I made my children cry. A short time ago my son and daughter came to me and Abby, representing both of them, I suppose, asked the kind of question little girls ask. It was a question they must have been thinking, or perhaps arguing, about. “Daddy, who do you love more, Mommy or us?” I thought for just a moment and told them the truth. They cried.
The fact is, I love their mother more than I love them and I told them as much. I did so gently and lovingly but with confidence that I am right to feel this way. I love my children desperately. I love them with the kind of love that wants only the best for them and which seeks to protect them from the pain and anger and evil that are so prevalent in this world. I pray for them continually, asking that God would protect them even from me and from my ineptitude and sin and ignorance. I never chose to love my children. From the moment Aileen and I learned that they were growing inside her, I loved them. I spoke to them and sang to them and prayed for them before they were born; I walked the house with them night after night when they were tiny; I love them fiercely and love to spend time with them. And still their mother has first place in my heart.
There are undoubtedly different kinds of love and we cannot necessary equate the passionate, romantic love I have for my wife with the parental love I have for my children. Where I never chose to love my children, I did choose to love Aileen, or I did as much as anyone can exercise his will in such matters of the heart. There came a time when I set my heart on her and committed myself to loving her for better or for worse.
When my children asked me who I loved more, I explained to them that the primacy of my love for their mother is a good thing that will give stability to all of our lives. They may be too young to really understand this, but some day it will make sense to them. If I were to love my children more than my wife, I might allow them to stand between me and her; were I to love them more, I might allow them to disrupt my relationship with my wife and divide our family. I have seen that happen in too many families. Because mom and dad are not first and foremost committed to each other, a child can stand between them and divide them. Too many family have been torn apart in exactly this way. Mom chooses daughter over dad and the family is ripped apart.
But I am not going to allow this to happen in my family. Because Aileen is my first love, I will not allow anyone or anything to stand between us—even people we love as much as our very own children. Our love for each other does not enter us into some kind of competition with our children; rather, it is an expression of our love and concern for them. It is exactly what they need most to grow up in a stable home where mom and dad will remain together, committed under God to each other and to them. And I pray that some day they will find loving spouses whom they love more than us and more than anyone else.
So tell me. Would you have answered the question as I did? Or is it really the kind of question which, because it crosses categories, should not be answered at all?
Comments (79) »
1. Richard
August 20, 2008
10:06 AM
oh, boy. I think I would have answered that “I love you and Mommy with a different kind of love,” and left it at that.
2. Jimmy Davis
August 20, 2008
10:07 AM
I’ve told my kids the same thing. They didn’t cry or complain, but seemed to have the attitude: “Well, duh, Dad! That’s the way it should be.” If telling them that I love their mom more than I love them warps them somehow, I promise I’ll help pay for their therapy when they’re adults.
3. Blake
August 20, 2008
10:08 AM
Yes I would tell my children I love their mother more than I love them (maybe say “well yes I love her more because she gave YOU to me!”, but that misses the point you made, doesn’t it) and pray that they will understand when they are older the theological reasons why the marriage relationship and love cannot be surpassed even by the love of parent to child.
4. Jake
August 20, 2008
10:13 AM
Tough question, good answer. I think it’s a question kind of like infra vs. supralapsarianism, where it’s more of a logical difference than quantitative. We love our kids and our wives so much that it’s almost pointless to talk about which we love “more.” But my love for my wife logically precedes my love for my son, and is, as you said, the foundation of my love for him— he is, in a very real sense, the physical depiction of our love for each other.
Jonathan Edwards would have a heyday with this.
5. Blake
August 20, 2008
10:21 AM
No, yeah, Jake, you really hit on it right there. Our children are the overflow of our love for our wives, so our love for them cannot be separated from our love for our wives.
6. Betty
August 20, 2008
10:25 AM
I remember when my mom told me that she loved my dad more than us (there are 8 of us kids) and I was broken hearted. But because of their love for each other and the example they set for us, I realize, and seek to follow their example in my own marriage (though only a year old, with no kids in the picture YET). Thanks Tim, for your post, I really enjoy reading your blog.
7. kim from hiraeth
August 20, 2008
10:26 AM
Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And, since you asked, I’ll link to a post I wrote some time ago that deals with this very subject.
http://hiraeth.squarespace.com/hiraeth-b/2006/5/14/happy-mothers-day-mom.html
8. Andy Wood
August 20, 2008
10:27 AM
Dude! You made you kids cry! Negative superdad cool points for you!
Seriously, my answer would be, Absolutely. I would have added something along the lines that loving Mommy more helped me love them even more. And of course, that old parental, “One day you’ll understand this,” or “one day you will feel the same way about the person you marry.”
I do agree that it’s a different KIND of love.
9. David W. Bailey
August 20, 2008
10:27 AM
Dead on, Tim! I think I learned this as much from my own dad, intuitively, just watching him with my mom, before I ever learned any applicable Bible references. My folks will celebrate 50 years of marriage next May. Husbands, love your wives!
10. Carla Rolfe
August 20, 2008
10:34 AM
“So tell me. Would you have answered the question as I did? Or is it really the kind of question which, because it crosses categories, should not be answered at all?”
As a wife, a mother and a grandmother, I can easily say that I would have not answered the question the way you did. I don’t believe it is a question that can be answered in the “more than” way at all. I fully understand being united as parents and not letting children pit one parent against the other and dividing the home (we all know families where this happens). At the same time, I can honestly say that just reading this post made me want to cry for probably the same reason your kids did.
Will they understand this line of thinking the older they get? Maybe, or maybe not. Maybe it would be better if they understood that there are different relationships, and different kinds of love-bonds.
If my kids asked me “who do you love more?” (and they have) I would simply tell them my heart is plenty big enough to love every one of them, and I do. If they asked if I loved my husband more than them, the answer would simply be that it’s a different kind of love-relationship and that there is no such thing as “more than”.
For what it’s worth.
11. Katie
August 20, 2008
10:39 AM
I would have answered exactly the same way you did. the biblical order is God, Spouse, Children. It is a difficult thing to explain to children and I pray that if or when I have to explain it to my little ones, i might be able to explain it in the same way you did. It may be difficult but it is the truth and the right thing. I agree, putting children above spouse could, and I will even say would, destroy a family. Not easy to see your children cry over that though, is it? It must have broken your heart a little.
12. Steven
August 20, 2008
10:55 AM
I have given the same answer…and it has really irked extended family members.
Oh well.
13. Elizabeth Esther
August 20, 2008
11:02 AM
I completely disagree.
I have 5 children. When they ask that same thing, I understand they are not asking a literal question. They just want to know that they are loved unconditionally. To answer with a lecture on the “primacy” issue is confusing and hurtful to children.
I would have answered much differently.
14. Karen in Wichita
August 20, 2008
11:03 AM
In the premarital counseling group we were in (mandatory to get married in that church), one of the things the counselor told us was that we had to love our spouse more than our kids. For those of us first-timers, that was no big thing… I mean, the kids were still hypothetical.
But for those who were remarrying (a goodly percentage of the group), the idea that if they weren’t willing to give up the kids to get married, they shouldn’t do it (assuming there was an ex that would give the kids adequate care) was pretty much unacceptable in most cases.
It’s probably not coincidental that of that group, a few years later very few were still together.
15. Dave B.
August 20, 2008
11:16 AM
I am with you Tim. When I first started my journal, I decided the promary reason was for me to leave my thoughts behind. So, therefore I started off with my love and affections. I knew that it may jump around once I cleared the first group of close family, but I wanted it to be in order of my love. My God, my wife, my kids, my family.
Far too many people aren’t giving you credit Tim, I am sure you told your daughters in the best way. Not, “I love your mom WAY more than you of course!” But it is the truth, and changing your answer to gray truth is scary across the board. Explaining your answer is right and saying it correctly matters. But telling your kids the truth is always the most important.
16. Dave B.
August 20, 2008
11:17 AM
I am with you Tim. When I first started my journal, I decided the primary reason was for me to leave my thoughts behind. So, therefore I started off with my love and affections. I knew that it may jump around once I cleared the first group of close family, but I wanted it to be in order of my love. My God, my wife, my kids, my family.
Far too many people aren’t giving you credit Tim, I am sure you told your daughters in the best way. Not, “I love your mom WAY more than you of course!” But it is the truth, and changing your answer to gray truth is scary across the board. Explaining your answer is right and saying it correctly matters. But telling your kids the truth is always the most important.
17. Matt Beatty
August 20, 2008
11:20 AM
I have four children - all fairly young - and although they’ve never asked the question in such a precise manner, issues have arisen that have necessitated talking this through.
When our first two (twins) came along, we wondered how we’d ever love another. About 18 months later, here came #3 and about 18 months after that, #4. With each successive child, we’ve haven’t seen the love for 1/2 or 3 diminish at all; just the opposite, in fact. And my love for my wife increases by the day.
I’d humbly suggest that we make a mistake when we presume (if Tim IS presuming…) that we have a finite amount of love to give to our loved ones - or even a “measurable” amount - and then that’s it. Rather, our love is analogous to God’s because of our creation in Him. Sure, we might enjoy an aspect of one child’s personality more than another’s. Or, we might covet our spouse’s fellowship in a way we don’t our childrens… but I’m not sure this amounts to loving one “more” than the other. Not sure at all.
fwiw.
18. Brian
August 20, 2008
11:21 AM
Wow Tim… I am a strong believer in telling the truth to your children. They surprise us with their understanding, even through tears.
I agree with your answer as well. I would tell them that when their mother and I were married we became one flesh, or one person. This is a special bond that they will enjoy one day, but it is different from love for a child.
I would also add that Mom and Dad (as one) love each of them unconditionally. It takes a Mom and a Dad’s love combined to love them in this way. Because they are the fulfillment of why Mom and Dad became one flesh (married) in the first place.
What a special share time! What an example of courage and humility. What an opportunity to share God’s truth. These just don’t come around often enough.
19. yipeng
August 20, 2008
11:24 AM
I agree with Elizabeth Esther.
To know that I was loved unconditionally.. that was exactly what I was looking for when I asked that question as a kid. I felt loved to know that my parents loved my brother and I equally… and that they loved each other and both of us, with their whole heart.
20. Laurie
August 20, 2008
11:28 AM
I liked your answer, and basically agree with the reasoning behind it, but, if my husband and I had children of our own that wouldn’t have been what I’d have said - maybe it’s the mother in me. I would have said, “I love you just as much, but in a very different way. I loved your Daddy first, and there wouldn’t be a You if it weren’t for me loving Daddy. God made Mommy and Daddy to be together until we die. God made you to grow up and leave Mommy and Daddy and marry someone you will love until the day you die. But through all that, we will always love each other.”
Now, I have a 19 and 17 year old from a previous marriage - from my pre-Christian life. It would be pointless to tell these children that I loved their father more than them. They know their father was an addict, and unfaithful - but the truth is had I become a believer then, and had I loved him more than them I probably would not have been the one to file for divorce. (I say probably because the adultery may have been too much to overcome.) But the point is, they know who I loved more, and they’ve suffered for it. Our culture tells us to love our children above all else, and in the name of loving our children we tear apart their families by divorce;and worse, we send them into the world with the self-centered notion that they, and their happiness is the purpose of it all - that they are the center of their universe. Their happiness is, ironically enough, worth any misery it causes themselves or anyone else who gets in the way of it. And worst of all, this profoundly impacts their ideas of God, and His purposes. They become very susceptible to the man-centered gospels which are so prevalent and popular, which present a God who is devoted first and foremost to their happiness, as they define it. They want to believe that they are first and foremost in God’s affections - that they are the center of His universe.
21. yipeng
August 20, 2008
11:30 AM
Truth in Love is never too far off the mark ;)
22. Bryan
August 20, 2008
11:35 AM
Coming from a divorced family where my father accused my mother of the very thing, I believe you answered rightly. My mother admits to this day it was to own chagrin.
The truth is hard sometimes not only to hear, but even more to understand.
Peace and Blessings
23. Bryan
August 20, 2008
11:36 AM
Coming from a divorced family where my father accused my mother of the very thing, I believe you answered rightly. My mother admits freely today it was to her own chagrin.
The truth is hard sometimes not only to hear, but even more to understand.
Peace and Blessings
24. Danielle
August 20, 2008
11:38 AM
What a hard question for a parent to answer! I think that you answered in the best way possible, though. Maybe you could follow up to make sure your kiddos know that they are loved unconditionally. While it is SO good for kids to see their parents put each other first, I can see that being scary or sad for them, too—perhaps that blow could be softened?
25. Chuck
August 20, 2008
11:39 AM
I really like the answer that Tim gave to his kids, and the thoughts in the comments above have been equally insightful, even when they do not totally agree with Tim’s approach. One commenter said the “Biblical order is God, spouse, children.” While that contention supports Tim’s response to his kids (although Tim did not mention God in his ranking of love) and it has a comfortable air of authority about it, where specifically are we taught that. Or do we just infer it from a variety of references?
I am clear from Matthew 22: 37-39 that God certainly takes the position of “first love” since Jesus is clear that this is the first and greatest commandment. But the “second which is like it” makes no distinction within the term “neighbor” between spouses and children, and even those who are not family members. These we are to love as ourselves. And within that, I think there is some disagreement. Are we to love neighbors MORE than ourselves, or “as ourselves”?
What I am remembering from Paul’s teaching about spousal and family relationships in Eph. and Col. doesn’t seem to give ranking, instead it gives more qualitative instructions on HOW we are to love.
It’s probably there, and I am just pulling a blank. Can anyone help?
26. Chuck
August 20, 2008
11:41 AM
I really like the answer that Tim gave to his kids, and the thoughts in the comments above have been equally insightful, even when they do not totally agree with Tim’s approach. One commenter said the “Biblical order is God, spouse, children.” While that contention supports Tim’s response to his kids (although Tim did not mention God in his ranking of love) and it has a comfortable air of authority about it, where specifically are we taught that. Or do we just infer it from a variety of references?
I am clear from Matthew 22: 37-39 that God certainly takes the position of “first love” since Jesus is clear that this is the first and greatest commandment. But the “second which is like it” makes no distinction within the term “neighbor” between spouses and children, and even those who are not family members. These we are to love as ourselves. And within that, I think there is some disagreement. Are we to love neighbors MORE than ourselves, or “as ourselves”?
What I am remembering from Paul’s teaching about spousal and family relationships in Eph. and Col. doesn’t seem to give ranking, instead it gives more qualitative instructions on HOW we are to love.
It’s probably there, and I am just pulling a blank. Can anyone help?
27. Rachael
August 20, 2008
11:47 AM
If I marry and have kids, I hope I will answer that I love them all, and indirectly avoid that question. It would be hard to measure anyway because in many regards the love is different. But in my heart I hope I will always cherish my husband and not be overdistracted by my kids in an unhealthy way. I respect your love for your wife.
28. Terry Rayburn
August 20, 2008
12:01 PM
Great subject, Tim.
Speaking the truth in love is critical.
But sometimes “the whole truth” would be way too time consuming, not to mention confusing to a small kid.
—It may be true that technically we love our wives more than our kids, especially as far as *preferring* them as the Bible teaches.
—It is also true that our “feelings” rise and fall from time to time, both with our spouse and our kids.
—It is also true that we are to love everyone, even our enemies with a 1 Cor. 13 kind of love, which is more of a decision, and a fruit of the Spirit, than a feeling.
—It’s also true that when we, by the Spirit, exercise that “decision” kind of love, wonderful feelings often follow.
—It’s also true that the kind of love we have for our wives is different in some ways than that for our children, just as the love we have for the lost is different in some ways than that we have for the Saints.
And I’m just scratching the surface of “the whole truth”.
So the question isn’t just one of “speaking the truth in love”, but WHICH part of the truth to speak.
In this case, I would simply tell my son that I love him with all my heart, just as I love Mom with all my heart, and when I fall short I look to the Lord for His love to fill my heart and mind.
I would add that I will *always* love him and Mom, no matter what, by the grace of God, and it’s not based on their performance.
Then, in a separate conversation a little later, I will explain to him how important it is that I *favor* Mom over him, and that this makes me a better Dad for him, and honors God and His Word.
Blessings,
Terry
29. Michael Metts
August 20, 2008
12:08 PM
Tim,
I have recently become a father (two days ago) and have begun to feel a new kind of (sorrowful) emotion that I am not real familiar with. Mine and my wife’s marriage is about to take on a new meaning.
I spent Sunday—the day before my daughter was born—doing as much as I could for my wife to commemorate our last day alone we would share before our family grew. I made her breakfast and bought her a romantic card, taking the time to write in it how I was feeling.
I believe this new emotion was a good thing to feel and an understandable one—perhaps somewhat selfish, but definitely just. I explained to my wife that I did not want to be substituted and that I want us to remain as close as before. I am jealous for her whole heart, and I trust that she is of mine.
My heart, if I am able to understand it, does not have a love that is divided between my wife and daughter, but is a heart of love that grows—with the exciting addition of our beautiful baby girl my love for my wife has grown very much, while a new love for my daughter has begun.
My wife and I have talked and prayed about this and we will concentrate on keeping each other as a priority. I’m so glad to have my daughter; she is our dearest love. The joy we have now is such a blessing! However, wisdom has been telling me much of what you have posted here. I will always love my wife more, and that is not solely attributed to the different kinds of love involved, but because of its simple truth.
My daughter will certainly be a daddy’s girl, but she is my daughter and I am responsible to God for raising her and training her and making sure she is equipped and prepared for life—as well as preparing her for her future husband (who I hope will be like her father) and that he will also justly put his wife (my daughter) in the rightful place of that necessary, deserving, and elevated position which is reserved solely and without division for a wife alone. That is how I intend to love her—along with lots of hugs and kisses too! And ponies…and dolls and…oh boy…
Thanks for a rich and blessed post.
-Michael
30. Angela
August 20, 2008
12:21 PM
This caught my eye because my parents made the priority of their relationship abundantly clear as I grew up. I am now in my 20s, and I am so thankful that as my sisters and I are growing up and leaving, I have no question that my parents’ marriage is healthy.
From the albeit limited perspective of one who has never been a parent, you answered well. I have enjoyed a lot of safety in knowing that my parents are for each other first and foremost. I don’t feel lack in their love for me; I know that they pray that I will experience the same thing they have- a godly, committed marriage.
31. Rey
August 20, 2008
12:26 PM
I think it was answered wrong because its a complex question that can’t be boiled down to levels. What dictates your love for your wife more than that for your kids? What barometric device do you use to measure that it is in fact greater? How is not choosing to love less than or greater than choosing to love?
“Who does God love more: Jesus or the Church?”
After all, God’s love for the Church is an elective love and active whereas the love for the Son has always been…does one make one greater than the other? It actually doesn’t make sense to put them on a comparative scale and that’s what Children Do because they try to think in terms like that or in black and white with scribbles all over the place.
You love your children because they came from you and their mother. They have their mother in them and they are in their mother (so when you see Aileen you don’t only see the gal you married but you see her as the mother of your Children).
It just doesn’t make sense to answer within the limits of their scalel.
32. Justin Keller
August 20, 2008
12:42 PM
The love between a husband and wife is a high and holy thing. Marriage is called something that God has brought about, what God has joined together and man is not to divide (Matt 19:16), a one flesh relationship of leaving and cleaving (Gen 2:24). Christian marriage is instituted by God to reveal something of the relationship of Christ and His Church (Eph 5:22-33). It should be noticed that when Christ says that He came not to bring peace but division within families, the one relationship that He leaves unmentioned is the relationship between husband and wife (Matt 10:34-39).
Where in all of Scripture is the love between parent and child put on the same level as that between husband and wife? An appeal to the love between the Father and Son will not suffice — analogies with intertrinitarian relationships break down and should not be pressed further than Scripture itself presses them.
Tim, I shared with my wife the question your children asked you, and her response was, “I hope he said that he loved his wife more.” My wife and I agree that our daughter needs to know that our love for God is ultimate and our love as husband and wife penultimate for at least three reasons. One, it’s biblical. Two, her own sense of love and security rests in part on her sense of the strength and devotion present in our marriage. And three, she is a sinner and will eventually try to split us to get what she wants. It’s part of what children do.
It’s clear from some of the responses to Tim’s post that some think it overanalytical to prioritize, or that to prioritize means we do not love our children unconditionally. Think of what that would mean for understanding the Greatest Commandment! To see God as our first love would mean that we do not love our neighbor wholeheartedly or unconditionally? Simply taking that sort of reasoning to its logical conclusions shows that priorities do not lessen love or make it conditional somehow.
I do not want ever to need to choose between God and wife, between God and children, between wife and children. But I live in a fallen world. I am a fallen man. My wife is fallen, and my daughter is fallen. So I must think these things through, and make my priorities, before times of trouble come. So God, wife, children it is.
33. KEM
August 20, 2008
12:43 PM
I am thinking everyone has given a very biblical answer to the handling of the question - some more pointed than others.
I think Rey asked a good question - “Who does God love more: Jesus or the Church?”. I don’t think it can be compared to human love relationships because it is going to be flawed no matter how we desire to be biblical. I believe scripture tells us that God loves himself first so Jesus would of course be God’s first love and the Church is an expression to that love for the exaltation of his first love his Son.
34. Dan Hagan
August 20, 2008
1:01 PM
Tim,
There’s a lot of very heavy analysis going on here and I can certainly understand the value of truth in almost all circumstances. However, considering the ages of the children and their inability to fathom the depth and special meaning of marriage might compel me to have somehow answered differently. There’s also some consideration that should be given to a child’s gender in this situation. A little girl’s emotional ties to her Dad are very powerful and formative. A young boy’s emotional ties lean more toward his Mom and he might be able to empathize with Dad…
I would suggest giving them an extra hug tonight at bedtime and starting the process of explaining (in simple terms) how your love for them is different than your love for their Mom but is still immeasurable.
Dan…
35. Susanna Rose
August 20, 2008
1:11 PM
From what I see from your comments, it seems mothers and fathers would often answer this question very differently. Fathers answer it bluntly and mothers in a little more of a piece-maker type fashion. Just an observation!
36. Susanna Rose
August 20, 2008
1:14 PM
Peace-maker, not piece-maker is what I meant!:)
37. Justin Keller
August 20, 2008
1:22 PM
Speaking of being fallen… It’s Matthew 19:6, not Matthew 19:16, that I intended to reference. Apologies for the typo.
38. Dan
August 20, 2008
1:28 PM
I recently read CJ Mahaney’s book on marriage and he made the exact same point as Tim. I forget the details of the anecdote, but in his book, CJ recounted a story where someone had said in front of CJ’s children that they were the ones he loved most. CJ immediately corrected him by saying that his wife was the one he loved most and his children came second.
As for the manner of communicating this truth to children, would they have understood that the primacy of a parent’s love for God does not reduce or cheapen the parent’s love for his children? If so, perhaps a similar analogy could be made to explain that the greater love between a husband and wife does not reduce or cheapen their love for their children.
39. e. adams
August 20, 2008
1:45 PM
i appreciate all the comments and i do enjoy your blog!
my husband and i have 7 wonderful children, 4 are grown now. i just wanted to say that none have ever asked us this question! although by God’s grace they say, as adults how grateful they are for our marriage’s example.
i heard someone say once that as their daughter asked them “who do you love more, Jesus or me?”, they responded , “the more i love Jesus, the more i love you.” it seems somehow related in my thinking, two kinds of love. each precious, no competition, but yes, one primary.
40. Joe
August 20, 2008
1:48 PM
Any time the children are put ahead of the spouse there is trouble on the horizon for both the children and the spouse.
The correct order is: God; spouse; children; the rest of the family; church and everything else.
If the spice (plural of spouse) put things in that order, the children’s needs will be well attended.
41. brandon
August 20, 2008
1:54 PM
beautiful…
ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her…
42. Alexandra
August 20, 2008
2:11 PM
As a newly re-married mother, I told my children that if they ever tried to make me choose between them and their new step-father, they would not be happy with the outcome. (Esentially conveying I would love him more than them.) I explained that I was still responsible to be a godly example of a wife to them and that my second husband would not be treated as second best. It was the best and most difficult thing I ever told them. They understood they would never come between us - and so they never tried to. Whew.
In ensuing years my husband and I led a blended families Sunday school class and shared this bit of wisdom. One newly remarried father was particulary outraged. He said: “I had my kids before I had my second wife and I’m responsible for them first. My wife understands this clearly.” Apparently she did. The were divorced later that year.
43. Amber
August 20, 2008
2:29 PM
I asked the exact same question of my mom, as a child…I was probably only about 5 or 6 years old. The fact that I remember it even now I think makes a big statement for the impact her answer had on me. She answered similarly to Tim and I remember arguing with her and thinking it wasn’t fair, but not being overly upset by it, as I knew she loved me and so did my dad. But as I grew up I remembered her words and came to appreciate and feel such security in knowing that they loved each other even more than they loved me. (Which I knew was a heck of a lot!) And now as I am grown up and married, I can say with confidence that I would answer that question the same way. I think no matter how small children are, it is important to communicate biblical priorities and even if they don’t quite get it now, they’ll benefit from it later.
44. Steve
August 20, 2008
2:36 PM
I would have responded “Why do you ask?” first. The ensuing conversation would hopefully have better “prepared the ground” for the final answer. Or, it may have let the children see the answer for themselves.
Though perhaps it could have been mentioned that, in a sense, you can’t love your children any more than you do.
(i.e. distinctions and categories exist, something along the lines of C.S. Lewis’s “First and Second Things”: “You can’t get second things by putting them first; you can get second things only by putting first things first.”)
45. mike
August 20, 2008
2:38 PM
“Who does God love more: Jesus or the Church?””
Jesus, but that doesn’t inform this discussion other than to eliminate the notion that somehow we must love everyone equally.
I remember when I was about 10 asking my dad if my mom and the kids were all knocked unconscious in a burning house, who he would save if he could only save one. Maybe it was my way of asking this same question.
Either way, he answered that he’d save my mom and I remember not really liking the answer at first, but his explanation seemed pretty good. Upon reflection, I have become very grateful that he answered this way and more importantly that his life demonstrated this.
Lastly, I’d say that children are more intelligent/complex than some seem to be giving credit for. I think the reason that I asked my dad the fire question was because he had given a more vague “I love you all equally, just in different ways” sort of answer that didn’t really answer what I was seeking and wasn’t as complex an answer as I needed at that point. Don’t assume that kids are always just after a confirmation of their “unconditional” love.
46. Steve
August 20, 2008
2:39 PM
I would have responded “Why do you ask?” first. The ensuing conversation would hopefully have better “prepared the ground” for the final answer. Or, it may have let the children see the answer for themselves.
Though perhaps it could have been mentioned that, in a sense, you can’t love your children any more than you do.
(i.e. distinctions and categories exist, something along the lines of C.S. Lewis’s “First and Second Things”: “You can’t get second things by putting them first; you can get second things only by putting first things first.”)
47. GUNNY HARTMAN
August 20, 2008
2:54 PM
It’s been said, so I’m not original. I would have said that I love them differently.
It’s hard to quantify love anyway, it seems to me. Be careful … their next question is, “Which of us kids do you love more?”
48. Justin Keller
August 20, 2008
3:11 PM
I really, really appreciated the suggestion that an extra hug at bedtime would be appropriate. That is some really wonderful parenting advice.
I don’t mean to be argumentative, but I’ve been investing a lot of thought and study against parenting questions lately. I live and pastor in the midst of a church culture that has seen waves of children over the past few decades leave the church, and we’re working hard to equip parents to love and train their children biblically. That said…
I might be wrong about this, but I’m not sure if asking “Why do you ask” would be helpful… If the children aren’t old enough to grasp Tim’s answer, then they probably aren’t old enough to know why they asked the question in the first place. Anyone who has asked their child “Why did you hit your sister?” and been frustrated with the response has learned that lesson experientially.
Perhaps some of the confusion over this question of love comes from its equivocal use. There are nuances and degrees of love ascribed even to God in the Scriptures. D.A. Carson’s book “The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God” is helpful for thinking about such things.
49. Jon
August 20, 2008
3:18 PM
This may be a situation where “show, don’t tell” is a good rule of thumb.
50. Jessica Watson
August 20, 2008
3:39 PM
I thought comment #38 was very helpful. As I initially read the post and comments, I was a little confused, not as to the correct answer, I agree with Tim, but how to word it, so that children would understand and not come away feeling insecure. If a child is old enough to articulate such a question, more than likely they are old enough to understand that we are to love God above all.
If children can understand that, then they will already have the concept of different loves down and will probably be fine when we explain we love our spouse more. Just like loving God more, doesn’t make our love for our children any less special, neither does our love for our spouses diminish parental love.
51. David
August 20, 2008
3:43 PM
I think that Tim probably had the best answer in that he did not give them a vague “I love you unconditionally.” The kids probably were looking for a literal answer, they are literal. It’s not good to dodge questions. We hate it when politicians dodge questions, why wouldn’t kids hate the dodged question?
But the answer that mom comes first is good, especially if explained well.
52. Frank Turk
August 20, 2008
3:51 PM
You see: you need to answer that question before you write a book on discernment. Now hand me a sword so I can sut that baby in half …
53. Elizabeth Esther
August 20, 2008
4:00 PM
Sorry to pipe up again, but this conversation has been sticking in my head all day!
1. Mothers and fathers answer differently: witness the above comments. For the most part, the dads seem to agree with Tim. Perhaps this issue is a classic case of the difference between men & women, mothers & fathers? For my own part, I could never give the whole “primacy issue” explanation—even if it is right. Maybe it’s just because I’m hardwired to be a nurturer.
2. I polled my own focus group (aka my husband). He said, “Yes, I love you more” (without hesitation). But he wouldn’t ever say this to the kids. He would go with the “it’s different” approach.
3. To Alexandra’s comment: wow, this really disturbed me.
54. David T
August 20, 2008
4:12 PM
Wow, the logic of calvinism applied to parenting. I would explain that love isn’t something you have a limited supply of, that you don’t dole out portions, making sure mom gets more. By all means, make your wife the priority, don’t allow the kids to divide the marriage, all good counsel, but you love your wife and your kids with all your heart. Hint: if someone compares the way you think about your kids with a finer point of theological argument (see Jake, #4) it may be time to re-think that approach.
55. MRMARK
August 20, 2008
4:26 PM
I remember the day I asked the same question to my mother and she replied just like you. I was crushed…for a few hours as I tried to understand. I believe that it is important for children to know that their parents love for each other is greater than for their children. No long-term harm for me, although I do remember it and I would suspect my mother would not.
56. Scott
August 20, 2008
4:33 PM
Wow! Honesty is always the best policy in my book, but along with that, everything should be spoken in love. I applaud you for doing both, and your kids will one day thank you for it, even if they do not understand right now. They will not forget this moment, and to me that is a wonderful thing to know. Later down the road, if they see you two upset with one another they will not think twice about how much you love one another. They will remember what you told them years back, and know that since you haven’t stopped loving them, then there is no way you have stopped loving their mother.
This is a wonderful thing to bring up, and one for me to think about, due to the fact that I don’t presently have children. This helps me prepare for that sort of situation. Thanks.
57. Al Beisser
August 20, 2008
4:46 PM
Tim,
My four kids, at the dinner table, asked me the same question, and I gave them the same answer. They didn’t understand, or take it without questions or complaints, but I guarantee this: They were thinking about it that night when they went to bed… And I’m praying that their little minds are being shaped and molded as this very truth surfaces again and again as they grow.
Blessings,
Al
58. Tim
August 20, 2008
5:22 PM
Only the relationship between a husband and wife is said to be “One Flesh”.
I’ve never understood the common thinking that places children before all others.
I feel the same way you do, but… I have two boys and I’ve always told them “I’m raising you to leave”. I don’t know if I would have differently with daughters.
I think they will grow to see that the greatest love you can demonstrate towards them is to love their mom with all of your heart.
59. Mike
August 20, 2008
5:41 PM
Alexandra,
I was going to applaud your response, but then I decided it was unnecessary. After seeing some criticism, I decided to chime in:
I applaud your decision to put your husband above your children and to make that plain to them. I have seen so many difficult family situations that result when one spouse has children that do not belong to the other. It seems to me that a general trend in those situations is the children taking over the primary position in the mother’s (or father’s, as the case may be) eyes.
60. David
August 20, 2008
6:00 PM
My boys, 7 and 9, know that I love their mom more than anyone on earth. I can assure you that they are comforted by this. In this day and age of commonplace divorce, I believe that kids need to know that their parents love each other and have a commitment to each other that is bigger than any other relationship. I tell my wife I love her in front of my kids and they see me ‘steal’ kisses and hugs. It makes them smile and giggle every time. They are not threatened by this love for her because they know how much I love them.
61. Reg Schofield
August 20, 2008
6:13 PM
The love for your children is different in nature than the love you have for your wife. When my wife and I were in pre-marriage counseling , the Pastor made it clear that we were to love each other uniquely and never begin to love a child more than your spouse. My mother ,at the time, was appalled , saying that your children are first . But I watched that drive a distance between my Father and her , and when she died of cancer , I think she realized what it meant that you should love your spouse first . A healthy home , with parents who love each other in a biblically modeled pattern , will only leave healthy children . Plus who hasn’t seen a couple fall apart after the children are gone, and the two are steering at each other over dinner , total strangers . Plus its not that you don’t love your children , or that you wouldn’t defended them to the point of death but the love have is very particular for your wife and has a depth that your children cannot provide.
62. Jeana
August 20, 2008
9:10 PM
When you put God before your wife, you are actually able to love her more than you would if you put her first. Similarly, if you put your wife before your children, you are able to love your children better than if you put them first.
I don’t know if I would have answered the same way—depending on their age and maturity I might have gone with the different love approach. However, we have always told our children that our marriage relationship comes first, above our relationships with them, and why. It’s a different way of saying the same thing, I think, but maybe not as likely to make them cry. :-)
So I’m disproving Elizabeth Esther’s theory, because I’m a mom four times over and I think you’re right on this one.
63. Rick
August 20, 2008
11:28 PM
Tim-
Who do you love more, me or your fish? Just trying to get a sense of where I fall on the love totem pole =)
64. Simple Mann
August 21, 2008
1:50 AM
Rick - Don’t feel too bad. I understand they are really, really nice fish…
65. Jonathan
August 21, 2008
8:03 AM
It would appear from a couple situations in Jesus’ life that he didn’t have a problem dealing with love/hate issues that “crosses categories”. (Luke 14:26, John 21:15-17) And at least in his conversation with Peter it’s pretty obvious he expected a yes or no answer.
Don’t know if you did or not, but it would have been an appropriate follow-on to tell your children that you “love God even more than mommy”, then explain why that is a good thing. Besides, didn’t Jesus say the greatest command was to “love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength” and then your neighbor (including wife and children) come after that?
66. Simple Mann
August 21, 2008
8:23 AM
I haven’t read through all the comments but was thinking about this on the way in to work this morning and had the thought that if presented with this question from my own kids, I would probably explain that husbands are to love their wives like Christ Himself loves the Church. Now, the Church itself is a wonderful thing—it helps to produce (in conjunction with the power of Christ) and sustain the true children of God, adopted into His glory. But Christ came and died for the Church. He did not lay down His life for just any single believer (or child of God), but for the entire body of believers. And though it is a great mystery (as Paul said when speaking of marriage in Ephesians), husbands are to love and see their wives the same way Christ did and does the Church. For children may come and go—for different reasons—in the lives of their earthly father and mother as much as their spiritual ones. But if the union between the husband and wife is not the most important thing, then the foundation of love on which the children should grow will not be able to sustain them. (Somehow this seemed so much clearer when I was thinking about it on the drive in this morning). The point I am trying to make is that I would want my kids know that there is a definite relation between the marriage of man and his wife and their children, and Christ and the Church and the congregation. There is not a single member of the Church that is more important than the Church herself to the Holy Bridegroom of Christ.
Peace & Blessings,
Simple Mann
67. Steph
August 21, 2008
10:30 AM
I think I sit somewhere between the two camps here. Here’s what I’m thinking:
We’re supposed to love God with ALL our heart. Well…ALL means all. Like, the whole thing, so there wouldn’t *logically* be anything left to love with after all of it is loving God. Yet we’re commanded to love others, too. So, a couple of things, then: 1. Loving others must be part of loving God; 2. We must have an “infinite” capacity for love. So we can love our children “as much as” our spouse, without devaluing the love for our spouse. As well, our “children love” doesn’t fraction itself off with an increase in the number of children. Love can’t be quantified.
More clearly (I hope), I think that the type of love I’m to have for my husband manifests itself in a way that makes him more important than my daughter (and hopefully future children) in a *practical* way. I would say I love my daughter as much as I love my husband, but it’s a love that certainly looks different! Basically, I don’t know that I could quantify either love, but lived out, I prioritize my husband before my children…knowing that one day, Lord willing, I will send my daughter off to a new home, but I will be with my husband all of my days.
Way to sit on the fence, self!
68. Flora
August 21, 2008
11:08 AM
Interesting topic and discussion. I’ve noticed that many mourn a spouse for a time and then remarry but those who lose a child are affected for the rest of their lives and sometimes never get over it. We all know what the right answer is but it’s all hypothetical and difficult to quantify until we experience actual loss and bereavement.
69. Nathan
August 21, 2008
12:10 PM
One of your kids might as well have posed you with this scenario: Mommy and I both need a heart transplant. Without it we will die in a week. It turns out that you are the only one in the world who has the heart that we need. Which one of us, if any, would you choose to give your heart to?
Your answer was, “I love mommy more.” Hmmm… .
How about this answer — “That question doesn’t make any sense! One can’t quantify and prioritize love especially two different kinds of love. My love for mommy is different than my love for you. In fact my love for you wouldn’t exist without my love for mommy. My love for you is the way it is because I love mommy. My love for you means that I… ”
70. Daryl
August 21, 2008
12:47 PM
My kids once asked me that very question and I answered very similarly to Tim.
Their reply ? “WHAAAAAAAAT?? That’s not fair!!” But the huge grin on their faces gave them away. (I still makes me smile just thinking about it)
It seems to me that everytime the say “Fine, then I’ll go ask Mom!” They are asking the same question again. And when I say “You try that and you won’t like what happens!” they are getting the same answer.
My kids know their place, and they love it. After all, when the woman they love more than anyone else in the world is the only one that I love more than them…what’s not to like?
71. Mike
August 21, 2008
7:25 PM
Reminds me of the story of the little boy who asked his father where he came from. The dad launched into a rather extensive “birds and the bees” lecture to his wide-eyed son, who responded, “Oh, really? My friend Johnny said he came from Detroit.”
While your answer is theologically correct, I think it is age inappropriate for young kids who won’t really understand the deeper theological underpinnings. There are lots of kid’s questions that are better left to a slightly older and more mature age for our full and in-depth answers.
72. Trillia
August 21, 2008
11:04 PM
Oh wow Tim- you’ve gotten advice from a whole thought of people so all I wanted to say is that I think that’s great. One day they’ll understand and appreciate and respect you for it. One day your girls will (possibly) desire a husband that loves them as much as you love Aileen!
My friend always says when he is with his dauther and someone asks, “Is she the apple of your eye.” He replies, “No, her mom is.” I’ve seen him do it and I think it’s commendable.
73. krm
August 22, 2008
10:50 AM
You gave the correct answer.
74. Jenn
August 22, 2008
4:52 PM
I think your answer was great AND Biblical. I am not married, nor do I have children, but if I was and did, I would give the same answer. They may cry, but prayerfully someday, they will understand and appreciate it.
75. Lance Recker
August 22, 2008
11:07 PM
Difficult as it may have been to utter, I believe your answer was the correct one. Christian marriages are to reflect Christ’s love for His Bride, the Church. No human bond can be greater because of this in my mind.
I also agree a prior comment - give those kids an extra hug and explain it again. Some day they’ll get it.
Lance
76. Antoinette
August 23, 2008
11:28 AM
I don’t think love is the kind of thing that can be measured. I probably would have gone with the I love mommy differently than you. They probably weren’t trying to usurp your marital relationship, but instead just trying to be special to you. I would have explained that mommy and daddy have a special relationship and that they and daddy have a special different relationship. They wouldn’t have understood that either, but it doesn’t give satan anything to play with in their littly heads. God’s grace is sufficient to cover our blunders, though. I’m sure you children know that you love them deeply and will not skip a beat. I would just have avoided the more than idea!!
77. Wyeth
August 23, 2008
4:41 PM
Tim, for what it’s worth, I think you gave an excellent answer. As far as I can remember, I’ve never been asked that question by my sons (now ages 15 and 12) but, speaking as a father, had I been asked that question, my answer would have been similar to yours.
Thinking further about this, I wonder how your children would have responded had you said you loved them more than their mother. Instead of crying, would they be glad? I suspect their question was merely a reflection of that sinful nature that is inherent in all of us. Your children’s tears were probably the result of their hurt pride. They know you love them, and I’m sure you demonstrate that love to them in many ways every day. There was no reason to ask who you love more.
As they get older, your children will appreciate and love you all the more for your love and commitment to your wife and the priority you give to your marriage.
78. Nichole
August 26, 2008
2:39 PM
My dad has said the same thing to my brother and sisters and I several times and it has always been viewed as a good thing.
He has taught us that my brother is designed to leave our home and start his own. He has taught us that one day he will give my sisters and I away to our own husbands. And when those days come, he will still have my mother.
Although this can be hard to hear when children are young, they will soon come to embrace the idea and look to the day when they have a husband or wife to love and be loved in the same way.
79. Anne
August 31, 2008
6:33 AM
Hi Tim,
I’m pretty sure that I’d have answered that I love my husband differently to the way I love them FWIW. Loving your children in the same way as you love your marriage partner seems to me to be a bit icky.
But I did want to ask a question. Your post seems to describe a perfect world where nothing should come between a husband and wife. BTW I agree completely with that sentiment and both our kids have been told more than once “Nobody speaks to my wife/husband like that” when they’ve stepped out of line. Both kids know that I am his #1 and he is mine. However, what would be appropriate/inappropriate if the couple had a child with a profound disability which required constant care? What if the amount of care that the child required actively prevented the wife from spending time with her husband? Would it be appropriate for her to let the care of the child slide so that the husband could be her number #1 priority, after God? What if she was so tired from all that caring that she was physically unable to minister to “his needs”? One would hope that the husband would share in that care and that this would be a burden that they bore together, but again, we’re talking about an imperfect world. What should the wife’s response be if the husband refused to acknowledge that there was anything wrong with the baby and mistreated his wife because she was looking after the baby and not giving him the starring role?
As you may have guessed I am speaking about a specific situation. What you say is all well and good - but what would be appropriate in this situation? How should the wife respond when the husband makes it clear that he sees her caring for the child as being willful, rebellious and unsubmissive? I am not trying to be difficult or nasty here - I simply want to know. My question is genuine and I have no desire to stir up trouble.