to reach the lost. Just wanted to put in a good word for him.


13. Tim Challies
August 2, 2006
1:56 PM

Zach - I attempted not to be or to sound legalistic in my article. I hope I succeeded. I think the final line is important: “When assessing a film, we should not ask if we can watch it without falling into sin, but whether watching this film will equip or hinder our calling as we seek to bring glory to our God.” I think that provides us some leeway. A man whose ministry involves watching movies to report to other Christians about the content is an example, I think, of a guy who can watch bad movies will still glorifying God.


14. Tim Challies
August 2, 2006
2:00 PM

“Tim, help us get practical with this: first, do you have any recommendations on resources (websites, etc.) where we can learn more about the content of films in order to be able to more accurately discern whether we should see them? second, how do you handle it when other believers discern that it is acceptable to see a movie (and thus, go see it) that you do not think is acceptable to see? Thanks for the thoughts.”

1) Yes. There are a couple of sites out there that give detailed examinations of movies. CapAlert is a tad strange, but still does a good job of sorting good from bad. Pluggedinonline is another. There’s one more I’ve used a few times, but I can’t recall the address right now.

2) Harsh and bitter judgment. Just kidding of course. I think a lot of Christians struggled with that over The Passion of the Christ. To be honest, I don’t let it affect me much. I believe in the right and freedom of Christians to choose in some matters. I might try to ask them a few questions about why they feel a movie is acceptable, but I’m not going to get too upset.


15. Zach Nielsen
August 2, 2006
2:02 PM

You can see one of Dennis’s publications here:

http://www.ransomfellowship.org/P_Critique.html

I have found it very interesting.


16. Zach Nielsen
August 2, 2006
3:28 PM

Tim,

Thanks for your clarification - I was not accusing you… just wanting to ask the question. For sure these are important matters that need to be thought through very carefully. Since the Bible doesn’t talk about movies we have to look for principles to apply and at that point sometimes we move from the concrete to the more mushy. Prayful wisdom that is surrendered and open to the HS is key I think.


17. bchallies
August 2, 2006
4:11 PM

Tim - a thought…While the ACLU and their ilk are convinced that even a glance at anything biblical can cause irreparable “harm”, Christians are determined that many and lingering glances at something evil is a neutral affair!


18. bchallies
August 2, 2006
4:13 PM

To slightly amend the previous post - change “neutral” to “beneficial”…


19. blestwithsons
August 2, 2006
4:25 PM

It is a given that I would like this post. But I’m saying it anyway.

I like this post!


20. Bennett B. Wethered
August 2, 2006
4:46 PM

A marvelous post. All too often, we look around ourselves, in the culture in which God has placed us, and allow what is to become OK or acceptable simply because it is. Like assuming the legitimacy or appropriateness of public (govt.) schools for our children, when such have only existed (in the U.S., anyway) for only the last 160 years or so, a rather small part of the time since our Lord’s time on earth. With all things around us, we must “not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.” (1 John 4.1)

The fact that something is popular among our neighbors is something of which we need be aware, but, although we will ‘use’ it to some degree as well, its popularity does not create a need for us. In fact, since a majority of our neighbors are unbelievers, we should be all the more wary of (though aware of) what they find popular.

There are 2 other helpful websites (maybe the one you couldn’t remember, Tim) for Christian reviews of movies: http://christiananswers.net/spotlight/home.html and http://www.movieguide.org/. A great benefit of such websites is that, not only can it guide us to films that we can and will see, for our enjoyment and the ability to dialogue with unbelieving friends, we also will be somewhat comnversant, even having not seen them, about other films, so we can speak intelligently about them with our unbelieving friends.

Discernment is called for. We must have Godly thresholds, points beyond which we will not go, for the sake of our Lord, as we are, and are to be, His spotless Bride.


21. Odious Herodias
August 2, 2006
5:54 PM

A site we use all the time to screen movies and videos is www.screenit.com. It provides a very thorough, objective dissection of the film in virtually every area, certainly enough to make an informed choice whether the movie is appropriate or not.


22. david
August 2, 2006
6:38 PM

We use screenit.com also. They get a little silly, counting details such as how many times someone smokes in the film and “jump scenes” (startling scenes that might make you jump), but at least you know what to expect. You can’t say you weren’t warned of anything.


23. Ahazo!
August 2, 2006
11:05 PM

I whole-heartedly agree with what you are saying. Another powerful reason for not watching most movies is that fact that somebody has to make them. Often we Christians talk about sex scenes as unacceptable, but what about a passionate kiss? Has it ever occurred to you that what you are seeing is not two characters kissing, but two real human beings? Next time you see a passionate kiss in a movie, imagine that was your wife/husband or girlfriend/boyfriend do that with some random actor/actress. Puts a whole new light on things! Can we as Christians support this kind of entertainment and the promiscuity required to create it? (ever wondered why so many actors and actresses dump their last partner for the person they recently starred with?)

Also, as an aside, our is the first society to worship actors and actressess as heros and gods. Almost every society previous to ours has placed them on the same level as prostitutes. And I guess it is sort of like prostitution, except we’re the ones footing the bill.


24. Patrick Barrett
August 2, 2006
11:20 PM

Hey Tim,

“I see no biblical support for the understanding that God desires to speak to the believer through film.”

I really appreciated your very biblical concerns and I completely agree with your challenge to the church, but I wanted to address this statement because you camped out here for a bit. I’ve never read anything by the reformed source you mentioned, but I think advocates of this kind of movie watching might be after something altogether different from listening for God in Braveheart the same way they might listen for God in the book of Romans. I think it is possible for movie viewing Christians like your source to listen for the faint echoes from God’s original creative shout in order to say to the world, ?did you hear that!!? Rather than drawing a Bible study from a movie, I think it is biblical and even wise to take a step back and ask a few questions about movies in general…..not to address the church necessarily, but to address the world with questions like:

Why do your palms sweat when the good guys are losing? Why do you long for evil to be destroyed? Why do you value freedom? Why do so many of your movies glorify a “savior”? Why do the movies you love cause you to long for something bigger than yourself?

I think this is a valid way to point people to Christ by identifying the epic desires that already exist in their hearts. I think these questions resonate with the world and aid its progress toward finding the answer to each of them in Christ. You make several excellent points, but I feel like the balance might be somewhere to your left. Or maybe I have misunderstood you completely:)

May God bless you!


25. Steve Jobs
August 3, 2006
12:10 AM

Tim, you said, “How can I be an effective witness if I begin a conversation with an unbeliever by proudly proclaiming that I have just watched a movie that is filled with the very acts my faith tells me I must avoid? Will unbelievers not immediately note the inconsistency between what I do and what I claim to believe? How can I have a pure heart, as God demands, when my eyes and are heart are constantly bombarded with scenes of depravity? Why would I deliberately subject myself to these influences?”

Isn’t our bible full of the very acts our faith tells us we must avoid? Why should we deliberately subject ourselves to the bible’s influences?


26. Bill Barnes
August 3, 2006
12:20 AM

Tim could you explain what you mean by:

“We seek to redeem what cannot be redeemed.”

I am a bit confused by that. Are you saying that you are able to identify the irredeemable?


27. PJ Hanson
August 3, 2006
12:51 AM

Hi, We just got internet access at home. I have Psalm 101:3 taped to the front of the monitor to remind my self and my children that, “I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless…” Thanks for your website, I only go to a few. I have four children under 8 and I don’t want to spend too much time in front of a screen. About movies. My wife and used to love them but now we are down to about 5 a year that includes renting. We still love beautiful movies but there are so few. Luther was one of my favorites. Something that has been very convicting is to go to the websites that tell you exactly what is in the movie. The foul language is the most convicting. We wanted to rent a new Harrison Ford movie but when I saw that they used Jesus Christ as a swear word 9 times I just couldn’t bring myself to rent it. I am always on the look out for truly good movies to watch with our entire family. An older movie called Treasures in the Snow was awesome. The bottom line is discernment and to hate what is evil and hold on to the good. God is the only good.

PJ


28. Luke Britt
August 3, 2006
1:02 AM

I find your view on film is much like many conservative Christians. They worry (sometimes called discernment) about what is good and what is bad instead of engaging things (which is not sin) in order to participate, chew on, spit out, or consume.

You may only watch movies to be entertained. If that’s the case, you probably like movies like King Kong or other entertaining blockbusters. However, there are Christians out there who watch tons of movies in order to disect them, chew on them, eat the meat and spit out the bones, asking questions like:

  1. What is the overarching theme in the movie? (if it’s not porno, it’s probably not sex, although most of us think every movie is about sex and cussing)
  2. Are there any redemptive themes?
  3. What is the philosophical nature of the film?
  4. How is God portrayed?
  5. How does this reflect my cultural context?
  6. How can I engage these ideas in my context in an evangelistic way?

I don’t think the problem lies in more Christians seeing movies, but in more Christians seeing movies in an unChristian manner. Being entertained and vegging out is lazy, but engaging culture in order to exegete it for the gospel is worth while.

Well written post, but wrong conclusions.


29. Custard
August 3, 2006
5:01 AM

It’s interesting that Paul quotes secular Greek (and Cretan) poets, isn’t it? Do you think he read the whole works?

It’s interesting that Jesus was a friend to tax collectors and sinners, that he ate and drank with them. Do you think he walked out when the erotic dancers came in?

Of course, I agree that often we use “engaging with culture” as an excuse to give into sinful desire. But I think that’s a different issue.


30. Jerry Morningstar
August 3, 2006
10:02 AM

I once had a Sr. pastor tell me he could watch R-rated movies with nudity and it didn’t bother him. I was candidating for an associate position and I think he was concerned i might be a bit too conservative for him. While he might not be bothered by it - I questioned the concept. Is it a matter of the conscience becoming hardened to accept over time what it should not accept? There is a reason the gratuitious ‘nude’ scene is thrown into so many movies. It appeals to the lust of the flesh. We have to be honest with ourselves. Men - in general are wired to find the sight of the female body attractive. Our battle is to reserve those kinds of desires and affections for our wives - and not to let them slip from the mind indiscriminately towards other women who are being used for such a purpose. Just because there is a story around a scene does not make porn more acceptable. Would Jesus walk out? I wouldn’t bet He would stay - and I don’t think he would plunk down money to watch. Just my two cents


31. Lauren
August 3, 2006
10:53 AM

I wonder what the opinion is about documentary films that may contain foul language or scenes of depravity. Films such as “Born into Brothels” contain scenes and themes that for many Christians would be disturbing; however the film depicts the real life experiences of children born to prostitutes in India. How can we profess to have a heart to minister to people of all walks of life if we are unwilling to hear their stories and learn what they experience?


32. Steve Jobs
August 3, 2006
11:24 AM

PJ, along with Psalms 101:3, you should tape Titus 1:15 to your monitor as well. The problem is not out there. The problem is in our heart. As Martin Luther said, and I paraphrase, “…men worship women and the stars, but we don’t abolish them from our sight…”

Psalms 101:3 is abused by legalists. Instead, you need to avoid extremes like Ecclesiastes 7:15-18 recommends.

I fully agree that children without discernment need to be protected and guided. This lack of discernment will hopefully grow into maturity. Psalms 101:3 does not mean we sin if we get a glimpse of worthlessness or wickedness. And if it’s not a sin, we need to be careful about making a rule about it or else we fall into legalism.


33. julie
August 3, 2006
11:53 AM

I think we are forgetting something important here. What is legalism? Isn’t it distorting the gospel — adding works to salvation by grace? Isn’t it telling people that they have to do something in order to be saved, or keep doing something in order to stay saved, or in order to win God’s favor?

Being wise and aware of evil is not legalism. Warning others about evil influences is not legalism. Discussing whether an activity is edifying or not, or whether it is spiritually helpful or potentially harmful is not legalism. Deciding not to be a part of an activity because you deem it inappropriate or sinful is not legalism. Trying to bind another’s conscience by making extra-biblical requirements about choices is legalism.

Also, please do not say that Jesus did this or that and so it makes it o.k. for Christians to attend movies. Jesus lived among sinful men. They brought their sin to him as it were, He did not pay money to go and willingly sit and soak in what the world had to offer. Please don’t denigrate the Savior’s life and work by making such a comparison.

Tim, thanks for being willing to confront one of the biggest idols of the 21st century Christian.


34. Bill Barnes
August 3, 2006
12:30 PM

Hi Tim,

eisegesis - the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one’s own ideas.

“A clear theme throughout the Scriptures is that “a little leaven leavens the whole lump.” “

Matthew 16:6 (NIV) 6”Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

That is the most notable passage I can think of regarding your comments Tim. Do you think the “yeast of the Pharisees” was that they were not scrupulous in avoiding the “very appearance of evil”. My interpretation of that passage is that they were more concerned with the “appearance of evil” than humbly recognizing the sin in their hearts and seeking forgiveness for that. It seems to me that Jesus was warning the disciples about spiritual pride.

“I see nothing in the Bible to convince me that I can and even should watch the world’s movies in order to engage the culture. In fact, I find the opposite. “

Could you point me to the Bible passage regarding watching “sinful” movies?

I agree with you that we shouldn’t “embrace” movies or popular culture. There is only one thing that we should “embrace” - Jesus Christ. I am afraid I don’t see the connection between that however and going to see a movie that has sinful behavior in it. Candidly, I am exposed to sinful behavior everyday. A lot of it is mine incidentally.

Am I wrong about my interpretation of Matthew 16:6? If so, please help me with that. I’d be very interested in any “sola sciptura” insights you have.

Thanks,


35. Michael Hamblin
August 3, 2006
1:48 PM

Tim and all,

I recently commented on Christian responses to anime as a post on my blog:

Christian Reponses to Anime

Although I was responding to concerns about anime, basically everything there applies to film and television as well.

I developed a series of categories of Christian response:

  • Separatist
  • Moralistic
  • Discernment
  • Creative
  • Redemptive
  • Embracing

These categories are not meant to be mutually exclusive, so a Christian response can be characterized by elements of various categories.

On my blog, I spend more time developing these ideas.

Tim, I greatly appreciate your comments. They are fair-minded criticisms of redemptive and embracing responses to media. Although I would not discount the redemptive response, it is at best only partial truth and we should be acutely cognizant of this fact before any attempt at redemptive interpretation. Discernment is still needed in the consumption of media.


36. Glenn
August 3, 2006
2:21 PM

I don’t remember the exact quote. But a couple of years ago I read Renovation of the Heart by Dallas Willard. One point in this book was very profound and convicted me of the very subject which you write about. In essence Dallas said we must not think in our freedom we can place any subject matter before our eyes. If we do not screen what we watch it will affect our souls. And with choice, we also chose the consequences of that choice. Yes, God respects human dignity enough to allow us to suffer the consequences of our choices. Buyer Beware!


37. Lance J.
August 3, 2006
5:03 PM

In these discussions I am reminded why I always wear my WWJD bracelet (What Would John Calvin Do). Calvin tells us that we need to realize truth in all venues. It is scary to me how some of the posters here are going against Sir John. I would not want to be in your position on judgement day.

The other night I saw “Clerks II”. It was a movie showing the redemptive power of true love overpowering a “love” of convenience and easy access to the American dream. I won’t ruin the movie by telling the whole story. Even though there were some sac religious parts of the film, it was still overall a masterpiece and showed truth.


38. nhe
August 3, 2006
5:18 PM

Tucked away in this long discussion is a gem of wisdom in post #24 by Patrick.

I can’t add anything that he doesn’t already say there - beautifully said Patrick!

Tim, I’m curious - have you seen “The Shawshank Redemption”? You seem to site as an example of how Christians are sometimes irresponsible with what films they ascribe value and redemptive qualities to.

Tim, all I can say, honestly……..whenever I watch that film, it ends with me sitting there in tears praising God for the gospel…..not only is it a redemptive film, watching it is (for me) true Sabbath rest.


39. General Lee
August 3, 2006
5:50 PM

How many of you saw The Dukes of Hazzard? It was a great portrayal of how the South will rise again. They showed how racism is wrong and how Southerners have changed their ways. It also showed how families that stick together, cousins and all, do well in the thend.


40. Steve Jobs
August 3, 2006
6:11 PM

Julie, you said, “Deciding not to be a part of an activity because you deem it inappropriate or sinful is not legalism.”

Sure it is, that’s legalism since legalism is a dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith (in matters where the bible is silent, that is).

The phrase “you deem” is the legalism in that statement, assuming we have first established that there’s nothing else in scripture to dictate right or wrong behavior in this instance.

If you find that the bible is silent, and you are left to only having your conscience to go on, and then you go and say it’s inappropriate or sinful for someone else, it’s legalism.

If I see a movie by myself in my home that depicts evil activities, rest assured, there are no evil activities taking place in that room unless I am the one doing evil. So, assuming I’m not actually doing evil at that moment, there’s no evil.

Tim’s reference to I Thessalonians 5:22 talks about actual evil, not what looks evil. This is a common mistake and there’s a big difference depending on the translation, so read different versions of the bible to make sure you get a better view on that one little verse.

Lastly, if you think that merely watching a movie will cause evil to get in you, then you’re absolutely wrong about that. That evil is already in you. The one thousand Harvard studies over thirty years that links violence in the media to real violence simply confused causality.


41. holmegm
August 3, 2006
10:23 PM

It’s interesting that Jesus was a friend to tax collectors and sinners, that he ate and drank with them.

It’s interesting that people today join in the accusations against Jesus, only they believe them to be positive assertions!

Jesus ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners, but in every instance where we are given any detail He did so not to “hang out” with them, but to call them to repentance.

Do you think he walked out when the erotic dancers came in?

If any ever did, He may have asked them how many “husbands” they had had …


42. shannon ledford
August 3, 2006
11:18 PM

Oh yeah I always go to the movies for the specific purpose of seeking better ways to stay relevant with the culture. Yep that is always on my mind. Please? Most people go to the movies to escape for a little while from the misery that is their life. Yes, most people if not all who are unsaved are miserable. Thus the reason for so much money being made off of amusement and entertainment. Including everything from chat rooms, ipods, movies ,gambling, music, bookstores etc… you name it people in america can’t sit still and don’t want to sit still for any length of time. To do so would mean they have to face reality. Which is: life is short by the time I figure it out it will be over, when it is over where will I go , what will I be etc… Thus the influence of movies etc… over our culture. What I find so amusing or maybe ironic is how so many who are cutting edge today in ministry claim we have to change everything because the culture is so radically different now. It is a post modern world etc… yada,yada, yada, essentially “they” claim culture is so much more pagan that we have to be more radical and innovative to reach this culture because the culture is so far gone be it toward secularism or whatever. So here is what is funny to me. The answer then is to become “like” culture in order to reach those people? Wow, that is so “deep” dude. So in a nutshell in order to reach a more, pagan society the church must at least pretend to look and act more pagan on the outside to lure the pagans to the truth that is on the inside? Hence the rationalization to see more provocative movies, imitate pagan music, imitate pagan amusements etc… You can never put a shiny, red apple in a bucket of rotten apples and expect the rotten ones to turn into delicious, red apples. The good apple will turn bad everytime. The same goes for the individual, church, movement, school, denom, etc… that trys to be that apple.


43. Bill Barnes
August 3, 2006
11:19 PM

“Jesus ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners, but in every instance where we are given any detail He did so not to “hang out” with them, but to call them to repentance.”

I really might be missing something here so please help me but it seems to me that the people the Lord Jesus was most upset with were the Pharisees. Have I got that wrong? Weren’t they the most seemingly upstandingly people in that culture? He seems to reserve the greatest vitriol for them. They were a people that, in order to appear righteous, made up a lot of extraneous rules to follow. Sort of like the Mormons I suppose. I believe this is the “yeast of the Pharisees” that Christ warns us of. He doesn’t say beware of the “yeast of the sinners”. I am certainly not accusing Tim of creating rules for which movies “good” Christians should see but the feel of his piece makes me uneasy in this regard. I certainly understand the need for Christians to focus on “whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable?if anything is excellent or praiseworthy?think about such things.”

But didn’t Paul also say: 1 Corinthians 9:19 “Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.”

To “those not having the law I became like one not having the law”. I am pretty sure that entails hanging out with sinners.

1 Corinthians 10:27 “If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience’ sake[d]? 29 the other man’s conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another’s conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? 31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God? 33 even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.”

So, for anyone still with me. If you don’t want to go see a movie because you think it will make you stumble please don’t go. And if you think it will make your brother stumble by taking him - please don’t go. But please don’t judge your brothers and sisters in Christ for trying to be “all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some” READ:ENGAGE THE CULTURE!!!!! It is very possible that they are not seeking their own good “but the good of many, so that they may be saved”. Please don’t become Phariseeically smug because you have foregone seeing a popular movie. As Piper somewhere put it - “don’t use the peashooter of legalism against the Abrams tank of sin”. Rely on the blood of Christ and that only.

For the Love of Christ,


44. Brian Thornton
August 4, 2006
12:14 AM

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable.

All things are lawful, but not all things edify.


45. Rob Davis
August 4, 2006
12:56 AM

I don’t believe there is anything that we cannot find something good in. It’s so easy, in our freeze-dried culture, to only look at the face value of things. We ignore aesthetics. We ignore all those involved in the production of a piece of art. Our interpretation of the “content” becomes the judge of whether we can enjoy something, or whether it glorifies God. There are no easy answers here. Descartes was wrong.


46. The Greatest Man Alive
August 4, 2006
7:49 AM

“Most people go to the movies to escape for a little while from the misery that is their life.”

Thank you for telling us. It’s nice to have a prophetess among us. In reality, I can name dozens of friends who view and discuss movies with the purpose of discerning what can be used as a means to point towards the hearts obvious need for redemption. Maybe we are the dozens that are different and happent to be concentrated into one geographic region. Somehow I doubt that.


47. Brian Thornton
August 4, 2006
8:24 AM

Dear ‘Greatest Man Alive’,

It is comments such as yours above that do nothing but tear down others…if you have a point to make or an opinion to share, surely you can do it without the personal ad-hominem? If you can’t, then do us (and the glory of God) a favor and stick to just reading without posting.

Thanks.


48. bill barnes
August 4, 2006
8:34 AM

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable.

All things are lawful, but not all things edify.

1 Corinthians 10:33

“For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.”


49. General Lee
August 4, 2006
10:16 AM

Shannon, Brian, et al, you could learn a lot from “The Dukes Of Hazzard”. In that movie it showed how people put aside their silly ways and traditions like redneckism and racism and learned to change and get along and be productive members of society. There seems to be differences of opinion between you and THE GREATEST MAN ALIVE!, henceforth known as G Man. Healthy debate is good and to be encouraged. I’m sure you all have good points to make, but please remember to be nice to each other and disagree amiably when there is disagreement.


50. blackmambaprof
August 4, 2006
4:03 PM

I appreciated your comments in this post. Have you read Frame’s article “Should Christians Go to Movies”? Any thoughts?


51. Brian Thornton
August 4, 2006
5:13 PM

Shannon, Brian, et al, you could learn a lot from “The Dukes Of Hazzard”.

General Lee, You could learn a lot from Scripture.

There is NOTHING I could learn from a ‘movie’ like Dukes that I can’t just as easily learn from the Bible…and that without all the temptations to my flesh through the lust of the eyes.

I am not against movies, but I am most certainly against the rationale that those put forth to watch certain films under the guise of gleaning redemptive value from them.

Can one see the occasional truth or significant eternal meaning in a film? Sure…but trying to rationalize the viewing of things that are clearly beyond the realm of common sense is an exercise in futility and self-gratification.


52. Bill Barnes
August 4, 2006
7:24 PM

“I appreciated your comments in this post. Have you read Frame’s article “Should Christians Go to Movies”? Any thoughts?”

I did and found it quite helpful.

Thanks,


53. Kenny Archbold
August 4, 2006
8:22 PM

“But what of movies that glorify sin “

You could say the same for music as well


54. shannon ledford
August 4, 2006
11:54 PM

BTW,

I’m a man not a woman. I just happen to have a Irish woman’s name. Also to the G-man, I don’t have a problem with movies and whether a believer goes to them or not. That is up to the individual. I have a problem with evangelicalism’s infatuation with using entertainment in such a way as to give off the impression that the Bible needs to be propped up with such folly of what basically constitutes 90% of pop culture. Pastors that cave in to having to have movie clips, and drama, and song and dance etc… incorporated into their sermons because they think they need to be relevant in order to reach are only contributing to the continuing dumbing down of the average church member. People aren’t saturated enough with sound bites, movie clips, ads,etc… through the week now they can get the same stuff at church. What is sad is the fact that most people need to see a man that is reverent and humble in the pulpit instead what they are getting is some dude who is a hybrid of a gameshow host/stand up comedian /used car salesman trying the latest gimmick to woo in more customers. But hey he is relevant that is what is to be most highly esteemed these days. It is not that people need more gadgets and gizzmos to hold their attention. They need men who have been alone with God until they know what HE has to say instead of spending all their time coordinating how they are going “script” the morning “show”.


55. holmegm
August 5, 2006
8:08 AM

“But what of movies that glorify sin “

You could say the same for music as well

Yes, you could. And should. You should ask of most any activity “is this going to lift me and others up, or will it drag us down?”


56. holmegm
August 5, 2006
8:17 AM

I really might be missing something here so please help me but it seems to me that the people the Lord Jesus was most upset with were the Pharisees. Have I got that wrong?

Not exactly wrong, but it seems that those words resonated with you because you think they apply to others, to the detriment of other words that He spoke (which could perhaps apply to you).

Or to paraphrase C.S. Lewis, every age is most watchful against that which it is in no danger of …

I think that Tim is right to be suspicious of reasoning that just happens to let us:

  1. Fit right in with the world.

  2. Do what we wanted to do anyway


57. nhe
August 7, 2006
10:22 AM

Shannon said:

“Pastors that cave in to having to have movie clips, and drama, and song and dance etc… incorporated into their sermons because they think they need to be relevant in order to reach are only contributing to the continuing dumbing down of the average church member. People aren’t saturated enough with sound bites, movie clips, ads,etc… through the week now they can get the same stuff at church.”

I actually don’t disagree with this, but there are huge exceptions. A well placed film clip from time to time can be hugely effective. We live in a “sound-bite” society. Just because we’re used to responding to well placed sound bites doesn’t mean that we’ve been dumbed down.

Dumbing down sermons is not the problem anyway, a lack of gospel-centric preaching is.


58. General Lee
August 7, 2006
2:14 PM

This has been an interesting discussion. I think one of the greatest lessons we can learn is to watch the commercials to see if we want to see a movie or not. I had been busy with my job and hadn’t seen a lot of tv when the first Lord Of The Rings came out. One day I was out on a sales call towards the end of the day and decided to see a movie instead of fighting rush hour traffic back to the office I hadn’t seen the ads for LOTR and therefore didn’t know anything about it. It just happened to be the only movie available at the time I was at the theatre near my client. I should have known something was wrong when it was a bunch of freakish, weird, gangly type of people in line to get tickets. Of course, in hindsight we all know now that people who like LOTR are generally your very strange, Star Trek convention going loners. This was one of the few movies I’ve walked out of. Without a doubt I should have waited an extra 15 minutes and seen Super Troopers instead.


59. Caleb
August 7, 2006
7:47 PM

I truly hope that you are joking in some way, ‘general’. To seriously say that Super Troopers is in any way superior to Lord of the Rings betrays a serious lack of maturity. I have seen both movies (sad to say in the case of Super Troopers), and I can tell everyone who would want to know that Super Troopers is a very depraved and sinful movie, but Lord of the Rings can cause you to glorify God in many different ways. But I would imagine you would disagree, ‘general’.

-Caleb


60. General Lee
August 8, 2006
9:22 AM

Caleb, I wouldn’t necessarily say that Super Troopers is a cinematic masterpiece, but when you compare it to LOTR it is a much better movie. But whatever man, let’s all just tune in, turn on and drop out. Hey man, free love!

Caleb, did you realize it’s 2006 and not 1969 anymore? Woodstock is over. LOTR is the type of movie that has a cult following. Usually movies that have a cult following attract very strange people, just as Star Trek conventions do. LOTR is a weird, bizarre movie with nothing but Satanic and mystical imagery. The people who are followers of Tolkien are the drug addled hippies of the 60’s. The hippies did have some good things to say. Many of them were very sincere in their beliefs and really did want a peaceful world. But Communism never works. On paper it might seem like a neat idea, but because of man’s selfishness it never works out to be the utopia you want it to be.

Caleb, you are probably a nice older man and I don’t in any way want to be unkind. I suppose the best advice I could give you would be to get off of drugs, realize that the Lovin’ Spoonfuls are no longer in the weekly top 40, quit following the Dead Heads around the country, and get a job. In the end you’ll find this route is better.


61. Sam Oltz
August 9, 2006
2:33 PM

General Lee, your last post is inconsiderate, incorrect and most importantly unchristian. Inconsiderate because you are attacking the person instead of the topic. Incorrect in that J.R. Tolkien was a believer from England and had nothing to do with the Hippie culture you speak of, nor do his “followers.” Unchristian in that your tone and manner of speech do not reflect Christ. I read through every single reply and nearly gagged when I came to yours. It has no place on a site like this. Please consider thinking before you speak.


62. General Lee
August 10, 2006
2:23 PM

Sam, sometimes what we write doesn’t come across the way we want it to. I was in no way trying to be unkind. I realize that it’s hard to convey inflection, tone, etc. in the written word as opposed to the spoken word. I was trying to help Caleb and in no way trying to be mean. He sounds like he’s stuck in the 60’s counter culture and I was just trying to help the man out by giving him some good advice.

This thread is about movies and he said he liked LOTR. I was just trying to make him think if he really wants to be a fan of Tolkien and his Satanic garbage.


63. Clint
August 14, 2006
5:45 PM

This issue is difficult, and while the issue addressed here is done so well, I think it is a bit more complex.

Film is an interesting art (not mere medium). It is rarely considered as such, because it was raised up in penny arcades. It did have an era as being predominantly an art form in the nineteen-teens in France and Germany. The British and Russians at the time were using it in interesting forms of documentary.

However, it was the Hollywood style that seems to have won out—probably on account of the fact that it was the one that appealed to the lowest common denominator and made money doing so. Such is the nature of these things. Almost all forms of media and art were almost immediately used for rather perverted ends—namely pornography (e.g. the porn industry continues to determine what format is to be the next dominant format for the population—often the cheapest).

Thus, almost all of our interaction with film is toward the end of entertainment… a better word would be “amusement”, in that it is often the opposite (“a-“) of inspirationation (“musement”). So, as far as this post goes, I would agree that film as entertainment is largely worthless, and I would be the first to admit that I submit to the mindlessness of it all too often.

However, there is a tremendous amount of excitement in my bones when I consider all the wonderful works of beauty and story and, well, masterful art found on film and video. It really is an amazing medium when orchestrated by a master. Consider the works of Mallick, Aronofsky, von Trier, Greenaway, Anderson (Wes or PT), Bergman, and many more. They weave images into stories that are on par with fine literature but are so unique to exciting, relatively new medium.

Of course God is not continuing his special revelation through celluloid, but to throw aside an art form on account of its pulp would be like throwing aside literature on account of, well, its pulp. The Church has already severed far too many connections with aesthetic beauty and tasteful art. We need not alienate film before we ever give it an actual chance.

Rather, be not lazy about engaging in the arts. In the very least, if you are going to largely condemn a form, be not lazy about researching it.

And the blogosphere arrogantly marched onward another day, published yet hardly distinguished.