Zealous Immaturity
My work on The Discipline of Discernment has taken me to many places in the Bible and to many of the books on my bookshelves. I have been surprised and delighted to see how God has been preparing me to write this book, for many of the books I have read in the past few years tie directly into what I feel the Bible says about discernment. I’ve found help in books by many authors and on a variety of topics.
Some of the areas I have researched in connection to my book have been little more than rabbit trails. As I’ve done the work I’ve found that they are dead ends and do not tie into discernment at all. Others have proven to be far more valuable. One area I was researching on the weekend was an area in which I read quite extensively a couple of years ago: knowing and doing God’s will. As I looked into this area, I browsed through several books I had read in years past. And this led me to a book by Jim Elliff.
In his small but helpful book Led By The Spirit, Jim Elliff describes Christians he terms “illuminists” - people who, when confronted by difficult decisions in life, seek guidance from God by getting a series of impressions which they believes come as God directly impacts the spirit. This term is not to be confused with illumination, which is the Spirit’s work of illuminating the words of Scripture to believers. Elliff used to practice this kind of decision-making so knows it well. I also know it well and have often encountered Christians who place a great deal of emphasis on listening for and heeding these impressions. With some of these people it is clear that they are not hearing God-given impressions for God would not give the kind of guidance they attribute to Him. With other people, and here I think primarily of some of the Charismatic Christians I have met recently, it is not so easy to discount the impressions. They truly do appear to be listening to God and to be responding to Him in a way that is consistent with Scripture. In fact, meeting such people has really made me wrestle with my position on this issue.
Regardless of your take on this issue, I think you will find this quote from Elliff both helpful and meaningful:
God may use the sincere individual who gets his guidance the illuminist’s way. He may bless him. He may honor his faith more than his method. I am quite sure that God always condescends to our imperfections. And if there is immaturity, we must realize that God will often use in our zealous immaturity what he disallows in our maturity.The Great Awakening preacher, George Whitefield (1714-1770), who had such tendencies in his earlier days, later commented, “I am a man of like passions with others, and consequently may have sometimes mistaken nature for grace, imagination for revelation.” He put away his illuministic patterns as he grew in Christ. Yet, it is important to note that he was used in those earlier days just as dramatically as in later life.
I do not mean to say that those who listen to impressions are necessarily immature. Rather I’d point you to a wider application, and one that I have found very reassuring and encouraging. Elliff is absolutely correct when he says that God condescends to our imperfections. I believe this is especially the case when our imperfections are due to immaturity in the faith. God may see fit to use zealous immaturity. But, as time passes, He expects that we grow in our knowledge and our faith. And when this happens His expectations of us no doubt increase.
But I thank God that He does condescend to our imperfections and to my imperfections. Knowing myself as I do, I know that I offer Him more imperfection than perfection. I know that I am often zealous in my imperfection and am grateful that He chooses to honor this zeal, even when I am just plain wrong.
Comments (34) »
1. Kyle
January 4, 2007
10:39 AM
There has been so much written on the topic of God’s will, it almost laughable. By a long shot, the best and most biblical handling of the subject I have encountered is a fantastic book by an Evangelical Free minister named Garry Friesen called “Decision Making and the Will of God.” The book originally was released in 1970, but an expanded and updated 25th anniversary edition was released in 2005. It’s a thorough, thoughtful, and biblical response to what Elliff would call “illuminism.”
Don’t know if you’re looking to read anything else on the topic, but I would definitely recommend it to anyone who is interested in doing so.
Kyle
2. bibliomaniac
January 4, 2007
11:06 AM
God condescends to our imperfections…that’s an excellent way to describe why God still blesses us even though our methodology may be off.
Yet as you point out, we must still grow in our knowledge and faith such that we do not mistaken illumination for revelation.
I hope you’re creating at least a whole book chapter on this matter alone!
3. Josh
January 4, 2007
11:38 AM
This is much needed, especially in the SBC. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “God told me” or something like that. Fight the good fight Tim and keep the Cokes stocked and those fingers limber.
Josh “…the word of God is not bound.” —2 Timothy 2:9
4. Larry F
January 4, 2007
12:49 PM
An excellent post! I loved the quote from Elliff regarding God condscending to our imperfections and honoring our faith in our immaturity. There’s often a tendency to legitimize some practice because ‘the Lord used it in my life’ or ‘that’s how I got saved’, etc. I think its important to remember the truth of this post that just because God honored a certain thing and used it for good in my own life does not necessarily make it good practice or good theology!
5. Jabbok
January 4, 2007
12:50 PM
I’m a little confused so my comments may not be accurate but here they go:
You said, “…it is not so easy to discount the impressions.” concerning some Charismatic Christians that you have come to know.
Elliff seems to attribute the illuminist’s way to immaturity.
Whitefield said he, “put away his illuministic patterns as he grew in Christ.”
So, would you conclude that the “impressions” that Charismatics often receive are allowed by God because Charismatics are immature?
Is it safe and reasonable for us to abandon the principles of Sola Scriptura for the sake of immaturity?
Just because Whitefield was used in his early days doesn’t support the idea that God used or condoned his illuminist tendencies. The fact that he abandoned them is greater evidence that believed them to be in error. Why else would he abandon them?
6. Jon
January 4, 2007
1:05 PM
It would be interestign to see the context of Whitefields statement: “”I am a man of like passions with others, and consequently may have sometimes mistaken nature for grace, imagination for revelation.”
It seems like he’s just saying something like, ‘I’m a human being and I have imperfections just like everyone; I get things wrong,’ rather than taking that to mean he’s refuting non-normative revelation.
Thoughts?
7. Bill
January 4, 2007
1:06 PM
I’ll be interested in the book once it comes out. The Whitefield quote just became my sig line at a forum I post at.
8. John K
January 4, 2007
1:22 PM
Quote: “I… may have sometimes mistaken nature for grace, imagination for revelation.”
How many of us can identify with this? I know I can! In my opinion and experience, for what it’s worth, God guides more often than not by providentially aligning circumstances. However, as imperfect human beings, it is often only retroactively that we can tell what was imagination and what was true revelation.
Take Care
9. Nikki
January 4, 2007
3:06 PM
Just out of curiosity, when is this book going to hit the shelves? Do you have a projected timeline?
10. Brian at voiceofthesheep
January 4, 2007
3:37 PM
I pray I will always have zeal for God, but ALWAYS in accordance with knowledge.
Tim said, “I know that I am often zealous in my imperfection and am grateful that He chooses to honor this zeal, even when I am just plain wrong.”.
I wonder if it’s possible that God honors zeal that is NOT in accordance with knowledge? In other words, does He consider the heart and motives and intentions apart from the truth in immature believers? Or, are we talking more about methodology rather than content?
11. Trent
January 4, 2007
5:40 PM
To add to Brian’s comment vis-a-vis the possibility of God honoring zeal that is not in accordance with knowledge, see Romans 10:1-2.
12. Brian at voiceofthesheep
January 4, 2007
5:51 PM
Romans 10:2 was the foundation for my comments. Here are a couple of more relating to zealous immaturity:
for the Law - Acts 20:21 for God - Acts 22:3 for tradition - Gal. 1:14
13. Tim
January 4, 2007
5:51 PM
Jabbok,
I don’t think Tim Challies meant it quite the way you took it—but your questions are certainly a good way to probe just what he did mean. I’ll give you my thoughts on how to answer them:
So, would you conclude that the “impressions” that Charismatics often receive are allowed by God because Charismatics are immature? I don’t think it’s a matter of God “allowing” those impressions, except in the extremely broad sense that everything that happens is something God allows to happen. God doesn’t step in and prevent us from ever making mistakes. (Though he is working all things so that we will become more like Christ.) In this case, I think you meant to ask whether Challies would conclude that the impressions are given by God because of Charistmatics’ immaturity.
I don’t think that’s quite what he’s saying. He introduced the quote with the qualification, “Regardless of your take on this issue”. So I think he was saying that, whether or not God does actively communicate with anyone through these impressions, we should take comfort in the fact that God can and does work powerfully through his people even when we have some messed up ideas about how to serve him. God works through us even in the midst of our dim understanding of him. (Though it seems there have to be limits on that, so we shouldn’t be overly comforted. The mistakes we make can have significant negative consequences.)
Is it safe and reasonable for us to abandon the principles of Sola Scriptura for the sake of immaturity? He didn’t suggest basing any conclusions about this topic on the Elliff quote.
Though I disagree with your apparent assumption that anyone who interprets these impressions as the leading of the Spirit is rejecting Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura means that the Bible is the only authoritative instruction from God. Unless someone puts equal or greater weight on their impressions than on scripture, I don’t see how they would be violating Sola Scriptura.
14. Steve
January 4, 2007
6:22 PM
Wouldn’t “God condescending to our imperfections” be contradictory to reformed theology? After all, you can’t have it both ways.
Just curious, because I see so many things that cross the line as I watch the discourse on various subjects.
15. Jabbok
January 4, 2007
7:46 PM
Tim,
Thanks for making my points a little clearer, you expressed them pretty well. I wasn’t trying to place Mr. Challies between a rock and a hard place but I was interested in what type of “impressions” he might not discount simply because they came from Charismatic Christians.
I may have told this story before but if you will indulge me I’ll tell it again.
I worked as a summer missionary when I was attending a Baptist College. I was a young Christian and this was a way to earn some college credits. The missionary I worked with was delighted to have me with him for the summer but he expressed that he had been greatly discouraged on the field and didn’t know what he was going to do. As my summer term came to an end he asked if I would move to the field with him and work with him. He told me I could transfer to a local Christian college and continue my studies, live with him and assist him on the mission field. He then told me that he had been praying about the matter and had received some very strong impressions from the Lord that this was His leading. He added to this by saying, “I’ve never been wrong about these impressions before.” I was pretty taken back by this. I was a young Christian, I was flattered that he thought so highly of me and was requesting my assistance and to top it off he had received “impressions” from the Lord and he had never been wrong about them before. I returned home and told my wife that we were packing up and moving. We had garage sales and sold our belongings to the point that we could put the remainder of what we owned in the smallest U-Haul that could be rented. We then went to our home town to tell our parents that we were moving to this mission field. While at my wifes parents I called the missionary to tell him we were on the way and he informed me that he had resigned from the field the day after I left and the property had already been sold to another work. He was moving back to his home town to take care of a Christian book store that he owned.
I’ve not been a big fan of “impressions” since that time and Charismatic or not I don’t think I would put any weight of authority behind any type of impression. If it’s not written in the Book then it isn’t a Word from the Lord.
Thanks for indulging me.
16. rch
January 4, 2007
10:20 PM
I wonder if God (the Spirit) ever gives us impressions as we interact with Him via His Word?
17. Jabbok
January 4, 2007
11:18 PM
rch,
Jesus prayed for us in John 17 and said, “Sanctify them through your truth, your word is truth.”
I believe God helps us to understand the Truth as it is written in His Word and this Truth is our means of making wise and Godly decisions.
Truth is greater and of more value than an impression and it is within the realm of our liberty in Christ to make decisions based upon this truth.
18. Jerry M
January 4, 2007
11:18 PM
One of Whitefield’s ‘impressions’ was after his son was born - he predicted that he would be a great preacher. Sadly - the child died rather young and the impression was in error. That may have been the context of the quote - ‘I mistook fancy for faith’
19. James M
January 4, 2007
11:43 PM
Religious Broadcaster Pat Robertson Predicts Horrific Terrorist Attack on U.S. in 2007 the Associated Press reported on January 2nd, this year. This prediction will result in “mass killing”.
These so-called impressionist or illuminists who give such prophetic utterances have to know, if they are biblical, that these things must be tested (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21). So how do you test such a Robertson prediction? Answer: if it happens it may be right. Well listen to his last prediction:
“In May, Robertson said God told him that storms and possibly a tsunami were to crash into America’s coastline in 2006. Even though the U.S. was not hit with a tsunami, Robertson on Tuesday cited last spring’s heavy rains and flooding in New England as partly fulfilling the prediction” (AP).
My Bible tells me that “false prophets” are to be executed (Deuteronomy 18). “… Fulfillment was, in fact, the test of a prophet’s genuineness (Deut. 18:20–22). Whether prophets’ words were fulfilled within their lifetime or centuries later, they were filfilled to the letter (1 Kin. 13:3; 2 Kin. 23:15–16). Illuminists who claim that “God told me this and God told me that” not only break the 7th Commandment, but they break the 1st. They set themselves up as God. God has established His infallible Word to test such things. Therefore where they deny such tests and claim certain impressions as authoritative they make themselves to be infallible. What a disgrace.
Stop embarrassing me, yourself and your Christian friends. Stop saying, “God told me.” Repent of your vain and profane use of Jehovah’s name and setting yourself up as infallible. John MacArthur has a great DVD out on God’s Will. Get it. Read Eliff’s book. Above all read The Book. Walk in the Spirit. Deal with Sin. Follow this advice from Augustine: “Ama Deum et fac quod vis” .
20. Thabiti
January 4, 2007
11:57 PM
Tim, An excellent, excellent post. Quite useful pastorally. Would you mind if I reproduced this in the church newsletter some time? Thabiti
21. Tim Challies
January 5, 2007
8:31 AM
“Would you mind if I reproduced this in the church newsletter some time?”
Feel free.
22. Jim Crigler
January 5, 2007
8:53 AM
For a humorous (if slightly sarcastic) take on a similar theme, see Doug Jones’ The Mantra of Jabez.
23. john umland
January 5, 2007
9:04 AM
Jabbok i’m sorry you had the 1 Kings 13 experience. hopefully, you have learned to trust the Holy Spirit’s guidance in you than through someone else, which applies to all areas of discernment. discriminating between illumination and gastric distress is a process. it’s like learning to resist eisigesis and favor exegesis. maturity in discernment includes hearing God better. sometimes the Bible alone offers no help, such as going on a mission. God will speak to us through wise counsel, but also, as a means to train us, through His still small voice. God is good jpu
24. centuri0n (F. Turk)
January 5, 2007
12:18 PM
Along these same lines, I have a petition which has about 300 signatures as I type this o send to Pat Roberston to stop representing his opinions as “God told me” prophecies.
You Challies readers might be interested. There are a lot of you.
http://www.petitiononline.com/fof0001/petition.html
25. rch
January 5, 2007
3:56 PM
Jabbok Is it possible that as we are interacting with God via Scripture (Truth) that God reveals aspects of Himself or shows us something about ourselves via the Holy Spirit? Another way of saying the above, is does He impress things upon our minds as we are prayerfully reading Scripture? rch
26. Jabbok
January 5, 2007
5:44 PM
rch,
Impressions are difficult because we have no way to judge whether these impressions are from the Lord or from our own imaginations.
When I read that our God is a consuming fire I have the impression of a massive ball of fire that eats everything in it’s path. I probably got that image from a Star Trek movie or perhaps it was the Fifth Element where the planet of fire grew each time they shot a missile into it. I’m pretty certain this isn’t something sent to my mind by the Holy Spirit.
I know that this example is on the extreme and we really want to be more “spiritual” than that but it doesn’t matter how you twist it or slant it, impressions cannot be relied on to be of the Lord.
If we want to suppose that there is a certain level of Christian Maturity that brings us into a higher spiritual realm where impressions can lead us and direct our decisions then we basically have a form of gnosticism. That is, those who are spiritual enough or mature enough or “in the know” can receive impressions and be directed from the Lord by means other than the Scripture.
I’ve always enjoyed the movie “Joan of Arc” because it brings this point home. Joan based her decisions upon what she believed were direct signs and impressions from the Lord. In the end, the devil comes to mock her and shows her that what she believed were signs could have been brought about by any number of means.
I do believe that God opens our hearts to His Truth. For example, the Bible says that we are sinners. This is a Truth. I read that statement and heard that statement many times in my life and it fell on deaf ears. Then, one day, God opened my heart to receive His Word and the truth about being a sinner came home. It wasn’t an impression or a sign or a new revelation or a new Word from the Lord. The Truth of Scripture came to bear and I recognized it as the Truth. I am a sinner.
I once heard an old reformed preacher say the same thing about the Doctrines of Grace. He said that the Doctrines of Grace cannot be taught but their truth must be driven home to the heart by the Holy Spirit. I think he was right.
27. Alex Moore
January 5, 2007
7:04 PM
I think that, when it comes to the will of God, many Americans are completely missing the point.
“Where does God want me to go to college?”
“Who does God want me to date?” “Does God want me to go on a mission trip?” “Which job does God want me to apply to?”
We Americans, living in the most affluent nation in the documented history of existence, have some how come under the impression that God is no more than our personal helper.
This notion has caused many of us to get the wrong idea about the identity of God.
Recently I experienced the misfortune of being laid off, and I was quickly comforted by friends saying, “Alex, God will provide a way. God wants you to have a job and he wants you to have a steady source of income. God may be closing a door, but he is surely opening another one.”
This is what we, as Americans tell ourselves when something bad happens. “God, why did you let my girlfriend break up for me? Oh… I bet that it is because you’ve got something even better waiting for me around the corner, because that’s what you’re all about, God: helping me move up that ladder of prosperity one rung at a time.”
Sure, we have verses in the bible where God promises to take care of our needs, but what needs are we talking about here? Financial needs? Prosperity needs? These are needs that 95 percent of the world will never be fortunate enough to experience.
The truth of the matter is, God does not need us Americans to experience any measure of success, be it physical, sexual, financial, or otherwise, in order to remain Deity.
The notion that, because God is good, he will help me get a job insinuates that if I don’t get a job, God wasn’t good to me… this notion is built on the arrogant idea that God must be good to me, superficially speaking.
Job would have something to say to the contrary.
And so, maybe the prayer of the American should not be so much asking God to show us His will, as if God were our personal helper, but rather practicing a prayer life of submission, opening ourselves up to the reality that because God IS NOT our personal helper, maybe we ought to fill that role in our community.
The Me-Culture that has formed in America would rather function on the concept that God helps all of us, because that way we don’t have to help each other.
Imagine the transformation that would happen on a national level if we as Christians quit asking God to help ourselves, and instead started helping each other.
Maybe then we will finally discover the Will of God.
28. rch
January 5, 2007
7:27 PM
Jabbok, I believe we’ll end up agreeing to disagree. However, a final thought regarding: “Impressions are difficult because we have no way to judge whether these impressions are from the Lord or from our own imaginations.” I believe this is the roll of discernment (which I would also categorize in the realm of impressions, because any discernement that is true is brought to my mind via the Holy Spirit and is subject to the Truth of God’s word, similar to conviction of sin.) Maybe I have a broad understanding of the term ‘impression’. Webster defines it as an effect produced on the mind. That to me seems like how the Holy Spirit makes the word of God alive to us (‘living and active’) or how he convicts me of sin or reveals an aspect of God to me that I may not have known (of course all subject to Scripture, which would indicate that it is the Holy Spirit who only would impress truth upon my mind). I know there have been numerous misuses of the idea of impressions, but I don’t think it’s necessary to throw out the baby with the bathwater. rch
29. Jabbok
January 5, 2007
10:25 PM
rch,
Based on your previous comments I was able to discern that you were in favor of extra-biblical enlightenment and I was under the impression that you would probably agree to disagree. I doubt that my discernment or my impression should be attributed to the Holy Spirit but you can if you want to. That’s all for me on this topic until Mr. Challies introduces it again. :)
30. SquarePeg
January 6, 2007
1:07 AM
Tim,
I only stop here occassionally, but I really appreciate this thread, and look forward to reading your book. I am a Baptist pastor, and the question of discernment is an ongoing concern for me, not just with regard to making decisions and prayer, but also with regard to preaching.
Over the years, I have become a skillful preacher, and in my present church, that skill is beginning to bear fruit in terms of worship attendance, personal decisions being made, and even in the policies and practices of the church. I would like to believe that this is all God’s doing, and that I am but the useful vessel He is now using to accomplish these things for His glory. But, is that really true? Or am I simply growing skillful at persuasion, a la Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People”? Is it inspired preaching, or emotional manipulation?
I think most would agree that the answer to that question depends much upon my true motivations, and my fidelity to God’s written word. I strive for faithfulness on both counts, but I am keenly aware that I “… have sometimes mistaken nature for grace, imagination for revelation,” as Whitefield so aptly put it. As all the responses in this thread demonstrate, discernment a complex issue.
Because the issue is complex, my approach to it is similarly complex. First, I make it a habit to be suspiscious of EVERY inner prompting, whatever it is. Second, I seek to be sure that the idea, inspiration, revelation, agenda, or whatever, is consistent with Scripture. Third (and this is critical) I make myself accountable to other believers. That is, whenever I advance what I believe to be a leading from God, I humbly submit it to other believers as MY BELIEF, and ask them to consider it, pray about it, and correct me if I am in error. I do not say “God told me,” even if I believe He did. Finally, even when I am convinced that God has indeed spoken, and act on that belief, I try to remain open to God’s editing, fine tuning, or outright overruling, because, even after all this, I could still be wrong (really!). This approach does not address the issue the charismatic gift of Prophecy, but it has worked well for me, whose gifts are more in the line of teaching and exhortation.
But, to be clear, I agree with rch: God’s Spirit does sometimes “illumine” our thinking through those inner impressions. I do not believe that kind of leading is restricted to the “immature.” It does take maturity, however, to sort out Divine guidance from human ambition, and part of that maturity, as Alex infers, is to understand that God guides us for the sake of His agenda, not ours. We all might get more of those genuine inner promptings if we would pray (and preach!) less selfishly.
31. Steve H
January 6, 2007
7:59 AM
I have to second Kyle’s comment on Friesen’s book. Friesen skillfully deals with impressions, signs, the “putting out of the fleece” a la Gideon, and hitting the bullseye, that is finding God’s perfect will for every situation, discounting such measures in favor of wisdom and direction as found in God’s written revelation. He does so in a very readable way.
For Friesen, Christians have freedom to act within the boundaries of God’s known revelation. Friesen pictures it as a circle and within that circle we can make decisions. He realizes that the Bible does not provide an answer to every possible decision and offers that God gives us the freedom and ability to choose within the circle of His revealed moral will.
That is not to say that God cannot override one’s decision. But what Friesen is saying is that we cannot determine God’s sovereign will, which a lot of Christians try to do, until He works it out. There- fore, we must choose a wise course of action (it’s possible for more than one good choice to exist), consulting the resources that God gives us such as Scripture, individuals with knowledge, etc. and make a decision consistent with His revealed will.
For one who came from Penetecostal upbringing (and yes I have reformed), Friesen’s approach was very liberating. Decision making paralyzes a lot of Christians. But it does not have to.
32. Barry
January 6, 2007
8:43 AM
Hi, Tim. Interestingly, Pyromaniacs’ Dan Phillips had a great post on this same topic, same day, here
33. Matt Barber
January 6, 2007
10:18 AM
Sometimes I’m not sure that God condescends to our imperfections. Sometimes I believe it wholeheartedly. Maybe what I mean is, God may be less willing to condescend to the imperfections of the ‘mature’ Christian — i.e., the mature Christian ought to know better, therefore God won’t bail him out when he wrongly interprets some impression or imagination of supposed truth.
Milton’s depiction of God’s actions in history, in Paradise Lost and elsewhere, always struck me as saying that God uses our imperfections, sometimes for us and sometimes against us. In Milton’s writings, God doesn’t always ‘condescend to’ our imperfections — in the sense that He condescends to help us muddle through them — but sometimes rather punishes us through our imperfections, to magnify His own glory, and rightly so. It might be like ‘tough love’. Is punishment a kind of condescension to our imperfections, to help us? Or is punishment the flipside to His condescending to our imperfections, something more like distancing Himself from the ugliness of our sin?
One could argue that any magnification of His glory is always a benefit to us, who are saved, but what about the lost? Can we say that they learn more about God when He helps them or punishes them through their imperfections? Certainly they learn more about His character, or His justice, but it doesn’t seem to make them any more likely to believe.
34. rch
January 6, 2007
11:05 AM
Jabbok, My final toughts: I don’t think anything I commented on would indicate that I am ‘in favor of extra Biblical enlightenment’ - I think I’m just in favor of a God who is communicative and interacts with His people via the Holy Spirit who indwells believers (of course, as I have alluded to all along, we are able to discern that it is the Holy Spirit because it is congruent with Scripture - and yes I would say that even this ability to discern ultimately is God-given or God-impressed). rch