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Thursday February 19, 2009

Is Smoking Sinful?

Christians and Smoking

Years ago I was standing in the foyer of the church I attended at that time and a person who was new to the church came to me and, rather quietly, asked “What do you guys believe about smoking? Is it okay to smoke in this church?” I laughed a little, not because it was a stupid question but because the church had people from such a great diversity of backgrounds. We had heaps of ex-Catholics, a core of ex-Charismatics, a few long-time Baptists and so on. I told him I had no idea what the general consensus was but that I was sure that as long as he smoked outside no one would care too much. I was reminded of this a couple of days ago when a reader of the site asked if I’ve given much thought to the subject.

I know lots of Christians who smoke and it has never really caused me to examine the idea of a conflict between that action (or addiction) and their faith. But I know that for some people this is a significant stumbling block. They feel that the action of smoking reveals something about a person’s heart or even about his spiritual state.

Christianity Today’s Campus Life once published a small article that provides the usual arguments against smoking:

  • Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, so be careful what we put in our bodies.
  • Smoking is an addiction and Christians are to guard against addictions.
  • Smoking has many harmful effects and can often lead to other addictions.

These are all rational arguments. Another common argument we might add to the list is that God provides our finances and we are told to be diligent stewards of them. Lighting them on fire is not a God-honoring way of using his gifts.

All of these arguments are well and good, but they all have other sides to them. Yes, our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, but how much worse is it to put smoke (and all it carries with it) into our bodies than much of the food we eat or much of the air we breathe? I would say that there are far more Christians addicted to caffeine than there are to nicotine. Sure smoking has lots of harmful effects, but so does overeating or eating the wrong things. God provides us money, but how often do we use it to buy things we don’t really need? Is spending our money on McDonald’s really much better than spending it on cigarettes?

I guess the crux of the matter is this: is it sinful to smoke?

It seems to me that it is hard to sustain a consistent biblical argument which would conclude that smoking is always and ever sinful. I think it is difficult to bind another person’s conscience without resorting into some kind of inconsistency or legalism. I see the logic behind these arguments, but those same principles seem to fail when they are extended to the rest of the Christian life. There is part of me that feels I should say with certainty that smoking is sinful. But I don’t think I can do so in good conscience.

I actually quite like John Piper’s take on this one (though he does conclude that smoking is sinful). He says, “Habitually smoking cigarettes seems to say, ‘Life doesn’t matter as much as my pleasures do.’ And the fact that it is highly addictive should also encourage Christians to keep their distance.” So maybe there is a difference between the person who smokes two packs of cigarettes a day and the person who occasionally enjoys a fine cigar. Piper writes that in his church they do not focus specifically on smoking; instead, they have a higher standard. “We engage to abstain from all drugs, food, drink, and practices which bring unwarranted harm to the body or jeopardize our own or another’s faith.” Some might argue that this is a lowering of standard, but I’m inclined to believe that it actually raises the standard. It removes the focus from specific pet sins and widens the focus to a wider range of sins that we may be willing to tolerate. We should give thought to everything we do, everything we eat, everything we breathe in.

I have an intense dislike toward smoking. I dislike the smell of it and I have a special pet peeve toward seeing cigarette butts lying on the ground outside buildings. But I don’t presume to think that I can tell much about a person’s spiritual condition by the fact that he smokes. Nor do I find that I can (or would want to) generate the kind of argument from Scripture that would tell another person that smoking is absolutely forbidden. But when we look at the evidence of how smoking impacts the smoker’s health, how it impacts the health of others around him, how it encourages addiction and so on, it seems that it is something the Christian would be eager to avoid or overcome. Is it always and for all people sinful? I don’t know that I would go that far. Piper gets it right when he says “Don’t pick out a few individual named sins, but let your definition of sin be sweeping and pervasive so that it touches everything. And let your definition of holiness be the same. How you drink Coke, eat pizza, or exercise can all be sin issues, or not.”

So what do you think? Is smoking sinful? Or can it, like so many other things, be done for God’s glory?

Comments (104) »


1. Jason Chamberlain
February 19, 2009
10:01 AM

I like the way Piper puts it. As someone who once struggled with gluttony and laziness I tend to notice those who display a lack of self-control with their eating and exercise. I also was addicted to caffeine and have quit using it as a daily practice, though I will still sometimes have a cup of tea or a glass of sweet tea at a restaurant.

I find it amazing that so many think it is obvious that we should abstain from alcohol or nicotene, but they have no problem with being addicted to caffeine. That seems to be the drug of choice in many circles.

I have heard that MacArthur said about smoking, “It won’t send you to hell, but it will make you smell like you’ve been there.” That’s how I tend to look at it.


2. Reg W Schofield
February 19, 2009
10:08 AM

This is slippery slope argument for me . I don’t think one can be consistently biblical and make smoking a sin. Although I hate smoking and know for a fact it played a major factor in my mother getting cancer which took her life much too early . Plus even though I love Piper in most cases , I think he falls into the into the old Baptist tradition of making things sin that are based upon personal convictions apart from from what the bible clearly states. One could say it robs people of money that could be used for the kingdom but when I drive into our church parking lot on Sunday , I see many brand new suv’s and other types of cars that are secondary cars and one could argue that is one who is in love with his possessions. What about leisure time , does God think that’s sinful as well . Playing sports or going to to a Leafs game or whoever . I mean there has to be some careful measure when labeling something sin. Smoking is something that people should break away from solely for health reasons and but I could not with a clear consistent application of scripture label a smoker a unrepentant sinner without beginning to open up a Pandora’s box of problems . Oh and just so the Baptist know , my favorite preacher of the past Charles H Spurgeon liked his cigars and even used to drink ale .


3. Jacob
February 19, 2009
10:10 AM

I think whatever case you make for or against smoking has to work for alcohol too. If alcohol in moderation is not sinful, then I do not see how tobacco in moderation is. Certainly smoking a pack of cigarettes every day is not good for your health, and neither is drinking a six-pack of beer either. If enjoying a beer with friends on the weekend is ok, why wouldn’t enjoying a cigar or pipe tobacco in the same context be ok?

The argument from health does indeed call into question our eating habits, as well as our non-adult beverage consumption. Caffeine is a stimulant too, and eating fast food is not healthy either. Aristotle’s wisdom of “all things in moderation” seems to be the wisest course of action.


4. Joel Burdeaux
February 19, 2009
10:12 AM

I would hesitate to call it sin, but I wouldn’t hesitate to call being mastered by it a sin.

My wife could go out with friends and smoke if she wanted (not that she does), and would not experience any real problems.

But, if I have a cigarette, then for days afterward I find myself daydreaming about having another, and get just as cranky as I did when I was a 2-pack/day smoker.

So for me, my sinful lack of self-control in the past has made it very difficult to enjoy some of the freedoms others may enjoy, and I am under the conviction that for me, it is probably sin, if not just very unwise.

It’s really no different than drinking. Drunkenness is a sin. But I believe we are free in Christ to partake of drinks with discernment and with a constant awareness of 1 Cor. 10:31.


5. Michael
February 19, 2009
10:12 AM

This is an issue on which I have changed my mind in the past few years. I am currently in a work environment in which smoking is the least of the bad habits that my co-workers exhibit and so I’ve had to pick and choose my battles, and in the end, I can’t find any justification for telling people that smoking is sinful, just unhealthy.

The main problem is that the argument from 1 Corinthians 6:19 about the body being a temple of the holy spirit just simply doesn’t work. Paul was making a very specific point about sexual immorality. He likens the body to the Temple because it is a place in which God’s presence dwells, and God’s temple should not be defiled by sexual immorality (which it often was in Israel’s history). It is an argument very much rooted in its context. We do not know if Paul would have, given the opportunity, applied this argument to issues of health bodily well-being, but this application is entirely remote from this passage. To apply this passage to smoking is, I think, to stretch it beyond the limits of good exegesis.

I have come to see smoking as an indulgence that if enjoyed in moderation, is probably perfectly acceptable. I have even come to mildly enjoy the ambient smell of good pipe tobacco, though I still can’t stand cigarettes. Like anything, if it is done in excess, it becomes harmful and destructive, but a universal argument against smoking I just can no longer sustain.


6. Kevin
February 19, 2009
10:16 AM

Matthew 15:10-11 (ESV): And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

I don’t smoke, but I don’t see how smoking is any different than coffee or alcohol. It certainly can be abused by some and made to become a “god”, but I don’t think the God of the Bible is at all threatened by these things if they are not displacing him from his throne in a believer’s life. A true believer should not do these things in front of a weaker believer if it would harm the other person’s faith, but aside from that, I can’t see anywhere that specifically forbids all smoking/alcohol, etc…


7. Betsy Markman
February 19, 2009
10:19 AM

You’re a brave soul for taking this one on!

We Christians love our “pet sin lists” precisely because of what we can leave off of those lists. We grab a few obvious-looking (or smelling) ones with which we can assure ourselves that we are better than our neighbor, and then from our position of superiority we feel free to indulge in whatever sins didn’t make our list.

It’s gnats and camels (Matt. 23:23-24).

I was just reading something from Piper this morning that says, “The essence of sin is preferring anything to God.” Those of us who are honest will have to look at that standard, get off of our pedestals, and go stand with the smokers (no matter how the smoke makes us gag). Our pride and hypocrisy make our Lord gag (Rev. 3:16), and they’re pretty obnoxious to our smoking brother, too.

May God have mercy and free us from our Pharisaism!


8. Abigail
February 19, 2009
10:21 AM

Interesting post.

My initial reaction is that smoking may or may not be a sin. It depends on the person and the heart and the extent to which they are bound by it. Sounds like we’re on the same page.

And I think trying to evaluate everything we eat in light of an uber “healthy” standard which is somehow tied to greater godliness is a risky road to go down. It is a fairly common topic in mom’s circles and can be emphasized over and above things like, teaching children Scripture and caring for their souls.

Much of our society (and it has seeped into the church) has placed good “health” (i.e. don’t smoke, only eat organic or homegrown foods, etc) as an idol. And in the Christian community it comes under the guise of godliness (which it may be for some) but often turns to a kind of legalistic and perfectionistic way of living. And it allows for self-righteousness in relationship to those who aren’t eating as “healthy” or do things like drink caffeine.

It also creates a false sense of control, as though if we only eat healthy and protect our bodies from smoking we will necessarily have good health. God doesn’t make those guarantees.

Thanks for the thoughtful post.


9. Nick Kennicott
February 19, 2009
10:27 AM

“I cultivate my flowers, and I burn my weeds” (Charles H. Spurgeon).

I completely agree with Jacob — smoking a pack of cigarettes every day as opposed to 1 or 2 cigars or a pipe every now and then is very different.

It seems most simple, yet biblically faithful to me to say that if you NEED to smoke (get your fix), you’re being mastered by something other than Christ. If you are able to have a cigar and go weeks or months without another one, you’re not mastered by tobacco — you’re enjoying one of the gifts of God in this world.

Jared Wilson has a good article called “20 Ways to Smoke Cigars to the Glory of God” — http://searchwarp.com/swa386156.htm.


10. Padron
February 19, 2009
10:29 AM

Ok, I may be going out on a limb here…but, I am a pastor of a conservative church - and I enjoy a fine cigar every now and then. Typically around the new year, and in celebration of a major life event (like the birth of a child, successful adventure, etc.). What I do is simply buy a cigar, retreat to a secluded place, and smoke it while I pray. Probably sounds crazy to you, right? I have struggled with many of the same questions you bring up like: can I do this to the glory of God? For me, I can honestly answer yes. It usually takes me anywhere from 30-45 minutes to enjoy a good cigar, and I have had some of the sweetest times of prayer during those moments of praising and celebrating God’s faithfulness in my life.
Now, all that being said, I am acutely aware that other people may be completely against my practice of enjoying cigars. So, I never make it known to them. I keep my preferences to myself, not because I think that it is wrong, but because it might violate another person’s conscience.
So, I avoid becoming a stumbling block, avoid the addiction, avoid the excessive waste of money, avoid it becoming an idol of my heart, and at the same time do it to the glory of God. I suppose if at any time it became a violation of my conscience, I should follow the attitude that Spurgeon did when seeing a billboard reading “Smoke the cigar that Spurgeon smokes.” He immediately gave it up after that.


11. Ray
February 19, 2009
10:33 AM

I agree with Michael’s comment. At the risk of sounding invective, the argument made by Campus Life:

o Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, so be careful what we put in our bodies.

is not reasonable, but is stripping Paul’s words from their context. I used to use this same argument when condemning Christians for drinking any amount of alcohol, smoking, earrings, etc… That is, until I started to read the Bible as opposed to hit and run ‘hermeneutics’.

Paul makes it perfectly clear that there is only one kind of sin against the body:

Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
God Bless


12. Van H. Edwards
February 19, 2009
10:35 AM

Whenever smoking comes up in the context of whether it is sin or not, I always refer to Spurgeon and his declaration of “smoking a cigar to the glory of God.” You can read the whole thing here: http://www.spurgeon.org/misc/cigars.htm


13. Rich Owen
February 19, 2009
10:39 AM

It’s a bit of a red herring isn’t it? Our bodies are decaying anyway. We need resurrection bodies, not just slightly more functional bodies.

I’m not suggesting we should have a reckless disregard for our bodies - the human body is amazing - in Christ the fullness of God dwells in bodily form, he took on our flesh - his incarnation bestows the highest dignity to the human body but Christ’s body was subject to decay and the wicked inflictions of sinful humans, but He resurrecton body cannot decay or be broken by sin.

A gospel view of food, drink, exercise, surgary, smoking etc would be respectful of the body, not reckless, but mindful of it’s limits and our ultimate physical hope of a resurrection body in the new creation. Our works will not bring us perfect bodies, but Christ’s will, and we have to wait for that!

How we use our liberty is probably the issue, and where sin is manifested by our eating, drinking and smoking or whatever. Eating food sacrificed to idols isn’t sinful, but if we eat it in front of a weaker brother as Paul puts it, who might struggle with our liberty, we cause them to stumble, show our lack of love and thoughtless selfishness. Our liberty should be informed by our christian context. If all our brothers and sister enjoy a cigar, then hey, give me a cigar. If I’m the only one who likes a cigar, then best not smoke.


14. Tom Meier
February 19, 2009
10:41 AM

Nobody busted out 1 Cor 6:12, 8:13 and 10:13?

“All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.”

“Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.”

“All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify.”

The greater issue is, “is my smoking making others stumble?” If so, you recognize it yet dismiss it, then you’re sinning.

Tom (former smoker!)


15. Brian @ voiceofthesheep
February 19, 2009
10:44 AM

Smoking is no more or less sinful than any other vice, but comparing it to things such as bad eating habits doesn’t make it any more ok either. If smoking is ultimately not a sin, I have no problem with someone engaging in that activity…just don’t make me do it too by forcing me to breath in your second-hand smoke-filled air.

For years I have thought of proposing and designing a head bubble that smokers would be required to wear so that their smoke stays with them and them alone when they exhale. I imagine that even they would not be able to tolerate their own air if it stayed just with them. I am also pretty sure that others would like to require me to wear something similar (but not over my head) every time I eat chili!

While I cannot conclude that smoking in and of itself is a sin, I certainly CAN conclude that I should not be forced to partake of it just because someone else is doing it. If you are going to smoke…do us non-smokers a favor, and do it at home, away from children and others who also do not want to smoke (or else buy one of my head bubbles for smokers).


16. Brance
February 19, 2009
10:45 AM

I actually agree with many of the commenters here, that enjoying a cigar or a pipe occasionally doesn’t seem sinful to me. Cigarettes I just don’t get though. At least a cigar or a pipe actually smell good. :-)

But in response to this paragraph…

“All of these arguments are well and good, but they all have other sides to them. Yes, our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, but how much worse is it to put smoke (and all it carries with it) into our bodies than much of the food we eat or much of the air we breathe? I would say that there are far more Christians addicted to caffeine than there are to nicotine. Sure smoking has lots of harmful effects, but so does overeating or eating the wrong things. God provides us money, but how often do we use it to buy things we don’t really need? Is spending our money on McDonald’s really much better than spending it on cigarettes?”

No, it’s not any better. Eating fast food as a way of life, or even regularly, eating food that is bad for you, drinking alcohol excessively (small quantities, especially of wine, is actually good for you), and consuming excessive amounts of caffeine (some reports say it is good for you in small amounts), are all just as sinful as smoking (has there ever been a medical report that said smoking in moderation had health benefits?). Just because we accept gluttony, bad eating habits, etc. doesn’t make them any less sinful, and doesn’t make an excuse for other offenses against the body.


17. noisedoctor
February 19, 2009
10:46 AM

I think Joel just touched on something there: whether it’s wise to smoke.

I believe that this is one of many areas in life where we do much better to, instead of asking “Is it sin/Is it wrong/etc.” ask the question “Is it WISE to smoke?” Arguing whether it’s right or wrong (ie. sin or not sin) is often fruitless. I would think most people would agree, sin or not, it is not WISE to smoke.

I think that we do much better in life if we seek the wise thing to do in all situations, rather than just asking whether it’s right or wrong. Andy Stanley wrote a good book on this idea, drawing on so many scriptures regarding wisdom, called “The Best Question Ever.” Although the title sounds a little pompous, it’s a really good book.


18. Alfie
February 19, 2009
10:51 AM

I think at the final judgement, we are all going to be quite surprised at how thoroughly sinful we all are, all the time. Everything I choose has a pound of flesh included. It seems like the closer I get to God, the more sinful I realize I am, which paradoxically leads to contrition and joy at the same time. Contrition because I realize how wretched I am, and joy because in Christ my sins are atoned for and His righteousness is imputed to me.

This doesn’t mean I can have a laissez-faire attitude about everything. Instead, by God’s grace, I can become more and more like Christ through each season. I can also extend much grace to others who are at different places on the road of sanctification.

One this is for sure: I can’t wait for heaven, when all sin is GONE. Now THAT is a tough one to wrap one’s mind around.

Peace.


19. Ray
February 19, 2009
10:52 AM

Padron,
Back in my college days I was a young and zealous fairly new Christian. I was a hardcore blockhead when it came to condemning my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ for everything that I considered “sin.” Mostly, I opposed alcohol of any kind in any amount, secular music, and smoking of any sort because they were my stumbling blocks.

“What kind of example are you being,” I would say.
“How can you do such things to the temple of God?” I would ask.

It all came to a screeching halt when a good friend on his way to an M. Div., pulled me aside and said something very much like:


“Tonight is my birthday. I’m going to go home, pour a glass of brandy, light a cigar, and thank God for another year of life ended. Then I’m going to ask Him for guidance in this year to come. Finally, I’m going to praise Him for all of His creation and sit in quiet prayer while enjoying the cigar and a couple glasses of Brandy. This is a family tradition that my dad taught me on my 21st birthday, and I’ve done it ever since.


“You are going to go down to the coffee shop and get on your fellow Christians’ nerves for having a cigarette with their coffee. Which do you think brings more Glory to the Father?”
His tradition has been mine since.


20. sdechert
February 19, 2009
11:01 AM

I agree with the previous post that quoted Aristotle’s “all things in moderation.” All too often, however, we jump on those things that we don’t like personally; smoking because we don’t like the smell, drinking because a family member was an alcoholic, etc. This is where Paul’s statement in 1 Corinthians 10:23-30 (ESV) is helpful. “Why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience?” – v. 29. “The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof.” – v. 26. While individuals may choose to partake or abstain from such things as the tobacco leaf or distilled grain, both are of the earth and both should be able to be enjoyed by other individuals in a responsible manner without being “denounced because of that for which they give thanks” – v. 30.

I give thanks to God for the tobacco leaf – I love a good pipe. I give thanks to God for the distillation of grain – I love a good Belgian beer. Both of them represent the goodness of God in His creation. Yet both can be (and far too often are) abused. This is where biblical maturity comes in, something that is sorely lacking in most churches. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater (as I believe Piper’s church is doing) is one answer, but not necessarily the most biblically mature. I am reminded of a White Horse Inn program some years ago in which the hosts (after a long debate on the merits of a good beer) decided to go out and find some Baptist teetotalers and toast them with a pint in order to spur their maturity. That’s not necessarily a biblically mature thing, either (albeit a little more fun). Biblical maturity has to mean something more than snarking at one another over so-called vices.

After all, “all things are lawful, but not all things are helpful” – 1 Cor. 10:23. We as Christians partake in many things that aren’t necessarily “helpful,” but that doesn’t automatically make them sin. Why do we spend so much of our time, then, sniffing out pseudo-sin in other people’s lives rather than dealing with the real sins that we all commit, corporately and individually?

My favorite quote of Johann Sebastian Bach comes to mind. “And so, puffing contentedly, on land, at sea, at home, abroad, I smoke my pipe and worship God.”


21. Steven McCarthy
February 19, 2009
11:07 AM

I like your take on this. Sounds like Piper has some good thoughts as well, though I would like to see both sides of the weaker brother scenario (Romans 14 esp. verse 2) included in his discussion (perhaps it is, but not from what is included in this post). By this I mean, I think our stance on this issue should warn against judgmental attitudes from those with more sensitive consciences toward those who have more free consciences about smoking and moderate drinking. Piper seems to, and I think it is common, to give greater preference to the weaker brother in these issues as we reiterate the “temple of the Holy Spirit” arguments and tell the stronger brothers to prefer the weaker brethren. It is true that in practice the weaker must be given deference in these issues precisely because they have the weaker consciences and are more likely to be offended or led to sin, but at the same time, teaching on this ought to help those with weaker consciences to grow into maturity and to not judge the one who eats (drinks or smokes). “The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. ” (Romans 14:3) Those who have free consciences in regard to eating and drinking and even smoking are not to look down at and offend the weaker brother, but the weaker brother is here exhorted to refrain from judging those who freely partake.
Of course we must bring the exhortation “whether you eat or drink of whatever you do do all to the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31) into the discussion. And also, “All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.” (1 Cor. 6:12) In answering your question, can you smoke to the glory of God? I believe that one can. Still, we must not forget that smoking is incredibly harmful to the body, and we must not be mastered by it. Most smoking that goes on involves addiction and all of it involves some harm to the body, though occasional smoking is in such a proportion that I can sooner see banning McDonald’s cheeseburgers or coca cola than some body smoking a cigar on a special occasion. Smoking can be very relaxing, can be enjoyed among brothers in Christ, and in these moments glory, thanks, and praise can be given to God with a clear conscience. One can smoke with thanksgiving. However, it is going to be hard to give thanks when you become addicted and are destroying your body through a habit of smoking. I have known some to say that all smoking is excessive, but I think this is a definition of excess that opens up a huge can of worms we don’t have biblical warrant to open. So while we steer clear of justifying our own addictions and destructive patterns under the banner of Christian liberty, we must steer clear of destroying Christian liberty through legalistic rules imposed on others regarding these matter.
Of course another whole issue that we could raise in regard to this is the social and cultural baggage that comes along with smoking and also drinking. Since these things are abused and used destructively in our culture must we abstain from them, or can we as Christians partake in such a way as to show a better way? I favor the later direction. I know others whose strong distaste for the habit of smoking and drinking is linked to the wretched histories of the industries. So, in what ways might smoking and drinking be an issue of social justice? Of course, we have already brought up the use of your resources. Probably should bring up the SUVs in our church parking lots as one commenter has mentioned when we come to this side of things.
Certainly these are complex issues with many factors to weigh. I appreciate the discussion. God bless.


22. Trevor Peck
February 19, 2009
11:10 AM

So, if we ever get this one nailed down, what comes next? Can I smoke the occasional joint, I mean for medicinal purposes only? Being an ex-smoker, I guess that makes me more than a little bias. Is it catagorically sinful…maybe! I will say this, when I’m driving and a discarded butt lands on my windshield, that is the worst of sins. Well, I guess I will conclude that smoking is a stupid thing to do. Is being stupid sinful?

Love in the Truth.


23. alfie
February 19, 2009
11:11 AM

Here’s a real can of worms: What about smoking pot?


24. Tyler
February 19, 2009
11:12 AM

I am a former smoker. Since becoming a Christian (not terribly long ago) I have gone from not doing it at all to doing it on occasion. I am not really a cigar man myself… I like to have some cigarettes sometimes when I’m out with friends who also do that, or while playing a game of chess & having a beer, etc.

I agree, though, that if it is mastering you, you should not do it - and regularly buying cigarettes or cigars is basically asking to become addicted to it. I struggled with this for a while before realizing it was probably a bad idea for me to buy a pack and leave them in the fridge, just having one every once in a while because I liked them - having them there led to me smoking them more, and then getting cravings, which is the sign of beginning to be mastered.


25. Laura Lee
February 19, 2009
11:19 AM

I take it, Tim, you were never a smoker.

I never smoked a cigar or pipe in my life, but I can tell you that smoking, and the desire for smoking, cannot be done in “moderation.” It is highly addictive, just shy of heroin, and quickly rules over the life of the one who partakes, whether it be though time spent smoking when one should be living, or money spent on cigarettes when other items are most needed. And, every upset of life, or every turn of boredom, is an excuse to smoke: “I’m upset, stressed, angry, sad, confused, hungry…”

As with all sinners in all sins, smoking easily and swiftly takes the place of God in our lives. When we should turn to Him with our burdens, cares, and praise, we instead turn to a substance for our comfort, ease of mind, and strength to go on. Foolishly, we covet and indulge in a substance that, if taken as directed, will cause our untimely death. In other words, things will not go well with us and we will not live a long life if we smoke.

And smoking kills not only the one who smokes, it kills relationships with those around him. If a pack of cigarettes contains twenty, and we are awake on average sixteen hours, think of the man who must excuse himself from those around him—his wife, his children, his friends and co-workers, his boss—every forty-one minutes for a seven minute smoke! I’ve been on both ends of this and can confess that no matter what is happening in the home, you just can. not. stop. yourself. nor can you stop the one in the grip of it.

Just because sinners will find all sorts of ways to sin, such as caffeine, foods-whether too much or too little, computer-time, books, tv, etc., should not mean that we stop calling idolatry by its given name.


26. Jake
February 19, 2009
11:24 AM

Seems like most commenters agree, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I think the cigarette/cigar or pipe distinction is a legitimate and helpful one.

Most people who smoke cigars or pipes (like me) do so on an occasional basis— something like having a piece of cheesecake after dinner. To do that every night wouldn’t be good, but as an occasional thing, no big deal. Cigarettes, on the other hand, are normally something you’re addicted to, a several-times-a-day kind of thing, and there are the obvious health issues.

At the same time, there’s no “thou shalt not” on cigarettes, so when we talk to people about this we need to be really clear about why, from a biblical standpoint, there could be a problem. Certainly not as clear as sexual immorality or what have you.

Overall, I think occasional tobacco use is like occasional alcohol use— avoid causing others to stumble and enjoy God’s creation. But addiction or the unwise use of either is clearly sinful.


27. Ray
February 19, 2009
11:31 AM

alfie,

I don’t think there’s any can of worms going to be opened.

Smoking pot would be sinful for two reasons:

1. We are admonished to obey the laws of the land. Romans 13:1-2:

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
2. One long pull off of a joint (or bong or bowl) induces something very similar to drunkeness (and so admonishments that apply to drunkeness by wine are just as applicable to pot as they are to gin), and that’s bad: Galations 5:19-21Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.Ephesians 5:15-21
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.


28. E.G.
February 19, 2009
11:39 AM

Well, God made tobacco, and alcohol, and sugar, and coffee beans. As created things, they are neither good nor bad in and of themselves. But their use can become sinful if we choose to abuse them.

Thus, using them for pleasure is fine - God intends for us to derive pleasure from His creation. But abusing them as an addiction - something that we intend, at least partially, to use to reduce our reliance on Him - is sinful.


29. Tom Sturch
February 19, 2009
11:50 AM

Wow! Amazing responses in both volume and insight! Isn’t smoking just one aspect in the larger view of where we take our pleasure? My sense of God’s ordering the Garden is that we take it in the enhancement of life and worship.

But oh man! While smoking may be distasteful to me there are so many other pleasureful distractions!! Oh…would that I could but I can’t!!


30. Rich Owen
February 19, 2009
11:55 AM

The urge to eat masters me on a daily basis. Perhaps I should stop eating ;-)


31. Peter
February 19, 2009
11:55 AM


32. J.P.H.
February 19, 2009
12:09 PM

I don’t know about that, Ray. I’m speaking from a place of ignorance here, not having smoked pot, but I’ve been around people who were high (not ridiculously so) and it was no different from being around someone who’d had two or three glasses of wine.

I’d agree with you that it’s sinful from the perspective of obeying the laws of the land. That said, it’s not illegal everywhere.

Back to the drunkenness thing…how much wine do we suppose Jesus drank at the wedding at Cana? I mean, I can’t by any stretch of the imagination imagine Jesus drinking enough to become ill or be unable to walk. At the same time, I could very easily see him drinking enough to “feel it”.

Some people have a glass of wine at night because it helps them get to sleep. So the alcohol is having a significant physical effect, i.e. making the person sleepy. Suppose pot were legal, and we substituted “eat a pot brownie” for “drink a glass of wine”. Doesn’t seem that different to me.

(Consequently I support legalization, and don’t see this as an inherently “un-Christian” position.)


33. Mark Nenadov
February 19, 2009
12:15 PM

Interesting.. I have a blog post which speaks about caffeine and touches on some of the same issues.

One problem when dealing with various substances which can be dependence forming, is that our cultural very much impacts how we think about these things. And we arrive at many inconsistencies because of it.

The fact that something is potentially addicitive or psychoactive does not make it inherently wrong. Caffeine is perhaps the most widely accepted addictive and psychoactive drug.

As a user of caffeine (though not an over-user I think), I can definitely say that I’ve seen cases where caffeine can produce an addiction that, if it were any other drug, would be classified as problematic.

“Suppose your friend came to you and said he’s been using a new drug for a few years, and he just has a couple hits a day. And then suppose he waits in a huge line-up to get it. And suppose there are some 20 people lined up potentially getting late for work just to get their fix. And suppose he even budgets a certain amount of money for it. And suppose his eyes light up when someone delivers him a free hit. And he gets a bit cranky and shaky if he can’t get it. And then suppose he just needs a little hit to start his day and another one to continue it, and is sort of unable to function with out it.”

As much as I hate I despise smoking, I must say that an addiction to nicotine is not inherently any *morally* worse than an addiction to caffeine. We as Christians are called not to be enslaved to anything (cf. Paul to the Corinthians). The enslavement can come from many things, and there are many things it isn’t wise to partake in. But I believe we don’t have a license to classify the ingestion of nicotine as a sin in and of itself.


34. Darrin
February 19, 2009
12:21 PM

For any benefits from the consideration of this pracitce, you have the Bach quote given above, and you also have “Smoking Spiritualized” by the Puritan Ralph Erskine:
http://www.puritansermons.com/erskine/erskin15.htm
The analogies are quite interesting, and I think some insight can be gained. The first part goes thus:

“This Indian weed now wither’d quite,
‘Tho’ green at noon, cut down at night,
Shows thy decay;
All flesh is hay.
Thus think, and smoke tobacco.

The pipe so lily-like and weak,
Does thus thy mortal state bespeak.
Thou art ev’n such,
Gone with a touch.
Thus think, and smoke tobacco.

And when the smoke ascends on high,
Then thou behold’st the vanity
Of worldly stuff,
Gone with a puff.
Thus think, and smoke tobacco.

And when the pipe grows foul within,
Think on thy soul defil’d with sin;
For then the fire,
It does require.
Thus think, and smoke tobacco.

And seest the ashes cast away;
Then to thyself thou mayest say
That to the dust
Return thou must.
Thus think, and smoke tobacco.”

I don’t smoke, by the way, and don’t recommend it, at least not in “excess”, whatever that would be. Yet somehow I don’t seem to freak out about being around smokers as much as many non-smokers seem to. And be careful not to consider them “second class” humans - that would be biblically inconsistent.


35. Wendy
February 19, 2009
12:38 PM

I’ve been listening to some Matt Chandler (who spoke at the Desiring God Pastor’s Conference recently) and I think he was referring to 1 Cor 6:12 when he said something to the effect that the question to ask yourself is not whether something is right or wrong (and get a list for legalism), but does this activity draw me closer to God or draw my heart away from him?
I agree with most of what’s been said here. It’s a heart issue, and smoking is going to look different for different people. But being aware of how your actions are affecting others is important as well. I’d also want to guard against the thought of “I only smoke a pipe now and then, so I’m not as bad as that guy over there smoking a pack a day.” There’s a danger in comparing ourselves to others rather than applying the Word simply to OURselves and acting according to how God convicts us.


36. J.P.H.
February 19, 2009
12:38 PM

Mark re: nicotine vs. caffeine:

From what I gather (having two parents who were nicotine addicts when I was growing up), nicotine and caffeine addiction are apples and oranges. I drink about 5 cups of coffee a day. It’s free at work. Could I quit? Sure. And I’m pretty sure I could do it much more easily than, say, my parents quitting smoking. So there’s addiction and there’s addiction. I can sit through an 8 hour plane ride without missing coffee. Not so for the nicotine addict.

Then there’s the health aspect. Two-pack-a-day smoking is drastically more health-affecting than drinking 4-5 cups of coffee a day.

Basically I’m with you that smoking cigarettes isn’t inherently sinful. At the same time, though, I’m not ready to say “two-pack-a-day-several-thousand-dollars-a-year” smoking is not sinful.


37. MrPages
February 19, 2009
12:39 PM

“Pastor, can I smoke while I’m praying?”

“Absolutely not! Praying is a holy activity, and you must not profane it with a sin like smoking!”

“Pastor, can I pray while I’m smoking?”

“Certainly! Prayer is appropriate at any time and every time!”


38. Ray
February 19, 2009
12:51 PM

J.P.H.,

You make good points, and I would be hypocritical to argue that “feeling it” is the same as drunkeness.

From my personal experience (back in the day, mind you) one good drag was similar to drunkeness. But, I understand that different things affect different people in different ways. For example, four fingers of Scotch is a tasty treat for me, with no effect on my brain function. Two beers for my brother, and he’s on the floor. So, I’ll concede that …in a way. However, given the culture that surrounds pot (even where it’s legal - been to Amsterdam more than once) and the effects that it has, I can’t imagine it being a good thing for a Christian to do (legal or not here), at least not in my lifetime.


39. Eric S. Mueller
February 19, 2009
12:51 PM

I think we’re irresponsible when it comes to naming sins. We tend to focus on the individual sins, while letting some greater sins go. What is worse from God’s eyes: smoking, or supporting a politician who oppresses the poor? I think if anything we need to take a wide angle view of sin.


40. Travis
February 19, 2009
12:53 PM

I think it is very easy to say smoking cigarettes and pipes and cigars is not a “sin”. I think the marijuana question is really the more in your face question. I think ‘alfie’ brings up a really poignant issue because I have many students who travel abroad and this mitigates the legal question from Scripture.

We can make the argument about mind altering drugs (i.e. drunkenness), but everything that I have read about cigarettes is that they are totally mind altering, they change the bio-chemistry of the brain. I think the issue of any smoked drug very much needs to be a part of the complete understanding of this issue.


41. Ray
February 19, 2009
12:59 PM

J.P.H.,

On a related side note:

I would venture to guess that, if marijuana were legalized, we would be sadly suprised at the number of professed Christians rushing to the local cornerstore to get their first joint. I gather this from many a conversation. Anyhow, this isn’t a commentary for or against legalization, nor am I damning anyone intentionally, just a postulation made obsersation.


42. Ray
February 19, 2009
1:02 PM

just a postulation made obsersation should read just a postulation made from observation.


43. Kyle
February 19, 2009
1:32 PM

Others have touched on this, but I think it comes down to “being mastered by” it, or by anything (i.e., “addiction”). If one is able to smoke a cigarette or a cigar without lasting attachments and related difficulties (i.e., he is not addicted to it), I see no reason to condemn it. I apply this to alcohol as well. If one is able to enjoy alcohol in moderation, and with great care, without being mastered by it, it is permissible.

Another thought: Tim, one of your arguments (and one I hear often) is basically, “Eating unhealthy food is just as much a problem as smoking; therefore, we shouldn’t make a big deal of smoking.” It seems to me that the logic of this argument is backwards; if we see a connection between smoking and unhealthy eating (or any other related issue), rather than dismissing the one as “no big deal,” we should consider both as sinful and strive for discipline and self-control regarding ANYTHING we put in our bodies.


44. Nathan
February 19, 2009
1:41 PM

Umm… Tobacco smoke at any and all levels is poisonous.

Is smoking a sin? Who cares — it’s stupid.

Can I smoke without being “mastered by tobacco?” Who cares — it’s stupid.

If you smoke, you will find out more likely sooner than the rest of us what God really thinks of smoking.


45. donsands
February 19, 2009
1:52 PM

“But when we look at the evidence of how smoking impacts the smoker’s health, how it impacts the health of others around him, how it encourages addiction and so on, it seems that it is something the Christian would be eager to avoid or overcome.”

I smoked for years. Maybe five packs a week. My brand was Raliegh filters, and I did save a lot of coupons as well. I’m glad I never had to order a lung machine with those coupons. Just kidding.

I’m happy the Lord delivered me from smoking. Smoking is up to $5 a pack I think. I was paying 50 to 75 cents a pack. I’m very happy I don’t smoke anymore.

I like how Yul Bynner said it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjunlWUJJI


46. Linda
February 19, 2009
2:05 PM

Nathan and Laura Lee are EXACTLY the reasons Pharisees were called blind.

I enjoy a cigar with my husband once a month. And a glass of wine. And were cigars around in Jesus’ day, he may have even had once at Levi’s and Zaccareaus’ house those evenings. And the Lauras and Nathans of the world would have sniffed and still called him a smoker and winebibber.

So friends, enjoy your Christian liberty.


47. Larry Walker
February 19, 2009
2:05 PM

Ahh…you have touched on a topic very dear to my heart here. I detest cigarettes, but in the same way that I detest sushi. I just don’t enjoy it. But, I am an avid cigar fan, and I very much enjoy smoking a pipe. I don’t think the text about our bodies being the temple applies here. That is speaking of sexual immorality,clearly. My philosophy is “all things in moderation”. God has limitations on everything. Sex is wonderful, but to be enjoyed within marriage and not be mastered by it. Food is wonderful, but our stomach is not to be our god and we are not to over eat. Sleep is great as well, but we are not to be lazy. Money is something that we need to survive and support our families, but we are not to be greedy. Knowledge is a great thing to have and grow in, but we don’t find our identity in how intelligent we are. I come from a fundamentalist background where I had to keep my hair above my ears and have no facial hair and listen to only organ music and not enjoy ANY form of alcohol and ABSOLUTELY NO tobacco. But reading Charles Spurgeon, but above that, scripture, set me free from legalism. I now enjoy wine in moderation. I love beer, in moderation.
One last point- one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control. NOT abstinence. I have found that it is far easier to abstain from something than to just exercise self control over yourself. Well, that’s my two cents. I enjoy the discussion…I think I am going to go have a cigar now, with a nice glass of wine, and read my Bible. :)


48. Nathan
February 19, 2009
2:21 PM

Umm… The Lindas of the world should read more carefully. I never called smoking a sin. Do what you want to do, Linda, I don’t care, but the biological fact remains — tobacco smoke kills.

The last line of my last post was mere tongue in cheek and not condemnation of smokers…


49. Larry Walker
February 19, 2009
2:22 PM

Laura Lee,
I must take exception to your statements. In fact, that is too tame. I Categorically, absolutely, infinitely, vehemently, passionately disagree with you. You’re comparing it ( tobacco use) to heroin! There is a story that pertains to this. I don’t know it word for word, but I have the rough idea, I bet you could find it at the Spurgeon Archives. Charles Spurgeon every evening would have a cigar with his servant outside while his servant chewed tobacco. They would sit and pray and discuss scripture. One time his servant implied that he was addicted to tobacco. Spurgeon agree to stop smoking cigars if the servant would stop chewing tobacco. The servant agreed thinking that it would be a few days and Spurgeon would begin, I guess(As Laura Lee would say) itching and throwing up from withdrawal from his tobacco. Months passed. Months. Spurgeon was fine. Finally the servant said that he missed his chewing tobacco and Spurgeon agreed to start meeting at night again.
As I said before, I smoke cigars. I have maybe four a month. One a week. Not even that in the winter time, it’s too cold. Also, I would contend that it brings fellowship. John Piper quotes J. Gresham Machen ,who taught at Princeton and eventually founded Westminster Theological Seminary ” The fellows are in my room now on the last Sunday night, smoking the cigars and eating the oranges which it has been the greatest delight I ever had to provide whenever possible. My idea of delight is a Princeton room full of fellows smoking. When I think what a wonderful aid tobacco is to friendship and Christian patience, I have sometimes regretted that I never began to smoke”.
I can attest to this. In the city I recently moved from, the elders and pastors of the church would get together with young men at a local cigar lounge. We spent countless hours studying theology and having ale. Those were some of the best hours of fellowship in my life. So as to the theory that smoking breaks relationships…that is ridiculous. My wife has even asked me to smoke my pipe at times because she enjoys the smell of the vanilla. What a woman!

One last note….Piper believes that having a hang-up against smoking is “pietistic, perfectionist tendencies”.

All my Piper quotes come from Contending for Our All


50. Mark Nenadov
February 19, 2009
2:39 PM

JPH - I see what you mean about apples and oranges. I would just add that the degree of harm or the degree of addicitivness or the degree of strength isn’t necessarily relevant if in principle the same sort of thing is going on. Caffeine stimulates the same area of the brain in ways almost biologically identical to other stimulants. Sure we could argue whether one is substantively worse or not. But that gets rather subjective, because then you would have to factor in a persons tolerance, dosages, and what not.


51. Amy
February 19, 2009
2:58 PM

I think I go with this postion:

Smoking is foolish but not sinful.

BUT smoking inside and around other people is sinful because you are intentionally harming another person. You’ve broken the command to love one another, to prefer another above yourself by endanging the lives of other people with second-hand smoke.

I’m willing to rethink the issue. Just my gut reaction.

[My mother-in-law died of lung cancer while never smoking a day in her life, but she spent a lot of time in the break room at the hospital as an NP….Both my parents chain-smoked too.]


52. Ron
February 19, 2009
3:42 PM

Just like anything it’s mostly about the attitude/reason for doing something, and the awareness of others. Piper gets it right. Be very careful about how you justify an action, but the fact is the action which so many others are bothered by could be just fine for a partiuclar individual..

And for goodness sake for some of you who try to compare smoking to heroin or other mind altering substances use some reason. The slope may be slippery, but it ain’t that slippery.


53. Afrikaner
February 19, 2009
3:48 PM

Could someone please explain to me why the text which says that we not cause another to stumble, more often than not is brought out to keep the legalist happy, rather than causing someone who is actually weak in a certain area to actually stumble and sin? I find great freedom in having a beer in front of a legalist…. and let them through 1 Corinthians at me…

My observations would make me think that most western christians (myself included) have a bigger problem with gluttony and materialism, and addiction to sex, voyeurism, pornography, masturbation, etc rather than smoking.


54. Nick L
February 19, 2009
3:58 PM

I like beer, cigars, pipes, and an occasional cigarette.. and I LOVE JESUS! I believe these can be done to God’s glory (1 Cor. 10:31), but they must not be my greatest pleasure. Christ is our greatest treasure!

Many of you commented on how you lean away from smoking or drinking because of a relative or loved one died from those things. Those are good enough reasons, I suppose, but we must be consistent, then, and eat healthy foods only in light of the fact that many people (thin and overweight) die earlier in life because of the ways we treat our bodies by eating crap and not getting exercise.


55. Michael Kellahan
February 19, 2009
4:03 PM

Smoking is stupid but not sinful. I buried another cancer suffering smoker just last week.
Smoking isn’t something that puts you closer or further to God (although it may accelerate your standing before Him)
Smokers are a bit like the 21st century lepers aren’t they? Shouldn’t churches be welcoming then? How about big signs out the front of church that said ‘Smokers Welcome’


56. Marie
February 19, 2009
4:50 PM

The difference between the brain altering effects of a cigarette, pipe, bottle of beer or glass of wine vs. crack or heroin or speed is incredibly large.

If you ingest anything that releases your inhibitions and impairs your judgement, I think you are doing wrong.

I do not believe a pack a day or a couple of beers release your inhibitions or impair your judgment. Those other drugs, including marijuana, do.


57. Michael Duenes
February 19, 2009
4:59 PM

I enjoy smoking a stogie every now and again. I agree with Piper, and he really challenged me when he said that we should not ask minimalist Christian questions. In other words, he said that the question: “What’s wrong with it?” is the wrong question. When we are contemplating any behavior, we should ask ourselves whether the action will fan into flame a further desire for Christ and for holiness. I have often found this to be an uncomfortable question, but I certainly think it is in keeping with the spirit of 1 Cor.10:31.


58. Kyle In WI
February 19, 2009
5:02 PM

Here is a good question. We will have wine in heaven at the marriage supper. in fact Jesus turned water into the best wine they ever had. So will there be good cigars in heaven?

In context the body is a temple for the Holy Spirit is directly refering to sexual immorialty. Do not use it out of context to fight something you do not like.

I saw this great picture of CS Lewis the other day and guess what he was smoking. He must of been a lower level christian becasue we know no serious christian can smoke.

I do smoke, 100% additive free periquie ciggs. I enjoy very much and thank God he provide such a great plant to sit around and relax with friends. Whether it be with a cigg or a cigar.

Saying or implying that smoking is a sin is pure legalism, it would be the same as saying driving a internal compustion vehicle is a sin becuase it is unhealth and dangeours.

Ecc. 8:8
No may has the power of the day of death.

I know many people never smoked a day in there life and they died of lung cancer. We can not control how, when or where we die. Our job is to glorfy God in whatever we do whether eating or drinking or smoking. I have had witnessing opps on my breaks with smokers. If i did not smoke I would not of had that chance.

Just a FYI I smoke maybe a pack or two a week.


59. Kyle In WI
February 19, 2009
5:08 PM

Of course everyone know that CH Spurgeon smoked cigars. What a second rate christian he was.

I second had smoke is wrong. I car exhauted a sin. How about hair spray.

This is my advise. Where the bible speak we should speak, where the bible is silent we should likewise be silent.

Just my to pennies. Anyone disagree?


60. kyle in WI
February 19, 2009
5:10 PM

Sorry meant to say.

If second hand smoke is wrong, is car exhausted a sin? How about hair spray ect…??


61. kyle in WI
February 19, 2009
5:27 PM

FYI

cigars are not addictive, they have very low level’s of nicotine, kind of like decaf coffee. It is from the long amounts of time it takes to process tobacoo for cigars.

Also nicotine is just about as addictive as caffine. The reason ciggs are so bad is because cigg companies add 400 different chemicals just to make you even more addictive to ciggs. They even in the 80’s make what is commonly refered to as “liquid crack nicotine” which is highly addictive. That is why the got it to so much trouble. It would be like Coke Cola adding 400 toxic chemicals just to make you extremly addicted to caffine.


62. donsands
February 19, 2009
5:38 PM

“I do smoke, 100% additive free periquie ciggs.”

What is that exactly? If you don’t mind my asking. And how much do they run a pack? If that”s alright to ask as well.


63. kyle in WI
February 19, 2009
5:39 PM

If the level of what is a sin is what impaires you ect…for coccaine, weed, what about Dr. perscribed codine, morphine ect..?

I agree drugs for the purpose of getting high is a sin, do not be drunk but be filled with the Holy Spirit.

So how does this thinking and logic fight in with RX’s? I for one can tell you morphine is way more addictive and harsh on body than herion is. So how does it all fight together?


64. kyle in WI
February 19, 2009
5:43 PM

Yeah I don’t mind.

“Perique (pronounced pa-rek) is a dark and richly-flavored and among the rarest and most sought-after types of tobacco. It provides a distinctively rich and spicy flavor that cannot be imitated. This tobacco was first cultivated by the Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians more than 400 years ago. In order for tobacco to be called Perique it must be force-fermented. This unique process ages the tobacco under pressure in oak whiskey barrels for over a year. These methods are what create the distinctive spicy flavor and sweet aroma found only in Perique tobacco.”

I enjoyed cigars and then found these. They run around around $6.00 or so. They are 100% additive free, only whole leaf tabacco. As previously said tabacoo companies add 400 checimals to make you addicted to nictone along with what is called processed sheet tabacoo. Which makes up about 30% of noraml ciggs. This conistent of stems, seeds and the scraps from the factory floors. Giant tabacoo companies have no shame and waste nothing.


65. kyle in WI
February 19, 2009
5:49 PM


66. mike
February 19, 2009
6:01 PM

interesting post, good conversations

it’s been many years now, but i onced smoked a pack a day. i personally feel it was sinful because a.) cigarettes mastered me through addiction, b.) i was destroying my health and body, and c.) i was spending, back then, about $2.50 for a pack every day (they are MUCH higher now).

still, there’s a difference between being addicted to cheap cigarettes and, from time to time, enjoying some nice tobacco infrequently and in moderation - i say that as someone who doesn’t smoke anything anymore because of ministry. i personally feel the same way about alcohol - drunkenness is sinful, but a drink is simply enjoying creation, as humans should.

mike


67. Ian Carmichael
February 19, 2009
6:09 PM

I can’t help thinking that discussions like this one about whether smoking is a sin or not border on “foolish controversies” and “quarrels about the law” which are “unprofitable and worthless”. (Titus 3:9, 2 Tim 2:23).

“Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink…” (Col 2:16). Perhaps Paul would add “and smoking” . We’re not to “insist on ascetiscim” (Col 2:18). Rules and regulations about things that “all perish as they are used” are “of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh” (Col 2:23).

Rather, as Christians, let’s “set our minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth” (Col 3:2). Smoking may be unhealthy. But remember that “you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God” (Col 3:3). So there are more important things to think about and discuss together than smoking.

1 Tim 4:1-10 says that it is the “teaching of demons” to require abstinence from good things that God has created. So if you are inclined to assert that “Christians shouldn’t smoke”, I reckon you are on very dangerous ground.


68. deborah
February 19, 2009
6:27 PM

WWJD?


69. Devin
February 19, 2009
6:42 PM

“Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, so be careful what we put in our bodies.
Smoking is an addiction and Christians are to guard against addictions.
Smoking has many harmful effects and can often lead to other addictions.”

The premise in the second syllogism is wrong. Substitute another activity that can lead to addiction.
“T.V. watching is addiction.”
“Drinking wine is addiction.”
“Eating chocolate is addiction.”
When you do this, it sounds ridiculous. These activities aren’t wrong, just easily abused.

Someone might say, “Well, Campus Life meant smoking ‘a pack a day.’” They need to say that. It’s all the difference in the world.

The other two syllogisms are fine, but don’t lead to complete abstinence, just moderation.

On another note, I have been greatly helped by Dr. Piper’s books. One of the things they have taught me is to appreciate God IN his gifts. Marriage can be an idol, or a matrix of Christian hedonism. So can tobacco.


70. Mason
February 19, 2009
6:54 PM

I don’t know… discussions like this always make me feel quite unsettled. I know it’s something people struggle with, but the way that I so often hear Christians approaching this seems so far from anything biblical, it feels more like cultural disagreements covered with a religious veneer.

Not that I’d recommend people smoke, but at the same time I don’t see it as at all a sin issue, at least not on it’s own. It’s expensive and horrible for your health so I can’t say I get why people do it, and I have no interest in starting.

And yes, people can get addicted in a very severe way, which is something that should be a concern and can be a sin issue, but then the addiction is the sin issue not the smoking per-say. As Luther said about drinking, more or less, “Drink can be enjoyed in a sinful way, and so can women, should we utterly abstain from women as well?”.

Anything can be misused, smoking is no different. I think it is incredibly damaging to the witness of the church when we make things like that into boundary lines and label them sin. When my younger brother was 12 and still gasping when he saw smokers, thats a problem with our church’s attitudes and judgmentalism not those who smoke.


71. Jim Brown
February 19, 2009
7:37 PM

Addiction is relying on something other than God and is therefore sinful in nature. I was addicted to caffeine until recently (Coca Cola being the preferred form) and I will tell you the only way I broke that addiction was by prayer and fasting. I had tried to cut down and quit many times on my own but this time was different. There was no temptation or fear of backsliding…the desire was gone even during the initial physical withdrawal (headache). It probably seems like I’m making more of this than there is but it was a real transformation in a very short period of time.


72. Les
February 19, 2009
8:29 PM

Both of my parents smoked and I had to breathe that stuff in every day of my life until I left for college. I hate the habit and would never do it but I used to crave cigarettes in my dreams. My clothes reeked of cigarette smoke. My mom died from lung cancer in 1991 and my dad died from lung cancer in 2006 after he survived laryngial cancer. What can I say? It robbed me of my parents, it robbed my neices and nephews of their grand parents and it may have affected my health. I’ll have to wait to see if I get lung cancer or heart disease because of exposure to 2nd hand smoke but since both of my parents are dead and I’m not exposed to the smoke anymore my chances of this are dramatically reduced. Am I supposed to be happy about any of this?

Is any of this sinful? Is any of this good? If smokers could keep the consequences to themselves it might be fine but from my perspective it seems to be a habit that produces a lot of collateral damage.


73. Andrew Faris
February 19, 2009
8:38 PM

Hey Tim,

Good stuff, and something I’ve thought about for awhile. I’ve written a full post on it at Christians in Context. Here is the link.

Thoughtful and humble as usual, brother- thanks for raising the issue!

Andrew


74. Allen
February 19, 2009
8:54 PM

I come at this issue from a different angle than most. I enjoy a fine cigar about once or twice a month. I have found that while smoking in a public place such as a pub or cigar event at my local tobacconist, people are more inclined to have robust conversation than they normally would be. I have had many fruitful conversations on the gospel with a cigar in my hand smoking with others. I am not advocating to hit up pubs and get slammed on alcohol or smoke a carton of cigarettes a day to engage people with the gospel. I am saying that we have large segments of society that need the gospel and most of us in the church simply do not want to engage them on their ground. I didn’t start smoking cigars to use for evangelizing, but it has led me to meet many people I would never have met otherwise. Grace and peace to all.


75. Lisa Robinson
February 19, 2009
9:30 PM

I think if we’re honest, smoking is considered sinful because it has a long-standing tradition of being sinful. I agree with the commenters that point out how we gloss over other harmful things we put in our body without batting an eye but castigate those who smoke. I do agree with Amy regarding the impact on others and the fact that we would be causing harm to that other person. Now THAT is sinful, IMHO


76. Reid
February 20, 2009
12:02 AM

Tim…Really?


77. carissa
February 20, 2009
12:05 AM

you are brave for posting this! but though not the most important, it’s a very good topic of discussion.

we still tease my sister for saying (very loudly) as a 4-year-old in the supermarket, “mommy, i don’t like that lady. she SMOKES!” maybe it was the combination of growing up in smoke-unfriendly southern california, my parents’ negative view of smoking, and being converted/semi-raised in a baptist church, but i always just assumed smoking was tacitly really really BAD. it’s taken me this long (i’m now 22) to see that even though yes, there are yucky things about it, maybe “social” smoking is not a big deal after all. anyway, good thoughts given here!


78. John
February 20, 2009
8:49 AM

Terrific post.

Can we smoke to God’s glory? I don’t see how. However, I appreciate your saying that we can’t judge one’s spiritual condition by their smoking. Would we say that Spurgeon was a second rate Christian?

Smoking may not be considered a specific sin, but it is certainly a part of our fallen nature, is it not? But then, as you pointed out, so is much of what we accept as being perfectly fine.

Again, terrific post.


79. kyle in WI
February 20, 2009
9:20 AM

Here is a good question.

100, 200 or 300 years ago was it sinful for christian’s to smoke?


80. Ross
February 20, 2009
9:49 AM

I was recently considering this question, and came to the conclusion that smoking is a sinful act for a Christian.

When I visited a brother I hadn’t seen in a relatively long time I was surprised at his manner of speech and felt there was some backsliding that needed to be addressed. When I noticed a box of cigarettes in his truck, he guiltily admitted that he had begun smoking months before. I urged him to quit before he was taken too deep in addiction, and reminded him of his holy calling that has much to do with his body. He claimed he only smoked on work days, alluding to the stress associated at his job; and I feel that is common for most smokers.
Clearly Christians are to not smoke when overcome with stress but rather rejoice in the Lord and find satisfaction and peace in communion with Him foremost and His children.

Where I work there are a number of smokers, and I do my best to not bat an eye, and stand to have pleasant conversation with them while I take in their smoke (reminder: your lungs will be glorified in that Day anyway)..

I feel convicted that Christians must exhort their brothers and sisters toward holiness in spiritual and physical life, and thus smoking is inconsistent with a follower of Christ, and must be abandoned. As to excusing it on the basis of chemical-laden fast food, I would say that with the knowledge of harmful effect a Christian should abstain from that equally. As to Spurgeon and his cigars, I am certain there was limited knowledge to the adverse effects in his day, but now such knowledge is widespread and should usher in conviction.
As a Christian I believe I have liberty to drink alcohol and enjoy the fruit of the vine, yet being a college-aged guy and publicly in an atmosphere where drinking is seen negatively (either by Christians or unbelievers) I choose to abstain from it. If I ever chose to drink it would never be around those of weak conscience or in a public atmosphere. If we say we “have a right” and demand such liberty willfully ignoring those we are a witness to, I believe it becomes sinful. Is a smoke or a drink more important that honoring Christ in the presence of others?

On the other hand we must tolerate unbelievers who smoke and accomodate them by not being rude or unkind, or blocking our nostrils when we walk by. Grin and bare the coworkers that smoke, being an example of the compassion of Christ, who ate and drank with the presence of something infinitely more repulsive than cigarette smoke.


81. J.P.H.
February 20, 2009
11:05 AM

I just mentioned this blog post to my wife, who, surprisingly, came down on the “smoking is inherently sinful” side of the equation.

Her reasoning was that smoking in any amount is carcinogenic, and thus harmful to our bodies, of which we are stewards. This is different from coffee, alcohol, or sugary foods, which, in moderation, are not harmful.

So the “one cigar a month” smoker is raising his cancer risk, whereas the “glass of wine at dinner” guy isn’t.

She also pointed out that Lewis, Spurgeon, et. al. probably didn’t understand to the extent we do how harmful tobacco smoke really is. Had they known, then they theoretically might not have been smokers.

Anyway…there’s another opinion for you.


82. Andrea
February 20, 2009
11:15 AM

I inadvertently taught my young daughter that smoking was sinful. It came back to bite me when she asked me in front of our friend if his smoking was a sin. This is a friend from church. In this case I wonder if teaching her to label smokers as non-Christians (ie. sinners) might be more of a sin than the act of smoking itself.

I also wonder if we are more prone to label “sinful” those actions/addictions that affect others versus those that only destroy ourselves. An alcoholic is more likely to sin against his neighbor than a compulsive eater. Although I believe even those more secretive addictions can hurt others especially our children who we are more likely to loose patience with. Anything we put in our body has an affect on our overall health and demeanor for good or for bad.


83. kyle in WI
February 20, 2009
11:45 AM

We have know that tabacoo is harmful since the 1600’s when people tested it on rats and mice and it killed them. Nicotine has been used as an insticide since the early 1900’s. So we have known ciggs are harmful for a long time.

If it was proven tabacoo is healthy would it then be unsinful? It our basis of sin determined by science? Why are people seeking in trying to steal out freedom that is found in Christ?

So how does one eat to the golry of God? Can we not do this with all of creation? All that God has given us?

Anything that is organic and burns is cause cancer. So should we not have campfires because they can cause cancer for all who sit around them. You are missing the point it is not the action which is sinful, but the attitude of the heart combined with the action. If smoking is your persnal sign of rebillion aginst God sinful. If you glorify God in all that you do that is not expressly labled a sin in a bible, then there can be no sin there?

Who determines sin, man and what he thinks based on science or God and his word?


84. Darren Chow
February 20, 2009
12:27 PM

I myself find it hard that smoking cigerettes can be done for the glory of God. It is proven medically that it has 0 benefits and it kills and harms the smoker and those near him inhaling his second hand smoke.
To compare it with drinking a wine occasionally or eating junk food is not a fair comparison because we know that wine does have medical benefits if taken in moderation. Junk food, although unhealthy does have nutritional value even if it’s just a little. So you can apply the taken in moderation argument on them.

But i don’t see how you can do that for cigarettes. Every single puff is destructive. Even if you don’t smoke in front of others, you’re still killing yourself. And since there is 0 benefits to smoking cigs, the only reason that you want to smoke it, is because u want it for YOURSELF, which i think is self centeredness.

The knowledge of the devastating effects of smoking may not be quite common in the past as pointed out by others and I am not sure whether these great men of faith would have continued doing it if they were to know what we know today.

Just my 2 cents


85. David Giarrizzo
February 20, 2009
12:46 PM


Some more thoughts on why smoking by itself is NOT sinful…
http://fruittreelife.blogspot.com/2006/11/smokey-subject.html


86. KD
February 20, 2009
1:42 PM

Currently, the world is on a campaign to eliminate smoking altogether. Be not conformed to the world.

If God didn’t want us to smoke cigars He wouldn’t have given us fishing poles and canoes!

Or port, for that matter.


87. kyle in WI
February 20, 2009
2:09 PM

LOL


88. Matt
February 20, 2009
2:56 PM

Good post, Tim. The argument that “our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and therefore we should not [or should]” do this or that is made often in regard to lots of things: exercise, eating healthy, and in this case not smoking.

But what I don’t see mentioned as often is that the main point of that text regards moral issues, not health issues. So Paul is not saying “take care of your body in this way or that, since it’s a temple of the Holy Spirit.” That may be a legitimate inference, but that is not the point of the text. The point of the text is: “your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, so therefore avoid immorality.”

While inferences are definitely legitimate to make, in this case, as you point out, there is really much room for interpretation. It is not open and shut that “your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit” means “don’t do things that may be unhealthy.” So I agree that this is not a good argument in this case (or similarly when people argue on that basis that we should exercise, although I believe we should, and etc.).


89. Brandon Smith
February 20, 2009
3:08 PM

It’s pretty simple. It’s not in Bible, and therefore the only way you can make an argument is that “your body is a temple,” although that is more of a spiritual verse. Regardless, it ruins your lungs.. that should be reason enough!


90. Brandon Smith
February 20, 2009
3:12 PM

I will say this though, I agree with Piper that life is more important than pleasure.


91. Afrikaner
February 20, 2009
3:37 PM

Ian Carmichael mentioned that this thread verged on debating foolish controversies. No Ian I think you are pushing that text too far. A healthy discussion like this is good and makes us think about how we should apply the mind of Christ to all of life.
Maybe we shouldn’t focus on sin-not sin, but wisdom/stewardship/love to my brother or sister or neighbour/glory to God, issues and then when we do that we will see that wood from the cigarettes.

At it’s most basic smoking, imho is just dumb…… at it’s most addictive tentacles taking hold it can lead to …. causing another to stumble, wrecking our health,consuming our financial resources, tying up our hospital systems with the treatment of smoking related diseases etc etc… dumb-unwise-hard hearted stupid fallen humans… Does it really glorify God????


92. KD
February 20, 2009
3:59 PM

Thanks Kyle in WI. Glad I could make someone LOL


93. Mike
February 20, 2009
4:26 PM

I find these kind of discussions interesting. I guess I would have to say no smoking is not sinful but I am a bit of a libertarian on many of these issues, nor do I believe is drinking however intoxication I believe is and there is a difference between intoxication and a buz. I do niether but because I don’t do it does not mean its wrong or sinful, my personal conviction is for me it’s sinful. Spurgeon smoked cigars , Luther drank beer and CS Lewis did both Im sure to get a buz. If pot was legal would it be sinful? Yes because pot is a mind altering drug you’re either stoned or you’re not.


94. donsands
February 20, 2009
5:01 PM

” If pot was legal would it be sinful?”

It is legal for medicinal purposes. Is this alright with the Lord?

I figure during Prohibition it would have been a law that goes against the clear teaching of Scripture, and so one would be okay to make bathtub beer, however it may be more expedient to obey Caesar, and never forget to always “give to God what is God’s”.


95. kyle in WI
February 20, 2009
5:06 PM

I would say it is okay for medicinal purposes. Just like any other drug.


96. Rick
February 20, 2009
7:19 PM

Good article on a tough topic, Tim. I admit that the issue of smoking is not a very “black and white” issue for me, if only because over the past couple of years I’ve started to think of the greater problem of idolatry that perverts all of human life, even in the use of good things of creation. We can use good things as our functional gods apart from the true God, glorying in our own self-image.

I think of this from the fall of Adam in Genesis: Adam tells God that he was afraid because he was naked, and so he hid. And God asks Adam: Who told you that you were naked? Did Adam eat from the tree that God had commanded him not to eat? So Genesis shows that God’s Word created us without shame, and God’s Word protects us from shame; and in the fall of man, and our desire for sin, we lust after our own images apart from God.

I would think that if a natural material like tobacco was used in a non-compulsive way in grace-rooted relationship with the Lord, it would be an example of using creation to God’s glory. But I also have no problem saying that if compulsion did start to set in, and a person did become addicted to smoking, then Biblical, pastoral counseling would need to be applied to the person’s root idolatry issues with tobacco.

Having said that, I remember reading about Charles Spurgeon and J. Gresham Machen’s fondness for smoking, how it never really became a compulsion for them because of their rejoicing in freedom of conscience (and in Machen’s case, a means of building an atmosphere for friends in private party settings). In light of the chemicals that tobacco companies put in cigarettes and cigars and such to keep people smoking, it would be intriguing to consider how Spurgeon and Machen would have fared with smoking today.


97. Robert Jackson
February 21, 2009
7:50 PM

When Jesus died on the Cross he was the Second Adam, he did away with the sin that we inherited from Adam. Because of him we are no longer guilty. We died with him on the cross. All of our past sins were taken away, all of our present sins were taken away, and all of our future sins are taken away. If you believe that Jesus died for you on the cross you are no longer guilty of sin. We have a fleshly body and a sprit. Our spirit can not sin, it is from God. Once we accept Jesus and understand that we can no longer believe in the Tree of Good and Evil. We have been taught that God loves us if we do good and that he will punish us if we are bad. This Is Not True. When you are chosen by God (Believe in Jesus) you are not instantly made pure. It is a slow process. You start dropping away your fleshly parts and keep growing in you spirit each day. You will go forward and then go backwards. Slowly you will start to go forward more that you go back., and then you will start to see everything with spiritual eyes.
As you study and listen to the Father you will not have a revelation, you will have a burning desire to stop the things that “YOU” are condemning yourself about, remember God is not condemning you. Jesus was temped just as we are. He was a human just like us. It was difficult for him to overcome as it is for us. but he did, he is our example.
You don’t have to get up and do something about it. You don’t have to do something about it as this time. You will make yourself crazy worrying about it. Don’t fill guilty, take it to the Father, trust in him. Don’t try and do your own healing, it will come. You will start to see results in the way you think.
http://toseekthelight.blogspot.com/


98. justinianthelesser
February 23, 2009
12:10 AM

I really like the post by Steven McCarthy. And I don’t think anyone has really answered his question about Rom.14 regarding the “weaker brother.” I am really interested in your replies because I host a biweekly card night in which we enjoy cigars. Recently, however, cigars became an issue because of someone’s sensitive conscience. The goal of these card nights is fellowship and not smoking. I made the call to nix smoking so long as there are those who are either offended or bothered by it in any way. I believe it is my Christian liberty to enjoy a good cigar but I will happily abstain from it for the sake of someone else.
A frequent problem with those who do enjoy cigars is that they flaunt their liberty. Most people in my church are not aware that I smoke the occasional cigar and I’m sure many would be offended and even angered by it if they knew. I believe this is a wrong attitude, but if it were to become an issue, I would stop immediately. I thank God that it has not. I’m attempting to switch to the pipe for the sake of my wife (she actually enjoys the aroma but can’t stand my cigar breath). There are two dangers to stay away from: (1) worldliness and (2) legalism. I am afraid that while attempting to stray from (1) I am am conceding to (2). I do not want to encourage those who are wrongfully judgmental and are over-sensitive in the way that Paul describes in Rom. 14:3. But I would gladly give up my liberty for the sake of others. In doing so I want to also encourage the “weaker brother” to move to maturity so that his conscience is bound by Scripture alone and not convention.


99. Hermann Hurch
February 23, 2009
5:47 AM

On the one hand, I suppose smokers smoke purely for their own enjoyment and inflict serious damage on their own bodies (and arguably those around them) in th process. So on that level it would be sinful. On the other hand there are so many things people do that are Ok, or even healthy and virtuous if done in moderation, yet can be just as damaging as smoking if done to excess. Eating is good, too much is bad. Too little is bad, too. So where do you draw the line as to what is sinful? What I’m trying to get at is if you think smoking is sinful, there are so many other things you’d have to include as well. Quite quickly you’re in semantic territory. I used to smoke an still succumb every now and again. When I do succumb, I certainly have a guilty conscience… Most of the time I use electronic cigarettes, which deliver just nicotine and not any of the really harmful poisons that come in normal cigarettes. That surely has to be better. For information about them, go to http://www.cannotstopsmoking.com


100. Brandon Smith
February 23, 2009
2:05 PM

Robert Jackson,

We are still sinful my friend. No, the Spirit cannot sin but our flesh still can. That line of thinking causes many Christians to think it’s okay to do what they want because they cannot sin anyway. It’s just not Biblical to say that. We are justified, not perfect.


101. Fernando
February 23, 2009
7:16 PM

Great article. The way I see it, it`s a deep ditch on either side of the road. I cant really judge anyone who smokes because we are forgiven for our sins through Christ. But, As far as the bible goes, anything apart from Christ is sin. Even this article could be sinful if done apart from the spirit of Christ. However, if it (smoking) becomes a stumbleing block to the furtherence of the gosple in the life of the smoker or in the lives of those to whom the smoker comes in contact with, than that is a problem. So then, smoking is just another manifestation of the flesh. Love the sinner, hate the sin.


102. Robert Jackson
February 23, 2009
7:57 PM

Brandon Smith,
God looks at our spirit, not our body. We are spirit in an earthly body. Your statement that my line of thinking causes many Christians to think its ok to do what they want to because they can not sin, shows that they were serving God out of fear, not love.


103. Susan
February 28, 2009
11:05 AM

I have a certain Bible scholar friend who will occasionally wonder into a bar for a beer and a good smoke….of the cigar variety (and he always brings a good book—often of the theological variety). He has told me several stories of having long and and intimate conversations with others who have approached him, asking about the cigar…. and then the book. He inevitably turns these conversations into an opportunity to share the gospel. That’s what I call “smoking to the glory of God” !
…..said scholar will remained unnamed….. ;-)


104. Roger Gallagher
March 4, 2009
7:42 AM

You might be interested in this article on changing attitudes towards smoking here in Australia:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/smokers-and-pedophiles-spoken-of-in-same-breath-20090302-8me8.html

While smoking itself might not be sinful, it certainly qualifies as unwise, even for those who smoke cigars instead of cigarettes
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/apr98/nci-10a.htm

I’d also argue that smoking is, ultimately, not loving when done in the presence of others. For a start, there’s the stench that every non-smoker complains about. (One of the things that I noticed when they banned smoking in pubs here in NSW was that I didn’t need to change my clothes the minute I got home on Friday night.) Furthermore, by exposing others to tobacco smoke, you’re increasing their cancer risk.

So for me, smoking (whether cigars or cigarettes) may be permissable, but it’s definitely not beneficial. (1 Cor 6:12 & 10:23)