For some time now I have been pondering the value of writing about the reasons that wife and I have chosen to have our children educated through the public school system. Public schools are not the only option available to us. We are capable of homeschooling our children—we are both well-educated and each have a university degree. There are homeschooling groups in our town that we could tap into and endless numbers of homeschooling resources available to us. While it would definitely be a huge strain on our finances, (to the point that either my wife or I might have to be willing to take on a part-time job), we could possibly even come up with $10,000 a year to enroll our children in a local Christian school. Practically, though, the options for my family come down to public schools or homeschool. We have chosen to place our children in public schools. And now I am going to tell you why.
Before I continue, I would like to affirm that I believe this is an area in which Christians have freedom from God to do what we feel is appropriate for our individual families. This is an area of weaker and stronger Christians. I do not believe that any of the options—homeschooling, Christian schooling or public schooling—is inherently wrong, but feel that each family must follow their convictions on this matter. I do not judge or condemn those who choose other options. The real sin would be to violate one’s conscience or to look negatively upon those who choose other options. As my pastor says in this article, depending on your view on this subject you may fall into the weak category or the strong category. In either case, you will be “tempted by the devil, the world and your flesh to either despise or condemn those who hold a different view from yours…Depending on whether you are weak or strong, you are being tempted to despise other members of this church or condemn other members of this church. If you deny that, you deny God’s Word. Paul does not say, some of you are in this weak/strong struggle. No, he says all of us fall into one or the other classification.” The strong are tempted to despise and the weak are tempted to condemn. Let’s be sure that we do not fall into either sin.
Of course not everyone believes, as I do, that we have freedom in this area. To these people I urge charity. I grew up in a church where Christian schooling was expected and demanded. I have read any number of articles by those who choose to homeschool who believe that homeschooling is the only biblical option for educating children. While these people may make some valid arguments, I am not convicted by Scripture or by plain reason that we must avoid public schools.
There is one more thing I would like to say before I get too much further into this article. Homeschooling parents are easily offended (See? I offended you just by saying that!). Some may consider this a rash generalization, but in my experience it is true. Homeschoolers are often on the defensive, though certainly this is changing as homeschooling becomes a more widely accepted option in the church and in the wider culture. For many years homeschoolers have had to defend their choice in education and they have grown weary of defending against misunderstandings and strawman arguments. I am not going to argue that, if we homeschool, our children will end up having no social skills, we will have to move to the country to raise our own beef, I’ll have to throw away my deodorant and my wife will have to grow her hair past her waist and begin making all of our clothes. I hope not to fall into caricatures of homeschooling. Feel free to correct me if I do. There is much I admire about those who choose to homeschool. Honest. At the same time, please do not use caricatures to describe public schools as being always boring, filled with disinterested Wiccan teachers or serving as training grounds for automatons who are being trained only to work in factories.
And with this in mind I would like to explain why my wife and I have chosen to have our children attend public schools. Please note the word “chosen.” Some people seem to feel that only in the absence of conviction do parents send their children to public schools. This is not the case with my wife. Aileen and I, having spent a great deal of time thinking and praying over the options available to us, send our children to public schools on the basis of conviction.
I think it bears mention here that homeschooling is not typically an isolated choice. In my experience (and I have quite extensive experience with families that homeschool) the decision to homeschool is an aspect of a larger ideology. There is a set of underlying beliefs that prompt a family to homeschool their children. In my experience an aspect of these beliefs deal with how Christians are to interact with the world. For example, I am sure you would find it true that families that place their children in Christian schools are somewhat less likely to allow their children to participate in Halloween than families that place their children in public schools. It is easy to say that these families only participate in Halloween because they do not feel they can deny their children a privilege every other child in the class will enjoy, but I think this is too simplistic a view. Some people’s understanding of how Christians are to interact with the culture lead them to participate in events such as Halloween. There would be a further degree of separation between families that homeschool versus families that accept public schools so that children of homeschooling families are far less likely to participate in Halloween than children who attend public schools. You and I both know this is true.
I would suggest that there may be other differences relating to children participating in sports leagues (children in public schools will, in my experience, be more likely to participate in leagues than children who are educated in other ways) and even in the way a family relates to other families in the neighborhood. Homeschooling can rarely be separated from other aspects of a family’s beliefs and the outworking of those beliefs. Parenthetically, I will affirm that this is not always the case. There are some families who may break the mold, but I think the point is valid and clear and applies to the majority of families who homeschool.
Douglas Wilson differentiates between homeschoolers and what he called “Homers” in an article he wrote for Credenda Agenda. Homeschoolers, he says, are “people who have carefully considered all the options available to them in the education of their children, have prayerfully weighed them, and have decided to provide their children with an education at home.” Homers are extremists who “have a completely different attitude toward the process of homeschooling. No longer an instrument or means of educating their children, homeschooling has become, in their hands, a very modern manifestation of home as ideology. In this thinking, home is a defining principle to which everything else must conform. Even the church is brought into the service of the home. Father is no longer a father; he is a prophet, priest and king. Any home is capable of doing anything that is worth doing. A radical home-centeredness takes over, insisting that the home can not only replace the school, but also the church and the civil magistrate, not to mention Safeway and General Motors.”
I am not sure the distinction between these two groups is always perfectly clear, but do think Wilson makes a distinction worth noting. What makes both groups similar, though, is that the decision to homeschool cannot be removed from other beliefs and ideologies. At the risk of belaboring the point, let me state this once more: homeschooling is rarely a decision that is completely independent of other beliefs. The beliefs that impact educational choice are, in my experience, related to the understanding of how we, as Christians, are to relate to the people and to the culture around us. It is related to how we are to be in the world but not of the world.
And all this is to say that my beliefs about the world and the culture and the relationship of Christians to them is a large part of what motivates me to send my children to public schools. Just as ideology is what motivates some Christians to homeschool, ideology motivates me to have my children in the public school system. I am convicted that my children ought to be in public schools.
And, lest this article grow to a ridiculous length, I will break here and return tomorrow (Lord willing) with more on this topic.



Comments (119) »
1. Ron Harvey
December 12, 2006
11:03 AM
Tim,
As a pastor, and while two kids were growing up, I was asked over and over again why I didn’t “home-school, or send them to a Christian School.” To which I answered, “They are home-schooled and they do get a Christian education.” We were every bit involved with our kids education from one inch within the frame of the door at home and to one inch of the frame of the school house door. When there were board meetings that I felt I should attend (they are ALWAYS on a Wednesday night) I would get someone to cover for me at mid-week Bible study (wow, I am dating myself). That’s how we got involved, stay involved … that is the key.
2. s. zeilenga
December 12, 2006
11:05 AM
I was raised in a Christian family and my parents sent me to public school. I wouldn’t trade the experience for anything. I loved my time there. And I managed remain pure (sexually, drug use etc) through graduation. I was able to connect with the few Christians who went to that school with me and witness effectively to the others. I would even venture to say that my faith is stronger because of the 6 years of public school testing and molding. God really used it to mature my faith.
But, having said that, I am not sure if I will send my kids to public school. I am only dating my future wife now, so we haven’t talked much on this subject, but I would definately have to hear from God on what to do. I don’t trust the public school system in what they teach, or in how they supervise my child in the midst of the current system.
I think what it comes down to for many (at least it did for me) is the strength and character that the child learns from the parents. Christian education starts at home.
z.
3. Bibliomaniac
December 12, 2006
11:09 AM
Tim said: “Before I continue, I would like to affirm that I believe this is an area in which Christians have freedom from God to do what we feel is appropriate for our individual families.”
Thank you for saying that up front, Tim.
My wife and I are not homeschoolers, but we have friends who homeschool, and we fully support those parents who choose this path. However, I’ve lost count of the number of times that homeschool parents have looked at us glaringly and condescendingly when they find out we don’t homeschool our kids. We used to sell children’s books at large homeschool conventions, and whenever we struck up conversations with parents and the details came out that we didn’t homeschool, many parents would suddenly abort the conversation and acted as if they’d found out we had leprosy. The self-righteousness was so sickening we finally stopped doing homeschool shows altogether.
Fortunately, we know several homeschool couples who haven’t been so judgmental…and we value and appreciate their friendship.
4. John Hollandsworth
December 12, 2006
11:17 AM
Well, since this is one of those non-controversial posts that won’t generate much comment, I’ll put in mine to keep it from being too lonely.
We have both homeschooled and Christian schooled and have thought about public schooling. My major concern with public schooling, at least in my area, is my young children being exposed to things, like profanity and sexual crudity, that they are not yet spiritually equipped to handle. Teachers in typical school settings simply can’t control what goes on in the hall, in the bathrooms, on the playground. We have had to deal with these issues in our private Christian school, and I could cite multiple conversations with parents saying the situation is much worse in the public arena. I don’t have a problem with a 16 year old walking where they may be rattlesnakes by himself, I do have a problem with a 4 year old being alone around them. That said, there are difficulties with raising kids no matter how you do it in a fallen world, and I agree with Tim that this is an area that Scripture gives us principles, not pronouncements.
5. Todd H. from Zeeland
December 12, 2006
11:40 AM
I’m curious, would you choose Christian schooling if it were free?
For me it is worth the financial sacrafice (and I know its a big one) to have my children in a school where God is tought in the classroom versus a school where God is not even mentioned.
TH
6. Steve Sensenig
December 12, 2006
11:45 AM
I’ll refrain from commenting until you’ve had your say completely, Tim, but did want to at least poke my head in here to say that I’m really looking forward to reading the rest of this. I’m sure it will spark some interesting discussion, to say the least ;)
steve :)
7. Albert
December 12, 2006
11:48 AM
Tim,
My wife and I are a young couple currently without any children. We also know many good Christian families who have adopted a wide range of convictions regarding child schooling. It is probably the biggest decision Christian and non-Christian parents make next to having children in the first place. I agree, wholeheartedly, with you regarding the fact that there is a lot of freedom in this area. I also agree with you about the fact that homeschoolers are typically more militant in their ideological convictions and it clearly translates to other areas in their interactions with the world at large.
While we don’t have children yet, my chief concerns regarding public school is not necessarily the “moral” issues that our children may face at school, e.g., profanity, sex, drug use. I hope that if we raise them right and Lord-willing they become Christians, they will make proper choices accordingly. If they don’t, they certainly will face the consequences of their actions, one way or the other.
However, I am most concerned with the ideologies and philosophies being promoted at public schools. I feel that younger children, especially, would have a very hard time with such a dichotomy between what their parents are telling them is “truth” and what their teachers are telling them what is “truth.” Why send my children to school everyday and tell them when they come home that much of what they learned is wrong. The worldview differences between what is promulgated through contemporary secular schools is so distinct and contrary to what the Bible promotes. I feel in time, probably during adolescence, children can figure out the differences, but during primary school ages, they are being bombarded with ideologies from all over.
I believe in interacting with the world and culture at large. I just don’t know if I want to use my little children as part of that interaction.
Cheers,
Albert
8. Peter
December 12, 2006
11:51 AM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with humility and respect Tim. As a former homeschooler, it is my fervent hope that people who share my convictions on homeschooling approach this comment section with the same level of humility. The seemingly endless critique we receive for our educational choices should motivate us to respond with the grace we wished we received more often.
I am eager to hear more of your thoughts, as well as those of your readers.
9. John Hollandsworth
December 12, 2006
11:55 AM
Tim,
I agree that Christian schools are populated by children with sin natures, just like public schools, but I think the expression, in both severity and quantity, is less, although that is very dependent on the individual school, whether Christian or public. I’ve talked to local parents who had to explain the F word scrawled on a 4th grade classroom wall and talk about their 7th grader being solicited to buy drugs on school property and teenagers being afraid even to enter a school restroom alone—- these are conditions that exist in my local public schools that don’t in a private school environment. But, you also have to equip your kids to recognize evil and either flee or fight, as the occasion demands. I think it depends on the individual child, the individual situation, as to where God’s will lies.
10. Flawedcricket
December 12, 2006
11:58 AM
I was looking foward to your post due to the fact that my wife and I are thinking/praying through this exact issue. Our three children currently attend a Christian school where my wife is also a teacher. We pray every year about home/Christian/home school, this year moreso than ever due to their increasing ages which we’ve found affects each option. Not to mention the fact that I pastor a church in which most families home-school (the families who are involved in Christian and public schools are in the minority).
All that said, I am disappointed because I now have to wait until tomorrow to actually read your reasons for sending your kids to public school. You had to spend 1478 words and 3 pages (yes, I counted) qualifying your decision and making sure no one was offended because Christians, for the most part, have never read or studied Romans 14.
Maybe this article should have been titled, “Education: A Matter of Liberty/Conscience”. Then, once that was settled, you could follow-up with, “Why I Do Not Homeschool”. Of course, the title, “Why I Do Not Homeschool” is going to offend many simply because the wording will lead them to believe you don’t homeschool your kids due to the disadvantages of homeschooling rather than the advantages of public schooling. Maybe, “Why I Send My Kids to Public School” would be better.
Really, you’re in trouble at this point no matter what title you use or what arguments you present and I still have to wait until tomorrow.
11. Steve Camp
December 12, 2006
12:03 PM
Tim:
Very good article… couldn’t agree more.
Being a father of five (four of which are teenagers now), they currently attend public school (which in this area of the country are excellent with many of the teachers and principals are Christian).
I was raised in Wheaton, IL and attended public schools all of my life and also value those experiences.
For the first few years my older children attended the finest private school in the Nashville area. It was money wasted.
Parents who home-school I do respect and understand the myriad of reasoning behind it. But I do not see the public school system (at least in our area) as the nexus of evil intent that most evangelicals claim it is.
It is clearly a conscience issue. FYI, - the life and example of Daniel proves helpful on this as well (Daniel 1-2).
Thank you again brother for your thoughts…
Campi
12. Lisa C.
December 12, 2006
12:06 PM
Hi Tim,
As a homeschooling mom of 5 kids, (ranging in age from 7 to 16) who wears makeup, who buys white bread from the store, who doesn’t own a denim jumper, who lives in a subdivision and who drives a regular mini van rather than a 14-passenger bus, I appreciate your attempt at not boiling down all homeschoolers into their typical charicatures.
I never EVER planned on being a homeschooling mom. I don’t fit the mold. But our decision wasn’t about me.
People homeschool for many reasons. In my case, my husband and I sought the Lord, and we know that for our family this is what He would have us do. My assumption is that you and your wife sought His will, too, although I didn’t see that mentioned in your article. I did see you mention conviction, but this can be based on ideology alone, with or without the Holy Spirit’s prompting in such areas. I can argue a lot of things, but when a brother or sister in the Lord tells me they sense a leading from the Holy Spirit to decide on something in the “freedom in the Lord” category, who am I to argue with that?
Respect is a rare commodity in the church as a whole, sadly. Homeschoolers feel they must defend their choice, as do public schoolers and Christian schoolers. We all must make decisions for our families (hey, it even starts in the infant years… have you experienced the breastfeeding vs. bottle feeding wars, or the attachment parenting vs. Ezzo wars? Yikes) I’ll be honest, it bothers me that you felt you even needed to defend your choice. Perhaps we’re all too much into each others’ business, as my mom would say ;-)
FWIW, I do not have a degree. Various studies have indicated that the lack of post high school education has no effect on homeschoolers’ standardized testing scores. This has been our experience, too. Several of my kids test years ahead of their actual grades, and are actively involved in sports events alongside and on the same teams as public/private schoolers. They are active in the community, neighborhood and church. Many people are surprised to find out that my kids are homeschoolers… not sure if that’s good or bad *wink*, but they do engage in the culture in doses that my husband and I feel are appropriate for their individual ages, personality types, strengths and weaknesses.
I will say that my husband’s extensive experience as a youth pastor (over 20yrs.) did play a role in our decision to teach our kids at home. Yet that same experience also caused us to choose to not cloister our kids from the world in which they live. We really feel they’re getting the best of both worlds, yet we know not everyone will make that same decision in their families, and we’re OK with that.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of your article.
13. jason allen
December 12, 2006
12:08 PM
Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate what you have said and how you have said it.
14. blest
December 12, 2006
12:16 PM
“Homeschoolers are easily offended” …
Actually, I think parents in general are easily offended at anything that implies judgment on their decisions regarding their children. Public school parents are just as sensitive in their interactions with homeschoolers. I’m a pretty mellow homeschooler - I really don’t consider others’ choices about education to be my business. But more often than not, as soon as I say I homeschool (usually in response to a question like “Where does Daniel go to school?), the non-homeschooling parent goes on the defensive. There have also been a lot of accusations of homeschool snobbery (not here - I mean in general) when the real issue was scheduling. I hang out with homeschoolers more because of logistical considerations. Parents whose kids are in school are much more limited in when they can get together because of the school’s timetable.
We’re all touchy. And it’s next to impossible to discuss your reasons for doing what your doing without giving the impression that you are disdaining those who think differently.
But of course Tim, you are doing a great job of writing graciously - as usual. :-)
15. Jim Vellenga
December 12, 2006
12:30 PM
Nice introduction, all be it, a little long. What impresses me is how hard you try not to offend anyone through their misunderstanding what you are are actually saying. Bravo!
I have been in both public schools (elementary levels) and Christian school (highschool levels). My experiences in both were good, but in my public school times, there were others who agreed with me on certain worldview issues. (Not that I would have called them that back then) Today, talking to the teens I teach in my catechism class, the picture is quite different. The Post-modern secular mindset has filled the schools around here to the point most of them found school a constant battle, which even they as highschool students were not really ready for.
Having said that, some school districts are very different than that, so that would be a factor for me as well.
As for the choice, and yes I agree there is a choice in this, of schooling methods, my wife and I have decided to home school. I am looking forward to your presentation on the reason for the public school choice
16. drliz
December 12, 2006
12:32 PM
I love the masterful use of qualifing and parenthetical statements and clauses in this entry! I’m not a blogger (yet), but my friends get a kick out of my email because I try to anticipate every possible question or reaction and respond up front. So a brief story becomes terribly long, with opinions and research given and qualified again and again. Anyway, that’s what I thought of when I read your entry.
I’m a strong supporter of homeschooling, although I have great friends that I respect who work in public education. Of course, I don’t have any kids, so I can straddle the fence easily on this one. But my sister, who has five kids, homeschools. It took me a while to come around to her point of view. Probably what really clinched my support is the fact that it drives my very “mainstream” brother (with one kid who isn’t even in school yet) just a little nuts. Unlike you, he’s got the uniformed “but that what’s you have to do or your kids will end up weird…” line, so it’s just too tempting to drive him crazy by not agreeing with him that my sister is nuts!
17. SolShine7
December 12, 2006
12:40 PM
Challies,
Good topic. What I find interesting is how very American this topic is. I wonder how many other non-American families have the privilege to debate over this issue. Not everyone has the resources to homeschool or send their children to Christian schooling.
I wonder what the world would think if we as Christians decided to forfeit the money we send our children to private school and send it to children in foreign countries who may not be able to go to school at all because of finacial difficulties. At least we have the option of public schooling.
18. Jim Crigler
December 12, 2006
12:41 PM
1. Could you post a reference to Doug Wilson’s quote.
2. Thanks (from a home schooler)
19. Lisa C.
December 12, 2006
12:46 PM
SolShine7, interesting comment. I like it! However, I am not sure you’re aware of this, but I can homeschool all 5 of my kids, ranging in age from 1st to 11th grade, for less than $400 for the year. Amazing, isn’t it? Yet where I live, the school district on average receives about $5000 per enrolled pupil in the form of property tax revenues, along with state funding.
20. Paul
December 12, 2006
12:55 PM
I went to public schools in a small town in rural Iowa and had a great experience. There were really no extraordinary issues with bad behavior or secular humanist indoctrination. However, since moving to the Denver area, most of my peers tell stories of high school that are vastly different. I would not want to go through their experiences or put my children through that either.
I look forward to Part 2 tomorrow! I’m not (yet) married, but I tuck these things away in order to be better informed when the time comes.
21. christopher
December 12, 2006
1:01 PM
Here are a couple of questions for consideration:
(1) might it be the case that some parents who homeschool (or send their children to Christian schools) prefer to have their children associate with sinners of the pharisaical variety, rather than the tax collectors and prostitutes?
(2) might it be that some homeschool parents are unaware that the sins of the pharisees are just as (if not more) dangerous to their children than the sins of the tax collectors and prostitutes?
22. jenn r
December 12, 2006
1:07 PM
One of the comments before mine said that it is worth the sacrifice to put his kids in a school where God is taught as opposed to a school where God is not even mentioned.
I went to public school for 13 years and am now a student at the University of Florida. That being said, I was a strong believer all throughout middle school, high school, and now, in college, am an active member of a Sovereign Grace church here in Gainesville. On the other hand, there are over 10 students they went to my church’s private christian school through 8th grade, then went to the same high school as me, and are now students at UF as well. Not one of them is involved in either a campus ministry or a church up here. They would be Christmas/Easter Christians at best, despite the fact that they grew up in private christian schooling.
They may have had a more conservative schooling experience than I. But somehow, in the grace of God, I am the one who is following him daily, not them. Can either of these two situations be attributed to our differing schooling experiences?
Public school made me strong and taught me an INSANE amount of how to be in the world, but not of it. I learned how to share the gospel in my every breath, not just in some outline form in Bible class. God’s mercy kept me pure in every way-sex, drugs, alcohol…I never once went to a party in high school, but I wasn’t a nerd. I was even class President.
(This is not to knock home and private schooling. I honestly don’t know how the Lord will lead me to raise my kids. I just know that for me, public schooling was the Lord’s will and instrument for shaping my life.)
My soul’s desire to bring glory to the Lord has nothing to do with the education background I had, but instead, everything to do with a gracious God who has seen fit to keep me stong in His grace. Public, home, private, or “homer”…whichever way you choose to raise your children, it is the authentic relationship with the Lord that matters most in their lives, not the category of diploma they recieve.
23. SDGtheologica
December 12, 2006
1:13 PM
Thank you for challenging my views. I hope in the future to homeschool, if God wills. However, iron sharpening iron is always a good thing! It will be interesting to read the remainder of your post and have my ideas and hopes challenged.
Thanks Tim!
“Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future.” Proverbs 19:20
24. Jake Aharonian
December 12, 2006
1:19 PM
Tim,
I applaud your courage in tackling this subject publicly. I agree with your sentiments regarding the status of public education; I also appreciate what Steve Camp had to say regarding the matter.
Perhaps this might add another log to the fire of discussion. While I don’t know the state of education in Canada (I’m from Northern California), I can speak to my reasons for desiring a non-public school education for my son: the schools simply aren’t good enough here. I have many friends who labour diligently within the public school system here in CA; while they do so with a heart of service and love for the children whom the Lord has given them, they all acknowledge that with budget cuts, overcrowding, the No Child Left Behind Act, et al., their ability to actually educate children is greatly hindered. There are simply too many children, and too few teachers.
Now, I know this isn’t the situation in all the 50 states (and perhaps Canada too); I know that if my wife and I lived in another state (Kansas and Texas come to mind), we would be far less reticent to send our children to public school.
With this being the case, we have decided to teach our son ourselves. My (and my wife’s) experience with Christian schools has been largely negative—we found them reactionary, anti-intellectual, and, as you affirmed previously, just as depraved as public schools.
All things considered, I appreciate your transparency in considering this topic for us to hear and discuss. May the Lord richly bless you and your family!
25. Amanda
December 12, 2006
1:35 PM
Hm. I plan on homeschooling. I wonder if I’m easily offended. :-D Hey, my hair isn’t quite past my waist yet. Well, it was last year. In fact, it was down to my knees. I got it cut to about halfway down my back (gave the rest to locks of love). And hey, we don’t mind having the kids to Halloween activities! Maybe we’re atypical….or maybe we just think we are.
Seriously, though, our choice wasn’t because we feel it’s the only biblical option. I went to public schools. Except for one year, so did my husband.
The reason I want to homeschool is because I grew up in a public school that had some really great teachers. Unfortunately, the public school system was not very supportive of these teachers. Discipline barely existed. Granted, not all school systems are like this, but it has affected me. There were things that should have been done that weren’t. I have a learning disorder, but wasn’t tested because I was a girl. The schools weren’t very accomodating to those with learning disorders regardless. Some great teachers were also treated badly at my school. Badly and unfairly. I could have gotten a much better education had the teachers been allowed to teach to their full potential.
Second, I can’t say the idea that I can teach freely about God in the curriculum isn’t attractive. However, (while perhaps it should have been) it wasn’t one of the things I thought of when I made this decision.
Third, my children will get more individual attention and be able to go at a pace that suits them better than they would in most public schools.
I’m also aware that homeschooling may not be for us and we may re-evaluate whether or not to homeschool after we try it. Who knows. I hope I can do it though.
Interesting article. I don’t think people should look upon you badly simply for choosing to go the public school route. There are a lot of good public schools out there. You’ve made the choice you felt best for your family.
26. Todd H. from Zeeland
December 12, 2006
1:37 PM
[quote]…whichever way you choose to raise your children, it is the authentic relationship with the Lord that matters most in their lives, not the category of diploma they recieve. [/quote]
I would say, though, that some (not all) children might have a better chance of developing their authentic relationship with the Lord if their “developing years” are spent at a Christian School. Again, I didn’t say all, but since I don’t know if my children will need it or not, I’m going to err on the side of surrounding them with Christ followers. I’m going to do everything I can for them to grow in Christ. Its the same reason I put them in Sunday School. The same reason I censor TV programs, movies, etc.
TH
27. ReformedMommy
December 12, 2006
1:46 PM
As a child I attended both public secular and private pseudo-Christian schools. My high-school years were spent at a private all-girls boarding school in Australia (and before all you dads of girls start thinking “hey, now there’s an idea”, be aware that my school had the reputation for producing the wildest, hardest drinking college freshmen of any in my state, and that’s by Australian standards!)
My college years were spent at The Master’s College, where I was not saved until my second semester. Now I have 3 daughters, one who just began kindergarten at a tiny Christian school where my sister-in-law is her teacher, and one who attends a Lutheran preschool where probably no more than half of the parents are believers.
The best counsel I’ve received was from my sister-in-law, who herself had her kids in every arrangement of schooling throughout their years. It is “one child at a time, one year at a time.” My children have different temperaments and already demonstrate different degrees of spiritual maturity. Different methods of training will most likely be necessary at different times. My goal is to raise children who love God, love people and dedicate their hearts, souls and minds to glorifying Him and loving others. I will with God’s help use all means at my disposal to be faithful in that.
That being said, I have been amazed as my children grow older at how my constant comparisons of their development and maturing with their peers is even more full of simultaneous sinful pride and self-doubt than in my own life! I’m sure looking forward to more of that with this series! :)
28. Desiree
December 12, 2006
1:46 PM
I think this is a “touchy” issue because we’re talking about our children. There are so many factors that go into a decision such as this. We are all trying to raise God-loving children, but our methods will look different in each family. I hope we would avoid sweeping statements like “I would never send my child to public school,” etc.
One of the wonderful things about having christian families choose different methods is that it guards against legalism. Even believers who love grace have different areas of legalism: some use birth control, some don’t, some don’t eat junk food, some would never go to Disney World, some want women to wear only skirts, some never use credit cards, some don’t even own a T.V., and on and on.
We often treat other believers as less if they don’t do what we do in one of the above areas - or even how we educate our children.
I look forward to your article tomorrow, Tim. I know you and your wife are very godly. Our country is changing very rapidly these days, and christian parents have a lot to think about, don’t we?
I do homeschool, and love doing so. But I will not die on that hill. Each child is different, every city is different, every year is different, etc. We need God, not methodologies.
29. yikesmom
December 12, 2006
1:54 PM
Thanks for addressing this, we homeschool our four kids but I can honestly say that we don’t love it all the time. I can also honestly say that we are misfits in our homeschooling community as we have a TV and watch it, go trick-or-treating within our neighborhoods with our neighbors, have birthday parties for our kids with their christian and non-christian friends, don’t use all christian textbooks, etc.
I think that having our kids in public school would actually be easier for us in a lot of ways, but for now it works. The PCA By Faith magazine just addressed this whole topic a few months ago, what a wonderful article that blessed many. I think that whatever a family chooses to do should not be looked upon as the perfect or best idea. That would probably solve a lot of problems in relationships.
I think that anytime we as sinners decide that something (other than God’s grace) will keep our covenant children from falling away from Him will have created an idol and that will not do.
30. Carole
December 12, 2006
1:58 PM
“Maybe this article should have been titled, “Education: A Matter of Liberty/Conscience”. Then, once that was settled, you could follow-up with, “Why I Do Not Homeschool”. Of course, the title, “Why I Do Not Homeschool” is going to offend many simply because the wording will lead them to believe you don’t homeschool your kids due to the disadvantages of homeschooling rather than the advantages of public schooling. Maybe, “Why I Send My Kids to Public School” would be better.”
I ‘second the motion’ to change the title - it would help us easily offended homeschoolers. :)
Tim, I’m curious as to your thoughts in response to the arguments set forward in Dr. Baucham’s essay - and looking forward to reading your next installment.
http://www.voddiebaucham.org/Blog/4778995B-00A2-47D4-A5B5-BD3C720DC96D.html
31. Tom
December 12, 2006
1:58 PM
In the course of this discussion, your readers may wish to consider the following:
Dr. Wayne Grudem’s paper, Biblical Reasons for Sending Children to a Christian School.
and
Bruce Shortt’s book, The Harsh Truth About Public Schools. I have not read Mr. Shortt’s book.
Blessings, everyone, and Merry Christmas!
Tom
Doctrine Matters
32. pduggie
December 12, 2006
2:01 PM
To Christopher’s comment:
Its that kind fo questioning that makes me doubtlful that anyone can discuss these things as matters of conviction without offense. Mr Challies seems to be going in that direction too: If you homeschool from *biblical conviction*, then you do so because you have differing convictions about “how Christians relate to the world”. Mr Challies persumably believes his are the right convictions to have on this matter, which makes the convicted homeschooler mistaken, deluded, or suffering from some other defect.
33. Mike Swalm
December 12, 2006
2:01 PM
Thanks Tim. I was wondering in all of this talk about Christian liberty and freedom (a good thing, by the way) where the place of the community of faith might be. Sure, we are all responsible for our families, but doesn’t choosing to be the church entail involving the community in decisions? are our families “not our own” because we recognize that they belong to God more than to us? And if not ours but God’s, then they belong most fully to the community of God. If this reasoning stands, then shouldn’t our communities of faith be determining the best way to do things “communally” and biblically? I’ve heard too many “well, the Spirit told MY FAMILY ALONE to homeschool or public school or Christian school…” Maybe it’s time for the church to hear what the spirit is saying to the churches. This of course is not to impugn anyone’s belief that the holy spirit is speaking to them individually. what needs to happen, in my view, is the bringing together and public discernment of the holy spirit’s guidance for OUR family.
peace to you all.
mike
34. Will
December 12, 2006
2:11 PM
Just a quick comment for John about profanity, sex, drugs, etc.
I grew up in Christian schools in Atlanta. When I talked to my public school friends about what was going on in my school and the other Christian schools, they said it was at least as bad if not worse than their public schools. The guy who sang next to me in my Christian school choir was arrested along with several others during my sophomore year for a massive Christian school drug ring. There were very few people in my class who did not sleep around, and I can’t even tell you about things that went on in the class room! Profanity was a regular occurrence. And to top it off, it was a terrible education. By the way, that was in all 3 of the Christian schools I attended.
I’m not trying to make a case for or against any form a schooling, but to say that gross sinfulness happens less in Christian schools is probably not accurate. Since I’ve been out of high school for almost 10 years now, I’ve talked to others who grew up in Christian schools, and they all have very similar stories.
By the way, it’s worth noting that many of my homeschooled friends had similar experiences growing up as well.
35. Kelly
December 12, 2006
2:15 PM
I think the conversation lacks something if it stays in the “why I do not” category.
It seems helpful to me to have the conversation in a slightly different manner, “Why I homeschool …”, “Why I send my child to public school…” This is not simply to make it sound more positive.
Having the conversation from the negative like this sounds nearly as defeating as homeschoolers whose reasons for homeschooling are in the negative, “I don’t send my kids to public/christian schools because….this evil and that evil…fill in the blank”.
The centering issue, it seems to me, is “why” we do this or that. In other words, what is your goal and purpose in homeschooling? What is your goal or purpose in public schooling? What ends are we seriously trying to achieve by raising our children in the manner we do. What is the positive, end-outcome, we want achieved in our kids lives?
I could say, “I don’t send my child into a burning building because I do not want my child to be burned or killed.” I could easily and more to the point say, “I send my child to safety because I want my child healthy and alive.” Both are end-outcomes that are related but the perspective and purpose is entirely different.
Finally, the conversation reminds me of the fallacy of “affirming the disjunctive”. This is probably not so completely but might be worth considering to keep from becoming muddled:
I should homeschool or I should use public school.
I use public school.
Therefore, I should not homeschool.
I should homeschool or I should use public school.
I homeschool.
Therefore, I should not use public school.
If these are two contradictions then the argument *might* be valid. If there is possibility that both are true then this is fallacious.
The form of this conversation seems likely lend itself to fallacious thinking.
Grace and Peace,
Kelly
36. pduggie
December 12, 2006
2:16 PM
I agree with Mike Swalm. The church doesn’t speak to this and so “convictions” run rampant.
Another tragedy of the divided body of Christ.
37. Luke
December 12, 2006
2:21 PM
Tim,
WOW…a large response!!!! I am sure the next couple of posts will generate even more. That said, I’ll keep my comment to a minimum.
As a Pastor of a Church full of people who are passionate homeschoolers I feel pretty intimidated. My wife and I have 2 small children under 4. We’ve begun discussing education options. At first I was all for the home-schooling thing, but after much prayer and consideration we’ve made the choice to send our kids to a Christian school for elementary - middleschool and then to the public school in High School. We’ll see if it works that way or not…it will probably depend upon the $$$.
Because we have been led to lean in this direction I fear that, even as the Pastor, I will be looked down upon and maybe even have my character questioned for doing so. I pray the disposition you espoused in your article would be manifest in our Churches. It is a most difficult decision!
38. Van H. Edwards
December 12, 2006
2:25 PM
Thanks for this post, Tim. Will you have to rehash all your caveats tomorrow when you actually post your reasons?
A mother in our church was asked if she home-schooled, and she answered, “Yes, we home-school and every day we send them on a field trip to public school.”
As a public school parent, I appreciate this answer, not just because it’s humorous, but because it reminds all of us Christians, no matter where our children go to school, that we MUST “home school” our children in the faith.
Because of the divide that I’ve seen between the “homers” and public schoolers in my own church, I’ve been trying to interact more with them about education. I’d like to know more about what they do and why - maybe I’ll learn something. Plus, I find that this softens the “split”. Strangely enough, I’ve found a certain percentage of home schoolers don’t necessarily train in any type of biblical education. Some of the curriculum used is “Christian-themed”, but there is no real Bible training.
To them and every other Christian parent, I would say that “Sunday School” should be a supplement to the Biblical training going on at home, not the primary source. If we’re only giving our children 1 hour a week of bible stories, we’re cheating them. When I read , I’m reminded that I need to be instructing my children in the ways of God at home. But, the Bible never addresses where to take my math classes. Like Tim says, it is a matter of conscience where we owe each other much grace, not judgment.
39. Stephanie
December 12, 2006
2:28 PM
I started homeschooling for good reasons, but not out of a god-given conviction. Now it is conviction that keeps me on this path. What changed from just a good idea to a conviction? When I started researching what education really is, biblically. After looking at what God says about education, teaching and making disciples…I cannot send my children to schoool (private or public). I would challenge you to look at the ancient Hebrews contrasted with the Ancient Greeks…and look at the outcome. Homeschooling is the only viable option in my opinion to carry out all that God has asked me and my husband to do.
I feel like I have been called to train warriors for God and I feel like they need a special individualized training to accomplish this. Homeschooling is hard and I don’t always enjoy it, but I know that that is what God has asked of our family.
I know that I am at this position by God’s grace and his leading. I am one of those easily offended homeschool moms! ;) When you choose a path less taken you usually meet opposition, so I seem to always stand ready to defend. I admit it is a weakness for homeschoolers, me especially, and an area in which we all need to improve. I look forward to hear what else you have to say on the subject.
40. DeeDee
December 12, 2006
2:30 PM
I’m 40yrs old and was homeschooled my highschool years. Yep, it was really radical back then! At that time, my mom just thought it was extremely unwise to have 13yr old girls mixing, on a daily basis, with up to 18yr old young men. (I still can’t argue with that statement.) So, she sought out a way to avoid that.
Having said that, I’ve gone the “homeschooling is Biblical” route to, now, feeling it is indeed a freedom issue…although I would call it more a wisdom issue as opposed to a moral issue.
I now have 3 daughters that I have homeschooled from the begining. And although I’m sure I will have more to say on the subject after part 2, I will say this right now.
I believe I could have easily gone through public highschool with a decent education, and not getting into any trouble(i.e. staying physically pure etc). I have a very strong personality, and have never been easily swayed.
However, there is nothing more beautiful that I have ever seen, than the not only physical purity of my 14 and 15 1/2 year olds, but the purity of heart and mind they possess. Although my body possessed purity, my mind was extremely corrupted by the time I was headed into highschool. There were things that I knew and heard and saw that no young girl(or man for that matter) should know, hear or possess until just before marriage or even after marriage that her husband will introduce or explain to her.
I weep with joy when I see their beautiful innocence. Not a gilded cage innoncence, but true and right innoncence that gets completely and utterly robbed by the exposure to, not only un-godly peers, but anti-God peers. I would like to repeat that. NOT a gilded cage innoncence. Please do not think that my daughters are naive and are going to be sadly shocked at the world someday. But, with homeschooling, we have a greater measure(not perfect control) of deciding when and where our children are taught and exposed to certain things.
Anyways…this got longer than I had planned.
Looking forward to the next installment.
41. WES
December 12, 2006
2:32 PM
Tim,
Regarding your reasons for sending your children to be educated by the government system, I’d be curious how you view; ‘Excused Absence: Should Christian Kids Leave Public Schools?’ by Douglas Wilson and Marvin Olasky as well as Wilson in ‘Lost Tools of Learning’ and ‘Repairing the Ruins’.
It states, in the same way you would not send your 2nd grade daughter to a Mormon vacation bible school to ‘be in but not of’ and to be a witness…..so also, for the government controlled system.
42. g-veld
December 12, 2006
2:35 PM
My wife and are going to be enrolling our son in preschool shortly and will be deciding on the Christian/Public school question. Thanks for the posting and comments they provide good perspectives.
My concern is finding a Christian school that believes similar to what I believe. I fear ‘bad’ theology more than ‘no’ theology.
43. Dallas Pymm
December 12, 2006
2:40 PM
I would say at this point I am a freedom guy on this issue but as God has not placed it on my wife and I’s heart to have children I have not pressed the issue all that much. I only have a question to ask anyone willing to answer. Do you think this could be an area where not being unequally yoked with the world might apply and why or why not?
44. Luke
December 12, 2006
2:40 PM
I just can’t help it…I have to add one more thought!
I have been reading some who would like to fancy themselves into the delusion that sin happens less in Christian Schools. This is down right insane. To suppose that the injection of Jesus into our teaching is somehow going to erase the sinful nature of the students is insane. It is the lack of an understanding of the doctrine of sin and a complete delusion (probably uttered by those who feel the need to come up with a spiritual sounding reason to justify paying a lot of money for their kids education).
Kids in Christian schools are no less sinful than kids in public schools. Christian schools may find ways to curtail certain kinds of sins, but if you’ve searched your own soul, read the Mortification of Sin by Owen, and read the scripture at all, you’ll know that stopping sin is like playing the Smack the Mole game at Chuck-E-Cheese. Put one down and anothe pops up in its place. So, the Christian school may smack down on public display of affection, but another sin of similar consequence will replace it.
Not only do we know this in our own lives…this is why many men turn toward porn…but if you have kids you know this to be the case as well. The only benefit that can be recieved from Christian schools is simply that Christ is at the center of the education…that is reason enough to defend the decision, we don’t have to delude ourselves into such fanciful arguments as to the level of sinfulness. Not only that, but homeschooled kids get it too…they see their parents…if my kids see me every day as their teacher, they’re still looking and learning from a sick sinner. We just need to get over the whole thing about sin exposure with our kids. Even those who pride themselves with their carefulness allow their children to purvey their own soul daily ( and if we have any sense of humility and self awareness of our own sin, there’d probably less talk of this nature).
That said, though there is not one verse anywhere in scripture to support this, we are to judge the degree of sin we’ll allow our children to survey. I do think it wise to pursue our own holiness and seek to establish it in the lives of our children. Thus, in the end we must be careful but ultimately trust the sovereign hand of God to preserve and save our kids, not the degree of sin thier exposed to.
45. christopher
December 12, 2006
2:40 PM
Pduggie:
My questions in comment 22 above were not at all meant to cause “offense,” but merely to raise the point that if we view sin not merely as bad deeds (but also as self-righteousness), then this seems to weaken the argument that we should avoid public schools because the kids there are “sinners.” i am a member of a church where parents take advantage of many educational options (homeschool, private Christian, private non-Christian, charter school, public school), although i believe (but am not certain) that most home school. i assume that the parents’ decisions are based on several factors: finances, theological conviction, safety, quality, inlfuence of peers, etc. i do not have any kids, but if i do, i suspect that all of these factors will influence my decision, as well as the maturity, temperament, and degree of discernment displayed by each individual child. Nevertheless, i still maintain that educating my children in the presence of other sinners will be unavoidable regardless of which option i choose—even homeschooling.
46. Kate Sachsay
December 12, 2006
2:50 PM
Absolutely fantastic essay. Look forward to Part 2. Granted, I risk having a beam in my own eye with this comment, but see how many people call public schools “government schools” in the perjorative sense. That makes your point even stronger when they do that. Such spiritual arrogance. It is a paramount reason we too will choose - key word - our city’s wonderful public school.
47. brian @ voiceofthesheep
December 12, 2006
2:53 PM
One of the main reasons we homeschool is that we simply prefer to spend more time with our children than a couple of hours each weeknight and then on weekends.
Judging from my neighbors accross the street whose children attend public school, a child spends approximately eight hours away from home while at school. They then have, on average, two or three hours worth of homework to finish before the next school day. In other words, they are doing something related to school seemingly all day almost right up until bedtime.
Our typical homeschool day consists of about four to five hours of schooling, and that’s it.
By the way…we also participate in Halloween, buy bread from a store, and participate in sports…so I guess we also break the stereotypical mold as well.
ps. I and my wife were both products of the public school system and both came out fine…I guess (that is up for debate). But I also remember some of the things I had to endure that I would not wish upon my worst of enemies.
I don’t look down on parents that go the public school route. I just am thankful to my Creator that He allows our children to spend the majority of their time with me and my wife instead of in the hands of the government education system…not that there’s anything wrong with that. ;)
48. Carole
December 12, 2006
2:58 PM
In response to G-VELD:
“My concern is finding a Christian school that believes similar to what I believe. I fear ‘bad’ theology more than
‘no’ theology.”
Keep in mind that what may appear as ‘no theology’ really does promote a religious perspective of some kind (for example secular humanism, socialism, polythiesm…) We all subscribe to a world view which contains some form of religious belief (even atheism is a kind of ‘faith’). I’m not promoting ‘bad theology’ - just wanted to clarify that there’s ‘theology’ at stake in the public schools, too - they just don’t call it that.
49. Luke
December 12, 2006
3:01 PM
Dallas,
Unequally yoked. Public Schooling as an issue of being unequally yoked…I would say, not applicable.
To be yoked to another is to be under their sole direction. The picture of the yoke in the scripture is used two ways. First, Christ uses it to describe coming under his rule. To be a Christian is to be solely under his leadership, completely under his rule and control. The implication is that if we are under the yoke of Christ that He is our Lord.
The other picture is that of marriage. Paul uses this in 1 Cor. 7 to describe the marriage relationship. That the marriage relationship is to be under the same authority. The implication is that if we are to unite ourselves, intimately, with another, they are to be of like mind regarding the yoke of Christ.
This is the principle: entering into an intimate relationship with another (with Christ, solely committed to Him; with a spouse, united together under Christ).
The whole picture of the yoke is meant for intimate relationships with individuals, not with institutions or systems. This picture is used to describe a relationship with individuals.
That said, I do not think we can use this to evaluate the decision for or against school choices. To do so would require using the principle to apply to things the word of God does not do.
For example. Say I choose to send my child to a public school, but I choose to also educate my child at home and help him evaluate all his learning and, I personally, inject Christ into all the teaching. Let us say, as is common, a child has a Christian teacher who is like minded in his math class. But, then, as was in my case, every other teacher was lost…and some visibly so.
If we are not to have relationship with any system or institution that is not inherently christian, then even a secular job is sinful. But, if we move beyond institutions and begin evaluating individual teachers then we have a problem. So one might be in a position where their kid is publicly educated by teachers that are professing Christians, but homeschooled in all classes that are not taught by Christians. This is not right either…it just simply misses the point.
The point Jesus is making, and the point Paul is making, is extremely intimate. If the degree of intimacy exists with you and your job, school, club, or anyone but your spouse or Christ…your not simply unequally yoked, but in a serious degree of sin beyond that. For your kids…there is a kind of abuse taking place that the Catholic Church has been wrestling with now for some time.
50. jmark
December 12, 2006
3:01 PM
Dallas Pymm wrote
“as God has not placed it on my wife and I’s heart to have children.”
I understand that this may be a sensitive matter, but since you have stated it in open forum I feel I can respond publicly.
I can understand that a couple might be unable to have children, but to willingly say “God hasnt laid it on our hearts - that to me seems to fly in the face of a very direct command to be fruitful and increase in number.
I’m not sure that having children is a matter that needs guidance - the ‘when’ and ‘how many’ are matters of wisdom - but there is no question on the having of them. God’s word is clear. This sentiment seems akin to saying God hasnt laid it on my heart to go to church.
If there are pressing physiological or medical reasons, I understand - and I dont need to know the details. But its just that in counselling a Christian couple recently I came across this came idea - “we’ll have kids if we want to”.
I dont think God has left it up to us to decide
51. deanna
December 12, 2006
3:05 PM
I first want to say that I have greatly enjoyed your post AND the comments. Your post reflects much of what my husband and I believe as well, the comments reflect much of what I would expect to hear.
I, myself, grew up in a Christian home, attended public school and later a Christian college. Both of my parents were public school teachers and I later became a teacher. God lead me to teach in a Christian school, which honestly was my last choice as a career. Having student taught in an inner-city school, my heart was really for the lost and needy, but God had another plan for me.
In my experience as an elementary school teacher in a wonderful Christian school, I realized that for myself the greatest temptation would be as a parent to have a false sense of security about the spiritual needs of my children should I choose to send them to Christian school, let alone homeschool them. The exposure for these children is similar in Christian and public school and for homeschooled children? That mostly depends on how involved the parents choose to be in the world.
My husband and I have launched both our children into public school with a Christian foundation at home and strive to instill in them all the spiritual armor and weapons they will need to prepare them for each and every battle. The lessons we have learned together, whether it be inappropriate discussions, mistreatment of others or profanity, are extremely valuable in my opinion. I can’t imagine that I would be able to recreate any of these same lessons at home.
That is not to say that if I felt my child was receiving an education that did not meet her needs that I wouldn’t consider homeschooling, but at this point, I have yet to feel myself convicted that it would be better for my children. There are days when the I think to myself that I don’t want to deal with the issues any longer in public school and think about throwing in the towel. I am reminded that I’m not doing this alone, that the power within us if far greater, that our light in that darkness needs to stay lit. Our influence goes far beyond just our children, it continues with us, our relationships with staff and other parents and the children that our kids befriend.
I’m quite comfortable with our decision and but for the random criticism of homeschooling or Christian schooling friends, I have for the most part felt supported by parents of all different positions. This is our fourth year with our two girls in public school and I was reminded at our first conference why we made this choice. As I was leaving my daughter’s classroom, there on the wall behind her teacher’s desk were the fruits of the spirit, written out by my daughter, posted for all to see as behavior worth striving for. I’m on my toes, alert for my children and that is where God wants us!
52. Elizabeth
December 12, 2006
3:13 PM
Hi Tim,
Unless you receive loads of comments on this topic, I’m curious to know your motivation for writing this piece, since the tone sounds a bit demeaning and suggestive of “I’m the stronger Christian”- as if you have something to prove/explain. I think it reads this way because of your use of phrases such as:
“This is an area of weaker and stronger Christians.”
I respectfully disagree with this highly definitive statement (and most definitive statements unless they come from scripture or a mathematics textbook- a man once said, ‘To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.”)
You also wrote, “Homeschooling parents are easily offended (See? I offended you just by saying that!).”
Ugh, another definitive statement… In my opinion, people who are “easily offended” are so because they are constantly on the defense from their attackers… and in case you’re wondering “No”, I’m not a homeschooler nor did I grow up homeschooled.
I’m guessing from the tone of this piece and the replies your audience is mostly suburban?
And, I’m curious in Canada do you have to deal with school zoning laws? I ask because my family lives in New York City and we do not live in the greatest neighborhood; therefore, the public schools which my children would have to attend are sub par and down right scary. Several of the schools in poor neighborhoods here have no AC in the summer and no heat in the winter. Additionally, there are several cases of girls who engage in transactional sex for protection from gangs. Clearly for safety, health and other concerns we would not send our children to public schools in our neighborhood. This has nothing to do with being “weak”- we could care less if our children go to a secular or Christian (incl. Catholic) private school as long as it is safe and they will actually learn.
I also teach ESL at an after-school program in the Bronx, it is not only the students who curse and make violent threats but the teachers do as well. I have heard it repeatedly and this is not an acceptable environment for a child.
Lastly, you mentioned you went to private school and experienced pornography, profanity etc. there. I also went to private school and even though I couldn’t stand the teachers, I was never exposed to any type of pornography or profanity, which makes me believe this entire debate is highly subjective.
Just a thought, maybe in the future someone could read over your pieces for a “loving tone” and “loving motivation” before posting pieces such as this.
Warm regards,
Elizabeth
53. Charley
December 12, 2006
3:16 PM
Tim,
I have seen the comment by Doug Wilson before and find it incredibly offensive. (Gee…must be one of those touchy homeschoolers!) Look at the emotional words he uses to make derogatory comments about people who are of strong conviction about the way they organize and run their families: first he calls them a name (homer), then he uses the terms “extremist” and “radical.” Mr. Wilson is usually a fine debater and author. But in this case, he falls into the same trap as most liberals…group those with whom you disagree by using a derogatory name and then add a label, making sure it includes the words “extreme” and “radical.” That pretty much stops any argument right there.
You were trying very hard to be fair and even-handed in your post…but Mr. Wilson’s quote trashes every effort you made.
The method any Christian uses to educate his child is not a matter of salvation or Christian essentials. There is freedom here. But whatever one does, he should be convinced in his own mind that he has solid, Scripture directive for his action. Personally, I do believe there are good, solid Biblical reasons for educating your children at home and I do believe there are good, solid Biblical reasons for NOT sending them to a public school. And I do believe there is the area of jurisdiction of the family that has been woefully ignored, weakened and encroached upon in modern times, especially by the government. Will I believe you are wrong for sending your children to public school? Because of my beliefs…Yes. (Consider for a minute that my family and I have made our decisions based on conviction. If I didn’t believe what I was doing was based in Scripture, I wouldn’t be doing it. Therefore it stands to reason that I have to believe it is wrong to do otherwise. For me to say it is OK for you to public school is to say that my Scriptural reasons for homeschooling are not valid. In other words, where a dichotomy such as this exists, for me to say you are correct means I must be wrong…just as it would mean that you must be wrong if you admit that I am correct.) Is it my business to dump on you for it? NO! This would be an issue where we should all employ Christian courtesy and grace to each other (something Mr. Wilson didn’t do). There are appropriate places for a debate. For instance, if we were friends and having a discussion, I would certainly try to persuade you.
Do these views make me radical or extreme? Sadly, I guess it does in Mr. Wilson’s eyes. Oh well….
Check out my blog to see how truly “extreme” I am….
Blessings.
Charley
54. Dallas Pymm
December 12, 2006
3:22 PM
Thanks for the reply Luke. That seems to make sense to me as I was also making the connecting with the job issue as well.
I also appreciate the concern you expressed jmark. Your kind loving tone was very encouraging for a discussion. The two times scripture references a command to be fruitful and multiply it is to a distinct family (Adam and Eve, Noah) each time directed to the only family on earth. I just don’t see how this applies to a 21st century Christian with a world population of over a billion. Get my drift? I realize children are a great blessing from experience with children and from scripture, but I don’t think this equals a demand to have children. It will certainly free my wife and I to do other forms of ministry, which I think a family qualifies as, to not choose to be blessed with children. As with the choice to homes cool or not, I feel the choice to have children or not is also a matter a Christian freedom.
Sorry Tim. I did not mean for this to come up like this, I have no problem talking about this if you don’t. :o)
55. carissa
December 12, 2006
3:23 PM
i know next to nothing about parenting and i’m at least several years away from having children, but i have been in school for 15 years straight so i’m going to write this anyway.
at 19 years old i had my very first experience with private Christian education after california public schools for my entire k-12 career, as well as a year and a half of a california public university. Christian college opened up a whole new world - on the one hand, an amazing world of chapels, Godly professors praying for us, and 30 units of bible classes; on the other hand, a much smaller, less diverse world where hypocrisy and apathy were disappointingly easy to find. thankfully, i haven’t seen much gross licentiousness (some, of course, but not as much as public school). still, it was quite an adjustment. in public university, (good) Christians tend to take their public testimony seriously; at Christian university, people too often tend to treat each other as poorly as we let each other get away with, because ‘there’s no one to impress.’ all in all, each side has its advantages and disadvantages. i like Christian university very well and i don’t regret coming here at all.
i’ll add that i have no experience with homeschool whatsoever, and since i turned out okay without it i suppose that fairly convinces me that it’s not THE necessary way to do education. however, one thing i do agree with is that spiritual, moral, and even social education originates in the home (and church), so that WHERE academic education takes place matters much less than WHO the child being educated is, and HOW s/he has been raised.
56. dime/dozen
December 12, 2006
3:25 PM
So subjective, so subjective. Like many ‘issues’ it seems this one is simply fun to talk about, to hear ourselves pontificate and ramp up our opinions for, I guess, the sake of arguement. Like shaking up a bottle of pop and handing it to an unsuspecting friend to open.
While it has been stated ( and I agree with the scolding for the inflamatory title choice, given what he went on to say…just my ‘opinion’) that Tim qualifies and pre-empts his statements with Romans 14 logic, which is fine if what we are talking about is the contemplation of what might be considered a ‘sin’…what this approach tends to achieve with a topic like this is the deepening of distinctions, aggravating defensiveness. While it is not stated outright in Tim’s defense of public school ‘choice’, what is implied by his defense is his own version of moral high ground which, just by striking up the conversation, reveals underpinnings of judgement and superiority…not unlike the treatment experienced by judgemental homeschoolers.
The reasons for exercising any of the educational methods are as varied as the parents, teachers, and children involved. If someone choses to utilize one instead of the other there are going to be positive and negative ramifications…period. A poor teacher and a slouching system can harm and disappoint to the same degree that an ineffective parent can stunt and disadvantage a child. Likewise, an excellent teacher OR an excellent parent can provide positive influences and growth oppotunities for a child…WHILE disadvantaging in some ways.
The question is not about pros and cons of methods, rather, ‘What is the best choice for my unique child, given what is available.’ I know parents and teachers and children involved in all three approaches. ALL good…and bad. We make most decisions for our children based upon what we believe about our experiences. Our fears become their fears to the same degree that our ‘ideals’ become their ideals…temporarily. Later, the child must make their own, often opposing, decisions based upon what they experienced from their parents and how they feel and think about its affect on their current reality.
When making a decision, realizing how many variables factor into the process, a parent would do well to research their schools, interview the teachers, self-assess their own aptitude, then factor in their time/financial restriants…and then make a decision based upon what THEIR particular child in THEIR particular situation would benefit from the most. This is not a better than/worse than situation…therefore expending energy generating dialogue defending positions scuttles understanding of how children develop and introduces polarities paramount to ‘class’ distinctions. Entirely subjective! We, as parents, AND the ‘world’ will superimpose values upon our children. As they grow they must ‘sort out’ and fill in the blanks for themselves. A parent benefits their child by by teaching them to THINK about how they are engaging with ALL of life…regardless of socio-economic positioning. Any pop left in the can? And yes, I have children…but no I’m not going to say how they are being schooled.
57. Todd H. from Zeeland
December 12, 2006
3:30 PM
I found the link in post #32 to Dr. Wayne Grudem’s paper,
Biblical Reasons for Sending Children to a Christian School.
very convincing and biblically based. I would like to see someone dispute his paper.
58. pduggie
December 12, 2006
3:32 PM
Sorry Christopher:
I misunderstood your questions as implying that homeschoolers were ignorant (deliberately or not) of the idea that sin can take manifold forms, and were actually choosing pharasaical sin as lesser of two evils.
It still seems to me that if Homeschooling/Christian schooling is dicussed from the perspective of biblical conviction or theological principle its inherently a win/lose kind of argumen; and if one tries to put it into the prudence category, those with convictions lose the argument as lacking prudence because they do it from conviction.
59. Daniel
December 12, 2006
3:37 PM
Homeschooling isn’t for everyone.
When our eldest was still two or three years old I found myself puffed up with pride at how intelligent he seemed to be. I began to insist upon a correct annunciation and articulation of the English language, and my constant correction caused such anxiety in him, that he still has something of a stutter to this day - to my shame.
In a loving way, at that time, my dear wife - God bless her - took me aside and instructed me in an area where I had been quite blind. She explained with a profound reasoning and clarity that in the future, when my son turned ten he would speak just like all the other ten year old boys, and whatever efforts I made now to instill perfect diction in him could have one, and only one lasting effect - and that he would grow up with a sense that he could never please me, and eventually he would quit trying.
She suggested that I sit down and carefully consider what I want my son to be as a man, and what sort of relationship I want to have with my son when he was grown, and then to act in a way that would not hinder that.
It was a defining moment in my life, because when I did stop and consider, I realized that I didn’t want my son to make all the same errors in his life that I had made in mine. I wanted my son to love the Lord with all his heart, and to be happy. I really didn’t care if he was a billionaire or a pauper, I knew that God would look after feeding and clothing him - all I wanted was for my boy was a life dependant on the Lord, and consequently, a life of unfeigned and perpetual joy.
Homeschooling came quite naturally after that - as both myself and my wife had worked in the public school system and felt that being raised by a band of peers - and a secular band at that - while it may not destroy our efforts to raise our children in the joy of the Lord - it certainly wouldn’t help it.
We were as deceived about our own avarice as most are today - we wanted the big house, and we felt we couldn’t get by on just one income - but I put my trust in the Lord, sold our big old idol (house), and bought something more within our means - and now we find that we have as much as we need, and even plenty to give.
My father used to work for an order of Jesuit priests, I still recall with cold clarity the day my father told me about something one of the Jesuits had said - and this was before I knew the Lord, “Give us a boy as a babe, and let us bring him up to the age of eight years old, and he will be a Jesuit the rest of his life” - they understood that proverb about bringing up a child in the way he is to go. They understood that indoctrination is most effective when it happens at an early age.
Our decision to homeschool therefore was also influenced by this concern regarding the inevitability of a peer-driven, secular indoctrination, regardless of how effective it was. If we could homeschool until the age of at least nine or ten we felt we would have avoided a lot of the problems we were most concerned about.
As it turns out however, we noticed that where our children remained best friends as they grew up, yet we saw their peers in other families immediately separate from themselves from their siblings - making a distinction between family and friend - you are my sister, not my friend - my friends have to be in the same grade, and class as me, and even the same gender - that is how everyone else does it, and so it must be right, and mom and dad can’t change that. We would have never even noticed this sort of ugly attitude had we not been homeschooling - yet there it was, not amongst the homeschooled, but amongst the institutionalized - their value system, bit by bit was being programmed into them by “the system.” If the teacher says this is okay, all the students must agree, and anyone who doesn’t is to be ostracized and ridiculed.
As a homeschooler, I am certain that I have a clear and present bias - I am convicted that I cannot put my little ones into a system that works against what we are trying to do as parents.
That being said, I have some respect for the faith of those people who choose public school not out of ease or avarice, but because they are mature enough (spiritually) to put their little ones into the world’s maw and not flinch - even when they know the child to be at an age when they are most impressionable, most vulnerable, and most susceptable to corruption.
It is much easier for me to imagine that most people are simply not that mature, and that the decision to use public schools happens either by default, or because the parents believes that God won’t provide for them a standard of living that suits them unless both parents have a job.
Boy, when you are willing to be poor, only then can you be truly rich.
60. christopher
December 12, 2006
3:47 PM
Well, Pduggie, my questions WERE meant to imply that *some* homeschoolers are ignorant “of the idea that sin can take manifold forms, and were actually choosing pharasaical sin as lesser of two evils.” (Although i am not persuaded that pharasaism is the lesser evil.) But this myopia is in no way limited to homeschoolers. But please note, i did NOT suggest that this was true of ALL or even a majority of home-schooling parents. However, this has been true of some that i have known. If this is not true of you, then no need to take offense. i just do not find the “limited exposure to sin” argument to be very persuasive in favor of homeschooling or private Christian schooling. But i would also hasten to add that some of those Christian parents who send their (often) un-regenerate and undiscerning young children to public schools as young missionaries may be fooling themselves.
61. WES
December 12, 2006
4:00 PM
My wife and I are leaning in the homeschooling direction mainly due to the following general ideas;
‘Not saying anything about God from 8-3pm, 5 days a week, 9 months(in public education) says a lot about God. It teaches children that God either does not exist or he is irrelevant. ’
-I think R.C. Sproul
The book ‘Total Truth’ by Nancy Pearcy resonates with this idea showing the mental/spiritual dualistic notation people often miss. Meaning; God is only at church and home, instead of everywhere…..even in physics class.
‘I advise no one to place his child where the Scripture do not reign paramount. I am much afraid that schools will prove to be the great gates of hell unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures engraving them in the hearts of youth.’
-Martin Luther
‘Education is never religiously neutral.’
-R.L. Dabney
‘Because our kids belong to God, are we called to surround them with a biblical worldview from the time
they get up to the time they go down, including the hours from 8:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m.? Education is essentially religious. Education deals with the basic questions of life, and those questions require a religious answer. Learning to read and write gives people the tools to ask and answers such questions. But our schools fail even in this task’.
-Douglas Wilson in ‘The Case For Classical Christian Education’
62. PuritanD
December 12, 2006
4:06 PM
Tim,
This is a great topic of discussion.
My wife and I were raised in the public school systems (except my 3rd/4th grade). For the most part we were determined to have our own kids go through the public school system as well.
We have had a difficult time in deciding whether to home school or not. I think that every option is viable to Christians. I also believe that each area and criteria used to make such decisions are different.
The school system we are in now is one that may as one commentor mentioned have a worldview that is in opposition to Christianity. If I have to tell my child everyday why such things being taught in school is at best misleading if not wrong, why redo and correct when it may be better to give it to them right the first time. Why have a constant battle between the authority of teachers vs. parents in education.
Would we send our kids to public school in the near future if we move out of the area? Probably! We would love to homeschool for a few years and then send them out to the public school, but we are in a ‘wait and see’ pattern.
I think that the questions present by Chris (22) are somewhat simplictic. I am not deeply concerned about peer influence. I am concerned about the possible battles of worldviews of teachers vs. worldview of parents who both are in positions of authority and have tremendous influences on kids.
Being a youth pastor, I am constantly dealing with and challenging the beliefs that the jr. and sr. high kids bring with them from school. Most kids are from a Christian household. Yet, I spend a great amount of time (willingly) in correcting mistaken beliefs of reincarnation, eveloution, and social/enviromental issues. When pitted against what teachers say verse what the Bible says, generally teachers win the day.
Granted, I do have a few kids that are so well grounded that they do “roll the eyes” to their teachers, but they complain that school is a waste of time because they are not learning anything. I think there are a variety of factors that are involved and each parent needs to take them all into account when making their decisions.
Respectfully,
PuritanD
63. Noel
December 12, 2006
4:11 PM
Wow. Commentpalooza. Your post prompted one of my own. You can read the whole thing here. For the purpose of brevity, I’ll just post an excerpt on your site.
The context is my wife and I homeschool for K and 1st Grade, and then send our kids to public school.
****
Now…why are we home-schooling for the first couple years? Many home-school families are shocked to find out it has almost nothing to do with our faith.
The primary reason we home-school for the first few years? My wife was a public school teacher and she has seen how the first few years can be an academic wasteland. And with her qualifications, she can teach our kids so much more the first couple years. Our hope is that it will give our kids a head start academically. So far, with Emma and Jesse, this has proven to be the case. They are both in public school and are doing exceptionally well academically.
Ethan is halfway through Kindergarten and he is reading and writing already.
The secondary reason we home-school for the first few years? We want to disciple our kids a bit more before exposing them to public school. We feel like 5 years old is a little premature to send them into the world. This is a deliberate choice. What do I mean by exposing them to public school? Well, after Emma’s first day of public school, I asked her how it went.
Her response?
“A boy said I was hot.”
Now that would be reason enough to yank her from public school all together for many people. But it is precisely the reason we have decided to send them into school in third grade. We want our kids to live in the world at the same time they are living in our house. We want them to come home and ask us what swear words mean. We want them to come home and tell us about their experiences in culture, because it will afford us with an opportunity to frame their experiences with a missional world-view.
64. Dallas Pymm
December 12, 2006
4:27 PM
“A boy said I was hot.”
I think it is widely accepted that father of said girl has the right to inflict pain on said boy for said comment. God bless you all who have girls…I would rip my hair out worying about boys looking at them. :o)
65. John R.
December 12, 2006
4:59 PM
Tim,
I appreciate the discussion, and think it’s a worthwhile topic that needs to be discussed calmly, which is difficult for many on both sides of the divide these days.
First, to put my cards on the table, we’ve been homeschooling our children for almost 10 years now. Still, many of your (and the commenters’) criticisms of homeschoolers are on the mark. As a homeschooler, I frequently find myself in opposition to the judgmental, isolated, neo-Amish mentality of too many of our ilk. But it’s also fair to note that while the common sentiment here going in seems to have been, “Thanks for the comments, Tim. Now—duck!!!” all of the comments here seem to be quite civil so far.
Now, for the point I feel needs to be made, which pertains to the reasons we do homeschool our kids. In another post, you recently wrote:
“Statistics show that many Christians, and most likely the vast majority of Christians, have a worldview that is functionally secular. Many people who go to church every Sunday, who read Christian books and who read their Bibles and pray every day, still think like unbelievers. Their worldview—their way of seeing and understanding the world—is no different from before they claimed to be Christians. As interesting as statistics may be, common sense and good reason show the problem to be severe. Jonathan Edwards, looking to the refusal of the people of his day to own up to their guilt, realized that ‘the liberal Christianity of the new republic would be built around such moral principles.’ Modern day evangelicalism is likewise founded on such moral principles.”
Exactly! I couldn’t agree more. But Tim, wouldn’t we be more than a bit naive if we didn’t make any connection between this state of affairs and our public school system? Where do you suppose most Christians got that functionally secular worldview? Have you not provided a strikingly apt description of “non-sectarian” public education through the decades, which has (until recently) taught “moral principles” while excluding theology? And is it possible —since this is a manifest problem, and one that we modern Christians have major blind spots on—that weighing between Christian education and some other kind of education as if both were equally valid options for Christian children could be one very potent manifestation of that “functionally secular worldview?”
Ultimately, we cannot hide our children from sin, as if sin were something “out there.” That’s legalism, and it fails to recognize that kids have no problems sinning in any environment. I completely agree with you and everyone who’s expressed that. The reason we homeschool is because we don’t want our children to grow up with functionally secular worldviews, which is all too often the result of the implicit lesson when, say, God and math are separated, or when God is just glossed onto whatever is already presumed to have been taught incompletely but correctly (i.e. “Okay, Billy, you spent six hours today learning biology, math, and history from an atheistic perspective as if they were each closed systems, without any need for recourse to God in the discussion. But just let me add something—God created all that!”).
But I appreciate your thoughts, and my hope is that tomorrow you will present a positive case for public schooling your children, as opposed to merely the negative case against homeschooling.
66. DLE
December 12, 2006
5:12 PM
Oh, Tim.
I blog on homeschooling issues from time to time. No topic has been more incendiary on my blog. I could write that everyone’s going to hell except blue-eyed Lutheran Swedes and I’d get fewer flaming comments than if I said that perhaps homeschooling isn’t the best choice for every family.
Good luck. I wouldn’t be surprised if your comment section went over two hundred posts at some point. My last post on homeschooling had me deleting angry comments, the first time in five years of blogging I had to resort to that tactic.
If anyone’s interested, most of what I’ve written on the topic can be found through this link:
More on Homeschooling
Hang in there. Once some “homer” homeschooling sects discover your posts, you may be in for a bumpy ride.
Blessings!
67. Noel
December 12, 2006
5:23 PM
Dallas-
I asked my daugher, “who is this boy?” She said, “Jack.”
I said, “I would like to meet Jack.”
The next morning, I escorted my daughter to school and walked her to the door. I gave Jack a firm handshake and introduced myself as Emma’s dad. I wanted him to always remember the strength in my hand. And since he was a seven year old, my hand was actually stronger than his, so that worked out.
:)
68. Tony
December 12, 2006
5:33 PM
Tim:
You seem to say that you could homeschool because your wife and yourself are educated but it is a mistake to think only so called educated people can educate their children. It is only because we have been trained to think that one has to be educated to educate but if you read back through history there are many a man and women of history that learned without being educated by “professionals.” I fear we have taken the bait of the world that one has to be a professional to do certain jobs such as teaching and I would say this is not true.
There also seems to be a tenor that if one holds to home schooling as being the way to train up children they are wrong to do so. I would hope that when someone does anything they find warrant for it in scripture. I would also hope that your decision to not homeschool was based more on God’s word rather than simply “plain reason.”
I appreciate your writing your thoughts but please realize that if others are passionate, from the other side of the argument, they are not weaker if they vocalize their convictions. If you feel you know something is true are you not being diligent to try and persuade others of the truth. We do have to be careful to not simply fall back on the “both sides are right argument” for the sake of peace as that sounds very post modern.
Some General Comments:
It does not seem to be the best policy to simply say that since one turned OK and was public schooled then public school is OK. I was public schooled as a happy pagan and by my parents standards and the worlds I probably turned out OK but if I am honest I have much that I deal with now that I am Christian that God would not be pleased with. So if we are honest with ourselves we have all probably taken away less than pleasing, to God, things from the public school system. The issue I hear is that most people seem to just look for the big ones that deal with sex, drugs such.
We home school and the main goal and purpose our home schooling to raise our children to be Godly men and women. Can one do this in the public school system, I guess so. But how much time will it take to deprogram them each day and if most parents are honest it will not be done as it should. It is hard enough dealing with what they hear and experience with friends on the street how much harder would it be if they spent 8 hours a day in the same environment. What I hear often from even Christian parents seems to reveal that they have bought into the idea that education is the answer to most everything. This seems to be true of parents of both home schooled, Christian schooled and public schooled children. Should not the goal of all our instruction for our children to be to raise them up in the Lord? It is not the duty of the state, educational professionals or even ministry professionals but the duty of parents.
While I personally think there is warrant to think that home schooling is the most pleasing, to God, way of raising children based on scripture I do think that individuals need to see this for themselves or they will simply make home schooling legalism.
I feel like the minority in this stream of comments but that is OK. I did not always have this conviction even when we started home schooling and it has only been through many struggles and much prayer and scripture that I hold the convictions I now hold. So I do not expect people to simply jump on the wagon and agree but do ask that people seek all of scripture of the answers and not simply rely on reason and experience.
Again thanks Tim for taking the plunge into this topic and I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on this, even if I may disagree.
69. Lin
December 12, 2006
6:16 PM
Quote: I feel that younger children, especially, would have a very hard time with such a dichotomy between what their parents are telling them is “truth” and what their teachers are telling them what is “truth.” >>
Very true. My brother yanked his kids out of a very nice public school after the 10 year old came home extolling the virtues of the Sandinistas. The child was so enamoured with this particular teacher, she had a hard time understanding her father’s objections.
With that said, one must look at their school system. Here in my city it is a very large system and they have floated every educational theory known to man including the current ‘outcome based education’ which is totally self esteen and ‘feeling’ oriented. 12 years of that indoctrination would be hard to overcome.
There is also the issue of busing where many kids cannot attend their local school. You can see kids waiting for the bus at 6 am because they are on the it for 80 minutes each way.
For these reasons and more, I have opted for a small Christian school which is a lot like a school one would encounter in Mayberry.
I am not blind to what goes on in Christian schools but the difference is with how it is dealt.
70. Steve
December 12, 2006
6:28 PM
WOW! What a response.
As a parent just now in the throes of making the decision for home schooling, or not, I find that, like Tim, the financial aspect has determined some of our choices, while time and opportunity have made others.
As it turns out, we made the decision to send our first one to public schools, after much research on the various schools in our area, we chose the best one possible. In making this decision we knew that our responsibilities in making sure her education at home and about God would take on a more difficult role because we would be forced to counteract much of what she may be taught in certian areas. I’ll be curious to read the follow up to this one.
By the way…as someone asked in an earlier post…Tim, shouldn’t you be working on your book?
71. Steve Camp
December 12, 2006
7:01 PM
Todd H.
You said, “I found the link in post #32 to Dr. Wayne Grudem’s paper, “Biblical Reasons for Sending Children to a Christian School.” very convincing and biblically based. I would like to see someone dispute his paper.
This is relatively simple: he proof-texted almost every passage he quoted; he confused the nomenclature and meaning between “education with educational”; and he took passages pertaining to our walk with the Lord principally, then applied it generally to children, AND made it a mandate for academic training. The discipleship of our children in the “nurture and admonition of the Lord” is not to be equated as a one to one corollary as the educational environment that focuses on reading, writing and arithmetic.
I found his paper weak and unconvincing.
Hope that helps…
Grace and peace,
Steve
72. deanna
December 12, 2006
7:16 PM
Just a clarification for Daniel who says, “It is much easier for me to imagine that most people are simply not that mature, and that the decision to use public schools happens either by default, or because the parents believes that God won’t provide for them a standard of living that suits them unless both parents have a job.
Boy, when you are willing to be poor, only then can you be truly rich.”
Our decision to send our children to public school was not based on any standard of living issues. Not sending them to a Christian school, surely! But I have stayed home with my children since the first was born and I have not gone back to work full time (I tutor 3 days a week) in order that I can be involved at their school, an active participant in their public schooling.
I take the education of and influence on my children very seriously, as do a majority of parents in the world. I feel blessed to have my children in a school with many believing teachers and have met wonderful Christian families whose children also attend this same public school. Despite her lack of homeschooling, my oldest daughter is a year ahead academically in math and reading and I owe this in part to a professional, dedicated staff of educators.
Could I be a better teacher to my children than what they are receiving in public schools? I just think there is no comparison! Each has it’s advantages AND disadvantages. To suggest that we placed our children in a school by default or based on a standard of living - well, that would be presumptuous. God has provided for us in ways we never would have dreamed, and we will continue to go to Him first in making decisions concerned the children He has given to us.
While this topic is definitely a hot one, I think in the church it does more harm than good. It’s devisive and quickly turns into bitterness. It would behoove us all to support each other in the choices each of us make based on the convictions God has placed on our hearts.
73. nathan
December 12, 2006
7:18 PM
Good topic. An elder in our church (Covenant Presbyterian - Wilmington, OH), Brad Heath, wrote a wonderful book, “Millstones & Stumbling Blocks: Understanding Education in Post-Christian America.” I woud suggest any parents who are thinking and praying about how to educate their children to read this book.
You can buy it here:
Brad Heath, Millstones and Stumbling Blocks
Also, you can listen to a great interview with Brad on this subject here:
Brad Heath Interview
74. Charley
December 12, 2006
8:24 PM
Tony in post #69 said:
“What I hear often from even Christian parents seems to reveal that they have bought into the idea that education is the answer to most everything. This seems to be true of parents of both home schooled, Christian schooled and public schooled children.”
Bravo!
It does seem that “education” is the unmentionable idol in almost every Christian’s life. Got a problem? More education is the answer! What defines successful parenting? Having a child do well in school and then get into a good college.
This is woefully inadequate.
What does God desire…the ability to do Calculus or to diagram Latin sentences?
He desires that we gain HIS wisdom, that we fear Him, that we grow more and more like His Son, that we impact our world as mature believers.
Does “education” as most of us experienced it and as most of us give our children do any of that? I hardly think so. It gives us a lot of “smart” people, but few, if any, WISE people. And in this day and age, we desperately need wise people!
Thus, I reject the even the name “home schooling” because it represents just bringing school home. The priority is getting through a curriculum, making sure the college prep is done, etc. The priority isn’t Godliness and growing in the wisdom and nurturing of the Lord.
I prefer “Home Discipling.” (Thus the name of my blog.)
In “Home Discipling” the priority is discipling the children into young adults who walk in the fear and admonition of the Lord, who love their Lord with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, and who take the Gospel to their circle of influence in love and service. Secondary is all the traditional “knowledge.” It will still come, but it doesn’t take priority over discipling the child.
And I will guarantee a public school won’t do the above, and most Christian schools would be hard-pressed as well.
I strongly believe instead of the “kidults” the Harris brothers describe on their Rebelution blog, Home Discipling will produce a young person in whom God would be pleased.
Is this a minority view? You bet.
Is this a “radical” view? I’m sure Mr. Wilson would think so.
Is this a bad way to raise a child? I think not.
Fire away!
75. Dana
December 12, 2006
8:58 PM
Interesting. I am a Christian mother of three (expecting fourth) who homeschools her children and believes whole-heartedly that it is the best option. Otherwise I wouldn’t do it : ) I don’t think that young children are spiritually mature enough to handle the pressures of school (which is backed up by the fact that approximately 80% of children of Christian parents who are sent to public school leave the faith. I have a feeling that those other 20% are the more involved parents…the ones that check over homework, discuss incidents that happen in school and provide real guidance to their children, unlike many who figure that since they are Christians and they go to church their children will just “catch” Christianity, or something.)
That said, I believe that fundamentally, the educational course of the child is the right and the responsibility of the parent. I don’t see it useful to “condemn” anyone for those choices.
76. Elizabeth
December 12, 2006
9:06 PM
Hi Dana,
As a teacher I’m sure you know you must cite your sources. :) Where did you read/ hear “the fact that approximately 80% of children of Christian parents who are sent to public school leave the faith.”?
Thanks!
Elizabeth
77. Carla Rolfe
December 12, 2006
9:17 PM
Hi Tim,
on the off chance you get this far in the comments…
You know, it is amazing to me how you so often take on the most nuetral topics that generate so few replies. :)
I’m not going to spend an hour compising a reply (athough I could, lol) but rather just say thank you for posting this, and opening up the discussion once again for those who might still be undecided on educational choices for thier kids.
As you know, we homeschool, and have for the last 7 years. I wont list all the reasons we do it because it really is a subjective issue, as has been pointed out previously in the comments.
Someone else also commented about parents going on the defensive - and I would have to agree that both HS’ers do it, but so do PS parents. Both likely do it for the same reasons, and that being criticized for their choices as if they don’t have enough good sense to make the best choices for their kids.
I’ve been on both sides of this at the same time. For a few years, our oldest girls were in public school while we were homeschooling our youngest of school age. Imagine the hoo-haa that results from both sides over that, eh?
As well, one of my dearest friends and fellow blogger here in the Christian blogging community also homeschools, but has her two oldest in public school. Not only is it not an easy decision to make, but the folks who should be around you supporting your decisions don’t often do that, but blow you out of the water for crossing the educational taboo line (in their eyes).
I look forward to your second part of this, I suspect it will only serve to benefit this discussion even more.
Even though you’re wrong. LOL Just kidding, but I had to say it.
Carla - HS’ing mom of 7 beautiful kids
78. Jacob
December 12, 2006
9:24 PM
While I was homeschooled K-12, graduated and started college a year early, my mother, as far back as I can remember, has always insisted that homeschooling was not for everyone. It’s a lot of hard work and requires a lot of discipline in certain areas that some parents don’t have. It’s also not for every child. No two children are alike, so why would we think we can educate them the same way?
As I said, I was home schooled and I’m finishing up my last year of college. In the summer, I work for a Christian leadership camp (www.worldview.org), and work with Christian youth 13-18 who come from all sorts of educational, church, and family backgrounds. The students that were the best prepared for the challenges of an academic camp like our’s weren’t home schooled and weren’t public schooled. They were usually students who were being taught from a classical-model curriculum. From an academic standpoint, I think the virtues of this form of education are very strong, and so if I’m ever blessed with a wife and children, it is one option I will be considering strongly, but there are too many factors involved to make a clear demarcation as to what the Christian parent ought to do. What I DO know is that each parent needs to consider what’s availible. As many have attested, not all public schools are horrible, and many Christian schools aren’t very christian. The question isn’t “public or private,” “traditional or classical” “classroom or home” but “what is best for my child?” taking into account academic, spiritual and social needs.
Parents are responsible to God for the children that He gives them. For my parents, that responsibility took the form of home schooling my sister and I, for other parents, this looks very different.
Again, no two children are the same, so why do we think we can educate them like they are (home or private).
79. Charley
December 12, 2006
9:25 PM
Elizabeth…
Dr. Voddie Baucham cites two different studies for the Southern Baptist Convention that show between 75% and 88% (depending on the study) of SBC young people leave the faith during their young-adult years, never to return.
Links to Dr. Baucham’s keynote address to the Texas Southern Baptist Evangelism Conference can be found here: http://homedisciplingdad.blogspot.com/2006/06/closing-generational-gap.html
Charley
80. Charley
December 12, 2006
9:31 PM
Jacob, in post 79 says,
“The question isn’t “public or private,” “traditional or classical” “classroom or home” but “what is best for my child?” taking into account academic, spiritual and social needs.”
Sorry…but “What is best for my child” isn’t the question.
The question is, “As I diligently study the Scripture, what does God reveal to me as to how I am to raise my child? What is the goal of my parenting at the other end of childhood? Does God give me a prescription for how to get there?”
Then do it!
Charley
81. Charley
December 12, 2006
9:35 PM
Oh…I forgot to mention…If I humbly and diligently approach the Throne of God through the Scripture with the questions of my answer to Jacob, then the answer to “What is best for my child?” is a byproduct of the answers I get.
Charley
82. Elizabeth
December 12, 2006
9:56 PM
Thanks Charley but Dana’s post says:
“80% of children of Christian parents who are sent to public school leave the faith.”
There is no mention of the “public school” in the source you provided.
This was written on the blog I was linked to, “Statistically, Americans (and that includes evangelical Christians) are having fewer children than are required for replacing the population…only 1.9. That means that it will take two evangelical families to produce a single Christian in the next generation.”
I disagree with the conclusion given to this statistic: “That means that it will take two evangelical families to produce a single Christian in the next generation.”
Christians and other people of faith have more children than secular atheists. See link below and if you subscribe to Foreign Policy see the
“The Return of Patriarchy” by Phillip Longman - March/April 2006 issue.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/09/17/INGEJL45D11.DTL
83. Charley
December 12, 2006
10:33 PM
Elizabeth,
True…the stats didn’t relate to the method of education. I didn’t notice that part of the comment in Dana’s post. Nevertheless, the stats still are horrifying.
Christians do tend to have more children. But again, according to Dr. Baucham, those in the SBC (not my denomination, by the way) for the most part average two children per family…only slightly higher than the U.S. as a whole. (From my own observations, it appears the more fundamental the individual church, the larger the families are who attend…for what it’s worth.)
So his logic is as follows: If 75% (the conservative stat) of our children will walk away from the faith as young adults and we average only two children per family, then it will take two families to bring a single Christian into the next generation. (Oh…and he blows away the idea that we will fix the problem with evangelism. Only one in 42 SBC members actively evangelizes!)
So I look at what he says and conclude that if it’s a problem in a denomination like the SBC, then the rest of us should sit up and take notice.
So what does this have to do with Tim’s original post? If we are looking at 75% of our children walking away from the faith as young adults…which means an eternity in the torment of hell…then we need to take a good, hard look at what we are doing to raise them in the fear and admonition of the Lord (yes, I’m completely in the Reformed camp and understand the sovereignty of God in salvation, so don’t go there). We are charged with their discipleship. That’s more important than whatever secular knowledge gets poured into their heads.
So here’s the challenge: How are you going to do it? That’s the $60,000 question. Your educational choices for your children are a huge part of that discipleship. Choose wisely.
84. Elizabeth
December 12, 2006
10:52 PM
Thanks Charley for your reply, my thoughts on schooling are in posting #53
And as for: “We are charged with their discipleship. That’s more important than whatever secular knowledge gets poured into their heads.”
Thankfully we are blessed to have both the secular knowledge of history, science, art etc., which God has endowed men to create for study and discipleship as they aren’t mutually exclusive.
85. Afrikaner
December 12, 2006
11:08 PM
We have four children and so far we have experienced educating them in a variety of permutations and combinations (semi-rural Australia) - public, christian parent controlled school, home school and private college. For us as parents we have seen good and bad in all systems. We have also seen good homeschooling and bad homeschooling - our church has a large number of home school families.
God acts through His common grace in all mankind, so we have seen some exceptional teaching and learning in a non Christian context. We have seen gifted and enthusiastic teachers in the both the public and private (non chr’n) college, with so much love for their subject area and for children/students, that it would put Christians to shame. We have seen excellent art, drama, science, sportsmanship come from our non Christian schools. Our children have experienced so much other person centredness and true community in their journeys through the non Christian school. On the other hand we have struggled in some subject areas as home schoolers; seen the worst forms of legalism in the Christian school, as well as some really poor art, music and drama. (Better a good non Christian college, than a bad Christian school.)
Unfortunately like Tim we have experienced the most Pharisaical self righteousness from home school families, to the point of seeing a church divide.
Again - to repeat myself - God’s grace (both special saving and common to all mankind) is sufficient for all of life.
86. bob
December 12, 2006
11:13 PM
I’m interested in seeing how your public school helps train your child about the beauty of God in math, literature, science and art? Sure you can state the negative of homeschooling but how does public schooling promote Jesus as the creator of math, story, science and art? It cannot. In fact, evidence shows it does just the opposite.
The PEERS test developed by the Nehemiah Institute (PEERS stands for Politics, Education, Economics, Religion, Social Issues) documents how a secularist worldview comes to dominate teenagers’ thinking and utterly overwhelms their one-day exposure to Christian education (often limited to Sunday school).
http://www.nehemiahinstitute.com
Every wonder if the humanistic/consumerist public school system in America could be a major reason why American christianity is so weak and passionless? The PEERS 13 year study reveals dreadful results indeed.
87. Barry
December 12, 2006
11:13 PM
Tim,
Good post, but unless I missed something, I still do not understant WHY you have chosen to send your kids to public schools. Good info, and you’re putting your finger on a lot, but short of saying that’s its your choice and a matter of ideology, I didn’t catch the WHY behind the WHAT, and that’s what I was looking for. Why public schools?
Thanks for the great blog.
PS - I don’t have a dog in this fight, yet still would like to know your reasons. We have chosen not to homeschool, but the verdict is out on public vs. private. Perhaps your thoughts on why you have chosen what you have will help us.
88. Afrikaner
December 12, 2006
11:18 PM
Tim
How about a critique on home churching!
89. Afrikaner
December 12, 2006
11:53 PM
“I’m interested in seeing how your public school helps train your child about the beauty of God in math, literature, science and art?”
No they cannot do that. But they can teach maths, chemistry or physics, as pure subject areas with clarity and enthusiasm because there is a creator God behind every subject and the laws etc of maths and physics are of themselves beautiful and designer-built. No a non christian cannot articulate that…. A non christian can teach elements of art that are beautiful (because again God creates in His tapestry of art and music beauty), that have meaning …. A subject area where a Christian parent needs to watch is literature or creationism/evolution. These things can be talked through and critiqued with a Biblical world view through home, as each parent oversees his/her children. I have seen dramas produced by non Christians which quite truelly represent biblical principles, even though the teacher themselves do not know Christ as their Saviour. This is common grace at work….
I have yet to meet a Christian school teacher who really does more than stick on a few verses at the beginning of his/her subject area. I have seen Christian teachers who berate their charges, who have lack passion or knowledge of their subject and who put undue pressure on children to be conformed to Christianity when clearly the children need know the power of the Spirit in conversion.
90. Lance Roberts
December 13, 2006
12:01 AM
Sending your children to public school is like sacrificing them to Molech. As other commenters have stated, it isn’t a choice of schooling with or without God, it’s what God your children will be submitted to. You’re sacrificing your children on the altar of secular humanism.
Why would you think Satan is a better educator than God?
91. Afrikaner
December 13, 2006
12:48 AM
I’m sorry Lance - your emotive statements just don’t wash with me.
My wife and myself and many of our strong christian friends all have experienced education through various non christian institutions and have by God’s grace come through it. I am now 50yo and can still remember applying a biblical worldview to all my subject areas and responding to all sorts of exams and assignments with a reason for the hope that lies within. My children are well equipped in the word of God and with faith can and do fight off the philosophies of this world very adequately.
92. Ron
December 13, 2006
12:49 AM
This was/is not a light decision for our family. We homeschool our children for a variety of reasons. Some reasons are spiritual, some are educationally based and some are practical, ie. we can’t afford the $$$ for private school.
I don’t bother defending our choice. I trust other believers are seeking God and praying for wisdom in the training of their children. I don’t believe that there is one right choice, one Biblical choice, to be made on this issue. I’m convinced God directs each family individually - this is not a one size fits all issue. I also definitely do not view this as a weaker/stronger brother issue. There are weaker brothers on each side of this issue - and vice versa.
Some random thoughts:
As a former youth pastor I have seen severe rebellion in public school students, homeschooled students, and private christian school students. I have also seen a quiet calm inner rebellion that surfaces the moment a child leaves the house for college. Both are spiritually deadly. Each each case, their individual schooling method did not create the rebellion - sin did.
I went to “Christian” school for grades 1-12. I now appreciate the overview of scripture I received. However it was my local church, my parents, and other believers that shaped my theology more than my Bible classes.
I am not very comfortable at a homeschool convention. Usually I am the conservative in the crowd. Hanging around a convention on the weekend, I feel like the radical liberal. The stereotypes are real, and I struggle with that, but it doesn’t mean that we are not called to school our kids at home.
For us, homeschooling was/is the best option in a community where the public schools are incredibly overcrowded and poorly, poorly taught. We tried the local public school and felt our child was receiving a very sub-standard education. We initially brought our children home so that they could receive a better education. Along the way we have seen incredible benefits and joys we could have never imagined. We are thankful for the road God called us to. For those of our friends in this community who avail themselves to public and/or private education, we are thankful for the Godly decisions they are making.
93. Ethan
December 13, 2006
12:54 AM
What a firestorm of comments!
While I “sort of” agree with you in principle I wonder at what point would it “clearly” be wrong to send your children to the state for education? What if the law required state schooling? What if the school year was year round? What if the state took your kids on Monday and dropped them off on Friday?
The point here is at some point most of us would start to find ourselves in agreement on this issue. At what point would we be able to make a “Biblical” case against state schooling? Would we be using the same verses that are used today?
From a historical perspective I tend to believe (my conviction) we are a lot farther towards my somewhat extreme example that we realize.
94. Ethan
December 13, 2006
1:15 AM
One more comment for anyone that makes it this far.
This article by Nancy Wilson goes well with the article by Doug that Tim pointed to.
http://opc.org/nh.html?article_id=422
95. Cathy
December 13, 2006
2:15 AM
I’ve been an educator in the public schools for 30 years now. In response the the oft-repeated comment along the lines of “I went to public school, and I turned out to be a fine Christian,” I would say that that thinking is ignoring the undeniable fact of the very rapid moral decline in the public schools. Things have seriously changed for the worse even in just the last 5 years. The curriculum is often based on godless principles. Textbooks either ignore Christianity or demean it. The teachers and administrators live open lifestyles of sin. They brazenly model drunkenness, sexual immorality of all types, very immodest clothing, and on and on. Teachers’ and administrators’ comments are often vulgar in content and style. Teachers base their classroom management systems on godless principles. All these and many more reasons are driving schools to be dark halls of moral debauchery. And I won’t even go into the educational demise and slight of hand because that shouldn’t be the primary concern for Christian parents anyway. In summary to this point I would say that there is just way too much pressure of cultural wickedness to send a child to public school 7/5. In terms of the repeated argument that Christian children can be salt and light in public schools, I would say that children are not called by God to be full-time missionaries to such a dark and powerful place. They are just children and need to be discipled and nurtured in the faith so that as they approach adulthood they can be effective witnesses in dark places. I’m so thankful to have a job in the public schools and to influence children as I can for the gospel, but I would never recommend that parents send their children to public school in this day and age.
96. SueS
December 13, 2006
7:20 AM
The comment is often made that, “most of the teachers in my child’s school are Cristians”. It is wonderful that these people have chosen to invest themselves in a very needy mission field but the fact remains that public schools are run by a government that is more and more antagonistic to the Christian faith, not to mention that it provides an “education” that is geared to passing achievement tests.
Our dd attended a Christian school through 5th grade and, although it was a pretty decent school, it still had problems that promped us to withdraw her and begin homeschooling. She was homeschooled through 12th grade and even completed one year of college at home through Whitefield College. We were definitely NOT “homers” but ended up participating in things that would have been impossible to do if we had stayed in the Christian school. Not only did our daughter receive an excellent education at home, but the experience made us a much closer family. It molded her into the excellent young wife and mother she is today.
Educational choice is something that every family must decide for itself and homeschooling is NOT for everybody. But, I will be forever grateful that the Lord led us on that particular path.
97. John
December 13, 2006
8:45 AM
Was raised in a “Christian ” home. Went to public school. Played strip poker 5th grade. Bought 1st pack of smokes at vending machine at doughnut shop next to junior high. Began smoking pot 7th grade. Sexually active starting in 9th grade…So, let me guess, I homeschool my 3 children because I’m ????? The naive attitude “Christians ” have in regards to this never ceases to amaze. Oops, did I get too real????
98. Carla Rolfe
December 13, 2006
9:23 AM
Cathy,
in response to your comment “In terms of the repeated argument that Christian children can be salt and light in public schools…”
May I just say THANK YOU for the voice of logic & reality here. Coming from someone in the public school system, I hope more people really listen to what you’ve posted.
I’ve been saying this for years, and it seems to go right over the heads of the people I say it to. If you’re going to make the choice to have your kids educated in the public schools, please don’t make the mistake of assuming your kids are going to be little John the Baptists at that school. They are kids, not little spiritual dynamos that are going to convert the school for Christ. Putting that kind of unrealistic expectation on them is horribly unfair. IF they do have some kind of influence for His sake, then praise God for that, but assuming they WILL have that impact, is setting them up in ways they may very likely not be able to measure up.
I mean come on, kids can’t even make their beds and take out the trash in a 100% responsible way, throughout the week, and yet we expect them to be more spiritually mature than most adults and be salt and light in a place where kids beat you up just because you didn’t play with them at recess? Lets be honest and realistic about what kids are really like.
SDG…
99. PJ
December 13, 2006
9:43 AM
I teach 2nd grade in a public school in the suburbs of Portland, Oregon. In my school the principal has a copy of the Divinci Code on his shelf. Our 5 grade teacher is a lesbian who just adopted a child. Our ESL teacher has a tongue ring that gets in the way when she talks.
In my class I have two muslims, 1 Jehova witness, 1 mormon and a variety of other religions represented. My goal is to reach people for Christ. But putting my child in that place would be unthinkable.
The picuture books that are reccommended reading for the kids are filled with Panthiesim, Philisophical Naturalism and Pluralism. The curriculum is continually pointing in this direction even at 2nd grade. I don’t know what child could handle this kind of assault.
Would you send your child to a Mormon school?
No!
Why?
Because it teaches a false religion.
???
Our church started a Christian school/homeschool combination. Classical Christian education on M-W-F and homeschool on Tue.-Thur.
PJ
100. Melissa
December 13, 2006
9:48 AM
I’m looking forward to reading the rest of this!
I got to experience public, private, and homeschooling as a kid, and there are pro’s & con’s to each one. My main thing with public schooling is the quality of instruction, but this probably differs from state to state. Oddly enough, my public school teachers were more caring than my private school one, but I may have gotten a bad egg. Many homeschoolers I’ve come across with are quite comparable to ‘cage-stage’ Calvinists, if you know what I mean.
As it stands now, I’m hoping to homeschool my future kids for the first few years and then make a decision as to “where” to put them.
101. Brian at voiceofthesheep
December 13, 2006
10:20 AM
Carla,
Excellent comments.
Melissa said: Many homeschoolers I’ve come across with are quite comparable to ‘cage-stage’ Calvinists, if you know what I mean.
No, I don’t know what you mean. I am a homeschooler AND a Calvinist…but what is a “cage-stage” Calvinist?
102. Jeff
December 13, 2006
10:31 AM
This was a fantastic, well-written synopsis that I would accuse you of mining from my brain if I was not confident that you don’t possess ESP. Gracious to all and clear in communicating intentional strategy. Thanks, Tim. I’ll be linking this at my blog.
103. Melissa
December 13, 2006
10:42 AM
Brian,
This little post tells about cage-stage pretty well - http://wooq.blogspot.com/2006/06/cage-stage-calvinist.html
I’m also a Calvinist, but didn’t go through “cage-stage”. I have known people who did, and they remind me a lot some homeschoolers.
(I’m not anti-homeschool at all, actually quite pro, so don’t mistake this as a mean comment. -_- )
104. Ochuk
December 13, 2006
10:48 AM
Sending your children to public school is like sacrificing them to Molech.
No it isn’t. Not even close. I went to public school as a Christian kid and I am still alive.
105. KB
December 13, 2006
10:53 AM
Very good and relevant post, Tim.
I’ve also had the pleasure of experiencing all three forms of schooling. I went to Christian school through fourth grade, then was homeschooled until ninth grade, at which time I entered the public school arena.
There were difficulties in all three formats, and very positive things as well. I do have to say, though, while the public school I attended wasn’t the worst possible, after Christian school and homeschool, it was a horrible shock.
Both of my parents were working by then, and my siblings and I were effectively cut loose to deal with hard topics such as profanity, worldly philosophies, sex, drugs, and other such things without much guidance.
I would say that parents who don’t have the time or inclination to keep up with what’s confronting their kids, public school or not, have no business fighting over whether or not Christian school or public school is better.
With regards to homeschool, I excelled in that environment, but my siblings did not. As has been stated before, much should depend on the needs of the individual child.
106. Garret
December 13, 2006
10:58 AM
As someone who has experienced both realms - public school, homeschooling and back to public school, I think I may add a little to this discussion.
I would say that our reason for homeschooling was idealistic as you propose - no argument there. It was almost a separatist attitude which, at the time, seemed biblical. This is not to intimate that all homeschoolers are separatist.
We homeschooled our 10 year-old in 3rd and 4th grade. This year, we decided to go back to public school by mere virtue of the fact that it would relieve my wife of a lot of stress. You see, we have 3 kids now and are waiting on a fourth via Chinese adoption (our first adoption). We are fortunate to live in a solid school district.
As the year has progressed and we have learned more about and grown in the gospel, we feel it is actually a better thing. It may be true that our children will be exposed to the ugliness of the world more quickly than if we homeschooled them. But we also realized that our children will learn more quickly their need of Christ. As they are confronted with tough choices and are likely to fall to temptation more frequently, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, they will see their need for a Savior much more vividly than if we keep them sheltered at home. They will have greater opportunity to experience the love and forgiveness of Christ - hopefully they will also experience the love and forgiveness of their sometimes overly tough dad - that’s the idea anyway.
This may sound twisted to some people. But we are convinced that no person can truly understand his or her need of a Savior until that person can truly understand the wickedness and evil bent of his or her own heart. The spoken gospel is simply not enough. You can preach and preach until your blue in the face, but if a child doesn’t experience the consequences of his or her own gravitation toward evil, then they will not begin to truly appreciate their need of a Savior or the love Christ has for them despite their wicked tendancies. “…for he who was forgiven much loved much.”
This does not mean that I want my children to dive into wickedness. It only means that I cannot and should not attempt to shelter them to the point that they grow up and move out and are in for a rude awakening when they see what the real world is all about. Furthermore, they will never learn about grace as it pertains to their own willingness to overlook someone elses sin in favor of forgiveness and learn how to apply the gospel to real world situations.
In short, they need to be IN the world in order to learn how not to be OF the world. Their is a fine, albeit hard to maintain, balance between legalism/pharisaism and license/antinomianism. My prayer is that we never stray too far either way. And with the help of the Holy Spirit, perhaps we will not.
I echo what you say, Tim, with respect to not despising those who do wish to homeschool. I am for liberty on both sides of this issue.
107. Tony
December 13, 2006
11:20 AM
Tim:
You said:
“That statement makes me almost sick. I can’t believe any Christian could deny the power of the Holy Spirit to work through children. Unbelievable.”
Does that statement really make you sick? Are you seeing the Holy Spirit as some sort of magic potion? Even adults are swayed by the world so I think the comment on children is not denying the work of the Holy Spirit but sees that the Holy Spirit does not, for whatever reason God has, guarantee avoiding the pitfalls of the world. If it is sanctification, the realized progressive part of it, that allows us to combat the worlds influences then children would be more susceptible.
Your comment seemed a little harsh for someone who seemed in your writing to try not to offend. So it would seem you have strong feelings regarding your opinion on schooling so is it wrong for others to have equally strong feelings. How you would feel if someone said they felt “almost sick” due to your public schooling of your children? This is not my opinion, even though I do feel that public schooling of children is not he best stewardship of them, but it does show that if one side can have strong opinions on a subject so can the other side.
I am going out of town but will read your further installments on the trip.
108. Brandon Bowers
December 13, 2006
12:27 PM
The point that I have never seen in any blog postings of home schooling is that they do not look at the aspect of both public/private and home school. The issue I strongly believe with homeschooling is not just the education aspect, but that parent(s) involvement. It does not cost that much extra for parents to get involved with their children. Parents does not have to be brain surgeons to be a major part of their children’s lives.
There is no true one way to do anything that is a perfect system. I think that point that so many go for home school is that parents wants to best for children. School cannot by law bring out the religious aspect of life, nor should they should. The big reason for home school and not for home school is that children should learn more then just the academics of life. There are limitations to both home school and public/private schooling.
I strongly believe that when these two aspects work together can children learn all they can in life. If you do not believe me, try it out and see for yourself.
109. Scott McClare
December 13, 2006
2:36 PM
Lance said:
Why would you think Satan is a better educator than God?
At my public high school, many of my teachers, including some of the most influential ones, were Christians - including the principal. Some were even elders at my church.
I have a hard time believing “Satan” was educating me when the same men who taught music, science, math, and history to me on weekdays, shared the communion cup with me on Sundays.
110. Jessica Serrato
December 13, 2006
2:58 PM
I liked the article and i agree with you i think children have an opportunity to have a better learning experience i a public school.
111. bethany
December 13, 2006
5:36 PM
Thank you Tim~
I attended public school all my life, but thankful that God’s grace reaches sinful hearts… homeschool, public, private, whatever.
112. Michael Rew
December 13, 2006
7:53 PM
You wrote:
“Homeschooling parents are easily offended.”
Publicly schooled students are easily offensive. I plan to homeschool my children, not out of any overriding theology or philosophy, but because I had such terrible experiences as a public school student. I do not want my children harassed, beaten, ridiculed, ignored by their peers, and when they finally have the gumption to fight back or stand out, smacked down by school administrators who let bullies and the popular get away with murder while the the murdered are punished for getting blood on the carpets.
That said, I comment further on the young straying from the faith. In my experience, there seems to be no reliable strategy to keep the young from leaving the Lord. I have seen building-churched youth and home-churched youth leave. I have seen publicly schooled, privately schooled, and homeschooled youth leave. In fact, I have not yet met one…not ONE…family adhering to some strict guideline of the faith whose family before them adhered to the same guideline. Every family I meet, on whatever course they want to take as, say, a conversative Christian family, is starting out from the beginning. And sad to say, from what I see, the children of these families will not adhere to that guideline once out of the house of those families.
113. Beth Brown
December 13, 2006
8:03 PM
Hi Tim-
I think the reason homeschoolers can become so adamant about their decision is because if we didn’t feel it was the a decision of obedience to God, we wouldn’t do it! I have homeschooled for 3 years now and I constantly wrestle with the temptation to dump my kids at the local school. A trip to Target at 1:00 in the afternoon with my kids in tow, scurrying past the non-homeschooling moms (looking well composed, sipping their Starbucks while they ponder what greeting card to purchase because they’ve got hours of time for themselves each day) is a difficult moment for me. Choosing to homeschool your children is an enormous sacrifice, particularly for women. It’s different for you — you have somehow rationalized in your mind that public school is “safe-enough” or good enough, so you’re okay with that. Homeschoolers do not share that view. Most of us see no other option. I look at my children like fine, delicate china that belonged to my grandmother. They are a precious gift from God. Can I put that china in the dishwasher? Some say yes, it’ll come out okay. Will the gold finish on the edges chip off? I’m not sure. Am I willing to take that chance? No. Am I willing to take the chance that maybe my kids will turn out okay if I send them to public school? No. And I think God will bless that decision.
114. pilgrim
December 13, 2006
9:59 PM
John said-“Was raised in a “Christian ” home. Went to public school. Played strip poker 5th grade. Bought 1st pack of smokes at vending machine at doughnut shop next to junior high. Began smoking pot 7th grade. Sexually active starting in 9th grade…So, let me guess, I homeschool my 3 children because I’m ????? The naive attitude “Christians ” have in regards to this never ceases to amaze. Oops, did I get too real????”
So those things can’t or won’t happen if your kids are home schooled or in a Christian school?
I went to public schools and didn’t do those things.
The trouble I got into was actually more a result of people I hung out with outside of school and my own poor judgment—of course I wasn’t a Christian either.
Anyway—there is a huge disparity between public schools from place to place—so in some places I wouldn’t recommend public school, in others I would.
As a parent fulfill your responsibility to your children as you see fit, but to elevate that to what all Christians must do is not biblical, nor is it trusting in God.
115. Dana
December 13, 2006
11:54 PM
Sorry…I’m used to that particular statistic being fairly well-known in the circles I normally hang out with. Here is where it is from:
http://consideringhomeschooling.org/publicschools.html
For more information, there is a very informative article posted on Crosswalk (OK, I wrote it.) But it really does have a lot of reasons supporting homeschooling. It is in three parts, but the last part deals more with the spiritual aspects:
part I
part II
part III
As I point out, homeschooling is not a panacea. I do believe that parents can delegate the education of their children to others, but the responsibility is still theirs.
116. Rebecca
December 14, 2006
11:32 AM
Yes, there are some homeschoolers who are easily offended. The same goes for public schoolers. In fact, I’ve noticed an extreme defensiveness among many of the parents I’ve met over the years. If I had a nickle for every conversation that I’ve had along these lines…
Other parent: Oh, your child must go to XYZ School.
Me: No, actually he doesn’t.
Other parent: You mean he doesn’t go to public school?
Me: No, we’ve opted out of the public school system.
Other parent: Well, I think that’s wrong. We’ve opted in and I’ll tell you why! (Lists a dozen reasons why any sane Christian who loves God should embrace public school education as the only choice.) Obviously you don’t care about the lost. You see, we believe…(lengthy statement of faith that seems to compel public school attendance). Besides, we’re proud to be Americans…(lengthy speech about how it is our patriotic duty to support the public school with far more than just our tax dollars). We want out children to grow up as strong, well-adjust Christians who actually have a decent education. So you think kids are too good for public school, huh?
Now, maybe these public school advocates just had a bad experience with a homeschooler or private schooler who gave them the counterpart sort of diatribe, but I hardly think that meekly admitting that our children don’t go to public school warrants my having to endure such defensive speeches. And I didn’t even mention the ridiciulous comments and accusations some public schoolers love to lob in the direction of those who don’t get on board the bandwagon.
I’m glad for all those whose children are enjoying wonderful, marvelous experiences in public schools. I am also glad for those who can “count it all joy” when experiences are not so wonderful. I had a hard time doing so as a child. I had a difficult time dealing with the bullying. I’m sure times are much more enlightened and sensitive now, but I don’t relish the memories of being told by teachers that I shouldn’t be a baby when boys would punch me repeatedly and knock me to the dirt on the playground —- that I should be happy because this was supposedly proof that these boys “liked” me! In junior high and high school, I didn’t like being accosted by gang members, being threatened, having to endure the constant sexual harrassment, or being taunted for anything that I did that wasn’t “cool”. (I wasn’t one of the cool kids, so there was a lot of taunting.)
My parents sacrificed and sent me to a Christian school for my senior year in high school. It was like night and day. For the first two weeks of school, I was in a state of awe. Sometimes when I came home, I would actually be reduced to tears as I would tell my mother how wonderful this new school was, how different in any way. In turn, she was shocked to discover things about my daily public school life that she hadn’t been remotedly aware of —- for example, why I so feared going to the restrooms at school.
I had some wonderful teachers in the public schools I attended. But many of them had grown jaded and discouraged by their own sense of powerlessness in the system. I had learned that there was little use in approaching the faculty with problems. Yes, of course everyone knew about the bathroom situation —- hadn’t the school newspaper done that alarming and controversial expose? Wasn’t the worst bathroom fully visible from the school office? The school administration was not blind or deaf to the billowing smoke, the fights, the boys going into the girls’ restroom, the rampant drug use…but what could be done?
In contrast, the slightest little concern at my new, Christian school was addressed and dealt with, usually prayerfully.
Now, I know that every public schooler that I’ve ever met is quick to assure me that their local school is not like the bizarre dens of iniquity I attended. Apparently I had the misfortune of attending the two worst schools in the nation (although those schools were considered wonderful compared to many others in our state). Schools are different now. Kids are much, much nicer. Boys today are perfect gentlemen; girls need no longer fear sexual taunting or assault. Schools have been declared drug-free zones. Kids have all taken anti-drug, anti-alcohol, anti-violence, and abstinence pledges. Most of the teachers are highly moral people, if not strong Christians. Religious freedom is encouraged on campus. Bullying has been conquered (my martial arts students tell me otherwise). The gangs are all at someone else’s school. And every student’s grades are above average.
117. Rebecca
December 14, 2006
2:06 PM
One more comment, this one regarding ideaology and homeschooling: Tim, I’m sure that, given your experience with a variety of homeschooling families, you did not mean to appear to be describing one narrow ideaology as the only one motivating those who homeschool. Many, for example, are drawn to homeschooling more out of an educational philosophy, perhaps as a result of reading John Holt or Raymond Moore and, more recently, John Taylor Gatto. Others homeschool because of a particular political stance (I’m thinking of the libertarian families that I know) or because of a societal idealogy (an opposition to age segregation, for example). Then there are the many who have no particular idealogy at all; they are just resucing a child from a poor experience in institutional schooling. I’m sure you know that, but your post gave the impression that you didn’t.
118. Angela
December 14, 2006
2:15 PM
Every homeschooler I have ever run into has claimed to be “different than your average homeschoolers”
……ooookay
Case in point, about 20 comments above.
119. Angela
December 14, 2006
2:20 PM
“Apparently I had the misfortune of attending the two worst schools in the nation “
For real, rebecca, where did you attend? Because I am only 8 years out of a suburban public school system and your experience is something i’ve only seen in movies.
“Now, I know that every public schooler that I’ve ever met is quick to assure me that their local school is not like the bizarre dens of iniquity I attended”
Thats because your experience is the exception, not the rule. Please don’t ‘teach’ (and I use the term loosely) your great logic to your children.