Book Review - Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Life
Rick Warren’s The Purpose Driven Life is a runaway bestseller, having already sold over ten million copies, making it one of the best-selling Christian books of all time. Thousands of churches have committed to leading their congregations through the Forty Days of Purpose program. I decided to spend forty days journaling my way through this book to try to determine what they hype is all about.
The Purpose Driven Life proclaims itself to be “more than a book; it is a guide to a 40-day spiritual journey that will enable you to discover the answer to life’s most important question: What on earth am I here for?” We see that the author is setting his sights high; he is going to attempt to answer the greatest question we can face – that of our meaning and purpose. He promises that at the end of the journey “you will know God’s purpose for your life and will understand the big picture – how all the pieces of your life fit together.” The results of this will be amazing. “Having this perspective will reduce your stress, simplify your decisions, increase your satisfaction, and, most important, prepare you for eternity.” It is a courageous man who would write a book that claims it will do all of that. Of course these lofty standards help us realize why this book has attracted such great attention!
The format of the book is simple. The book is divided into six parts: an introduction followed by a section for each of the five purposes Rick Warren has discovered. Each day’s reading is only a few pages long and is followed by a verse of the Bible to memorize, a point to ponder and a question to consider. The book is packed with over 1200 quotations from the Bible.
There are many positive aspects to this book. The author obviously loves the church and views the local church as a beautiful institution. He speaks of the value and necessity of Christian community that can only be gained through the local church. He is firm on this point, stating that there is no such thing as a lone Christian. He has many good things to say about worship and how so many people view worship as being about themselves rather than being an outpouring of praise and obedience towards God. He speaks of the value of identifying and utilizing our spiritual gifts.
I believe Rick Warren is a godly man who truly wants to reach the world for Christ. In interviews I have read I can see that he certainly has an understanding of the Reformed tradition and has affirmed his belief in the “five solas” of the Reformation. When with Reformed people he certainly can talk the talk, so to speak. Though I do not doubt his faith or his intentions, I find that the book itself deviates from Reformed doctrine on many points.
There are literally hundreds of reviews of this book that focus on the positive attributes of the book. Many of them are written very well and there is little I can add to them. For that reason I am going to focus on some of the concerns I have with this book.
Problems in the Introduction
As I pointed out, this book makes great promises. Though there is nothing wrong with setting high standards, what is the measure of these standards? It seems that all of these standards are based on experience. There is nothing here about having a closer walk with God. As a matter of fact, there is little promised that would not be found in a secular book about finding purpose. Experience will be the ultimate measure of whether this book has succeeded. It does not promise to change the heart or mind.
One of the primary goals of the Christian life is to learn more about God and how He wants us to live. We are then to become more and more conformed to His will. This book has little to say about this process we know as sanctification.
The book is based on a false premise that there is supernatural value to a 40-day study. The author says that “whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes he took 40 days.” This is simply not true. Though the 40 day time period is used quite often in Scripture, we should not be superstitious about it. There are many examples of God taking different amounts of time to prepare people. Having to force the book to a length of forty days leads to a lot of repetition, especially in the last four or five chapters.
Thesis
Page 25 seems to summarize the thesis of the book. It says “We discover that meaning and purpose only when we make God the reference point of our lives.” This seems to say that if the reader finds God he will also find himself and his purpose. This is not the gospel!
Multiple translations
Rick Warren quotes the Bible over 1,200 times in the text of The Purpose Driven Life. To do so, he uses fifteen different translations and paraphrases. Appendix 3 contains his rationale for this and he provides two reasons for the number of translations. The first is that in any single translation “nuances and shades of meaning can be missed, so it is always helpful to compare translations.” The second is “the fact that we often miss the full impact of familiar Bible verses, not because of poor translating, but simply because they have become so familiar.” (author’s emphases) He believes this will “help you see God’s truth in new, fresh ways.” (author’s emphasis)
The author’s logic is faulty as the two reasons he provides contradict each other. If a translation introduces something in a new and fresh way it will necessarily introduce new nuances and shades of meaning. The way to remove nuances and shades of meaning is to use as literal a translation as possible so that the words are God’s alone and are not interpreted by the translator. The author can then exposit the text, clarifying what might require clarification. This is nothing more than the traditional means of teaching what the Bible says.
As for verses losing their full impact, this may happen to some Christians, but rather than use poor Scripture translations, the author should help the reader focus on the fact that as a Christian he should love the Bible. As with David, God’s Law is to be our delight day and night and not something we grow tired of.
There is a serious impact to Warren’s use of so many translations. It shows his view of the inspiration and sufficiency of Scripture. It seems that he does not believe that the Bible as God wrote it is sufficient for people today. He must believe that a very loose paraphrase like The Message can impact people in a way that the real translations cannot. He shows that he is not a faithful expositor of the Bible.
Audience
The author aims this book at two distinct audiences – believers and unbelievers. He shows that he is, initially at least, writing for unbelievers by inviting them to pray a short prayer, asking them to say “Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you.” He then welcomes them to the family of God. I fear, though, that he uses too many Christian terms and phrases to really connect with unbelievers. Similarly, if he is hoping to reach new Christians, I think the same holds true – the “Christianese” terms and many of the Biblical references may alienate them. On the other hand, if he is hoping to reach mature Christians, much of the book will be too simplistic for them.
We know from the Bible that there is a vast difference between believers and unbelievers. Those who have come to a saving knowledge of Christ have had their very natures changed. They have become adopted children of God and have become heirs to His promises. They have special privileges and they have knowledge and faith that unbelievers do not. This is not to say that a book can or should not be written that attempts to reach both audiences. What it does mean is that an author must be sure to distinguish between audiences, being careful not to mislead either audience.
Warren often fails to differentiate between audiences. For example, in the second chapter he quotes Ephesians 1:4 which reads “just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.” The context of this verse shows that the author is referring to only Christians, yet Warren makes no distinction.
The Gospel
The author does not at any time provide a clear explanation of the gospel message. On page 58 he says, “Real life begins by committing yourself completely to Jesus Christ” but never comes closer than that. He never writes about such crucial doctrines as man’s sinfulness and need for a Savior or the work of Jesus. He never mentions the importance Christ’s life, the cross or the empty tomb. Yet on page 58 we find him leading the prayer of “Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you” and then saying “Welcome to the family of God!” How can a person become a Christian without any understanding of his own sinfulness or of Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf?
The author paints God’s relationship with humans as being nothing but love. On page 294 he says “God has never made a person he didn’t love.” Yet we know that God expressed hatred towards Esau and Pharaoh. It seems that the author would have no explanation for such displays of hatred.
Warren’s gospel seems to be one of purpose. He teaches that man’s greatest problem is purposelessness and this book will remedy that situation by helping the reader discover his purpose. Needless to say, this is not the gospel as taught by the Bible. The Bible teaches that man’s greatest problem is that he is a sinner and is alienated from God. Purposelessness is insignificant compared to the possibility of an eternity in hell.
Life Application
The aim studying the Bible is application. We are to study the Bible so we can apply what we learn to our lives, with the ultimate aim of conforming ourselves to the image of Christ. Application, though, depends on proper teaching and sound knowledge. It stands to reason that a person cannot apply to his life something he does not understand. Teaching stands as the foundation that application is built upon.
Since Warren does not explain the gospel and the real means of salvation, how can people truly apply what he teaches? If everything is application, what do they really believe in?
Purpose
The Purpose Driven Life is premised on the teaching that only Christians can live with purpose. It follows, then, that unbelievers have no real purpose to their lives. Yet the Bible teaches that they do! Proverbs 16:4 says “The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil.” Unbelievers do have a purpose, though it is not the same as the purpose God has for those who believe in Him. Interestingly, in chapter seven the author quotes this passage but omits the second half of the verse.
Bible Use
We have already seen how the author has used multiple translations as well as his justification for doing so. Of even greater concern is his carelessness in his use of the Bible. He continually removes Scripture passages from their proper context in order to make them suit his purposes. He carelessly applies promises to the reader that clearly do not apply. He also distorts or changes the meanings of certain passages to make them say what he wants them to say.
First we will examine promises Warren says apply to all Christians. One clear example of this is Jeremiah 29:11 which he uses multiple times in the book. On page 31 we read “Wonderful changes are going to happen in your life as you begin to live it on purpose. God says “I know what I am planning for you…’I have good plans for you, not plans to hurt you. I will give you hope and a good future’.” When read in context we see that this verse is not written to apply to all Christians. It is a promise given specifically to the Israelite exiles. By Warren’s logic Jeremiah 44:27 should also apply to all Christians. It reads, “I am watching over them for harm and not for good, and all the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt will meet their end by the word and by famine until they are completely gone.” A pastor once told me “that verse wouldn’t sell as many plaques at the Christian book stores.”
A second example is Isaiah 44:2. This is used in the heading of the second chapter and is rendered “I am your Creator. You were in my care even before you were born.” The author chooses to quote only the first part of the verse. The second part, we see, goes directly against what he wants to say. It reads “Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.” When viewed in the proper context we see that this verse applies only to a specific group (which is, once again, the Israelites).
There are some passages where Warren uses the Bible extremely carelessly. The clearest example of this is in chapter 10 where he discusses the blessing of surrendering to God. As support he quotes Job 22:21 as saying “Stop quarreling with God. If you agree with him, you will have peace at last, and things will go well for you.” When we look at the larger context of this passage we see that these are the words of Eliphaz, one of Job’s infamous friends. We see that Eliphaz is giving Job poor advice which God later condemns. Warren knows better than this!
Thomas Jefferson once said “The moment a person forms a theory his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory.” The author seems to fall into a trap where he sees teachings about purpose in parts of the Bible that simply are not about purpose. For example, on page 30 he talks about the hopelessness of a life lived without purpose. In discussing this under the heading of “the benefits of purpose-driven living” he quotes the book of Job where Job says “My life drags by – day after hopeless day.” Of course familiarity with the book of Job will show that to say Job was bemoaning lack of purpose is ridiculous. A man who has had everything he owned and everyone he loved taken from him and is covered in sores is not likely to be upset by a lack of purpose in his life. In the same chapter the author quotes Genesis 4:12 which says of Cain “You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.” Again, this is made to sound like it has something to do with purpose. And again, this is a ridiculous assertion.
There are at least fifty similar examples where the author uses Scripture outside of its context or assigns a foreign meaning. When Scripture is not used in the way God intends, this sort of inconsistency is inevitable.
Sources cited
The author quotes a number of sources other than the Bible. Many of these are quoted as if they are authorities on an area of the Christian life. Among many others, he quotes Mother Teresa, St John of the Cross, Brother Lawrence and Henri Nouwen. None of these people should be considered trusted sources of Christian advice and wisdom.
Conclusions
There are several conclusions we can draw. This book does contain some valuable teachings. Unfortunately it also contains a large amount of false teachings. Most alarming is the author’s blatant disregard for the proper use of Scripture. He continually uses Bible passages out of context and assigns them false meanings. He seems to view Scripture as a tool to be used and abused as he sees fit rather than seeing it as God’s holy, perfect, unchangeable standard that must be used carefully.
As for the premise of living a life driven by purpose, I remain uncertain as to whether this is really what the Bible teaches. It is interesting to examine the word “driven” in the Bible. We see that the word generally has negative connotations in Scripture. It most often denotes an active force pushing and controlling a passive subject. For example, a ship is driven by the wind and the enemies of the Israelites were driven out of the land. On the other hand the word “led” most often speaks of a believer choosing to follow God’s ways through knowing Him better. For instance the Israelites were led by a pillar of cloud which they chose to follow and Jesus taught us to ask “do not lead us into temptation.” So perhaps we are not to be driven by purpose but should instead be led by God.
I can recommend this book only to discerning readers. There is certainly some value in the book, but in my opinion the bad outweighs the good. I would certainly not use this as an introduction to Christianity or as a means of reaching unbelievers.
I am interested in seeing whether this book stands the test of time or if it is only another fad. The Christian world loves to find the “next big thing” (ie The Prayer of Jabez) but very few stand the test of time. I expect this book will have very little long-term impact in the Christian world.


Comments (140) »
1. Chris
January 12, 2004
6:06 PM
Hmmmmm. guess I’ll just have to get through the next 39 days and get back to you on this! Chris
2. ScottyMac
January 17, 2004
11:11 PM
In my first pass at reading your review, I must say that I agree with most of your assessments. I’ve spent a lot of time in the past year and a half researching the “purpose-driven” methodology in both church and personal application, and have found it wanting. I left a PD church one year ago, because it was devoid of scriptural teaching. The pastor, much like Warren, used scripture (or should I say verses from paraphrases and translations of dubious origin) to support his sermon points. I found it shallow, and a poor substitute for being taught the whole counsel of God found in scripture.
I am hoping in the coming weeks to be able to post more of my reflections on the web, written in article form.
In recent church history, there has always been a fad. There will always be a deception. Now that I’ve spent thirty years in ministry, I’m old enough to understand that most of the fad books of the past several decades are little more than fodder for the next yard sale. We’ve been deceived, thinking that profound authors and speakers have written their answers. The apostle Paul wrote in I Corinthians 2:1-5:
And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling. And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. (NAS)
I should think that if Paul’s wisdom was not a good enough basis for our faith, neither are the present ‘gospel gurus’ of this present age.
Only God can bring change to the heart, not the persuasive words of wisdom from men. All the books and sermons intended to coerce change pale to the power of the Word of God to bring change. Warren has written 40 chapters to convince his readers of the need to change their lives. Save your money and get in the Word.
3. Dave
January 22, 2004
3:44 AM
I appreciate your desire to critique Rick’s book without bashing. But I don’t agree with your final conclusions. I think you will see this book around for many years to come. I’m a pastor and have seen the Holy Spirit use it to transform lives. Does his book need a revision, perhaps on a few scriptures you nitpicked but I think there is much more scriptural teaching than not.
4. Joey Angeles
January 22, 2004
8:13 AM
I barely read the first chapter of the book and observed the out-of-context use of the scriptures. And placing the citations on the endnotes does not make it any easier to check the verses. I’m almost halfway the forty chapters when one of my churchmates told me to check your review of the book, noting that my observations are similar to yours. Indeed I agree to your observations. While I do not question the motive of the author to reach out to people for the betterment of their lives, the habit of forming a position and finding scriptural support regardless of the context is the same practice that most cults and new age groups have been using and we’ve been fighting. It’s like putting the cart ahead of the horse. Just the same, I cannot disregard the positive impact this book has on people I know.
5. Tim
January 22, 2004
8:56 AM
I certainly do not disregard the positive impact this book can and will have on people. There are many positive aspects to this book. However, to say that the positives mean that the negatives do not matter is pragmatic at best. The end does not justify the means.
6. rolan gabriel
January 23, 2004
2:25 AM
For an unbelieving audience whose intention is to be inspired, I think PDL is a good book to incorporate as a devotional source. However, as you have keenly noticed, the use, misuse & misappled verses brought about by various translations & paraphrasings somehow distort its exegitical meaning. Mature christians i guess have the capability to accept what is acceptable while rejecting the excesses & exaggerations. My call for all christian groups facilitating the PDL program, I hope you’ll be delicately watchful in studying it. I still believe in the essence Rick Warren is trying to impart, we just have to be selective.
7. nonie sables
January 25, 2004
10:18 PM
As I read the book and observe the reactions of people regarding the book, I began to analyze everything. My first obeservation about the content of the book is its emphasis on pragmatism. It has a very weak emphasis on the the explanation of the the scriptures, rather the emphasis is on the practical side of experiences of life. As I hear testimonies about this book, it seems that the book is becoming more sacred than the word of God itself. Of course this book is no substitute to the infallible Word of God-the Bible. I do hope that mature christians and faithful expositors of the bible will explain this “purpose driven life” phenomena to their congregations.
8. Chris
January 28, 2004
5:12 PM
I have read portions of the book and find the critique here mostly accurate. I agree with the uneasiness with how certain passages are treated. With this and other books, movements, and fads that flood the Christian psyche there is little to no balance implemented. It’s as if Warren’s book is becoming some apocryphal book to be read in conjunction with scripture.
The constant use of people like Mother Theresa as examples of great Christian minds by Evangelicals is exceptionally troubling to me. A Christian Pastor, Teacher or Author who wants to quote anyone just because they profess they are Christians without even looking into that person’s beliefs are in essence exposing a shallow scholarly approach to their own literature. Mother Theresa denied essential Christian doctrine. We Christians sometimes get very lax with our literature and how we express ourselves.
Even though the book is passable in generic teachings I once again see another Church fad that will leave people wondering why this latest fad didn’t do the trick in their lives. Didn’t Jesus say that in this life you will have trials and tribulations? I don’t think anyone will be able to completely figure this life out as long as we live on this planet. Even Job didn’t get all the answers he wanted.
9. Abby & Rob Campbell
January 31, 2004
2:45 PM
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I’m doing a review on the “Purpose Driven Church” which seems to be far worse than “Purpose Drive Life” in which our church is getting ready to do. I can’t wait to get this out there. You’ve been a wonderful help, and I can’t thank you enough! It’s about time someone exposes the truth on this writing! God bless you!!!
10. ScottyMac
February 2, 2004
4:59 PM
If you are planning to ‘expose’ some truth regarding the Purpose Driven Church, don’t be surprised if your warnings are both unheeded and unwelcome. Part of the PD church structure stresses unity to such a degree, that people who oppose the system are seen as threatening the unity of the church.
Before leaving a PD church over a year ago, we witnessed the marginalizing of many who dared to challenge the PD structure. Most left, as we did. It was not a pretty sight.
As you research the PD Life, you may discover it is only a tip of the whole PD iceberg. The PD church book and methodology has been around longer, and is quite an extensive (almost turnkey) system of running a church. You may even purchase Rick Warren’s sermon notes and outlines for use with your own congregation. No need to actually have to read and teach the word.
11. Susan
February 3, 2004
11:36 PM
Hello Tim, Thank you for your site. It is read and appreciated.
Re: PDL Our pastor sprung the PDL-40 days of purpose program on the deacons and church at the last minute. All the deacons agreed that the book had many problems, but the majority decided to go on with the $7000.00 program. There was one brave man who stood in the gap.
The Sunday School teachers and children were the last to be considered. The program that we got -at the last minute from Saddleback (PDL doesn’t offer one), also needed to be gone over carefully for scriptural accuracy. Many of the teachers are still in shock at the “lack” in the material, but the “freeze is on” for anyone who shows any disagreement. Spies are everywhere. Discipline has already been discussed by the pastor because a gossip overheard an unrelated conversation between two friends after a SS meeting. It is SAD!
I am writing this as a warning. Stay away from The Purpose Driven Life!!! It has nothing to do with God’s purpose for your life.
God’s Word Needs No Explanation Psalm 119:105&106; John 3:16-17; Romans 12:1&2
12. Paul Spink
February 4, 2004
3:25 PM
Your expose’ of the PDL and PD movement show that it is simply the latest in a long line of those who want the “results” of discipleship (maturity of character) without having to do all the work necessary to achieve those results. Pragmatism definately has a large part in driving these programs. In this day and age of “instant” everything no one, it seems, wants to water and weed while the “crop” grows, but looks around for any and all ideas that might speed up the process. That cannot be done. But sinful man tries anyway. We want bigger and better no matter what the cost may be, and we want it now. This just causes many to take their eyes off the only One who can cause them to reach maturity and try the world’s ideas and methods. It is chilling to see Biblical Prophecy fulfilled before our very eyes, The great falling away before the Rapture of the Church. And it seems to be just the opposite to so many. The god of this age is able to make himself look like an angel of light and it appears that he is doing a good job in this last time. It also shows a glaring weakness in the teaching that has been going on in our churches in the past thirty or fourty years as so few of those so taught are able to discern the truth about these “fads” and fall for them. May we that have not been fooled, continue to examine ourselves and our teaching so that we do not fall for one of these “fads”, instead of continually being absorbed in pointing out the errors that others have made.
13. Kathy
February 6, 2004
11:45 PM
This really bothers me. Thank you for pointing it out. When I was a new Christian I would see that an author used a Scripture I had read in the Bible in a way that seemed odd to me. I concluded that Scripture must not be like ordinary works…it must be fair game for investing with new meanings.
What else are young people to assume when countless extremely popular, highly touted books set this example before them?
I am so annoyed by it!
Preach on…
14.
February 10, 2004
6:49 PM
I believe that this book will go a long way to encouraging faith and growth. Friend, you seem a little arrogant in your quickness to criticize this book. Is it possible that you are a bit envious of a book that God is using to bless and help so many? You may say, “No! Of course not! I am standing for the truth!” But are you? Please be honest.
Matt
15. Christine
February 11, 2004
10:18 AM
Well, I totally agree with Tim. The opening claim of this book is that “this is not a self-help book”. But it is. It is a better written “self-help” book. But again, we’ve missed the gospel. Working in a Christian bookstore for years, I’ve been through the WWJD thing, the Jabez thing, the pocket coin thing, the trendy worship music thing, and etc. I can get through this “thing” too! No doubt that there has been many reassuring “results” (I use this word with hessitation) from this book. However, I long to see the day when people flock to read MacArthur’s “Hard To Believe”, Packer’s “Knowing God”, Piper’s “Pleasures of God” and other God-centered writings like this (I know, it is hard to stay focused when the subject is “not about us”).
16. Brett
February 13, 2004
1:04 AM
Hi Tim,
I just referred to your comments on ‘Purpose Driven Life’. I am struggling to finish the book myself as I feel I am in the ‘wilderness’ reading it. I find it very repetitious, but I guess he had to stretch it to ‘40’ chapters.
The reason for my email is that our local Baptists Church in Sydney is about to adopt the ‘40 Days of Purpose’. I am very cautious of Rick Warren and all the others who have adopted the ‘Church Growth Movement’ and I always scratch my head to try to understand why so many pastors travel to the USA to find out what the next ‘new thing’ in how to do church. I agree in what you said that we need to be Spirit-led by God’s ways and not ‘purpose-driven’ by man’s way.
I want to know if you have any feedback on the ‘40 Days of Purpose’ and if the churches who register are then now under the control of Rick Warren. My concern is that once we go down this track, it is only a matter of time that the next man-made ‘purpose-driven’ pragmatic roadshow will be adopted by our Church. What role does the Holy Spirit play?
Any feedback would be appreciated. God Bless!
17. Blake
February 14, 2004
5:13 PM
I was encouraged to find this site. Not only was the extensive critical reading useful, but the many subsequent comments have affirmed my suspicions of the PD phenomenon. As many have noted, Warren’s intentions are most likely honorable insofar as he wishes to reach the “emerging” postmodern generation (which is at least a good 50 years old; glad to see the church is “up-to-date”).
Some have commented on the resulting marginalization of those (such as myself) who endeavor to question the PD program. This has indeed been my experience.
One of my biggest concerns (among many) is that the language of “purpose” not only suggests end-result and finality, but is also very implosive and, to an extent, self-centered. It would then seem to me that, far from being relevant to a postmodern world, the book suffers from the language of modernity which has far-too long tarnished the message of the selflessness of the gospel. What’s more, I am also concerned that the self-centeredness (both of the individual and of the church as a whole) is perhaps the worst state the church could be in in the midst of an increasingly frightening global political situation.
Thank you to the author of this site and to everyone who has responded with compassion and concern. If anyone has any suggestions for related links, I would definitely be interested.
Peace
18. Marc
February 15, 2004
2:08 PM
I believe Rick Warren is a good honest man but judging from what I’ve heard about the book, both its negatives and its positives, I don’t think any church should do a serious study of this book. I think pastors should stick to teaching the infallible Word of God, only.
No doubt, its had a very positive effect on many Christians but I have taken a look at the book and it is very soft, it does not potray the hard truth, especially with its uses of the most idiomatic translations in existance. Im saddened that my church is going to embark on a study of this book, I’d rather litsen to a sermon on the purpose of life straight from the Word of God, which is to “press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.” (Phil. 3:14)
God bless, Marc (14 years old)
19. Kent McElroy
February 18, 2004
2:35 PM
I am gratified and relieved to find that others share my concern about the “fast and loose” handling of God’s Word by Rick Warren and all those who “prefer” such paraphrases as The Message and The New Century Version of the Bible.
I am curious if any others out there have noticed (on p. 88 of The Purpose Driven Life) Rick Warren’s preferred rendering of Ephesians 4:6, from the New Century Version: “The Bible says, ‘He rules everything and is everywhere and is in everything.’ ” Without qualifying nor contextualizing it, Rick Warren is unwittingly supporting PANTHEISM!
20. John
February 25, 2004
11:17 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with those who’ve said the word of God should be preached from the pulpit, not any books. Currently my church is going through this book. It’s talked about as if it’s the Bible. The few times I’ve voiced my opinions about this book to fellow church members, I’ve been lectured about being judgemental, and told how much this book can change my life. Funny thing, there used to be a time when God was looked to as our life-changer. Thanks so much time for addressing the issues with this book. I feel like Elijah felt when he fled from Jezebel, thinking he alone was left of those who hadn’t bowed their knee. Glad to see I’m not alone.
21. JB
February 27, 2004
8:14 AM
Thank you, thank you! It is refreshing to know that there are others out there who aren’t just following the latest best seller. My husband and I, and a few others find ourselves examining the book with the Bible in hand. Something that we’ve found very few people do. Our pastor is even presenting the book as a church-wide study at our church. This wouldn’t be so sad, but in a meeting where my husband asked the pastor what he thought of the book, our pastor said “I’ve not read it, but a good friend said it was a good book. I respect his opinion and that’s why we are doing it.” Now, I don’t mind saying…that is driven not led. I can’t help feel that this is more about church growth and not about being led by the Spirit. Even reading Rick Warren’s own opinions on giving autographs to Castro, and reveiws that say I’d read this book over and over and over daily. Well, I thought that was what we were to do with the Bible. What is happening here is more people are being drawn unto another author and not the Author and Creator of the Universe. “Yea, hath God said?” Was enough for Eve to be tempted because she had personal gain in what she was seeking and not all glory and honor to God’s truest purposes and plans for life.
22. Shelley
February 27, 2004
8:53 AM
We recieved the following email yesterday from the Saddleback’s National Campaign Director in response to a query (at the bottom of the post) concerning their policy of welcoming Mormons to partake in their pastor-training programs, which was mentioned in the 7/21/03 USA Today article linked from their PDL sight. How about the perspective of 2nd John? This should make every believer’s hair stand on end…
——- Original Message ——- From: 40days@purposedriven.com To: michael@purposedriven.com; followinghim@verizon.net Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:55 AM Subject: RE: pastor-training programs
Hi Randy!
I fear you’re perhaps approaching this quote from a perspective, Bro. Of course Rick understands and acknowledges that Mormons are non-Christian Cultists. But he IS NOT implying here that we are embracing their eroneous doctrine when we welcome these other religious leaders to our conference, as you state in your question, “…as if they’re another Christian denomination”. That would be an unsubstaniated leap. I can certainly see how you might come to interpret this from the text of the quote, but allow me to allay your concerns by providing you with my perspective on what I believe Rick is saying in this article: He’s saying, in my opinion, that we’re going to be completely open and welcome graciously any non-Christian Cult leadership team to attend any of our PDC events. These PDC events provide a wonderful forum for Christian Churches of any denomination as well as non-Christian cults to join us for a presentation of the Biblical model for the Church. We are not endorsing these cults by allowing them to participate. Rather, we are building bridges and fostering dialogue about these biblical principles…that may in fact not only expose them to the truth, but they may even be persuaded by the Holy Spirit to respond to the truth. Furthermore, the PDC conf. isn’t the appropriate forum to debate doctrine with non-Christian Cults. The prevailing wisdom by those who mininter to the cults, such as the Christian Research Institute and think tanks like George Barna, is that one on one, relational evangelism is the most effective approach to winning cultist to the “real” Jesus Christ. I hope this has shed some light on this for you Bro. Blessings!
Marty Cutrone National Campaign Dir.
PS I happen to know that a “New Age Church” up in Oregon implemented the 40 Days of Purpose this last fall…and I absolutely applaud this. I hope and pray their people read and heard the truth, and come to a saving knowledge of Jesus. To have discovered this and banned them from participation, would have been a travesty and done nothing but create ill will, and not given the Holy Spirit an opportunity to impact hearts. My opinion…
——-Original Message——- From: followinghim@verizon.net [mailto:followinghim@verizon.net] Posted At: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 7:00 AM Posted To: Info@PurposeDriven.com Conversation: pastor-training programs Subject: pastor-training programs
Hello,
I have a question concerning the following quote from the USA Today article on Rick Warren last July:
Warren is part of the ultra-conservative Southern Baptist Convention, and all his senior staff sign on to the SBC’s doctrines, such as the literal and infallible Bible and exclusion of women as senior pastors. Yet Warren’s pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women.
“I’m not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won’t try to change other denominations. Why be divisive?” he asks, citing as his model Billy Graham, “a statesman for Christ ministering across barriers.”
Is this correct that Mormons are welcome to partake in training as if they were another Christian denomination? Has Pastor Warren made any comments on these statements elsewhere? The authority of the Book of Mormon in the LDS church is hardly a ‘non-essential’.
Thank you for your time,
Randy Childs
23. wenifred bernabat
February 29, 2004
12:21 AM
reading the book, i changed.
24. wenifred bernabat
February 29, 2004
12:22 AM
reading the book, i changed.
25. Matt
February 29, 2004
7:17 PM
Wow! I ran across this website and I am totally suprised. I see that comments about selfishness, pragmatism, church fads, loose interpretations, etc. Rick is a Godly man and his PDL model has been succesful at bringing thousands of people to Christ around the world. It is easy to attack someone when they are in the public view like Rick is. I have attended Saddlback for 10 years and has seen this so called “fad” grow from Saddleback to thousands of churches worldwide…successfully. BTW, Rick has used this so called “fad” for 20 years. I have met with PDL pastors who have had reservations, which in the end were unwarranted. I do not think the PD is the only way and I always look at Saddleback under the microscope for problems and I have yet to find one major one. Rick hates the spotlight and uses the church to spread the Gospel. Orange County is infamous for self-centered money hungry residents. I personally seen many friends, relatives, and pastors grow spiritully like no where else. Rick uses many translations because he wants God’s words to come alive to the believer and non-believer. I can go on on about how I have seen the Saddleback Valley change because of PD.
On the other hand I can see how people may question his focus on life application versus teaching verse by verse. People that are looking more for verse by verse teaching might get bored with just going to Saddleback. At times I have felt that way…but that is why there is a huge push on small groups. There are thousands of ministries and small groups at saddleback. My wife consulted at Saddleback last year and I was interested to find out about the inner workings of Saddleback and PD. I can tell you everything boils down to spreading the word of Christ through the Church and growing current believers. Every single dollar Rick and PD makes goes back to God’s Kingdom. I have seen Rick’s house and know many people that work at PD and Saddleback…every dollar goes back to the Church. PD is a model for a Church and for a person’s life. The past month Rick has been away and has not preached and can I tell you that the church’s attendance was at its highest since 9/11. We had over 400 come to Christ. It’s not abt Rick or PD…its abt Christ.
This next year Saddleback is focusing on Africa. Just wait till you see the impact on the continent of Africa. Each small group is going to adopt a Church through many resources to try and help struggling Africa.
You can be critical as much as you want but actions speak louder than words. Please check your hearts before attacking Rick and PD…because tens of thousands are going to heaven because of the love of Saddleback and PD.
I ask that everyone of you critics come to Saddleback and see the literally thousands of lives that have been and are being changed. There is such a fire for God at Saddleback. I have seen at least 10 friends from the past who were all about themselves and had major problems…sex addiction, drugs, adultry, alcholism, workaholics,etc…become believers and now even work at Saddleback or lead ministries. Evangelism and spiritual maturity at it’s best.
Commense with the complaints with bible versions and scriptual references. Remember, one of the biggest problems with attracting non-believers is sharing Christ so they can understand. Mature Christians who know the Bible many times push away non-believers with scripture quotes and references that just confuse the seeker. It is impossible to mention every aspect of Christianity in a readable book so that it might make the Christian life easier to understand.
God Bless
26. Shelley
February 29, 2004
9:29 PM
That still doesn’t explain why he allows Mormon leadership to attend his church growth conferences. Does MacDonalds’ train Burger King’s managers? Does Pepsi train Coco-Cola’s sales department?
27. Derin
March 1, 2004
4:14 PM
Hi There,
Question for those critical of PDL: Have any of you ever paraphrased or tried to put the Bible in your own words to help a child, non-Christian, or new Christian understand it better? I know I have, and so therefore am I guilty of the same “mishandling” of the Scripture as Rick Warren? Aren’t we all?
Technically, aren’t we all dealing with paraphrases and imperfect translations of God’s Word? We are not all literate in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, but does that limit the Holy Spirit from being able to use things we CAN understand?
PDL is not the “end all, be all”, it is simply a tool to help anchor Christians to the basics of our faith. Do any of us have a problem with advocating greater levels of worship, true fellowship, discipleship, ministry, and evangelism? Could this PDL thing simply be the current movement of the Holy Spirit that God is using to bring people to Himself? How long will it be around? I have no idea, but I’d rather be found catching the waves of the Spirit than standing on the shore trying to stop them.
God and His eternal Word do not change. Culture and ways of communicating it do. Is it too far fetched to believe that God can use different tools at different times in history to bring people to Himself? Didn’t Paul say that he desired to become “all things to all people so that he might possibly save some?” I know that I so often limit the Holy Spirit of God in my own life because of my own “boxed in thinking”. May God deliver us from our “boxes” and let the Holy Spirit have full control of our lives.
P.S. Remember that it was the “religious” people of Jesus’ day that couldn’t stand Him and were instrumental in having Him put to death. God deliver us from “religion” and set us free to be in relationship with You!
28. Shelley
March 1, 2004
4:47 PM
Derin,
As a Free Methodist pastor, you have to agree to the following:
Our leaders may not lead the church in ways which detract or divert from our mission.
And…
We may not live in violation of the Scriptures.
In allowing Mormon leadership to partake in his pastor-training seminars, Rick Warren is violating 2 John v.9-11. In promoting his material in your church, you grant him a tacit position of leadership. The ‘because it works’ argument is pragmatic and may lead compromising your principles.
How far is too far?
29. ScottyMac
March 1, 2004
9:32 PM
I would not agree that “one of the biggest problems” we face in attracting non-believers is trying to be understandable in sharing Christ. The whole premise of trying to attract unbelievers at all is suspect, and difficult to defend from a Biblical perspective. Jesus builds the church, and He will draw unto Himself. Our responsibility is to be faithful in being a witness and proclaiming Him, not create new ways to attract a crowd.
Over the years in ministry, I’ve heard many people defend the various trendy methodologies of how to “do” church, or how to live the Christian life. And in times past, I’ve heard people use the same analogy that we should not question what the Holy Spirit might be using at any particular moment. If whatever the ‘wave’ happens to be does not align with scripture, I would be hesitant to attribute it to the Holy Spriit.
For good reason Paul says in Eph 4:14, “As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine”. In Acts we read that Peter stands up and preaches to the crowd, using texts from Joel and the Psalms. Three thousand people were saved. It had nothing to do with Peter’s methodology. He was simply being faithful to proclaim the truth of Scripture, and the Lord used it to draw men unto Himself.
Waves come and go, and not everything that washes up on the shore is good. I would rather forego trying to figure out what the latest trend in church methodology is, and simply do what the Bible says to do. That way, God gets the glory, and we’re not tripping over ourselves promoting someone’s new book or trying to catch the next gospel wave.
My comments are not offered to offend anyone who believes otherwise. I can certainly appreciate the zeal expressed by some who evidently find much in the PD movement to promote. But we’ve spent billions of dollars in the last several decades chasing new trends in Christianity, and yet I find more to be concerned about in the Evangelical church at this time than any other time in my life.
The oft-quoted “this book changed my life” phrase used by so many about so many new and different books in recent times rings hollow without the benefit of seeing that change lived out over a lifetime. The next time someone says that to me, my response will be, “we shall see”.
In my 30 years of ministry, I’ve read a great many “new” Christian books. So far, I can only say “this book changed my life” in relationship to the Bible. I don’t expect that to change anytime soon.
30. Agnes
March 8, 2004
8:47 AM
The book to begin with? The Bible! Any moment and time we as Bible believing, Christ-centered Christian’s think we can’t stand alone on the Word of God, we cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit. How could we depart, add to, believe that man has a better plan than the One we are filled with? Anything above and beyond that we offer is saying that we are in need of something other than the Word of God to present. I find that there is not distinction in P.D.L. that gives Scripture in the way it was intended. Almost always Warren uses Scripture to suit what he’d like to say and uses it more often than not, out of context. That’s dangerous. And he also makes no distinction between who God is speaking to when he shares Scripture. Often he allows Scripture which is speaking to saved or unsaved to go unmentioned. He doesn’t clarify. That’s dangerous because most people will not check the Scripture out. As a Shepherd/Pastor it’s Warren responsibility to bring the message of the Word of God correctly. I certainly don’t know Warren’s heart, but I do know that God’s Word has a warning for those who bring the Word in a false way. Warren discusses this, sort of, on page 165. Though he fails to mention that the context of those passages are talking to false teachers not gossipers. Gossipers are not even mentioned. What the context here does speak on is evil speech and lying. My prayer for anyone who picks up and reads this book is that they have a Bible next to them. If your church is doing this study…study the Scripture’s that Warren so nicely mentions and tucks way in the back of the book. You have to go to the “Notes” section because all he gives in each chapter is a number reference to refer to. In a world saturated with untruth, watered down/added to Scritpure, allow God and the Word of God to be that which guides and directes you in the answers you seek. I don’t believe that Rick Warren could hand a copy of any of his books (which he mentions throughout this book) to Jesus and say he should use this to get through to the unsaved, unsure walking people in the world. I believe however that Jesus did clearly give us all we need and told us straight from the Father, God, that we need to stand alone on what we profess in believing in Jesus and on the Word of God. My purpose today and every day as a Bible-Believing Christ? To prepare and work for Jesus unto Eternity. “Seek first His Kingdon” Matthew 6:33 Jesus didn’t say come unto P.D.L., no sirree, He said to come unto Him and He’ll give you rest. I know I will never be at home here because here is not my home. Warren makes it sound like we are to get comfy and be at home here. If someone asks me how I like this book I’d have to say, I live my life before God alone and I must live my life before God alone. I am not accountable to the author of that book for the ways and plans he has “proven”. I’d have to recommend that someone who reads this book only does so in looking up every Scripture given and even more. Because Rick Warren quotes himself from his books quite often. Let’s all remember it’s impossible to please God and not walk in His ways. Warren believes that there was some tweaking and new additions to be added to the Word. That which includes polling the population of his church to see what they wanted. We can go back and find out that what was popular wasn’t always what was good for the people or right. We are always going to be doing either the will of God, satan, or self (man). There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that confirms Rick Warren’s statement on pg.166 where he thinks pastors have the job/task of keeping everyone happy. Rick Warren believes that the methods he’s come up with regarding P.D.L. living are for people who will be with this program or against. And, if your against it he’s found a way to put you in your place in his books. God blesses His Body and that is His Church. Rick Warren says that God blesses the churches that are unified. Find a church where everyone is completely in one accord and you will find a cult following. You will find that the church that is like that makes sure that anyone who questions something will be removed or leveled and will be labeled a rebel. I’d rather be a rebel with a cause for Christ and God’s Word than a rebel with a cause and mission for Rick Warren and P.D.L. You’ll know if your doing okay because you will have the peace that passes understanding. If it’s true that unified churches are only the ones blessed than how come Jesus said we’d be suffering for only this little while here until he returns. God’s blessings have nothing to do with the entirety of the church being unified. Not unless the unity is coming from living out the Word of God. We have peace that passes understanding and not the peace that is affored when functioning on P.D.L.’s plans and purposes. Don’t look to be a world class Christian. Look to be getting that crown that comes only because we’ve purposed and planned our walk for Christ according to the Word of God not the words of Rick Warren.
31. Tim
March 8, 2004
9:38 AM
Thanks for your comments, Agnes. I believe you are correct in many of your criticisms of The Purpose Driven Life.
I really do not think there is anything wrong with writing a book about discovering our purpose in life. What I take issue with is the way Warren wrote this book. Purpose is great, but only if it is supported properly from Scripture. That is where Warren did a poor job.
32. Ann
March 11, 2004
4:59 PM
Thank you so much..I have been battling upstream on this until I’m about to drown. If I hear “Purpose Driven” or “Passion” one more time … When did the uncompromised Word of the Living God become so old fashioned? My prayer is that people will get in the Word and be Berean Christians, instead of following a lot of the mislead leadership out there. I am still looking for a church that hasn’t fallen prey to the church growth-seeker friendly movement.I appreciate the insight you have provided, as I and some others continue to take hits because of our stand for the pure Word of God.
33. ann
March 12, 2004
7:28 AM
As an ending thought - - I believe I must add that if Rick Warren is a “godly” man, exactly what do we have to look forward to? Is he the standard? If so, we fall woefully short. Do I believe he loves Jesus? Probably. But I wonder where all the godly counsel and accountability is for those who are in leadership, those who are supposed to be our shepherds..are they leading us out of the abyss, or into it?
34.
March 15, 2004
1:31 AM
I am so glad I found you! I am teaching this PDL book during LEnt…and you’re right..I am feeling woefully pressed for some lives to change here…and to deliver those dutifully changed lives to my senior pastor. I have a difficult with his concept of God….like an old man with a clipboard and a chart..who writes down every good and bad thing we do….What is that about? Can this liberal Methodist make it through the wilderness to Easter??
35. Shelley
March 19, 2004
11:27 AM
This is excerpted from an excellent article by Bob Dewaay, ‘How PDL obscures the Gospel’ which can be found at http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue80.htm
American Pietism
On the surface, Warren promotes a very rigorous version of Christianity. He calls for total surrender as the way to the “deeper” life (Warren: 82, 83). He distinguishes between “worldly” and “world-class” Christians (Warren: 297). He tells his readers to do many things to make themselves better Christians. Most of it comes down to making choices and working harder at following Warren’s teachings. In his teaching both salvation and sanctification are synergistic (i.e. man and God working together). Thus our part boils down to methods for being more holy. Warren says, “Spiritual growth is a collaborative effort between you and the Holy Spirit” (Warren: 180). He says, “Decide to be a disciple” (Warren: 180). He says concerning salvation, “God will give you what you need if you just make a choice to live for him” (Warren: 58). Yet again Warren says, “Christlikeness is the result of making choices and depending on his Spirit to help you fulfill those choices” (Warren: 180).
Many Christians will see nothing wrong with this teaching because they have been taught similar material most of their lives; but it is not what the Bible teaches. According to the Bible, one begins and continues in the Christian faith by grace through faith—and that grace is solely of God. Synergism was a key issue at the Reformation, with the Roman Catholic Church promoting man and God working together (synergism) and the Reformers teaching God working alone (monergism). Salvation is a work of God, not a cooperative effort between God and man. Becoming Christlike is not a matter of making the right choices, but a matter of trusting God through the gracious means He has provided—but right choices result. God is sovereign both in salvation and sanctification: “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified” (Romans 8:29, 30). Paul asks, “Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?” (Galatians 3:3).
Pietism as expressed by Warren and many others looks for “secrets” to a deeper life through rigorous religious ritual or practices. He offers an easy way into the Christian life (make a choice and pray this little prayer) and then makes the teachings of Jesus about dying to self and carrying one’s cross a higher level of Christian living for the truly pious. Jesus made these things part of the terms of salvation (see the story of the rich young ruler). The practice of offering easy believism for salvation and then presenting the claims of Christ’s Lordship later as advancement in the Christian life, MacArthur calls “bait and switch” (MacArthur: 17). Warren commands his readers to do things God never asks of them. He makes things God commands (like repenting and believing the gospel) a choice, and things that are choices (like writing a journal Warren: 222, 308, 309) commands. Thus he perverts the gospel and the Christian life. Why should any of us submit to his man-made pietism? Rick Warren is not God’s lawgiver.
36. Susan
April 6, 2004
4:54 PM
I have been checking and have noticed that there have not been any new comments added for several weeks now. Is this because we have all grown weary of this whole topic; OR, is it because like me and my family and friends, we are in FULL BATTLE MODE with our armor on (Ephesians 6:10-18).
Those of you who have been through the battle of PDL’s 40 Days of Purpose in particular, PLEASE BE IN PRAYER FOR ALL OF US who are standing firm in wanting God’s Word adhered to and taught from the pulpit. (2Timothy 4:1-5) PDL modifications are being considered for each ministry within our church. This is not an easy time.
I am praying that this has been a “wake-up call” for all of us, in our walk with God each day. Let’s not take our relationship with God or the study of His Word for granted. What we have is precious! The unwatered down, Gospel(John 3:16-17; Ephesians 2:8-9) needs to be shared, so that others will get to enjoy that same relationship, too - for all eternity!
Stay submitted to God and in the Word! Romans 12:1&2
37. ScottyMac
April 6, 2004
5:59 PM
Thank you for your prayer request. I too have checked back a number of times to see little activity in posting on this subject. Occasionally I will search for more articles on the issue, and have found some good ones. More people seemed to be aware of the danger of this new methodology, but it is still a small minority. Until people are fully convinced in their hearts of the sufficiency of teaching God’s word, more will fall prey to the parade of deceptions that will come.
Seeing the success of this book, no doubt others will follow with another fad and methodology. I’d be surprised if Rick Warren isn’t already writing a sequel. As I talk with people about this issue, my heart is to warn them of any man or methodology that seeks to establish themselves or their methods as a way to God. Our High Priest is Jesus. We need no other.
The church of the past 50 years has become very accustomed to following self-proclaimed leaders. We often esteem too highly the Dobsons, Swindolls, Colsons, and Warrens of our time. A good leader will lead you to the cross, and won’t continue to stand in the way once you’re there. Man, I want Jesus. I want to be taught the word, not about the machinations of man.
I recently received an email from someone who had just gone through the 40 Days of Purpose at their church. In his excitment he proclaimed “now if we can only be diligent to practices the 5 purposes we learned, we’ll see how God can move in our church”. Whoa…that sounds like old covenant to me. God isn’t looking to see how well we do in practicing Warren’s five purposes so He can move in our churches. Paul says in I Corinthians 1 that man in his wisdom did not come to know God. Why is it that men keep trying to devise ways to know God? What is it in the church that keeps people searching for a new way to be ‘spiritual’? Why do we feel the need for ‘another’ high priest?
So many questions…in the meantime, we need to pray for all the churches like Susan’s that are diverging from the Word of God.
38. Rick
April 8, 2004
11:18 AM
Two things really concerned me about Mr. Warrens book; #1 The application of Ez 3:18 where he extrapolates that Christians are to held personnaly responsible for the lost soul of another. “Save one more for Jesus” and #2 Out of a church 1800, I felt like I was the only one who had concerns about this book and Mr. Warrens slice and dice of scripture. It is such a relief to hear of others who put our Lord and His word first.
39. friend
April 8, 2004
12:00 PM
The following letter was sent by a deacon to church leaders only. The response has been vindictive. Please pray for us (names and places edited out).
To our leaders,
Here are some post 40 Days thoughts to consider, especially in light of Pastor’s message on Sunday. I submit these with prayer and after much thought.
It has been some time since The 40 Days Of Purpose entered into our plans. Some in the church have been Berean-like and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so and some have not. I scold myself for not having done this years ago when I was first introduced to Rick Warren’s ideas.
After reading and listening [on cd] to the PDL book cover to cover twice and studying the introduction and the first seven chapters line by line and verse by verse, I was brought back to the days when I first trusted the Lord as my Savior and was discipled by my spiritual father. He taught me to study the Word of God verse by verse, chapter by chapter, and book by book, so that I would get the big picture and the little ones without being led astray by a verse out of context or interpreted wrongly. However, with Rick Warren, I find a man who often uses the Word of God to confirm his ideas in the same way that cultists do, out of context, wrongly interpreted, or with a poor Bible translation. This is the kind of teacher that my spiritual father taught me to avoid!!!
Refer to: http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcAnalysis.htm
The above web page is the most insightful, thorough, intelligent, and Biblical critique of PDL I have found. The author’s conclusion begins with the following paragraph.
“The Purpose-Driven® Life may contain some helpful, Biblical truths, but it cannot be trusted to lead a believer on a spiritual journey that is completely true and faithful to the Word and will of God. Why? Because Warren often misinterprets Scripture to his own advantage, conjoins untrustworthy, humanistic psychological principles with Biblical truths, minimizes the importance of sound doctrine, deems holiness and biblical separation as less important than love and unity, refers to enemies of the faith as positive contributors to one’s spiritual journey and promotes his entire Purpose-Driven® program. For these and other reasons, believers cannot trust The Purpose-Driven® Life and churches should refrain from participating in the 40 Days of Purpose campaigns.”
In a spirit of love, we should be careful about forcing programs upon our church members without their complete cooperation. It is sad to hear that some of our members have gotten involved with this program in a spirit of “fear”.
I remember the early days of the church [when it met at] the Community Center where we studied the Word of God and my family was pleased to join with a Bible preaching minister. However, today, I see books other than the Word of God leading the way. I see a church being led not by the Word of Truth but by the guidance of a man named Rick Warren. I see a church where many members do not carry a Bible or use it (Acts 17:11). I see a church where the feelings and spirit of a number of Christians have been hurt or crushed in deference to a “program” (get with the program now!). I see a church where leaders have left or stepped down when we have a dire need for leadership. I see a church where numbers and “reaching the lost” programs take priority over (Act 2:42) … continuing steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine, and in fellowship and in the breaking of the loaves, and in prayers.
As a Christian, I can accept different preferences, likes and dislikes, but in Christ I cannot accept extra-Biblical ideas and methods in place of Scriptural principles and instruction. God says that (2Ti 3:16,17) All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work. In other words, the Word of God is solely sufficient to equip us as Christians. Paul instructed Timothy to (2Ti 4:2) preach the Word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine. Paul did not exhort Timothy to emphasize great music and feel-good messages. Lately, our church sounds more like “join a small group”, “read today’s PDL chapter”, “stick with the program”, “testify to PDL’s blessings”, and “rah-rah-rah”. The last few weeks, I have been reading and listening to McArthur, Sproul, and others preach the Word of God. It has been refreshing. I desire 2Ti 4:2 for our church. It sounds old-fashioned but it is Scriptural.
There is a great article in World Magazine about a new movement in the Church today.
http://worldmag.com/world/issue/04-10-04/national_4.asp
This new movement involves Christians who are turned off by the pragmatic thinking and watered-down preaching of many boomer churches. The main themes of this movement include applying the Word of God with strong authenticity to real life and real problems with real community where people connect to one another with deep interpersonal relationships, not artificially created two hour weekly relationships.
It may not be a coincidence (I really don’t believe in coincidences) that God is raising up nearby a new Bible centered Gospel preaching church plant. It is being supported by a number of fundamental churches around the country. In a recent newsletter, this new church announced that it had 62 in attendance (32 local visitors) in their first Sunday morning service with two people trusting Christ as Savior. PTL.
Not to be so down on PDL, the 40 Days has been a great benefit to me indirectly. It has re-awakened in me a desire to study the Word of God in context and a commitment to prayer. After seeing the Word so disrespected by an author, I have been motivated to rightly divide the Word of Truth and to pray that we would all be like the Bereans (Acts 17:11). So with the Word, I am better able to “fight” for the Word of God and against the words of men.
Finally, in the last few months, beyond the increase in attendance and other spiritual blessings, we have seen for the first time in my memory, major disagreements about the direction of our church among the congregation. Rick Warren states that this is to be expected. I say that it should not be. On Sunday, Pastor said that we should not put on the brakes. I say that we must turn the steering wheel to the “right” to the Word of God. Steering by Rick Warren is bound to result in a church that glorifies ourselves and our accomplishments instead of God.
Respectfully submitted in Christ, (name)
40. Shari
April 9, 2004
8:36 AM
Someone has suggested we have become “weary” of this topic (PDL) due to the lack of new postings recently. I too, have been checking this site to see what others are saying on this subject. To say I am weary or wary of “40 days” is an enormous understatement. My church (Mennonite) is getting ready to begin “40 days” but the pre-hype makes it feel as though we’ve been in it for too long already. There are two signs advertising outside and several inside the church. When you walk into our church you are greeted with a big 8’ round sign with a large 40 on it behind a table with all the 40 days paraphanalia. It seems to me that anything requiring this much pre-hype and advertising in a church obviously cannot stand on its own merrits.
41. john omahen
April 9, 2004
2:59 PM
This is in response to those who say that Rick has led thousands to Christ. A few basic facts:
Sorry but I do not see a large number of changed lives. I have been blessed to work with both large (larger than Saddleback) and small ministries in my career and I am always concerned when I hear someone says that thousands of lives have been changed in this Rancho Santa Margarita-Mission Viejo- Foothill Ranch corridor. I attended Saddleback for 8 months and had no pre-conceived notion regarding Rick Warren’s teachings. I can unequivocally say that this area of Orange County has not changed for the gospel because of his teaching and preaching. As many people you can show me that supposedly changed their lives from drugs and sexual abuse I can show you similar ” Saddleback saved and baptized” people who “think” they changed and their actions make a Muslim look saved. A Mormon could go to their AA sponsored meetings, get clean attend church on Saturday or Sunday and think they are saved.
I can show you two churches in the same corridor with less than 150 members each, who in the past 5 years, can show you lives changed to the point where they have weathered tougher times. Let me define that. When Christ talked about bearing your cross he was not talking about having a bad day with your child or having to have your car fixed. He was talking about the 20 year veteran of the Sheriffs department who was passed over for promotion because he shared Christ with a three time loser. The Sheriff is gone from the Orange County Department but that “loser” ,though in prison for life, is tied into Prison Fellowship and running bible studies. Now a comparison to two couples in my neighborhood who proudly displayed Saddleback signs on their front lawns. Those two couples believed that they were saved but both couples went through a divorce and left our area. See they never heard in Rick’s sermons or learned in their Small Groups that they had to turn away from self and honor your partner. I watched them continually arrogant and prideful and not willing to change.
If you work at any store within 10 miles of Saddleback you hear people joke about the Saddleback Christians. Why? Because these “Saddleback saved” act no better if not worse than the non-believers in this region.
Remember Matthew 7. Do not judge hypocritically. The gate is narrow not wide. Watch out for false prophets. Good fruit stays good over time and through hard times. Head knowledge of Jesus does not get you into Heaven it is heart knowledge. Build your house on the rock and not the slippery sand of an unrepentant gospel. I have sat in Rick’s seminars and written both him and his staff regarding scriptural errors. No one is interested in truly engaging in a true discussion of biblical truth.
In His Service,
John O
42. Susan
April 11, 2004
1:22 PM
Re: Prayer for Susan’s church & others like it
A line was drawn on Wednesday night. The pastor said we needed to apologize for not supporting the 40 Days of Purpose Program; and that we either had to get behind him now or go. (We have been with this man since he started a plant church “teaching the Word of God” in his living room 14 years ago.)
Rick Warren or God’s Word?
Precious friends, little children in Sunday School, prayer time with hurting hearts.
CHURCH LEADERS - WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THIS SOME DAY.
Sadly, our family turned our letter of resignation and church keys in on Friday.
2Timothy 2:15 “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
2 Timothy 3:12-17 “12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecusion. 13 But evil men shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that knowing from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
Stay in the Word and in Prayer
GOD IS FAITHFUL!
43. Tim
April 11, 2004
1:46 PM
Wow, Susan, that is so sad. It always amazes me how divisive things like this program can be. Rather than allowing the Word of God to be the issue that divides us we allow the words of men to pull us apart. Those who do not support it are often labelled as dissenters and forced to leave. I am sorry to hear that this happened to you, yet admire your willingness to stand for what you believe is true.
I pray that God will bless you with a new church home where you can be fed with the pure gospel.
44. Anna
April 11, 2004
8:14 PM
Does anyone know of a Bible teaching church in Orange county? One that does not use Warren’s book or talk about it? I have visited at least 20 churches in Orange county after being a member of a fundamental “holiness” church for 30 yrs.
45. ScottyMac
April 12, 2004
10:20 PM
Susan’s experience is very disappointing, but not surprising. I’m not sure if the church is an ‘official’ PD church, but unity is stressed to such a degree that disagreement is not tolerated.
I recently came across this quote from A.W. Tozer regarding church division, “When confused sheep start over a cliff, the individual sheep can save himself only by separating from the flock. Perfect unity at such a time can only mean total destruction for all. The wise sheep to save his own hide disaffiliates.”
Powerful words written decades before PD was invented. All church unity is not of God.
Someone asked about a Bible-teaching church in Orange County. Most Calvary Chapels teach the word systematically in expositional style. Most would not fall for the PD thing, and some are preaching against it. Though viewed by some as “Charismatics” because they are not cessationists, they really have very little in common with most Pentecostal or Charismatic churches. I find their emphasis on the word most comforting. Even John MaCarthur has had favorable things to say about them.
46. David Wayne
April 14, 2004
11:12 AM
Tim,
Just wanted you to know I appreciated your review and I referenced it in a post on my blog -here’s the url -
http://jollyblogger.typepad.com/jollyblogger/2004/04/johncalvinric.html
Looks like you have stirred up a good brew of discussion - I have enjoyed reading the comments as much as the review.
I had a tangential thought on this matter the other day for which I would love to hear your reaction. The tangential thought is this - “is it wise to reduce our faith to a limited number of propositions?” Applying this to the whole PDL phenomenon I am saying that if we accept for the sake of argument that the five purposes have a biblical basis, is it wise to let those five purposes define the entirety of our faith and become the grid through which we interpret all of life and Scripture.
Where this tangent came from was in reflecting on some things I had heard in seminary about J. Gresham Machen. Machen was the intellectual leader of the fundamentalists during the fundamentalist/modernist controversy, yet he was never fully on board with his fellow fundamentalists. He didn’t like the idea of reducing the faith to a set of 5, 7, or 10 fundamentals. This wasn’t a broad enough definition of his beliefs. He affirmed the Westminster Confession. I would take this a step further and say that, though I subscribe to the Westminster Confession, it is insufficient to describe what I believe. Though I believe it is accurate where it speaks, it doesn’t summarize all biblical truth.
So, I am wondering if we don’t lose something when we reduce our faith to five purposes, 7 fundamentals, or even 5 points (of Calvinism). While we can affirm these things as true, they ought not to be seen as the totality of what we believe. Our error is not in affirming those things, our error is in acting as if the big 5 or 7 or whatever sum up all we believe.
Thanks for giving me space to write.
David
47. ScottyMac
April 14, 2004
3:40 PM
I like David’s “tangential” thoughts. I’ve wondered too why we tend to principalize our beliefs in neat little systems to follow. Is there something in our fallen nature that strives to live under the law? I wonder if many Christians do not find grace “sufficient”, and devise clever works to achieve righteousness.
48. Susan
April 14, 2004
11:55 PM
Hi Tim!
It’s me, Susan. Thank you for your prayers. I just wanted to let you all know that we attended our new church again tonight. Another family from our former church also came to hear the Word of God taught. We stayed and enjoyed a warm time of fellowship with various people visiting from out of state; total strangers, yet brothers and sisters in Christ. It was wonderful!
Through the years, many tracts have been passed out and many prayers have been prayed for our neighborhood. God knew just when to provide this plant church, not five minutes away from our home. Awesome!
God is FAITHFUL!
Just wanted to share the PRAISE!
“But we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose.” Romans 8:28
49. Tim
April 15, 2004
2:29 PM
Thanks for sharing that praise, Susan. I have been praying for your family and I’m sure others who have read this have too! It is awesome to see God answering prayer.
50. Bookman
April 17, 2004
8:12 AM
When you say that the 40 day purpose driven program was sprung on your church,I know what you mean,thats the way it was done in our church,and I believe this is the way it is done in most churchs,the general church membership is kept in the dark until the last possible moment,the reason for this is so that those implementing thse changes can utilize the element of surprise to the fullest and if possible give no one in the church who might disagree any time to think about it until after the vote,,when its too late.What happens is Rick Warren targets the church pastor first and converts him,the church pastor then gathers around him a “core” group,Warren then sends one of his “change agents” to hold a transition conference”in the area,the pastor then takes this “core group” to this conference,usually without the consent or knowledge of the church,,in our case without the knowledge of even the deakons board,they are then taught how to go back to their church and transition it to a Rick Warren type church.It doesnt always work,the Parkside Baptist church in Moncton N.B. recently went through this,the church is now virtually destroyed,the pastor just resigned and its possible the church will never recover,the Baptist church in Shediac N.B.,recntly did the program,it was a field of two churchs,it is now split,and the pastor is on part time because the remaining church cannot afford to pay him.Our church is presently undergoing this program,,and yes there are those of us who have said wait a minute,what about this or what about that,,and yes we have been marginalized and seen as the enemy,,standing in the way of Gods work and all that,and it may become necessary to go to another church,,this is a small community and there is no annonimity here,once you make your views known there no where to hide,,this could be fatal because the pastor and his core team are know reviewing material in which disenters are likened to wolves in sheeps clothing and the question is asked,,what would you do if you owned a flock of sheep and you saw a wolf amongst them,the answer is then given”you would shoot it”.So heres the problem what if those who are pointing to some sheep and saying they are wolves and need to be shot are actually the wolves in sheeps clothing themselves,,when the shooting starts a lot of sheep could go down and when the smoke clears the casualties could make the feud between the Hatfields and the Macoys seem like small potatoes,,if you dont hear from me,,I may be too busy dodging lead,,,or,,,someone may be skinning my kide to see if they shot a sheep or a wolf.
51. Shelley
April 17, 2004
9:25 AM
Bookman, you’ve nailed it. Here’s a recent thread at Pastors.com (a PDC/PDL support site) on ‘managing’ opposition in the church:
http://forums.pastors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=17566&STARTPAGE=1
(This post in particular stands out…)
You have to make a determination whether this person is one of the following:
The way you deal with them from there will be determined by which one they are.
You love and nurse the the wounded sheep back into health one on one.
You seperate the Goat from the rest of the sheep and don’t allow the Goat to butt heads and steal the food. Eventually without food the Goat will go to other pastures.
The Wolf…well, there’s only one thing to do with a wolf….shoot them. No sense in trying to stop a wolf from biting the sheep…if he is a wolf, you have to get rid of him.
Not making light of the situation either. I know this is real and it hurts, but you have to confront one on one and stop this from going any farther. By the way, your personal feelings can become a part of the correction as long as you don’t sin. Jesus had all the emotions and feelings that you have and he had some pretty classic responses to all three groups of people.
Lastly, remember that there are a lot more people that are waiting to be led than are causing trouble. Don’t spend so much time with the ones who are causing trouble that you let good people left without solid leadership.
Glen
It’s not about us…it’s a “God Thing”
I don’t think I get his remark about ‘goats stealing food from the sheep’. When members quietly approach their pastor about the lightweight teaching and their desire for more Bible, who is it that’s going hungry?? Also, his advice to ‘let your personal feelings become a part of the correction’ sounds too much like giving oneself permission to indulge the flesh (“Now’s my opportunity to tell them what I REALLY think of them!”).
52.
April 17, 2004
1:10 PM
Im not sure if this will go through because of the note saying not to submit more than one response but here goes,,,If anyone is interested in seeing where all this may be headed they need to look into such things as “Lectio Divina”,”centering prayer”,”renovare”,”contemplative prayer” and the people who are pushing them like”Richard Foster”,”Thomas Merton”,etc. Both Saddleback and Willow Creek are now infested with such teachings which are in reality an attempt to merge some of the teachings of Buddism with Christianity
53. Charity
April 18, 2004
2:32 PM
Some of you may be interested in checking this site out….it is exactly what we are going thru with our church….I couldn’t believe how well the article fit our situation…
http://www.crmspokane.org/pastorletter.htm
54. ScottyMac
April 21, 2004
2:26 PM
I would be interested to find out more in regards to “centering prayer”, etc mentioned in the post above, especially as it relates to PD and CGM. I’ve compiled a page of links to various PD and CGM topics located at http://www.campwest.com/ministry.htm Information about others would be appreciated.
55. Tim
April 21, 2004
2:42 PM
Scotty - I think you need to concentrate some of your effort on The Purpose Driven Church. It seems that PDC was the book that “softened up” the churches, allowing PDL to flourish to such an extent. If PDC had not had such a huge impact in many churches I doubt PDL would have met with so much “success.”
56.
April 21, 2004
6:18 PM
Your right, Tim. I’d love to spend some more time researching that whole dimension of the PD system.
I’ve tended to think that it is somewhat recipricol, in that while the PD church has ‘soften up’ the churches, the PD Life has also introduced the PD church concept to many.
I’m aware of several churches who do not consider themselves PD, but have introduced their congregations to the “40 Days of Purpose”. I’ve talked with a couple of friends who have raved about PD Life, and were unaware of the existence of the whole system.
What a great (word used advisedly) marketing system going on with it. I wonder what would happen if an equal effort was exhibited by churches to rightly divide the word of God.
57. Bookman
April 22, 2004
12:19 PM
Here are a few sites on centering prayer,,,they may raise the hair on the back of your neck,http://www.innerexplorations.com/chmystext/ques2.htm and http://search.netscape.com/boomframe.jsp?query=c
58. Shelley
April 29, 2004
12:34 PM
How PDC, and other Church Growth Methods, deals w/ resisters:
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/4-purpose-resisters.htm
59. Susan
April 30, 2004
3:02 PM
I went to the article listed above Re: How PDC, and other CGM deals with resisters and was in tears throughout the reading. Been through it. I love and miss and pray for my “Church Family”.
Since being forced to leave, other folks have begun attending our new church, where THE BIBLE is taught - full time. (One lady attended our former church for 50 years. Her mom used to hold her on her lap while her mom taught Sunday School.) There are still others who are staying on at our former church.
For those of you who have been through this difficult experience - Question: Only the Holy Spirit and the Word can reveal the deception, but what can we do both within and outside the church to help our brothers and sisters in Christ. This is so arkward. Comments please?
BTW-ScottyMac, thank you for your comments and your new web page!
60. Charity
April 30, 2004
3:31 PM
Thanks Susan…we are going thru the same thing at our church….attended evangelistic meetings last week at a nother church… and what a refreshing time.. showing us what we are lacking in preaching and missing in fellowship thru all of this purpose driven process to change the church…now we have to make a decision…this church we attended last week… preaches the WORD from the BIBLE… we feel if we gradually wean away it may be easier but we have been advised that it won’t be..as I drove by our church last Sunday to attend this other one…my heart was torn…I felt I was betraying everyone by not attending my own.. it is a difficult decision and one that can only be made thru prayer and God’s guidance…thanks for sharing Susan…
61. bookman
April 30, 2004
4:34 PM
Thanks “Shelly”,I will check out that site,and yes Brett once a church takes the 40 day program it does tend to become controlled by Rick Warren,,in two ways,,first when implementing the program Warren advises them to take note of those who oppose his purpose driven program and depending on whether they are sheep or goats they arer to be either driven out of the church or shot”meaning destroyed”,,in some unspecified manner,,this means that the present church program is to be pared down using Warrens program and then Warrens “101”program is implemented and any future member must take Warrens “101” course and sign a covenant or they cannot be a church member,,,this gives Warren through his “101”course at least some say and control over who can be a member in most churchs who have taken his “purpose driven program”,so most “purpose driven churchs put on their “Rick Warren” glasses when deciding who can either presently be a member,,or who is eligable to join in the future,,,whatever happened to “if you believe with all your heart that Jesus is the Son of God,you may”
62. ScottyMac
May 1, 2004
8:41 PM
Just read the “Resistors” article…wow. That hurts just a wee bit. All too familiar.
63. Eric Kron
May 1, 2004
10:21 PM
If anyone is interested, two men at my church (one our pastor-teacher, the other a seminary-trained man) wrote a “short” review which is available at: http://www.hbc-boise.org/docs/pdl.htm There is also a PDF version available.
It deals with many of these same issues brought up in this review, while looking at a few other points and providing examples as to how ridiculous it is to think that God will always change your life in 40 days.
As the website (www.hbc-boise.org) indicates, feel free to pass along the review, if you see fit, but please pass it along in its entirety.
In Christ, Eric in Boise
64. John D. SUllivan
May 4, 2004
12:49 PM
I have not read this book, but may now. I found your conclussions to be utter nonesense and motivated by a narrow , fundametalist, almost fanatical view.
To say Mother Teresa and St John of the Cross should not be trusted is rediculous. We must remember the New Testament was writen by men, 70 to 150 years AFTER Crist’s death, by as many as 5 sources! It is not the word of God, but the Teachings of Christ as remembered by men. It is not the foundation of law, and should not be interpreted as such.
65. Tim
May 4, 2004
4:26 PM
John - To hold such a view is to deny what the Scripture claims for itself. The Bible claims to be the very Word of God and is so much more than just the words of men. Also, I think you will find that there are more than 5 authors in the New Testament.
66. bookman
May 4, 2004
5:02 PM
very strange John D.,because Jesus said”heaven and earth shall pass away,but my words shall not pass away”,,in order for you to be right Jesus would have to be wrong,,guess who I choose to believe is right??,,here is a good site,,I dont know if it is the same one you read or not Scotty,,http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/4-purpose-resisters.htm
67. Susan
May 4, 2004
8:35 PM
John, 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is given by inspiration “of God”. Inspiration means GOD BREATHED, not written by mere mortals; and all means ALL!
68. ScottyMac
May 4, 2004
9:09 PM
Eric, I read the article you referenced with great interest…good stuff. I believe one of the authors, Mike Hale, is a good friend from my past. I was not able to find an email address on the site. Can you provide one?
69. Jeri
May 5, 2004
1:37 AM
This article provides a good bit of detail in its critique of PDL http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue80.htm
70. Jeri
May 5, 2004
2:33 AM
And this from the perspective of the “emerging-church” movement… http://www.indwes.edu/tuesday/emerging.worship.characteristics.htm
71. Susan
May 5, 2004
12:53 PM
Charity, You have been on my heart and in my prayers. We love and miss our “family”; and it HURTS! But God does know and He is working in and through our prayers for them.
Eric, Thank you for yet another excellent article pointing out the infalibility of the Word of God, but not so - Rick Warren.
I keep coming back to the question, “How could men (pastors & deacons), who say they love God, get so entangled in this MESS?”. The warnings went out, but were ignored, time and time again.
The first thing that I noticed in the PDL article by Pastors Hale & Harris was this statement.
“As two pastors who love God’s people….”
I think I have found the answer to my question.
GOD IS FAITHFUL!
72.
May 5, 2004
7:08 PM
I have asked the same question during this past year…how could so many be decieved into this whole PD structure?
What a contrast between the shepherd who desires to nurture and feed God’s flock, and the pastor whose love is conditional upon how well you fit into his plans and purposes for the church. Stand in the way of a pastor just once and you’ll quickly determine whether or not he is a shepherd. You may just find he is really a CEO in disguise.
I found this ‘pro-PD’ web site some months back. Interesting to see how they place everyone in the fellowship of an emerging PD church into one of four boxes.
http://mintools.com/church-purpose6.htm
73. Shelley
May 6, 2004
9:37 AM
counterfeit trap - How alluring to offer something that has an illusion of being real but lacks substance. These are often the short cuts we take or the misinformed directions we embark on because they were the easier, more comfortable, and less inconvenient routes. — See 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; 2 Thessalonians 2:9
This is from the above mentioned minitools.com page. How ironic that it’s being used in defense of the PDC methodology!!
74. apreik
May 6, 2004
10:24 AM
Just reading through some of the comments… This isn’t really PDL/PDC related but more toward the people that suggest a pastor is in the wrong for staying a course.
There has