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Welcome to the online home of Tim Challies, blogger, author and web designer. My first book, "The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment," is now available everywhere.

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11/16/06
Comments (58)

Plagiarism In The Pulpit

Two months ago, Suzanne Sataline published an article in the Wall Street Journal. The article was cleverly titled “Veneration Gap: A Popular Strategy For Church Growth Splits Congregants” and dealt with churches that had been split apart through the attempts of their leaders to convert them to the Purpose Driven paradigm. Last month I wrote an article that was, in part, inspired by that one. I wrote about the church’s dirty laundry and expressed concern that Christians should be very careful in what they say to the media.

Sataline has once again published an article in the Wall Street Journal and, once again, it discusses problems in the church. Sataline got in touch with me not too long ago and we spoke on the phone for some time. I could see that she was hunting for stories. She has trolled around the blogosphere looking for tips on interesting and controversial articles. She found what she was looking for with the topic of plagiarism. Her latest article, published yesterday, is called That Sermon You Heard on Sunday May Be From the Web. The subtitle is “Rev. Moon Buys His for $10, Others Get Them Free; ‘Sizzling’ vs. Plagiarism.” It begins like this:

The Rev. Brian Moon says he has come up with ideas for his sermons after water-skiing, while watching “My Name Is Earl” on TV and while working on his 1969 Buick muscle car. He also finds inspiration on the Internet, as he did in August when he preached about “God’s math.”

“People are drowning, drowning in their marriages, drowning in their careers, drowning in hurtful habits,” Mr. Moon told his congregation at Church of the Suncoast, in Land o’ Lakes, Fla. “They need someone to rescue them and bring them on the raft. They need people driven by God’s addition.”

Those words, it turns out, were first uttered three years ago by the Rev. Ed Young, pastor of Fellowship Church in Grapevine, Texas. His Web site, creativepastors.com, sells transcripts of this and others sermons for $10 each.

Moon defends his use of another pastors’ sermon, saying that there is no sense reinventing the wheel. When he finds a good sermon he feels there is no reason not to use it. He also feels that there is no need to give credit to author of the sermon or to notify his congregation that the sermon is not his own. “If you got something that’s a good product, why go out and beat your head against the wall and try to come up with it yourself?”

Sataline says “The widespread buying of packaged wisdom has touched off a debate about ethics, especially after incidents in which pastors have resigned over plagiarism allegations. Some members of the clergy say sermon sales diminish religious oratory and undermine both scholarship and the trust between ministers and their flocks.” She then provides quotes from a variety of Christians, some of whom are in favor of using other peoples’ sermons, and others who feel this is nothing short of plagiarism. She writes of a church that was damaged by a pastor who plagiarized his sermons and refused to stop doing so. She quotes Rick Warren and Steve Sjogren, both of whom are advocates of preaching other people’s sermons without providing attribution.

My reaction to this article was two-fold. First, I considered the problem addressed in this article.

I consider what pastors are doing when they preach another person’s sermon to be plagiarism. An article on Desiring God’s site attempts to define plagiarism and does quite a good job of it. “The essence of plagiarism is to give the impression that the ideas or words of another person are actually your own. This can be done intentionally (in which case it is outright theft) or unintentionally-but either way it is wrong.” It is important to note the words “give the impression.” A pastor who preaches a sermon that is not his own is typically attempting to give the impression that he wrote the sermon—that he did the research, studied the Bible, thought of appropriate stories or analogies, and assembled a convicting message. And yet, when the sermon is taken from another person, none of this is true. The pastor may have modified elements on the sermon, but he has not invested the time or effort in serving his congregation by doing the long and hard work of sermon preparation.

A couple of weeks ago we had a touching moment in our church. My pastor, immediately before he began to deliver his sermon, addressed the congregation, thanking them for providing him with the opportunity of being supported in the privilege of spending his weeks studying the Bible. As a pastor, he feels his most important responsibility (and his greatest privilege) is in studying God’s Word, and then delivering that Word to the people. In an interview I conducted recently with Mark Dever, he said much the same: that a pastor’s primarily responsibility is to serve his church by absorbing himself in the study of the Bible. Rarely can a church outgrow the pastor. The pastor must lead the way in studying the Word. This must be his primary occupation and must take precedence over other tasks, and even important tasks, such as pastoral counselling or providing leadership.

A pastor who plagiarizes sermons is clearly not fulfilling his primary responsibility. He is not investing time and effort in studying the Word, in understanding the Word, and in helping others understand what God has taught him. Furthermore, he is being unethical in allowing his congregation to believe that the sermons he delivers are his own work. I don’t think it is always wrong to preach sermons written by another person. I heard of a pastor who preached a series called “Sermons I Wish I’d Written.” He did not try to pass these sermons off as his own, but simply wanted to provide his congregation with what he considered some of history’s greatest sermons. Surely this is far different from a person who preaches those same sermons while pretending that he has written them himself.

Of course we would be remiss to read about this issue and to neglect asking why pastors feel it necessary to preach other peoples’ sermons. I’m sure that in some cases pastors are simply lazy and are looking for a way to avoid what can be a long, tedious task. But in many cases I suspect pastors preach these sermons because they feel their congregations will demand a certain quality and a certain level of entertainment that they cannot provide. The spirit of pragmatism lives in the church today and I know of many pastors who have succumbed to it. They feel that their congregations will be better served by a sermon that is witty and contemporary than by a pastor who absorbs himself in a week-long study of the Bible. Some churches expect far too much of their pastors, demanding that they be leaders and entertainers more than preachers. Some pastors are not allowed sufficient time to adequately prepare their sermons. In many cases, the pressure for plagiarism may well originate in the pews and not in the pulpit.

After considering the problem addressed in the article, I considered the article itself. The fears I felt when speaking to Sataline have been confirmed. Though not a Christian herself (I know because I asked her), she clearly has some interest in church-based controversies and is likely to continue writing about them for she told me that she has many other stories she is working on. Why she has this interest in the church I do not know. But I would urge caution to other Christians in speaking with her or with other unbelievers who are seeking stories about the church. As I said in this article, I think it is wise to exercise care and discernment in speaking to the press. Here is what I wrote last month:

My opinion towards commenting to the mainstream media is that I am exceedingly cautious. There are several reasons for this. First, I see little reason to provide examples of Christian infighting to the world. There have always been and will always be struggles within the church and, in general, I think it is best that these remain within the church lest they damage the church’s testimony. Second, I see little reason to hope that the press will somehow help or resolve the issues that we wrestle with as Christians. Without the Spirit they cannot properly understand the issues and without the Spirit they have no hope of commenting on them in a way that is truly helpful. Third, I have little confidence that the press will be honest and unbiased in their presentation of information. If I did not believe this before MacArthur made his appearance on CNN, I certainly believe it now. In short, while the press may give wide exposure to a particular problem, and while it may somehow seem to validate a particular blog or blogger, I don’t know that it is at all helpful.

I don’t know of many people who would talk to the press about the problems in their families. If I found that a local reporter was attempting to write a negative story about my wife, and if she approached me asking me for stories about Aileen that she could use, I would never help her! I would explain that I love my wife and would never do anything to hurt her. Likewise, I love the church, for we are a family, and I would be very hesitant to air out her dirty laundry in front of the world.

Plagiarism In The Pulpit

Comments (58) »


1. Jeff Noble
November 16, 2006
10:36 AM

Tim, Just love your site. Fantastic design, layout, etc. Content is even better. Thanks for the time you take to write, research, and edify.

This topic has been one of concern to me as well - both from the plagiarism angle and also from the angle of an eagerness to air the church’s dirty laundry before the world.

I posted today, albeit briefly, of my eagerness to read your forthcoming tome. Looking forward to it.


2. connie
November 16, 2006
10:39 AM

Sadly, sermon buying/borrowing is not a new practice—just made easier with the internet.

In the mid 90’s we lived in a small rural community (mid-southern U.S.) where my husband pastored a small congregation of reformed believers. It was COMMON knowledge among the community that the pastor of a large mainline denomination church used “prepared” sermons from a “service” to which he subscribed.

Of course, our initial response was surprise, but that soon turned into pity and sorrow for those who sat under his teaching and shepherding. It served as a vivid illustration and contrast of what a “Shepherd” is willing (or not willing) to do/sacrifice for his flock, and the resulting spiritual fruit God grants (or withholds).

I couldn’t help but be reminded of Baxter’s book “The Reformed Pastor” which has shaped not only my husband’s ministry, but so many men/elders/pastors I know and respect. I’m so grateful for God’s mercy in providing Godly men who truly desire to search His word, be changed by it, and proclaim it with personal conviction.


3. Dr Mike
November 16, 2006
10:42 AM

Tim:

Good stuff.

As you may recall, I was a writer at a daily newspaper for 12-13 years when I was young(er). I know from experience and by speaking with many other reporters in various types of media that there is a lot of in-fighting, back-stabbing, arguing, and strong words expressed in the editorial (reporting) department of most papers or newsrooms. Veritable family feuds. And yet we never hear a word of it.

Why not? Journalists and editors might argue that no one would be interested but, given the power and popularity of some writers and papers, I think there would be a audience eager to learn about the dirt in the ink or the stench in the air(waves). They could reply that it is none of the public’s business but that, of course, would comeback at them very quickly.

For all the desire and fervor reporters have to violate the privacy of others, they are very protective and scrupulous to keep private the skeletons in their own offices. Hypocrisy? Of course it is. Surprising? Not at all. Why should we expect anything else from a secular press than for them to be faithful slaves of the master whom they serve?

You are correct to emphasize and exhort us to be protective of - not our own wives but - the Bride of Christ. We need to be careful not to participate in any molestation or rape that the world seeks to inflict upon her: judgment will fall on the molester, but also on those of us who facilitated it or stood watching and saying nothing during the assault.


4. theologian
November 16, 2006
10:51 AM

Excellent post. I did a post over on Theology Online that dealt with a similar issue … http://www.theologyonline.org/blog/?p=89


5. jc
November 16, 2006
11:12 AM

Tim,

I like your point, contrasted with plagiaristic preaching, about the pastor who wants to immerse himself in the Bible for the good of the church. I am an elder, and our pastor (staff elder) desires this (thank God), but finds that pressure is put on him to do other things that take away from sermon preparation. The rest of the elders are trying to get that distraction away from him and keep him on task, but it is a challenge. We want to equip the saints to do the stuff they should be doing so he doesn’t feel the need to do it himself.


6. Peter Smythe
November 16, 2006
11:19 AM

Paul wrote that it did not matter whether the preacher was preaching with an impure motive as long as the Gospel, itself, was being preached. From that I believe that it’s not a hard leap to say that we shouldn’t care about plagiarism as long as the truth is told. Why would I, as a minister, be concerned about another minister using “my” material if it is used to preach to the unsaved or to grow the Body of Christ anyway?

I have a copyright notice on my blog just as a precaution against my written material being taken out of context by some unscrupulous characters. You just never know on the internet, but I agree with John Osteen’s answer, “Copyright? Sure there is a copyright on my material. You have a right to copy anything you want.”


7. Chris
November 16, 2006
11:19 AM

Tim:

Did it ever cross your mind that the reason that Ms. Sataline contacted you was because you are a prominent Christian blogger who regularly criticizes, critiques, and publicly reports on the teachings, methodologies and behavior of certain Christian authors and leaders?

While I agree in principle with your basic premise that churches shouldn’t arbitrarily “air their dirty laundry” to the world, I believe there are some very serious and biblical exceptions that you didn’t point out. One of them deals with churches that refuse to deal with devastating sin within their “family,” and sweep it under the rug. The other deals with the responsibility Christian bloggers like yourself have to biblically contend for the truth in the public forum of the Internet.

Considering your comments here, I wonder what responsibility or culpability do you think you have in this matter? Don’t some of your insights on church matters come from reports you read in the worldwide press, including Christian sources? And what part do you play in deciminating this information to the world?


8. Jabbok
November 16, 2006
11:31 AM

When I first surrendered to preach I was handed a stack of books by my pastor. They were all “Sermon Starters” which contained brief - I. II. III. - outlines of possible sermon ideas. I was also told to use the topical index of a Thompson Chain Reference Bible to discover sermon material.

There is nothing new under the sun and I don’t think it’s possible to preach without adding ideas and knowledge that you gain from studying the works of other men of God. However, I’m sure that the discussion here has to do with those men who take a sermon from another and preach it line for line as their own, including illustrations and anecdotes.

I had a Homiletics class in Seminary and our professor was very excited about a guest that would be preaching in an upcoming chapel service. He told us “young preacher boys” to pay attention because this man would show us the right way to develop and deliver a sermon. He came and he preached an Adrian Rogers sermon nearly word for word. It was very disappointing.


9. Scott McClare
November 16, 2006
11:33 AM

Tim, you wrote:

The pastor must lead the way in studying the Word. This must be his primary occupation and must take precedence over other tasks, and even important tasks, such as pastoral counselling or providing leadership.

A pastor who plagiarizes sermons is clearly not fulfilling his primary responsibility. He is not investing time and effort in studying the Word, in understanding the Word, and in helping others understand what God has taught him.

I think this is probably the single best argument against the practice of “plagiarism in the pulpit” that I’ve seen. The pastor must be a step ahead of the congregation in his study and knowledge of the Bible. Buying a sermon outline from the Net might edify his hearers on Sunday morning, but it’s not going to do any good on Wednesday afternoon when a member comes into his office with a problem, and he needs a biblical answer. Only personal study, not canned sermons, can supply that answer.


10. Scott McClare
November 16, 2006
11:35 AM

Oh, and speaking of unintentional plagiarism, I should have tagged that second paragraph as Tim’s work too. :)


11. Jim Crigler
November 16, 2006
11:42 AM

On a lighter note re: plagiarism: In Christianity Today in the late ’70s or early ’80s, in the column “Eutychus and His Kin” (a humor column), a fictitious 19th century Anglican minister or Roman Catholic priest was quoted as saying,

There once was a preacher named Spurgy Who frowned on our liturgy. But his sermons were fine, so I preached them as mine, as did the rest of the clergy.


12. Brian
November 16, 2006
12:00 PM

Tim,

You make a good argument but I have a question. Your blogs frequently air “dirty laundry” and are very widely read. How is this consistent with your position? I’m not trying to trap you; I simply wonder how it is different.


13. Bill Jones (no, really)
November 16, 2006
12:27 PM

If the on-line sermon selling services are so good I see a great opportunity for churches to simply eliminate the job of senior pastor completely. Have a plurality of elders (none of them paid) and assign each one of them the task of finding an on-line sermon for a particular week or month. After the hymns have been sung a simple announcement could be made, “Today’s sermon, originally written by Pastor XYZ, will be read by Elder ABC.”


14. Tim Challies
November 16, 2006
12:57 PM

“Your blogs frequently air “dirty laundry” and are very widely read. How is this consistent with your position? I’m not trying to trap you; I simply wonder how it is different.”

It is entirely possible that I am blind to my own faults, but I don’t think I do a whole lot of “tearing down.” I used to do this, for sure, but was convicted that my site was beginning a rapid decline into a “watchblog” and decided, almost subconsciously, I think, to change the focus. There are times still when I urge caution towards another person within the church, but I do think this site has a far different emphasis than that.

When I do speak about a believer whom I believe has erred, I attempt to do so in a constructive way. I believe the context of writing this on my site, which is read primarily by Christians, is different than answering the questions of an unbelieving reporter who is digging for dirt on the church.

We could easily take my caution too far, to the point that many Christian books could not be written, and so on. There is clearly a time and place for Christians to go public with disagreements, but I don’t think speaking to a reporter who has no desire for healing or reconciliation is the best option.


15. Rong
November 16, 2006
12:58 PM

Tim I can’t say AMEN loud enough.

In reference to any minister of the Word - I can certainly understand reading another pastors sermon and getting some ideas from it, but that’s all you should be doing! If my tithing’s are being used for your salary then it is my expectation that you have done your own research and drawn your own conclusions after careful study and prayer. If all you are going to do is read someone else’s sermon, no matter how good it may be, and call it your own, well my friend we have some excellent orators within the body of saints at this church and they would be more than willing to do this with little to no recompense!

(dismounting from my soapbox)

With total love in my heart I really feel for the position JC’s pastor finds himself in. Pastors have an unearthly amount of responsibilities to their congregation. If they cannot have time to separate themselves from administering to their people in order to delve into the Word then this is what’s going to happen. This or some very shallow teaching. Either way no one wins.

Great article Tim. On another note can I say that the way you describe Ms. Sataline just plain scares me.


16. Tim Challies
November 16, 2006
1:03 PM

“On another note can I say that the way you describe Ms. Sataline just plain scares me.”

I didn’t mean to be scary. She seems like a nice woman and one who is just doing her job. Newspapers need to feature what is interesting and controversial. It’s just that, in this case, what she finds interesting is what I find embarrassing.


17. donsands
November 16, 2006
1:19 PM

Peter,

“we shouldn’t care about plagiarism as long as the truth is told”

Pretense preaching is still wrong. God does not endorse deception. It causes strife.

“Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; … and selfish ambition … Let nothing be done through strife of vainglory [selfish ambition]” Phil. 1:15;2:3

Paul’s rejoicing in people preaching in order to bring him affliction is quite an extraordinary statement. But he’s not condoning and encouraging preaching to be done that way, I’m sure.

Very fine post. Good stuff to know.


18. Jerry M
November 16, 2006
1:53 PM

Tim - I think you nailed it when you said, ‘The spirit of pragmatism lives in the church today’

Many churches put on a good show and the sermon is another part of the performance. Who cares who wrote it/ researched it - if it creates the right effect?

We need to return to the idea of a man of God bringing the Word of God as part of his role in shepherding the flock of God.

Plagiarism is one more example of a market driven mentality

I Cor. 2:17 - ‘For we are not like many peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.’


19. Ian
November 16, 2006
1:55 PM

Tim,

I am a frequent blog reader, yet I do not post much. It is probably a form of pride that when I post I want to be profound.

But I do have a question on this topic, so I will post. What is the difference between being given direction, guidance, and assistance for sermon preparation from another sermon, book, article, commentary and plagiarism. I am not talking about the straight up memorization and delivery of another sermon. Rather I am talking about when I say from the pulpit, “God is glorified in me when I am satisfied in Christ.” We all know who helps us say it that way. But is it plagiarism not to give Piper credit anytime we use Christian Hedonism language in our sermons?

I am just seeking clarification on a very valid point you are raising.

Grace and Peace,

Ian


20. Kyle
November 16, 2006
2:36 PM

Ian,

Tim linked to an article by the Desiring God folks in his post. Here’s the link again:

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/QuestionsAndAnswers/ByTitle/1623Whatis_plagiarism/

Reading it will answer your question.

Anyone who knows,

I can’t figure out how to use text effects in my comments here, such as typing in bold or italics, creating a hyperlink, etc. Any insight?

Kyle


21. Greg
November 16, 2006
3:15 PM

Thanks for speaking to this issue, Tim. While sermon resources on the internet are a great blessing for complimenting and sharpening personal sermon prep (e.g. sermons of John Piper, Spurgeon, and many others), I recently encountered this problem first hand. I’ve been preaching in John 12, and in my preparation a few weeks ago reviewed an online sermon by John Piper from 1995. A few days later, I found a sermon by a pastor in San Diego on the same passage, which this man had preached in 2003. With the exception of a few “tweaks” here and there to personalize the sermon to sound like his own, this man had simply “cut and pasted” the majority of Piper’s sermon, with absolutely no credit given to the source. I’ve emailed the church to express my discovery and dissappointment. Its a sad illustration of the problem you speak of. How critical for all of us who have been called by God to preach to be men of integrity in all things!


22. Brian
November 16, 2006
3:27 PM

Tim,

Thanks for your reply (post 14). I do notice that you don’t blog about “dirty laundry” all that often (my use of “frequently” was the wrong word). And, I agree that when you do I’ve noticed an attempt to be constructive (consider the Ted Haggard blog). So, thank you for the response. I really wrestled with this particular issue and still don’t know exactly what we should do. Many people I’ve spoken with are glad the WSJ printed the article because it could serve to enlighten hurting churches as to why they have no power in their pulpits. But, the ultimate motive of that periodical isn’t to the glory of God, so again I am torn.


23. connie
November 16, 2006
3:40 PM

To those who don’t see any particular problem with borrowing/buying/copying/presenting sermons prepared by and delivered by other men -

I am reminded that the very process of studying, searching, preparing and delivering a sermon is one of God’s greatest tools to refine, strengthen and equip His servants. I fear that those who make a practice of this “shoot themselves in the foot” spiritually, and subsequently starve their sheep.

Please don’t get me wrong, I certainly understand (I’m a pastor’s wife) the time constraints and the pressures of ministering to the flock throughout the week—not just Sunday. My point (and my plea) is that we need men who feast at the table and drink deeply from the well God has provided in His word, so that the Shepherd and the sheep may be fed and watered well.


24. connie
November 16, 2006
3:46 PM

If you please, a bit of CLARIFICATION may be necessary on my most recent comment:

I wrote, “…I fear that those who make a practice of this “shoot themselves in the foot” spiritually, and subsequently starve their sheep.”

It SHOULD read, “…those who make a practice of using the sermons of others “shoot themselves…”

Thank you!


25. Brian at voiceofthesheep
November 16, 2006
3:48 PM

Hi Tim,

Excellent post. I posted on this as well on my site …I’d like to say that great minds think alike, but I don’t want to do damage to your much higher status as a blogger than mine (smiling here).

I would like to quote a bit of me from my blog on this issue…I gave myself permission so I don’t think it should be unethical for me to put forth the following quote as if I had actually said it:

“Well, truth is most certainly truth. And I agree that there is no sense reinventing the wheel when it comes to truth. The problem here is that what these ‘preachers’ are buying and downloading and in some instances presenting as their own material isn’t truth. Guys like Ed Young and Rick Warren aren’t packaging and selling biblical expositions of the word of God…they are instead marketing cleverly designed presentations of cool anecdotal stories, flashy visual aides and man-centered psychological how-to’s. In other words, they are marketing canned presentations of law rather than gospel.”


26. wfseube
November 16, 2006
5:07 PM

Tim, I do not disagree with the main thesis of your article, which is “plagiarism of sermons is wrong”. However, I think there may be a couple of places where one should consider some different facets of the problem. First, you state:

A pastor who preaches a sermon that is not his own is typically attempting to give the impression that he wrote the sermon.
I’m not convinced that’s the case. I think they are frequently remiss in not attributing the sermon to its original author, but I think it’s a stretch to accuse pastors of dishonesty…unless there is evidence that that’s the case, I’d prefer to say that they are careless with their references.

Second, you state:

I’m sure that in some cases pastors are simply lazy and are looking for a way to avoid what can be a long, tedious task. But in many cases I suspect pastors preach these sermons because they feel their congregations will demand a certain quality and a certain level of entertainment that they cannot provide.
I agree with you on both of those assessments, but (like you) I don’t know that those are adequate excuses. I also submit that there may be a related factor at work here: pastors are now so burdened with other responsibilities that they feel it necessary to take a short-cut to that weekly sermon. This is not laziness, it is a lack of time to do an adequate job on the sermon. This is directly related to your assertion that “(studying the word) must be his primary occupation and must take precedence over other tasks, and even important tasks, such as pastoral counselling or providing leadership.” I believe that plagiarism is a symptom of a larger problem - the role of the pastor and the lack of recognition of the pastor’s primary role, which you have already stated.

Many pastors simply don’t recognize the sermon as the most critical part of their job. I believe this is related to the deterioration of the role of the pastor and preaching at the hands of emerging church and/or church growth philosophies. Pastors I’ve encountered believe that the congregations don’t like sermons - boring, too long, too hard to understand. So the other parts of the pastoral job take precedence.

One other note: in my job, I do a lot of Powerpoint presenting. Inside my company, there is a lot of “cross-pollination” of presentations. My colleagues and I constantly use slides in one another’s presentations. This “reuse” is commonplace and accepted. This past summer I had a college intern working with me, and when I made some comment about using someone’s PPT slides, she said “in the university, that’s called ‘plagiarism’, and I responded “Here at ABC, it’s known as ‘reuse’”. I think there’s been a general “softening” of attitudes about things such as plagairism, stealing, etc. (witness the lack of concern in the general populace regarding ripping music or videos).

Oh well, so much for my ramblings. Now someone can come along and plagairize my brilliant writing. :-)

bill


27. Ken
November 16, 2006
5:23 PM

Hi Tim,

I’m not really trying to come down on either side here, but I remembered an interesting thing as I read your post and I’d be curious to hear what you think. I might have this wrong, but I think I remember reading in Billy Graham’s book “Just As I Am” that when he (and many other preachers of the day) were seminary students just starting out, as guest preachers in churches they’d preach sermons from famous preachers and practice them until they could preach them word for word. It sounded like a fairly common practice back then, and wasn’t viewed as anything negative. I’m not sure if they gave credit to the original preacher or not.

Just thought this was interesting. =) What do you think?


28. Kenny Archbold
November 16, 2006
5:44 PM

I’m not a very good writer and am not able to come up with any profuond comment so I’ll just steal one.

25 Hi Tim,

Excellent post. I posted on this as well on my site …I’d like to say that great minds think alike, but I don’t want to do damage to your much higher status as a blogger than mine (smiling here).

I would like to quote a bit of me from my blog on this issue…I gave myself permission so I don’t think it should be unethical for me to put forth the following quote as if I had actually said it:

“Well, truth is most certainly truth. And I agree that there is no sense reinventing the wheel when it comes to truth. The problem here is that what these ‘preachers’ are buying and downloading and in some instances presenting as their own material isn’t truth. Guys like Ed Young and Rick Warren aren’t packaging and selling biblical expositions of the word of God…they are instead marketing cleverly designed presentations of cool anecdotal stories, flashy visual aides and man-centered psychological how-to’s. In other words, they are marketing canned presentations of law rather than gospel.”


29. Michael
November 16, 2006
5:54 PM

I’ve read through the comments posted above and agree with most everything that has been stated. I was a member of the church referenced in the article posted in the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday, and I can tell you that our body is polarized and on the brink of collapse. Though I believe plagiarism is utterly wrong, threatens the viability of the church and undermines the office of pastor, the issue is probably only the tip of the iceburg.

In the midst of the turmoil our church was experiencing, I contacted a source at the headquarters of Adrian Rogers’ ministry he began years ago (Love Worth Finding). The reason I called was to solicit feedback and counsel about the situation our church was facing and because our pastor chose to plagiarize sermons by Adrian Rogers on a regular basis. After expressing sadness over our situation, he made the following comment that stuck in my mind: “Usually plagiarism is only the tip of the iceburg and there are probably other issues the pastor is struggling with”. Man was that prophetic. In the subsequent months our former pastor has left the ministry altogether and is in the process of divorcing his wife and two sons.

There were allegations of financial impropriety and other abuses of power, but the bottom line to the whole situation is pride. Our pastor’s “ministry” became his god. His pride and arrogance have destroyed him and fractured many relationships in the wake of his practices. Unfortunately, I am partly to blame for his demise. I became lazy and took my relationship with the Lord for granted. I allowed myself to remain content with “sermonettes” laced with milk instead of feasting on the meat of the Word.

Our focus was on “the man” instead of the God of all creation. A friend of mine (we’ll call him Greg) made a very apropos statement a few weeks back that described succintly how we allowed this to happen……..”we have grown up to be just like dad”.


30. Donny Pauling
November 16, 2006
6:18 PM

Personally, I don’t have a problem with one pastor using the works of another. Sometimes there are sermons so good they need to be shared.

Off topic: I love your blog. I’m looking to replace Blogger as my publishing engine soon, so I’ve been noticing the layout and features of others. This one ROCKS!


31. lisa4given
November 16, 2006
6:51 PM

While I do think intentional plagiarim is wrong, I have found that I might fall into the camp of unintentional at times. I read alot of books. Sometimes when I am in conversation with people I may try to explain something and in the process of explanation think to myself… “I know I have read something on what I just said somewhere…” So I may say “I read that somewhere, but really can’t remember where right now.” Sometimes I do the same thing in writing. I will think of something as I write, not so much as though I think it is an original thought, but I will do my best to find out where I got the idea from. People reword the same thing over and over and it becomes known as so-and-so’s quote. We can get carried away here on both ends. This is essentially an issue of prayerful discernment. As far as airing the dirty laundry of the church… the example of your wife was brilliant. I have found it tempting to do this… and I admit I may have out of both frustration and wanting to sincerely warn. I pray not out of a heart to mock… God-willing I hope I have not done that…


32. Dr Mike
November 16, 2006
7:20 PM

You who do not see the theft of the intellectual property of another or passing off as one’s own what is in truth the fruit of another are blinded by their sin. Do you not know that your wickedness makes you as it were heavy as lead, and to tend downwards with great weight and pressure towards hell; and if God should let you go, you would immediately sink and swiftly descend and plunge into the bottomless gulf, and your healthy constitution, and your own care and prudence, and best contrivance, and all your righteousness, would have no more influence to uphold you and keep you out of hell, than a spider’s web would have to stop a falling rock.

Were it not for the sovereign pleasure of God, the earth would not bear you one moment; for you are a burden to it; the creation groans with you; the creature is made subject to the bondage of your corruption, not willingly; the sun does not willingly shine upon you to give you light to serve sin and Satan; the earth does not willingly yield her increase to satisfy your lusts; nor is it willingly a stage for your wickedness to be acted upon; the air does not willingly serve you for breath to maintain the flame of life in your vitals, while you spend your life in the service of God’s enemies.

God’s creatures are good, and were made for men to serve God with, and do not willingly subserve to any other purpose, and groan when they are abused to purposes so directly contrary to their nature and end. And the world would spew you out, were it not for the sovereign hand of him who hath subjected it in hope. There are the black clouds of God’s wrath now hanging directly over your heads, full of the dreadful storm, and big with thunder; and were it not for the restraining hand of God, it would immediately burst forth upon you.

The sovereign pleasure of God, for the present, stays his rough wind; otherwise it would come with fury, and your destruction would come like a whirlwind, and you would be like the chaff on the summer threshing floor.

There. That’s all I have to say.


33. david
November 16, 2006
8:05 PM

Relax, Dr Mike. Their foot shall slide in due time.


34. jane
November 16, 2006
8:17 PM

I am amazed! I read all these comments and found very little to witness to what I perceive as the reason for preaching to one congregation every week from the pulpit. I believe that the Lord has a message for that individual church for that time. Consider the concept of reinventing the wheel. We do it all the time when we build cars, bikes, gears, and any number of new technological tools. Each church has a unique gathering of individuals who are equipped to minister as the Body of Christ every moment of the day and night. A sermon is supposed to be based on the Word of God and inspired by the Spirit of God. One size does not fit all. The infinite variation of each congregation calls for a uniquely crafted and delivered message. When did that change? Not only is there a time of growth and discipline in the study of the Word for the Pastor, but that is naturally then delivered with all its life to the flock.


35. Veritas
November 16, 2006
8:28 PM

My brother heard a preacher of the AOG persuasion preach a sermon on the Sermon on the Mount with particular emphasis on the meek shall inherit the earth etc etc. He did think it was a pretty lame sermon. The next day upon examination of a book by Schuller on the Sermon on the Mount revealed that the preacher had simply read the whole chapter on Meekness virtually word for word without any reference that he was plagiarising or just reading out a chapter. What made it so offensive is that it was such dribble and piffle. Not only had the preacher been so slack as to not prepare a real or decent sermon but he had chosen such a poor interpretation to plagiarise. I wouldn’t mind too much if preachers read/use others work but they should do two things: 1. Give a bit of reference/credit to the original author 2. Choose a decent, accurate, fair dinkum exposition of Scripture.


36. Tony
November 16, 2006
9:53 PM

Sure plagiarism is wrong! But I’m just thinking …

If you were to ask the person who originally wrote the sermon they would tell you that God gave it to them—in their (false) humility they would take no credit for it. So, God owns it; if He gave it to one can’t He give it to another?

Same message, different personality.

Further, aren’t we all plagiarists—afterall, we preach (or should) from the Bible!


37. Ed Darrell
November 16, 2006
10:33 PM

Some of George Washington’s greatest speeches were ghost written. Should we call him a plagiarist? Should we drive him from his pulpit?

Plagiarism generally suggests the use of another’s material without their knowledge and against their consent. The second part is missing here.

Most of us have sat through enough bad sermons that we’d be happy to sit through a well-delivered sermon borrowed from other sources.


38. Jerry M
November 17, 2006
7:21 AM

Ed - you’re just proving Tim’s point that this issue is perhaps partially fueled by the people in the pew.

The issue is: ‘Is it morally right for a guy to pass off another man’s sermon as his own work without giving credit?’

If a college student turns in a paper that turns out to be a copy of someone else’s work - and the professor discovers this - they get an F for plagiarism

It’s a whole different ball game - if the preacher gives credit to where the sermon came from and the congregation thinks that he is such a good deliverer as to be worth his salary anyway.

IOW - I think it can be granted that it is not ‘sin’ to preach another man’s sermon. It becomes sin though - when we pass it off as our own work - when it wasn’t. That is the sin of dishonesty.


39. donsands
November 17, 2006
9:26 AM

Seems there is a fine line here that we need to walk as disciples of Christ. The most important principle is to be honest with humilty. This is what I have gleaned so far from all the good comments. Lisa said, “This is essentially an issue of prayerful discernment”. I agree. And I also believe if we have this attitude, then the Lord is pleased, and we need not be on our guard so much as we share all the teachings and lessons we have accumulated in our minds over the years.


40. Jay
November 17, 2006
9:56 AM

Plagiarism is not the disease, it is the symptom of the disease. Just like the fever is the symptom of the infection. It stems from laziness. True annoited men of God would not want to do anything but study and apply the Word of God. We have the mistaken impression that every pastor is an annoited man of God. They are all not and scripture bares that out as well. Are men that tickle the ears of there followers annoited? I would say no. 1 Tim 4:16 says it best “Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.”


41. Marc
November 17, 2006
11:27 AM

I am not a preacher but I have read many sermons that excited me so much that I thought if I could just memorize this it would be great to preach it to anyone. My initial intent would be to get others to be as excited by the content as me. Since it would be really good I imagine that I would receive many compliments from others and I probably would forget to mention the source (a sermon taken from someone else and not God). I can certainly see why I am not called by God to preach.


42. DLE
November 17, 2006
11:34 AM

In discussing this subjects, we’re overlooking enormous realities:

  1. What is the role of a pastor? Is it to merely preach or to minister in other ways to his flock? That question must be answered first before any of this conversation begins. If the sermon is the ne plus ultra of the entire week, then a man who plagiarizes entire messages has some explaining to do. But if it’s not, and the congregation understands the one delivering the message is repeating someone else’s words, then is there a real problem if all the other duties of pastor are well met?

  2. Part of preparing for a sermon must include reading what great Christians have said before us. Whether we directly or indirectly quote them, we’re still relying on their wisdom. If there is nothing new under the sun, then the great sermons have already been preached. To FAIL to incorporate them into our messages for the Church today would actually be letting the Church down (because God’s truth never changes), while simultaneously diminishing the role of Christians who have gone on before. If we are not building on previously spoken wisdom by godly men, we deprive our listeners. In truth, no sermon exists in a vacuum.

  3. If a great preacher like George Whitefield routinely preached the same basic sermon core in his revival travels, was he plagiarizing himself? Obviously not. What then is the great distinction between Whitefield requoting himself and another preacher quoting Whitefield’s words? Very little, truly. If the message is inspired by the Holy Spirit, is it not applicable to all men? Some here seem not to think so. (But then they fall into the trap of affirming that unique revelations must exist for unique audiences—the “there can’t be any new revelations or else we’re opening the canon” dilemma.)

Yes, lifting large chunks of someone else’s sermon can pose problems. But we’ve got to be very careful with any kind of blanket statement about the ethics of doing so. Situations may arise where the practice is called for.

If there’s a problem here, I think the greater one is the SELLING of sermons. That’s turning the inspiration of the Holy Spirit into profit. If a church wishes to pay a man to pastor or preach, that’s one thing. But to take a Gospel message by the Holy Spirit and turn it into a moneymaking venture, that’s wrong.


43. Dan Evans
November 17, 2006
10:01 PM

Hi Tim, Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I would like to wade into the discussion on plagiarism. I recently went through a situation where our top Senior Pastoral candidate was accused of plagiarism when he candidated at our church. I spent a significant amount of time researching and interviewing people who had been accused of plagiarism to resolve this matter and discovered a number of important issues.

First, there often is a difference of opinion on the subject between academicians and pastors. In academia we are taught to give credit for everything that is not ours. We are also taught that to fail to do this is grounds for failing classes, expulsion from school or dismissal from faculty-possibly even litigation.

Second, pulpit ministry is not academia. The title of one of the best books on preaching “The Art of Prophecy” gives us some insight that preaching (in the words of James McDonald) is “delivering the Word of God to God’s people”. If preaching is essentially giving the Word of God then the logical question that follows is “how can God’s Word be plagiarized?” Prominent preachers such as John MacArthur (from his own web site postings) has encouraged preachers to borrow his material with or without reference if it will help minister to their congregation. I have read personal correspondence from Adrian Rogers to a young pastor who was charged with plagiarizing Adrian Rogers’ messages with a lament that that would be considered a problem. Pastor Rogers encouraged him to make sure that he worked them over for his own people though. Erwin Lutzer from an article in “Leadership” was quoted on this subject telling his students “to beg borrow or steal anything they could get” (not that he was encouraging his students to thievery). So some major national pastors have recognized the role that they play in the lives of a number of other pastors and want to be an encouragement.

Third, if plagiarism is an unpardonable sin, then we have some problems with the Scripture itself. Matthew and Luke borrowed from Mark and maybe another source with credit. Peter borrowed from Jude or vice versa without reference and there are other areas where authors borrowed from others without specific reference. Are they plagiarizing? Obviously not. One of the frequent arguments here is that this is God’s Word and there can be no plagiarizing. Exactly, and that is where the correlation with preaching being the current extension of the gift of prophecy (the delivery of God’s Word) is relevant.

All this is said in order that we would be careful of the judgements against Pastors who use other people’s materials without reference. Does this involve only where entire messages are being used? If you require one major reference to be noted then shouldn’t all references be noted? In doing that you would then destroy many sermons by changing them from God’s Word for God’s people to just another academic paper presentation.

Finally, I do agree that there may be some serious heart issues if all that is done by a Pastor is re-preaching someone else’s messages (even beyond the issue of plagiarism). But I would encourage caution when accusing a Pastor of this.

The ending to the event at our church was that our candidate used a Walt Kaiser article published 25 years ago in the Westminster Theological Journal for a Pneumatology seminary class research paper and then based his message off that paper reworking it with other sources, and a nationally prominent pastor had also used the same exegetical outline from Kaiser for his message (without giving a reference I might add) and so there was significant similarity. Did either of these gentlemen commit a sin, I judge No!

I do think that much more dialogue needs to take place on this subject in the future.

Sorry for the length. Grace and Peace, Dan


44. Terry
November 17, 2006
10:01 PM

I have sort of written my own response to the Wall Street Journal Article.

http://pruittcommunications.blogspot.com/2006/11/sermon-plagiarism-is-different-than.html


45. Brian at voiceofthesheep
November 18, 2006
8:32 AM

What is the role of a pastor? Is it to merely preach or to minister in other ways to his flock? That question must be answered first before any of this conversation begins.

DLE, The ONLY way a pastor truly ministers to his flock is by the preaching of the word. What other roles do you perceive a pastor has other than to preach the word? Writing emails & letters? Visiting the sick? Counseling couples?

Is the pastor to “merely” preach? While the definition of ‘merely’ means ‘only; no more than’, the use of that word, I think, denigrates the role of preaching.

Can a pastor write emails & letters, and visit the sick, and counsel couples? Sure…but his number ONE priority is the proclamation of the gospel. That is his calling, his vocation. NOTHING should take precedence over that.

I have heard ridiculous statements before from people about certain ministers being great pastors, but lousy preachers…or someone being a great preacher, but sorely lacking as a pastor. Those are nonsensical statements. The role of the pastor is to preach the word.

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. - 2 Tim. 4:1-2


46. Gospeldrivenlife@gmail.com
November 18, 2006
11:34 AM

Tim

A friend gave me this article and asked my thoughts. Thanks for posting on it. I do have a couple of thoughts after preaching about 2000 sermons.

The fundamental question is a definition of preaching — and that is God’s truth spoken through a particular person. Each preacher has a “voice” of their own and they are called to speak in that voice to their congregation. Preaching is not simply the truth — it is, to quote a great definition of preaching, “truth mediated through personality.”

It is not preaching to produce an electronically voiced exposition of a text and to play it while a man lip-syncs to the words. It is preaching when the truth has gripped my heart, affected my mind, and the truth is spoken faithfully in that context.

That brings me to my calling as a pastor. It is to feed the flock of God, to preach the Word. I am called to this flock, to these people - and the work of God’s Spirit through me and my gifts is what God is going to do as I preach. I have to have faith that God will work through me in this place and that people will hear the truth through my particular gifts, personality, etc.

That brings me to a definition of plagiarism. That is not complicated — passing off someone else’s material as my own! Of course all my preaching comes from study and reflection on many other books, sermons, etc — but it is digested and formed into a sermon that reflects my work. But if I stand and read in essence another man’s sermon and do not give credit for it, that is deceitful. I know men who have been disciplined for doing so as a pattern of life, and it usually reveals other problems where oversight should be exercised.

I have completed multiple academic writings in education. Plagiarism was taken very seriously and I know people who were expelled from Princeton University for plagiarizing on their Bachelor’s thesis. All their coursework was completed and their tuition paid — all that was left was this last work — but they passed off someone else’s work as their own without a footnote and they were expelled! I think that is a right standard.

Which means this — there may be occasions in a bi-vocational ministry where using someone else’s sermon is needed (Spurgeon’s sermons were read all over the world in his day) — or where emergencies require it. But if we do so, let us simply say, “This is a sermon I found so helpful and I wanted to read it to you today. I have reworked it some, but it is essentially from Mr X.”

Our people will lose our respect if we do not. Years ago I heard a fabulous sermon on a very difficult passage of the Bible. I was taken by its clarity and it began to form my entire view of the passaage.

I decided to preach through the same book and began to do research. As I did so I came across an article that sounded very familiar. As a matter of fact whole sections of that article had been lifted into that sermon and no credit was given at all. I lost respect for the man who stole the material.

If, on the other hand, he had begun his sermon with acknowledgement of his primary source, and had simply said that article had shaped his whole view — I would have not lost respect.

I think our people would rather on a busy week that we get up and read a passage and do a poorly constructed commentary on it than that we borrow another man’s work. I think if we are bivocational and must use other folks sermons, let us read them well and tailor them to our own circumstances and illustration, and simply admit to that, and our people will be served.


47. DLE
November 18, 2006
1:38 PM

Brian,

A couple comments:

If pastoring comes down to preaching the Word, what then is the problem of using another source to do so from time to time? A blazing message given to another Christian elsewhere may be the same word another church needs to hear. The question then becomes, Does the wheel need to be reinvented every time a pastor stands in the pulpit and preaches? If God is not giving new revelations, then the answer would have to be no.

I in no way want to denigrate the role of pastor, but I think many people have different understandings—all Biblical, too—of the balance a pastor needs in his ministry. Because of the horrible way in which so many churches do church in the West, more and more is expected of a pastor. If a pastor is visiting the sick, counseling others, evangelizing the lost, burying the dead, and on and on, can we legitimately expect him to always have some fresh fiery sermon ready to go every week? If he comes across a wonderful message preached elsewhere that applies to his own congregation, why can’t he relay that message every once in a while?

Even traveling evangelists reuse their own material. We seem to be making an issue of freshness and not one of the power of the message. Still, if a man is called to preach and do nothing else than preach, then I would certainly say he’s under a greater compulsion to be getting fresh direction from God for the messages he delivers. Still, if Spurgeon had to shoulder the responsibilities of the average pastor today, he’d probably never be known as “The Prince of Preachers.”

One last comment. We are all called to preach. Stephen, who “merely” waited on tables preached one of the best sermons in all the NT. Pastors are not “merely” relegated to preaching the Word, either. In my own church, at least a half dozen men have preached in the last six months. If everyone in a church preached, and everyone served the way they should, our pastors would be better for it. If anything, this whole issue points out that the people in the pews are not doing they’re job. We’re expecting our pastors to do it all, then we complain when they seek help elsewhere.


48. DLE
November 18, 2006
2:02 PM

Brian,

One last thing.

You said: “The ONLY way a pastor truly ministers to his flock is by the preaching of the word. What other roles do you perceive a pastor has other than to preach the word? Writing emails & letters? Visiting the sick? Counseling couples?”

A true story:

A pastor gets a call on the phone that the teenage son of one of the leaders in the church blew his head off with a shotgun. The rest of the family was not at home at the time.

The pastor gets in his car and goes over to the house. With the permission of the police, the pastor cleans the dead bits of a human life off the walls of the house so that the family, when they get home, doesn’t have to witness pieces of their child splattered all over the wall.

No words were preached at that time, yet profound ministry occurred because that pastor embodied in his actions the very words of Christ he believed.

So NO, pastoring is NOT just standing in a pulpit preaching the Word.


49. Brian at voiceofthesheep
November 18, 2006
4:26 PM

You can tell the most gruesome of stories, fact or fiction, but they won’t change the fact that the role of the pastor is to preach the word.


50. Jay
November 19, 2006
2:39 PM

To discuss plagiarism, is to understand the definitions used here. Nobody is saying you cant reference other material and take bits and pieces of other sermons and utilize them in your message. That is not what is meant by plagiarism.

True story- plagiarism is getting up on sunday morning and while getting dressed you watch a preacher on TV preaching a decent sermon. You listen intently and then get in the car and drive to church. Much to your amazement, your preacher then delivers the EXACT same sermon. The life events that happened to the TV preacher apparently happened to your preacher. He even went as far as stating that on his 42 birthday (although he was only 38) at the time. That happens every sunday for years.

That is what people who have be affected by plagiarizing sermons face every sunday. Preaching is the highest calling of all mankind and deserves to be treated as such. I find it hard to believe that the Lord of all creation will leave his messenger high and dry on a sunday morning. Try to understand the real delimma that some churchs are facing out there. It is and can be a real problem.


51. matthew
November 20, 2006
12:42 AM

Hey Tim,

Great post, and provocative. I haven’t commented in awhile, I haven’t done much blog reading at all, but I followed the link from the Gospel Driven Life Blog. And no, he didn’t put me up to this: I found Mark Lauterbach’s comments about “what is preaching?” to be downright inspiring.

I went to undergrad intending to go off to preacher school; gave that up or put it off, then went to law school. I still do churchey-type things, and many if not most of my best friends from undergraduate days are in seminary or Christian graduate school programs. So I have a bunch of incoherent thoughts on this topic:

(1) Intellectual dishonesty is different than copyright. Copyright, in both its legal and common meanings, is about the person who created the work’s right to sell or use it. The author or creator (or copyright owner) can license others to use it, e.g. Joel Osteen described above. Or, creative commons licensed stuff.

But, the author cannot absolve you of your responsibility to be intellectually honest. If I give you permission to copy all of my article, with or without attribution, then that means I can’t sue you and I don’t have much business complaining. But you can’t take my article and turn it in to a professor or editorial board as thought it were your own. The problem with plagiarism is between you (the cheater or infringer) and the audience.

(2) But I would caution the more academicially-minded pastors reading these comments: be careful how (and how much!) you reference. In a “legal academic” article (e.g. a law review piece), there is usually a footnote for every sentence. Some of the footnotes stretch on for pages: A (quoting B, but disagreeing with C (which in turn quoted x)). I think there is another danger, however, in the pulpit, of trying to show how academically respectable you are or that you use the “right” or “proper” commentaries. “As John Piper said, …” is one thing. But “Schoefennhoefer’s famous quote upon meeting Albert Schweitzer (Dietrich Bonnhofer’s protestations notwithstanding), was not actually in response to the subsequent challenge raised by Tillich…” etc. “Regular” people in church don’t really care about who said it, and “one commentator says…” is usually sufficient for them I think. It would be nice to have your reference handy if some well meaning person comes up and asks for it later. Of course, as between you and the original source, you might have an issue if they request full citation or something. This may not technically qualify as “copyright,” but I am trying to use the term more generally to include any controversy between the person who created the work and the person who incorporates some or all of the work.

(3) (Related) I think the Desiring God guidelines require far more attribution than I would require.

(4) I think it would help a lot to consider why we have live, local preachers in the local congregation. Honestly, most people on this board would think the sermonized answer to any Biblical or life question can be found in the writings of the fallible but familiar magisterium (in no particular order): Jonathan Edwards, Mark Dever, RC Sproul, DA Carson, John MacArthur, JI Packer (the “old” or “former” Packer), Charles Spurgeon, Martin Lloyd Jones… So why don’t we just play tapes of their sermons in church? Perhaps the senior elder could carefully select, for the given passage, which on-topic sermon was the best. I think Lauterbach’s quote (gospeldrivenlife@gm…) really hits the nail on the head: there is something about the pastor’s love for, knowledge of, and investment in the individual congregation that makes up for whatever deficiency he might have in the preacher beauty contest. Let’s face the facts: preachers get it wrong quite often. I have little confidence that my pastor is even 85% correct on the issues that must be addressed during a normal pastor’s tenure. If you compared the sermons of the men I listed above, you would find a lot of disagreements (what percentage of the material, do you think, is agreed upon by all of them?).

While the pastor should strive to faithfully prepare and deliver sermons accurately explaining the Word of God, don’t flatter yourself. :) Think of Balaam’s a$s.

A very important consideration not specifically mentioned above: what is the pastor’s motivation in taking action X? is he motivated by love for his sheep, and love for the glory of God expressed through the latter’s magnificent acts upon history and sinners? Well then, you’re probably o.k. Check with the author of the work, if possible, to see how they would have you reference them. When in doubt, check with your fellow elders / leaders or other trusted people. Maybe approach some other people in the congregation you trust, people who aren’t former pastors or lifelong sunday school teachers, and discuss a section of your sermon with them. Show them the source, and ask whether they think what you did was questionable.

So there you go, long and rambling, as promised.


52. The Highland Host
November 20, 2006
6:05 AM

This is not a new problem. In the 18th Centry it was an accepted practice in Anglicanism, with men who had never seen the inside of a pulpit preaching vicariously through men who bought their sermons and read them. Augustus Toplady of ‘Rock of Ages’ fame relates the following story” “I was buying some books in the spring of 1762, a month or so before I was ordained, from a very respectable London bookseller. After the business was over, he took me to the furthest end of his long shop, and said in a low voice, ‘Sir, you will soon be ordained, and I suppose you have not laid in a very great stock of sermons. I can supply you with as many sets as you please, all original, very excellent nes, and they will come for a trifle.’ My answer was: ‘I certainly shall never be a customer to you in that way; for I am of the opinion that the man who cannot, or will not make his own sermons is quite unit to wear the gown.” The ‘gown’ is of course the preaching-gown. And I agree fully with Mr. Toplady! Nowadays, of course, that bookseller has a website.


53. Ron Lusk
November 20, 2006
10:32 AM

One problem with plagiarism is that (as Lauterbach recently pointed out, citing Phillips Brooks) “Preaching is the Gospel mediated through personality.” Insofar as that is accurate, the message will reflect the personality of the preacher, in words and style and rhythm.

All of these men “connect” because they are sincerely living out and preaching out their experience of Christ and their unique gifting. It would be phony for Piper to start quoting The Village Voice—or for Driscoll to put on a British accent.

Yesterday, four of us (three elders and me, an elder-in-training) shared the pulpit to address some issues in our church family. If we had swapped the texts we preached, the results would have been ludicrous rather than effective. (I might someday suggest it for one of our annual skit nights.) In the same way, the pastors and teachers I’ve heard who have borrowed others’ sermons or lessons do not ring true. (Which even in the writing convicts me…how often have I not rung true in my teaching for this or other reasons?)

I think it is possible to adopt and assimilate others’ work so much by meditation and restatement that the material becomes “yours”, because it has become a part of you and your life. To wear someone’s work for a morning is not the same; it is not yours, does not belong, does not match, has not changed you: you change it, like an outer garment. (Ps 102:26, if you want the citation.)

Finally, on beginning preachers’ imitating others (at least for practice): I can see a sense that this could be a way to learn the act of sermon delivery without interference from (and anxiety about) the act of sermon preparation. It may not be far (for some) from the work of an actor, but it could also be a way to feel the small-scale (sentence-level) and large-scale (paragraph- and section-level) rhythms and patterns of speech and work them into one’s bones. The usual fine line, I suppose: on the one hand, I can fall into despising good delivery, because “the Word has power”, and so I add the offense of my style to the offense of the Gospel, failing in my task. On the other hand, I exalt good delivery and make it my idol, when God might prefer to work through weak vessels. But that’s another issue.


54. DLE
November 20, 2006
12:11 PM

Brian,

You’re twisting what I said (and what you said, too.) Nowhere did I write that a pastor’s role did NOT include preaching the word. It absolutely does. It’s just that preaching the word is NOT the only way he ministers. You contend that it is. I quoted you saying as much. I provided evidence refuting your statement.

The role of the pastor is to LIVE the word he preaches as much as it is to preach it. An agnostic can stand up in a pulpit and read straight from the Scriptures. He can do so with great fire and passion (or acting, depending on how you view it.) But he doesn’t live it. He doesn’t practice the Scriptures in order to make a difference in the lives of the people he oversees.

I know plenty of Christian men who can stand up and give an oratory on the Bible. Give them a label, but don’t call them a pastor—unless they interact with their flock in a way that shows Christ is alive in him, washing their feet, comforting them in loss, burying them when they die, listening to them when they are afraid, or in the case I mentioned, cleaning up a suicide scene so the parents don’t have to witness it.

Just this last week, my pastor and his wife called up out of the blue and said they’d bring over a couple pizzas and hang out with us. We told stories about how we met our spouses and laughed. I’d been a little down that day, but by the time they left, I was refreshed. Did they stand up preach at any time? No. But they ministered to us nonetheless because they lived out the relational and upbuilding aspect of the Gospel they believe.

Again, preaching isn’t the only way a pastor ministers to others.


55. Seth McBee
November 20, 2006
2:56 PM

All I can say is that I contend that all pastors should strive to be like Ezra.

For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the LORD and to practice it, and to teach His statutes and ordinances in Israel.

Ezra 7:10

God save us, if our pastors do not strive to be Ezras.


56. Dan
November 20, 2006
3:05 PM

Reading some of the comments concerning the function of the pastor has demonstrated a divide in what is perceived as the scriptural emphasis of the duty of the pastor. Paul gives clear indications of the qualifications for the office of the pastor (they involve a depth of understanding of Scripture, a life that is consistent with that knowledge and the ability to teach it). This patterns itself after Aristotle’s concept of a teacher (logos, ethos and pathos). Logos is knowing what one is teaching, ethos is the fact that what one teaches has actually impacted the teacher’s life and finally pathos is the concept that there is a deep desire to see people changed by the teaching. In all the conversations above, I don’t think anyone would disagree with this statement. The difference, as I perceive it is the way in which this is carried out. Is it a pulpit ministry only or is there other equally important tasks for the pastor.

Understanding how the term pastor would have been understood by the New Testament audience helps in this matter. Shepherd (the translation of the word pastor) has a long history of use in the Old Testament and the Ancient near East. In that time, the main personification of the word “shepherd” was the King. All ancient Near Eastern kings referred to themselves as the “shepherd of his people”. The title shepherd for Israel was reserved for Yahweh and was not used by their kings for Yahweh was the true King. There are ancient Near Eastern writings that parallel the 23 Psalm. These writings celebrate the conquest of a king for his people ensuring them safety and provision.

Because of this ancient utilization of the term shepherd, it was understood that the main priorities of the king (shepherd) was to provide and protect. This understanding of the etymology of the word shepherd has helped me define the roles of the pastor as they are expressed to us in the New Testament. Peter refers to the pastors as the undershepherds to the Chief Shepherd (Christ), therefore pastors are to provide and protect their congregation. This provision and protection should always be scripturally grounded. However, there are many situations where providing and protecting cannot be accomplished from the pulpit alone. Many times the pastor needs to go from house to house (I understand that the early church met in houses, however, there is more to this house to house than just formal church meetings as we think in the 21st centruy) to where his people are so that he can see their needs and bring to bear upon their life the effects of the gospel. This takes place in many ways (visiting, counseling or simply fellowshipping). This does not minimize the role of Scripture in his ministry, rather it enhances it, for in every interaction that the pastor has the focus of that interaction is to minister the Word to his people.

What this means for the congregation is that they need to allow the pastor sufficient time to regulary study God’s Word. They need to expect strong exposition from the pulpit. They should expect deep theological teaching in his other avenues of teaching, and they should expect to hear personal and private challenges about how God’s Word is to be worked out in their own lives. They should also expect to see the gospel lived out in the pastor’s life. The congregation also needs to submit to the pastors God given authority over the spiritual matters of the church as he guides and protects as the “under-king”. They should not expect him to clean the bathrooms or paint the foyer of the church building.

There are many ways that the pastor can focus his ministry around the Word and prayer. It is not only a pulpit thing, it is a pulpit and life thing. Let’s encourage them to develop a ministry where we imitate them as they imitate Christ in bringing to bear the gospel on every aspect of our lives.

Finally, I love the scene in the movie “The Patriot” where the pastor of the local congregation has removed his wig, donned his hat and grabbed his musket in order to join the fight for freedom from England and is quoted (not perfectly) as saying “sometimes the pastor has leave the pulpit and fight the wolves”

Grace and Peace Dan


57. Brian at voiceofthesheep
November 20, 2006
6:40 PM

The role of the pastor is to LIVE the word he preaches as much as it is to preach it. An agnostic can stand up in a pulpit and read straight from the Scriptures. He can do so with great fire and passion (or acting, depending on how you view it.) But he doesn’t live it. He doesn’t practice the Scriptures in order to make a difference in the lives of the people he oversees.

DLE,

I appreciate what you are saying, but I just don’t see where the pastor is any more or less obligated to do the other things you mentioned than you or I, or any other member of the congregation.

It is not only the role of the pastor to live what he preaches…it is also the role of every Christian to live what he/she preaches.

As to your comments about an agnostic reading from the Scriptures, may I leave you with a thought derived from the 2nd Helvetic Confession:

If the minister be an atheist, an infidel, or immoral…his ministry has EXACTLY THE SAME effect as if he had been a believer and godly. Because, it is the ministry of the Word through his mouth…and NOT the minister himself who is a means of grace.

I will still stand by my assertion that the role of the pastor is to preach the word…and I would add to that also the administering of the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper. Those are the things (preaching and the ordinances) on which the pastor is to be focused and preoccupied.


58. Steve
November 21, 2006
8:24 PM

I must say that I agree, mostly, with the idea that a preacher must study, and come up with his own message. However, in the realm of plagiarism, to claim the ideas as ones own…well, that is simply wrong. Yet…I have no problem with a preacher delivering a message that has touched his heart…even if it is almost word for word, the efforts of another preacher. As scripture would tell us, “it is not how the word is preached…but THAT the word is preached.” A paraphrase to be sure…but accurate to the word.
Do I expect a preacher to study, to work at learning, and delivering messages? Of course.
But am I stuck on judging the man for borrowing or using the efforts of another man…of course not. Virtually all knowledge is derived from the efforts of another person, and modified by the understanding of the individual who studies it. As Solomon said…”there is nothing new under the Sun.”
Knowledge derived from another’s efforts is no different than the fact that the knowledge they had came from others before them. With the addition of their own concepts, ideas, and structure…all directed at the hearing of individuals, and specific to their needs, time, and era.

I can see the need for a concern, if the preacher is consistant in using anothers work. But, of more concern to me would be the use of the term “pastor”, than the preaching of the man. Pastor, meaning that he is the leader of the congregation…when scripturally…the elders are the leaders. The person preaching can be an elder…but, pastor is a misnomer that is indiciticative of a minister leading a congregation….and not a plurality of elders. Which if the “pastor” is leading…is unscriptural. But many congregations that call themselves by Christ’s name work under that very idea…that the minister is more than simply a minister…a deliverer of God’s word to that body of Christ, under the leadership of a group of elders. When he becomes more than that, and not an elder…then there is more wrong than plagiarism….