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06/18/06
Comments (51)

Hell's Bells 2

Many years ago, when I was in my mid-teen years, I made the decision to stop listening to mainstream rock music and to turn instead to Christian music. Until that time I had been listening to whatever was on the radio. I had quite a few tapes and had once had a whole collection of those old vinyl 45’s. While I was usually not interested in music that was blatantly anti-God, I did listen to some that would surely have made my parents cringe had they heard it. But when I was fourteen or fifteen, my conscience began to accuse me about this music and I remember what was a near-religious experience for me, where I biked down to a local waterfall and, with no one else present, tossed some tapes over the edge in what was really a ceremony whereby I repented of that music. In the subsequent years, I bought Christian music and have since had little interest in mainstream music. Every now and then a song or a band catches my attention, but since I have so little willful exposure to it, this is quite rare. At the same time, I have kept abreast of what is happening in the music industry. Music saturates our culture, and it is difficult not to know what songs and artists are popular, for they are played on television, in commercials and are piped through malls, airports and any other public location. Needless to say, where the music of the 80’s and 90’s was bad, the music of our day is even worse. There has been a continual slide whereby the mainstream songs of our day are far worse than what was acceptable even ten or twenty years ago.

Many years ago, soon after I repented of my old music, I heard of a video called Hells Bells. Unfortunately, try as I might, I was never able to watch this video. I recently discovered that a sequel to this production was available and was able to secure a copy and study it this weekend. It is over six hours long, so this was no small undertaking. The DVD is produced by the same group that made Amazing Grace: The History and Theology of Calvinism which I reviewed here, and it is likewise hosted by Eric Holmberg. As with Amazing Grace, it is well-written, well-produced and theologically-sound. What I found especially impressive, is that while it is passionate about the subject matter, it avoids becoming what I feared it might - an obnoxious, uninformed tirade against the evils of anyone who likes to listen to music with a beat. It is alarming without begin alarmist.

It is important to note that because of the subject matter, this presentation contains disturbing material of a sexual and occultic nature and is inappropriate for younger viewers. At the beginning of the video, Holmberg warns that if you have no interest in or access to this type of music, you should probably not continue watching. But the bulk of the material, while it represents the worst of what the rock culture has to offer, is drawn largely from material that you might see on MTV or hear on your morning commute while listening to the radio. There are many places where details are blurred, film is censored and words are blanked out, but the heart of the horror remains in place.

While not explicitly stated, it seems that the presentation is targeted primarily at unbelievers, but secondarily at believers who have been drawn into this rock-n-roll culture. I would suggest that parents of teenaged children would do well to watch it as well. It kicks off with an introduction that provides the foundations for cultural analysis. Among the topics discussed is the philosophy of “judge not,” which dictates that we are wrong to question what others do, for morality is a personal matter. This is examined in light of what Jesus really meant when he warned against judgment. Having been assured that it is not only our right but even our responsibility to examine and judge something so revered as music, the presentation turns to this topic for the next six hours. Particular topics that the presentation covers in-depth are:

  • An Examination of the Power of Music
  • Music’s Spiritual Connection
  • The Occult History of Rock
  • Rebellion, Nihilism and Death
  • Satanic Sex and Rock-n-Roll
  • Rock’s Ultimate Rebellion
  • Music and Life at the Cross-Roads

Following these sections is a time of challenge and response, and finally some personal testimonies of God’s grace and goodness in the lives of a few individuals. The clear purpose of the producers is to contrast Biblical morality and order, with the rock culture’s immorality and chaos. Constant contrasts are made between the words of the Bible and the words of artists and listeners of rock music, between the heart of God and the blackened hearts of the rockers. We learn that the heart of rock-n-roll is rebellion, the sin that is at the heart of every sin, for Satan sinned by rebelling against God and the led humans in the same rebellion. When we sin against God, we make idols of ourselves, displaying the “me-ism” that is at the heart of rebellion. In one particularly noteworthy moment, the host asks many different teens to name three songs that promote sexual purity before marriage. Soon he was asking them for two, and then for one. No one could name a single song. While this is interesting, what is even more important is to ask ourselves why this question seems so absurd. It is absurd to ask about a rock song promoting purity or love for parents because such sentiments are antithetical to the very heart of rock music.

Another interesting observation was that the people at the heart of the music seem to understand what rock music is all about far more clearly than the kids who merely drink it all in. I am reminded of the latest series of American Idol where Gene Simmons (of KISS fame) was a guest judge. When confronted with a talented contestant who was a youth pastor, Simmons said to him, “I think you’re a country artist, and I’ll tell you why. If you sing pop lyrics, you’re going to have a problem with your ministry. Because rock and roll by definition — and popular music — is about sexuality. The rules are different for country. You can sing Christian oriented lyrics and be acceptable, and you can sell millions of records.” Time and again we see that the people who make and produce this music understand that it is, at heart, Satanic and in direct opposition to God. I was left wondering why it is that others cannot see this. And I came to realize that we cannot examine rock music without beginning with the foundation of the rebellion that is at its core.

One of the sections I found most shocking and convicting was the one dealing with the blasphemy that takes place when artists act out their rebellion and hatred towards God, and then thank him for their success or wear a cross around their neck. The video shows a montage of artists thanking God for their success (Backstreet Boys, N*Sync, Destiny’s Child (who were dressed in very-nearly nothing), Sisqo (who subsequently thanked a thong for its part in his success)) and praying before their shows (Limp Bizkit, Christina Aguilera (immediately before performing the song “Dirty” which is true to its name)). I was forced to wrestle with the anger that must burn in God as he looks at these people acting out their hatred towards Him, and then ascribing this “success” to Him - to a God who is infinitely holy and infinitely pure, incapable of committing or condoning sin.

A further strength of the presentation is that its relevance is enhanced by the fact that it is only one year old. Watching the original Hells Bells may be interesting, but when the criticism goes no further than Van Halen and Lynrd Skynrd, it is easy to write it off as a dinosaur that has no bearing on our day. And while people who listen to this type of music may be able to avoid any association with the ultra-hard-core Satanic death-metal bands, the focus on the big names means that there will be some connection to each viewer. In this edition, there are literally hundreds of different artists that receive at least a passing mention, many of whom are still on the charts: Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, Dave Mattews Band, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Blink 180, Sarah McLachlan, MxPx, KISS, Incubus, (to name just a few) and any number of rappers and hip hop artists whose names meant very little to me.

If there is a place this presentation falters, I would suggest it is in the area of “what next.” Having proven that much of the popular music of our day is absolutely unsuitable for consumption, the producers do not suggest next steps. I was left with questions such as: Can rock music be redeemed? Is it evil to its core, or is Christian rock music a suitable alternative? At the heart of these questions, is the deeper question of what makes evil music evil - the words, the music or the intent of the person who made it. I am sure it is for the best that Holmberg did not tell us to burn our CD collections and turn exclusively to classical music, but some guidance in moving forward would have been helpful, especially for those who were convicted of their need to remove themselves from this rock culture.

Conclusions

A consideration for me after watching this video was, How much is too much? How graphic is too graphic? I was forced to examine what I feel is given in a spirit of information, and what is just “too much.” I concluded that generally the producers did a good job of knowing where to draw the line. By the very nature of the content, this video had to be graphic, and even shocking. For example, it is one thing to state that today’s popular songs laud or laugh about every type of sin and debauchery - rape, bestiality, masturbation, homosexuality and every other type of deviant sex, but it becomes a reality in our minds when we see that the artists singing about these topics are considered “family-friendly” and may be playing in your son or daughter’s stereo at this very moment. I remember many years ago my friends and I would sing Cyndi Lauper’s song “She Bop” never knowing that it was a song about masturbation. Similarly, young children today are singing songs about topics that are far beyond their years, for Britney sings a song about masturbation and N*Sync sings one about cybersex. Many other artists sing about topics far worse. Some information will only reach us when it shocks us.

In summary, I found this presentation both convicting and biblical. The producers went to great lengths to be accurate and to do thorough analysis on the heart of music, rather than merely attacking the peripheral issues. The presentation continually turns to Scripture and ends with a theologically-sound time of response where people are invited to repent of their sin and turn to the Lord. Despite being graphic and discussing very dark subject matter, and with the same caveats as given by Holmberg at the beginning of the series, I recommend this presentation for both teens and parents. I am sure that this video can and will be used to reach many as God uses it to convict them of the evil heart of popular music.

Hell's Bells 2

Comments (51) »


1. Carly Staley
June 18, 2006
2:26 PM

Interesting post, Tim… in addition: It also amazes me that some of these artists, such as Michelle of Destiny’s Child, and Brian of the Backstreet Boys, have entered the Christian music world in some way. I’m not sure how I feel about a young woman wearing bearly nothing, singing a song called Bootylicious, turning around and then singing gospel music.

If these artists did it for the purpose of saying, “I am repenting and turning my back on the secular music world to do what God has truly called me to do,” it may be more acceptable, but that isn’t the case, since these artists (like Michelle and Brian) both returned to their groups.


2. Tim Challies
June 18, 2006
2:34 PM

Carly - That’s a good point. There are several artists who have crossed from secular to gospel but I don’t know of any who have repented of past behavior…even those who once sang songs called “Bootylicious.”


3. Josh Buice
June 18, 2006
2:51 PM

Tim,

Good article. We would be better off to expose some of the sinful traits of today’s music in order to save the next generation from such vile and wretched sinful exaltation in the name of entertainment.

Isn’t it interesting how Satan uses music to reach people? Satan uses music for his attack on humanity, his rants against God, and his perversion of the youthful mind.

Keep up the good work!

Rev. Josh Buice P.T.D. http://www.joshbuice.blogspot.com


4. 4ever4given
June 18, 2006
3:21 PM

“What’s Next”

“(Christ) is no dead King whose memory we are bidden to embalm, but a living Leader and Commander whose behests we must obey, whose honor we must defend… Surely it shall be so at the last with Jesus our King, and all his saints; we also shall sing “the song of Moses, the servant of God, and of the Lamb,” in that day when the arch-enemy shall be overthrown, and the hosts of evil shall be consumed, and they who hate the Lord shall become as the fat of rams, into smoke shall they consume, yea, into smoke shall they consume away… O Philistia! if thou didst but know who is our champion, thy Goliath of Gath would soon hide his diminished head. O Assyria, if thou didst but know that the ancient might of him who smote Sennacherib, still abideth with us, thy hosts would turn their backs and yield us an easy victory. There is a true and mysterious presence of Christ with his people, according to the promise “Lo I am with you always, even unto the end of the world;” it is because the world ignores this that she despises and sneers at the Church of God…. What new invention can Satan bring forth? The fire, the rack, imprisonment, banishment, confiscation, slander, all these have been tried, and in them all the Church has been more than conqueror through him who loved her. False doctrine without, heresy and schism with in, hypocrisy, formalism, fanaticism, pretences of high spirituality, worldliness, these have all (lone their worst. I marvel at the wondrous ingenuity of the great enemy of the Church, but methinks his devices must nearly have come to an end. Can he invent anything further? We have been astounded in these ages by the prodigy of an infidel bishop; we have been struck dumb with sorrow and amazement at a decree which declares that a Church professing to be a Church of Christ must permit men to be her ministers who deny the inspiration of Holy Scripture... “The rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house and it fell not;” nay, nor a single stone of it “for it was founded upon a rock.” But why all this, dear friends, why is it that we have seen the Church endure to this day? How is it that we are confident that even should worse times arrive, the Church would weather the storm and abide till moons shall cease to wax and wane? Why this security? Only because Christ is in the midst of her… We are a feeble folk; what then can we do for God? Why, do as much as the strong! ” from Christ is Glorious—Let Us Make Him Known by Spurgeon.

Psalms 72:8, 9 “He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.”


5. Dave Ulrick
June 18, 2006
4:43 PM

I’m grieved, but not surprised, to hear of the ongoing decay of secular rock music. Historically, rock ‘n roll began as a blend of many different forms of popular music: rhythm and blues, country, blues, and gospel among others. Its heyday—from the mid 1950’s to the present day—has been extraordinarily long compared with past musical trends such as ragtime and swing (each of which lasted maybe twenty years). As I’ve blogged recently, my opinion is that rock artistically played itself out years ago, leaving its present-day practitioners to recycle the spoiled leftovers of a genre that long ago lost any life it may have had.

From the beginning, rock ‘n rollers have been largely unregenerate, so it has always exhibited a strong leaning towards sinful rebellion, but during the last few decades, as the genre has recycled itself to death, I suspect that performers have turned to ever-more-shocking lyrics and performances as a way to simulate excitement and stimulate interest in a form of popular music that, in my opinion, died years ago. As for Christian rock, it has been (by and large) an inferior aping of secular rock, so I’m not sure it ever lived except for perhaps a brief heyday in the 70’s thanks to a handful of fairly talented performers.

Personally, my reaction to today’s popular music has been to investigate the music of the past: both classical music and the various types of popular music that have been in vogue up to the onset of rock ‘n roll: ragtime, swing, early blues, jazz, and country, etc.. (I sometimes joke that my CD collection consists entirely of music that was either composed or performed before my birth. That’s an exaggeration, but not by much.) Although one must still beware of unbiblical content in this music, especially the persistent idolization of emotion-driven “love” in place of Biblical duty-driven love, it comes from a time when sexual wickedness was more in bounds (at least publically) than it has become in my lifetime. As I’ve become acquainted with the popular music of the past, I’ve been amazed by the contrast between it and the music I hear today. The history of Western popular music is a microcosm of the history of Western cultural and moral decline.

Dave


6. susanna
June 18, 2006
6:37 PM

I find this subject a tricky one to tackle…I shamelessly love old U2 and Coldplay as well as a lesser known artist David Gray. There is a power, emotion and talent present in the music of these particular secular artists which unfortunately I find totally lacking in most of today’s Christian music. Also, to my knowledge, the music of these particular groups/artists is clean of immoral/sexual lyrics. If I listened to Christian lyrics all the time, I would do just as well to listen to a light loves song radio station since most of their lyrics could just as well be for dream boy as God. Take the lyrics, “I’m madly in love with you,” those 6 words repeated over and over again like a mantra, sung by Chris Tomlin I believe.

As a music lover, I just can’t find much fulfillment in what I find in the Christian market…the lyrics are shallow, often totally devoid of any passion or obvious Christian lyrics, etc and sound as if they were put together in about 2 minutes…you’d think that music supposedly made to glorify God would be made with more thought and passion. It seems that groups such as Caedmon’s Call have more to offer but in my mind, the pickings worth listening to are few both in the secular and Christian market.

Lastly, I dislike the fact that most Christian artists claim God’s name and than make such a lame and cliche act. At least with the forementioned secular groups, they do not claim God’s name but really produce quality, thought provoking music and lyrics. Isn’t that a shame when they really are not ultimately held to as high a responsiblity level?


7. francisco
June 18, 2006
9:03 PM

Susanna, Looking for a thought-provoking Christian artist? You may want to listen to Keith Green. Dan Edelen says: “…One song by Green carries more punch than an entire day’s listening on most Christian radio stations today”. And it is so influential that even John Piper quoted “There is a Redeemer” (lyrics at http://www.higherpraise.com/lyrics1/ThereIsARedeemer.htm) in Lesson 2 TULIP seminars (http://biblicaltraining.org/audio/TH520/tulip_02.mp3 listen at the end of the tape)

In a review of one of his records, the author says of Green: “In heated, foolish debates that began raging in the Seventies, many Christians questioned the validity of Christian rock music. Among those artists that drew critique was Keith Green … Ironically, today Green’s music resembles the benign easy listening category more so than the seedy, dangerous rock ‘n’ roll it was thought to be at the time. Looking back, Green is far closer to the Carpenters than today’s Cherry Poppin’ Daddies or (dare I say it) Marilyn Manson.” http://www.tollbooth.org/review99/kgreen499a.html

If Green was criticized for using rock and roll, you may wonder what he thought about it. He wrestled with the issue in this article you can read here: http://www.lastdaysministries.org/articles/cangoduserockmusic.html His conclusion? It’s all in the motives.

Grace and Peace, Francisco


8. debtor2grace
June 18, 2006
10:20 PM

Whew! I’m just glad to see Van Halen is not on the list (wipes brow).


9. Chris U
June 18, 2006
10:21 PM

without seeing the video, i must object to the premise that most rock music has these lyrics, if that is indeed what is being said. I would never for a second take spiritual advice from Incubus, who seem to have some kind of new age type thing going, but, i think they say things we could agree with, and very little that is sexual or satanic (unless you say that anythign not glorifying God is satanic, an arguable point) -for example, they have a song called ‘idiot box’ that rails on the effect television has on our culture— not your typical message

not that i’m offended if people don’t listen to secular music, but right now at least as someone in that tweener age, 22, where i still feel connected to the youth/college culture but am also an adult, i don’t think that message, of abstaining, will appeal (and it’s a message i personally do not follow). however i led a bible study once about music and i think youth need to be made aware of what they are sometimes singing, like the story about the Cindi Lauper song. in country music to rap to rock, there are songs that subliminally slip messages while we just sing along.

As far as pop lyrics go, the reason all those teeny boppers sing bad lyrics is because all their songs are written by some unseen people that have a format of what works. gene simmons i don’t think was saying that pop music is inherently satanic- at least i don’t see it that way- but these american idol singers are given a song on their last night to sing that is not written by them. it is inevitable. they’re not winning based on an ability to write or create music. hence, you have clay aiken singing some song about being invisible and watching a girl and having this christian thing going on at the same time. perhaps, hopefully, he wouldn’t have written that himself if he was going to sit down and write a song.

what does this video/what are you/we saying about christian rock? just curious, especially as i hear my roommate blare christian Scream-o rock out of his computer (not my thing, personally).

i don’t know about that keith green guy, i’ve never heard of him, but Susanna there is christian music with depth and talent. i listen to more christian music that would be classified as worship or gospel, but there are a lot of good rock bands out there. the elms, pax 217, the O.C. Supertones, Smalltown poets, and then more mainstream artists like Switchfoot or POD. and groups like Jars of Clay and David Crowder Band are just as much rock as they are worship.


10. wfseube
June 18, 2006
11:53 PM

Interesting topic, considering that I’m virtually on the eve of taking my 16-year-old to the Cornerstone Christian Music Festival (http://www.cornerstonefestival.com). My son listens mostly to Christian rock music (very much into the “Tooth and Nail” records), but also listens to quite a bit of classic secular rock (Bob Dylan is one of his particular faves…). I keep my eye on what he brings in the door, so I’m fairly comfortable with it. Chris mentions the “scream-o” rock - unfortunately, there are a number of “Christian” artists who have pursued this style, and I believe it is an abomination - how can something like that give glory to God? It’s total trash. But, I digress…

I have a lot of the stuff that is objectionable in my old vinyl collection (AC/DC, Ozzy O, etc.), but I haven’t listened to most of it since my pre-Christian years. There are a lot of talented musicians out there in the secular world, but many have wasted their talents on garbage that is antagonistic towards God. What a shame.

bill


11. Vincent
June 19, 2006
1:15 AM

Chris U,

Keith Green was a singer who died tragically in a plane crash in 1982 at the age of 28. His music touched Christians all across the world and still ministers to this day.

If you have some free time I suggest you go on itunes and listen to some short clips of his music.

Also, visit keithgreen.com. There is a great bio of him and the ministry he was involved in, Last Days Ministries.

Vince


12. Matt Mc
June 19, 2006
7:53 AM

As a teenager growing up playing music and listening to whatever I could get my hands on, I was always spiritually confused by the claim that all music not labeled “Christian” is evil. And while this was a good and informed post, I still find some issues with it.

Obviously, I cannot agree with letting children listen to profane music. I cannot agree with Eminem, with Fifty Cent—even with N*Sync. But I also do not see the benefit in writing off all “secular” music as evil. I think the issue of “judge not” in this case more applies to the idea of generalizing and making blind judgments against music that we have not heard.

I say, first and foremost, be careful and knowledgeable about what goes into the ears of our children. Parents, grandparents, uncles and cousins should be aware enough about what these kids are listening to that they know where to draw the line.

But on the same hand, approach the subject with knowledge in your own life. I see nothing wrong with listening to music that is not expressly “Christian” as long as that music does not defame the name of God, or promote immorality.


13. Carly Staley
June 19, 2006
7:58 AM

Susanna: I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a hard time selecting Christian music because so much of it is shallow or just “fake.” But I suggest The Casting Crowns and Todd Agnew to you, since both use Scripture a great deal in their music and are highly committed to the truth. I also suggest learning a whole bunch of hymns!

My guess is that a number of you have heard of Creation— the huge Christian music festival. I’m attending this thing at the end of the month and I already know I’m going to hate it. The way contemporary Christian music is anymore sickens me. Has anyone ever been there?


14. Tom M
June 19, 2006
8:24 AM

Great post,

I just found and ordered a copy. I work with youth and children, and the biggest stuggle is what they listen to and watch on TV. Frankly, we need to return to the holiness we are called to. Holiness is seperation from the world to God. How can we be holy wihtout seperating ourselves from the worldly pleasures and desires?

I remember when I repented of my entertainment. In fact, I think that it is PART of our sanctification, I don’t believe we will reach the full blessings of God if we don’t repent of our wicked entertainment. I used a hammer and detroyed movies, threw away CD’s. I did keep many of my copies of old Heavy Metal tapes I used to listen to as a reminder of where I came from. I sometimes pop them in to remember, but I had to find all new favorites, detroying all my old favorites, the remnence of my life before Christ.


15. Jerry Morningstar
June 19, 2006
8:32 AM

I think discernment is the key on such an issue. Which requires us to think about what we are listening to [or watching] - and ask ourselves what it is doing to us. Is it helpful, neutral or harmful. I agree with a lot of what has been said. Music has a power that touches me. I grew up in the 80s with the rise of heavy metal and Van Halen all the guitar virtuosos. I still love to hear talented guitar playing. I used to think [a debatable point] that secular musicians were sometimes better than the Christian ones because their music or their guitar became their god. I think that may be true in some cases. When i became a Christian - I rejoiced to discover groups like Stryper and White Cross - groups with legitimate talent of the same genre. I am way out of date on the current music but for a few CDs - Casting Crowns has talent and genuine spirituality as well as Mercy Me and the Newsboys. I doubt Keith Green would appeal much to anyone under 30 - although i enjoyed him greatly in my younger days. Music is one of those issues where some good arguments are made - but can easily fall into legalism. e.g. - this Christian doesn’t listen to Def Leppard or Van Halen - but he watches Friends and Seinfeld and whatever current, godless, mindless sitcoms are running today. Is he more spiritual than the guy who listens to Def Leppard? Be filled with the Spirit - use discernment - fill your mind with truth. Thanks for the post, Tim


16. Zach Nielsen
June 19, 2006
8:55 AM

I’ve posted some questions concerning this post here…

http://takeyourvitaminz.blogspot.com/2006/06/hells-bells-2.html

I would love to hear your thoughts on any of them.


17. phil
June 19, 2006
9:48 AM

So how do we handle it when our kids want to buy these CDs? I have children preparing to enter teenhood in a few years. It seems to me that to just say, “No, don’t listen to the devil’s music” smacks of legalistic fundamentalism, and could lead to resentment. Do we sit down with them with the lyrics sheet, discuss which lyrics are honoring to God and which are not (and which are possibly benign), and let them keep the OK ones? Do we forbid it outright, but diatribe on the “why”s of our decision? I’d appreciate anybody’s thoughts here.


18. donsands
June 19, 2006
12:27 PM

phil,

With my daughter, way back when, I introduced her to Christain music, and went to some concerts with her. I did this to help give her a perspective of the world and of the kingdom of Christ. Secular music is unavoidable, and we do simply need to discuss what’s out there. Some of it is forbidden of course. Some is not. I like Bruce Springfield. His LP which had songs he wrote concerning 9-11 is very thought provoking; very moving.

Music is something we surely need to be wise as snakes about.

Good post to read.


19. debtor2grace
June 19, 2006
12:47 PM

I like Bruce Springfield. His LP which had songs he wrote concerning 9-11 is very thought provoking; very moving.<<<

Don, that would be Bruce Springsteen :)


20. Lance Roberts
June 19, 2006
1:10 PM

Rock ‘N Roll is corrupt communication. It is Satan’s mocking of Godly music. It is music to strenghten the flesh, and not the spirit. The beat creates a hypnotic effect that distracts from God.

The question shouldn’t be does a particular piece of music move me, but does it move me closer to God.

Rock ‘N Roll is just one of the many externals that Satan uses in his process of Progressive Ruinification.


21. donsands
June 19, 2006
3:03 PM

I can’t believe i wrote Springfield! Thanks for the correction.

Lance,

Do you think the music is Satanic? That is the different cords and notes and so on? Or is it the whole package; lyrics and music?


22. Lynn
June 19, 2006
3:50 PM

quoted by Chris U.: ” not that i’m offended if people don’t listen to secular music, but right now at least as someone in that tweener age, 22, where i still feel connected to the youth/college culture but am also an adult, i don’t think that message, of abstaining, will appeal (and it’s a message i personally do not follow). however i led a bible study once about music and i think youth need to be made aware of what they are sometimes singing, like the story about the Cindi Lauper song. in country music to rap to rock, there are songs that subliminally slip messages while we just sing along.”

Nothing should ever be about what appeals to a person. Our standard, our manual for living, should be the Bible, and everything we should do should be filtered through that.

It’s a rare thing when I listen to secular music. I have a few reasons, with my main reason being that I prefer to set my things above, and not on things of the earth, as Colossians 3:1-2 tells us to do. I cannot do that if I listen to secular music, because the tunes are catchy, I find myself singing them, either out loud, or in my mind. I don’t want that. If I’m going to sing, I want my songs to be to the glory of God, and about Him. One of my favorite songs is Come Thou Fount, and I would rather be singing that than Tequila Sunrise.

I’m sure someone will call me a legalist, but it’s not legalistic. That is a word that is thrown around much too casually these days. The epistles have excellent verses regarding what our minds should be focused on. And, if we filter what we read, and watch, through Scripture, I would bet that alot of books, CD’s, and movies, etc., would be thrown in the trash.


23. Lynn
June 19, 2006
3:53 PM

quote by Don Sands: “I can’t believe i wrote Springfield! Thanks for the correction.”

For a second there you had me worried, I thought you might have meant Rick Springfield :)


24. Chris U
June 19, 2006
9:10 PM

Col 2:

“16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21”Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.”

Paul writes this immediately before Col 3:1-2. i’m not saying this passage unequivocally means “listen to secular music.” but i think it means it’s not a black and white issue— the bible does not speak clearly on the matter, in my humble opinion.

now if Col 3:1-2 guides your musical habits, great! i just don’t think it need be applied evenly to everyone’s.

“And, if we filter what we read, and watch, through Scripture, I would bet that alot of books, CD’s, and movies, etc., would be thrown in the trash.”

does this mean we should only read christian books? i’ve actually been… compelled to read more and certain types of secular books from the influences of pastors (both those i know or those i read) and what they say/read. the worship pastor at my church was in the rock culture for years, playing with the likes of Bonnie Raitt. he now (in another pastor’s words) “shepherds” a separate congregation, that which he encounters when he plays shows at the blues bar. he plays a mix of gospel and secular music i believe.

maybe it could be said that secular things should only be used to intentionally engage in evangelism. i just think we can’t say “do not listen, do not read, do not watch”, unless we have tested against specific scriptural teachings (so listening to a song that advocates adultery should call for some kind of reaction against)


25. debtor2grace
June 19, 2006
10:55 PM

Chris U., that was a good post. I listen to a variety of music: Christian (alternative/underground and praise/worship mostly - Sovereign Grace specifically, and I like the theologically meaty hymns, Isaac watts and Charles Wesley being faves) Rock, Metal, Old Country, Folk, Bluegrass, Blues, Jazz, Roots, etc…

I ask myself questions when listening to a song like: “What is being said here?” “What is the singer’s intentions, what message is he/she/they conveying?” and “What does God say about what idea or worldview is being advocated here?” I try to filter what I listen to by that. It causes me to abandon listening to many songs.

I don’t just throw a song or artist out because it has a worldview contrary to my own. I can enjoy hearing Bob Dylan, for instance, eloquently state his opinion in song even though I may not agree with everything he says. As a guitarist I appreciate good musicianship and I am mainly attracted to a song for the guitar playing…not necessarily lyrical content, though I listen to the lyrics and if the song crosses what I believe is my spiritual tolerance threshhold I abandon it for good. Same goes for movies also. I completely avoid some of the younger sultry, overtly sexual female singers (Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, etc.) and movies containing graphic sex for obvious reasons.

Before I go I need to rant against CCM. I would much rather listen to someone state an opinion contrary to my beliefs than some of the so-called Christian groups who butcher to Gospel. There has to be a special place in Hell for those who knowingly present a false gospel in an effort to make a “Christian” dollar.


26. omo olurun
June 19, 2006
11:58 PM

  1. I definitely think that we need to use a lot of discernment when we listen to music.

  2. Notice that there is no one in a position of power in the music industry who is true, radical follower of Christ.

  3. Pray for those who are truly confused about what it means to be a Christian and how to Glorify God through their work. i.e Michelle of Destiny’s Child, Bono, etc.

  4. Support those who are doing everything to reach out and touch a generation of youth through music they listen to and relate to. I don’t know about any ministries targeting rock and roll, but I do know of The Cross Movement & ChristianHipHopper.com that are missionaries to the hip hop culture.


27. Francisco
June 20, 2006
12:27 AM

quoted by debtor2grace “Before I go I need to rant against CCM. I would much rather listen to someone state an opinion contrary to my beliefs than some of the so-called Christian groups who butcher to Gospel. There has to be a special place in Hell for those who knowingly present a false gospel in an effort to make a “Christian” dollar. “

In his article “Can God use rock music?” Keith Green concluded this:

“I am convinced that the potential of reaching people for Jesus through the media - whether it be records, radio, movies, or television - is monumental, simply because these are the things that have, and continue to hold, people’s attention. I truly believe that Christians who are completely sold out to God, using these tools, can bring people to their knees in repentance and lead them into the waiting arms of the Savior. But if their lives are not sold out - if their motives are mixed, and their hearts divided - then I only see ridicule and shame brought to the Gospel. And since this is the case so much of the time, it makes it hard and shines a bad light - even on those whose hearts are clean, and whose motives are pure.

I also want to say in closing that yes, I do believe that the Holy Spirit is grieved by a lot of what is being passed today as “music ministry” and “gospel music” - not so much by the beat or content, but by the lack of commitment and anointing. But just because people with darkened hearts still use rock music as a medium for rebellion and self-exaltation, doesn’t mean that the same style of music can’t be used by people submitted to God to capture the attention of sinners; and lead them away from self - and to the throne of Christ!

After all, don’t many cults use the same Bible that we cherish as God’s Holy Word, and yet distort and twist the meaning “to their own destruction”? And didn’t the devil himself quote Scripture to Jesus? As you can see, a wicked heart can pervert even the most holy and beautiful of things. And in the same way, God can take even the filthiest of vessels and use it for His glory. (Just look at you and me!) Believe me, if your heart is right, then your music will be right too. But if your heart is full of selfishness and pride, then even if you sing the sweetest hymn, your song will work death and not life. For…

“A good man, out of the good treasure of his heart, brings forth what is good, and an evil man, out of the evil treasure, brings forth what is evil, for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.” (Matthew 12:35)


28. donsands
June 20, 2006
9:11 AM

That Keith Green quote was excellent.


29. Warren
June 20, 2006
9:45 AM

Tim

I found a copy of Hell’s Bells on Amazon this morning when looking for Hell’s Bells 2. It’s retailing for $49.95.


30. PuritanD
June 20, 2006
10:23 AM

Tim,

You did a post on [i]Hell’s Bells[/i] not too terribly long ago and I decided recently to search it out and found the second one, ordering it through Amazon for $32. I too have been perplexed with music today.

Working with youth, I have observed that today’s teens more identify with their music than ever before. This may be due to technological advances such as headphones and ipods. I had kids “dying” during a retreat because they were not allowed to listen to their music until the return trip home. We had to make an emergency stop for batteries for one girl so she could have her music. I found it fairly humorous that she went a weekend without, but now had regain access to it and did not know what to do without it.

Sadly, I also have a guy who’s mom finally toss out some of the worst rap music ever made from his room a couple of days after his baptism. He has not been back to church since then. It has grieved his mom and I terribly to see such hard fought connections with secular music today.

I have even asked kids if they could give up their music if Christ asked them and many hesitated, They freely gave up everything else but music. It makes one think what is exactly their god.

I have only viewed half of [i]Hell’s Bells 2[/i] and it has startled me. I do not know how to give out this information to my youth, but am leaning towards a weekend retreat enviroment. This stuff is good food to think on.

Respectfully,


31. Chris U
June 20, 2006
1:49 PM

teens that get that enamored with music and the new technology, i think we should partly be talking about parenting (both by parents and by other adults), or education, things like that… not just the music and the technology. i have an ipod, i like it alot, yes, but there is this new kind of obsession today

i actually read an article in time magazine a few mths ago talking about how this generation of youth is ‘gen M’, for multi-tasking, as they observed kids with one earphone of ipod in, cellphone on other ear, typing away on computer… ha i probably could be caught like that occasionally, but i guess it’s becoming more commonplace.

but again, i see parents and try to learn from parents whose kids are not like that. again, i think it doesn’t just point at the music. maybe we should have a retreat for parents…


32. Lynn
June 20, 2006
3:58 PM

Quote by Chris U: “does this mean we should only read christian books? i’ve actually been… compelled to read more and certain types of secular books from the influences of pastors (both those i know or those i read) and what they say/read. the worship pastor at my church was in the rock culture for years, playing with the likes of Bonnie Raitt. he now (in another pastor’s words) “shepherds” a separate congregation, that which he encounters when he plays shows at the blues bar. he plays a mix of gospel and secular music i believe.”

No, I’m not saying that we should only read Christian books, or listen only to “Christian” music, I’m saying we need to filter everything we watch, read, and listen to, through Scripture.

It’s my preference not to listen to secular music often. I think there is very little of value on TV, nor in the movies, and I do believe that if Christians would filter things through Scripture that they wouldn’t be watching alot of what is being watched.

And, I do read secular books, I like Jane Austen myself.


33. donsands
June 20, 2006
10:10 PM

lynn,

I am humbled by your convictions. Though I may differ in mine, I admire how you are walking with our Savior.

Have a blessed evening in His rest. Matt. 11:28-29


34. Lynn
June 21, 2006
10:18 AM

quoted by donsands: “I am humbled by your convictions. Though I may differ in mine, I admire how you are walking with our Savior.

Have a blessed evening in His rest. Matt. 11:28-29”

Thank you for the compliment. I give the Lord all the credit for how He has changed my life. He has given me a peace, and a rest that I never knew before.


35. Renee
June 21, 2006
6:48 PM

Great write up Tim. I enjoyed Hell’s Bells 2 and learned a lot from it. I would also recommend their shorter video “Sounds of War- Rock, Rap and the Spiritual World”. It uses some of the video footage from HB2, is a about an hour long, but packs a punch. It appears the primary audience of the Sounds of War is the current MTV viewer (unbelievers and professed believers).


36. Lance Roberts
June 22, 2006
12:24 PM

“Do you think the music is Satanic? That is the different cords and notes and so on? Or is it the whole package; lyrics and music?”

I think Rock ‘N Roll music by itself is Satanic. The individual notes are neutral, but just like letters can be put together for evil & corrupt communication, so can notes.

As someone still trying to get over his R&R addition, I can tell you it’s pretty hard. The basic addiction for R&R music is adrenaline, since the rock beat works contrary to the body’s rhythm, and kicks in the fight or flight reflex, causing an adrenaline upsurge. Of course it’s also working on an emotional level. It’s sad to see so many young men & women caught up in it.

The Bible says to take ALL thoughts into captivity, and in Phillipians it lays out a lot of parameters: virtue, purity, etc…


37. Darius
June 22, 2006
4:54 PM

The media is a terrible influence on kids, without a doubt. Young ones as well as teens. I just heard a report on NPR citing the media as one of three major influences that are sexualizing children at an earlier and earlier age.


38. donsands
June 22, 2006
7:51 PM

lance,

Is adrenaline a spiritual sin? I don’t understand? What’s adrenaline got to do with it?

I also wonder where this is in Scripture: “the rock beat works contrary to the body’s rhythm”.


39. Lance Roberts
June 22, 2006
8:46 PM

“Is adrenaline a spiritual sin? I don’t understand? What’s adrenaline got to do with it?”

No, adrenaline is a hormone (I think). I was pointing out why R&R is so addictive. There are a lot of addictions that are adrenaline related. Sexual addiction has a large component of it, because the shame produced also causes an adrenaline kick.

“I also wonder where this is in Scripture: “the rock beat works contrary to the body’s rhythm”.”

I haven’t seen it anywhere in scripture, it’s just a physiological fact. It’s just one of the problems with R&R, one of many.


40. donsands
June 22, 2006
9:44 PM

“it’s a physiological fact”

It’s a physiological fact? I must say I am totally bewildered with your argument. Let’s just say I disagree with you. Maybe it’s not a physiological fact.

I know when we see the Lord in glory we will know whether it was a physiological fact or not.


41. Lance Roberts
June 23, 2006
3:44 PM

You can know before then if it’s a fact or not by doing some research, though I too am looking forward to be able to ask some of the hard questions.


42. Tim
June 25, 2006
6:28 PM

Guys,

I offer HB2 for $29.99 with free shipping when you contact me by email.

While I agree that we should not become legalists, I think many of you that “enjoy” “secular music” should simply ask these questions: Why do I enjoy it? Do the lyrics lead me on in sanctification and holiness? Do they cause me to think of things that are lovely, pure and holy? Does the music actually feed my flesh rather than the spirit? There are others I could ask, but I am suspecting that if we truly answer these questions honestly, that we would determine where our affections are in this area. I’ll be honest that much of the music world, including those in “Christian music” fulfill the desires of my flesh (ie. pride, arrogance, sexual, hypocrisy, etc). Therefore, for the vast majority of music, the issue is simply that I don’t usually engage in it.


43. Jabbok
June 25, 2006
8:07 PM

I’ve avoided this topic since Tim posted this article. I would like to say that I had much rather listen to a good guitar solo than to some of the organ music that I hear at church. I’ve never felt edified from listening to one of those screaching instruments!

I’m a lover of the guitar and I really couldn’t tell you what the lyrics are to some of the songs I enjoy but I try to play those licks!


44. Caleb
June 26, 2006
1:00 AM

I’ve been in a band for the last three years with 3 non-Christians. We play a mix of dub, funk, rock, etc. and are most comparable to the Police, though we rock harder.

As the guy in charge of the beat AND the lyrics, I am free to sing what I like. In some cases that’s faith - “Gotta hold on for dear life, keep reaching for the light, we walk by faith, not by sight.” It can also be about my love for my wife - “Baby, baby, I’m proud just to know you.”

I love the music because it’s a beautiful, emotional, conversational thing. The beat thrills me, and why shouldn’t it? It’s a God-given gift to play the drums and express myself.

I listen to music fairly passively in terms of my body’s response - my wife has been persuading me to dance since we got together - but passionately in terms of my ears’ response, and my mind and soul’s response. I’ve seen people dance to music I’ve written, and that music has had a rock beat that I’ve learned from listening to secular music. It ain’t no crime, it’s a part of life, just like love, just like wine, and it’s the make-up of the person, and their own decisions that determine whether or not that thing is good or bad for them.

I’ve thrown out CDs, too, and if I determine that my music comes between me and God, maybe I should throw it out, too, OR maybe exercise some discipline and show some restraint, and moderate my intake.

Is work evil? No, yet you still get workaholics.

Defensive rant over. :)


45. Rony
June 26, 2006
4:31 AM

This is a very good article. I am a citizen journalist and for the past few months have been trying to interview various Rock band groups in Indian sub-continent and find out their way of Living. Let me tell you some famous qoutes from various interviews: “There is nothing called Rock Music. Rock is just an attitude”by Palash Sen of famous band Euphoria. “A Rock Singer just cannot make his living by singing in India” by Jayasree S. of Skinny Alley. There was one band member named Arjun Kaul of Prithvi who even went to the extent of saying that “The Rock Music Industry can outgrow the BPO sector in India.” All these interviews are posted on the special issue of www.merines.com. However if any of you are interested the link of the last interview is given below: http://www.merinews.com/newsPortal/JSP/catFull.jsp?articleID=231&catID=6&category=Arts


46. Randy
June 26, 2006
2:03 PM

I was a Youth Pastor when “Hell’s Bells” came out years ago. I showed portions to my youth group but to be honest there were some humorous moments in the program that were not intended to be by Holmberg . I am not sure how effective such programs are and in my opinion probably may have an opposite effect. To be honest most of the kids in my Church listen to and watch Country Music videos rather than Rock nowadays. Also some of the groups and music that appear on this DVD will no doubt be yesterday’s newspaper within a year or two.


47. Caleb
June 26, 2006
6:51 PM

“…there were some humorous moments in the program that were not intended to be by Holmberg . I am not sure how effective such programs are and in my opinion probably may have an opposite effect.”

That’s a good point, Randy. I can remember seeing Hells Bell or a video like it, and it had the same effect as hearing your Dad try to use whatever ‘in’ phrases are going around. Sometimes these whistle-blowers aren’t too far off being an exaggerated charicature of themselves, if you know what I mean.


48. Brandon Giromini
June 29, 2006
10:17 AM

Tim,

The Gene Simmons quote I have read before and is cuts to the heart of what rock music is all about. David Cloud did a huge article on the fruits of those involved in rock n roll starting back in the 50’s. Jerry Lee Lewis said similar things in his time in regard what rock music was all about.

http://wayoflife.org/fbns/1950srock.htm


49. joythruchrist
July 1, 2006
6:03 PM

Tim, She Bop? I had no idea!!!??? ick

My thoughts grabbed on to the comment about music being a god. It is an extremely powerful influence on our lives and it is everywhere. Even in the elevator and doctor’s office. That’s why discernment is the key.

I personally love many types of music. Jazz, classical, some contemporary Christian, orchestra, etc. At times I get on kicks and listen to a certain group for days. I often go back to Steely Dan because I absolutely love the instrumental part of their music. I play bass, and I pick out the bass in most of the music I listen to.

The thing is, the lyrics start to jump out at me and disturb my spirit. You can’t escape the lyrics.

Then I return to Steve Bell, and my spirit is edified. Anyone heard of him? Definitely worth a listen. I also often return to Keith Green.

Jen


50. dprocket
July 1, 2006
11:25 PM

This is an interesting topic for me. I grew up listening to Christian music. My mom was very into a worship group that I think is called Maranatha Singers and they had a bunch of tapes (now CDs) called Praise 1, Praise 2….Praise 8, etc.

I listened to Steve Green quite a bit in my early teenage years. I got into some hard core rap as a teen and eventually immersed myself in rock music. I was a high schooler when the “grunge” rock scene hit strong in the early nineties and I fell in love. For the next 10 years, I was really into the likes of Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains and Billy Corgan. I began to be a HUGE fan of these and collected all kinds of stuff, bought bootleg copies of concerts etc. As I was really into this, I didn’t even realize how far away from God I really was. I can remember listening to a song by my favorite band that blared the lyrics: “God is empty… just like me” and I didn’t even pause at that. In fact, I found that I could simply “look over” that kind of thing and continue to enjoy it.

Over the past 7 years, I’ve grown closer in my walk with Christ. I remember after graduating from college and after some circumstances in my life nudged by back into fellowship with God I started to wonder about my music. It was something that I still enjoyed, and to be honest, other than the aforementioned lyrics (and other equally defaming lryics) as a whole I began to think that I could still listen to it without it being a problem at all.

I believe that one work of the Spirit is bringing conviction and opening the eyes of the heart open to sin in one’s life (ie, I may be doing something sinful for a long time that I may not even realize is sin). As the Spirit began to peel back layers, I began making changes in my life. I can remember one day deciding that I would no longer ruin my testimony and eliminate people that I could ever share the gospel with by drinking with co-workers on business trips. But I never got to the point of saying “no more rock music”. I find it phenomenal that as I’ve grown closer to God, my desire for that type of music has simply been weened so to speak.

Don’t get me wrong, If I hear a Pearl Jam song sometime by chance, I’ll tap my foot along and still remember the enjoyment I received, but I have about 500 cd’s in my basement that I haven’t touched for about 4 years.

The point that I think I am trying to get across is that one who is right with God, who is actively seeking him and being controlled by the Spirit will not have a desire for those things that are blasephemous, idolatrous or anti-Christ.


51. cowlifornia_girl
July 2, 2006
4:22 AM

Dittos to dprockets. Great post. “Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit saith the Lord of hosts.”

I’m always amazed when Christians get upset over the behavior of those outside the camp. Those people do not know Christ. They are spiritually blind and cannot see or understand what they are doing. Can anything else be expected from them? After all, a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

We should all be concerned, however, about what takes place inside the camp. When the same sin behavior exhibited by the lost is repackaged and slapped with the Christian label, the trumpet should give a clear sound of warning. Too many Christians today put their trust in what they think, feel, or experience instead of a “Thus saith the Lord” and this, I believe, is what has led to the declining state of CCM today.

I agree with everything said about Keith Green but I’d have to say Jerry Williams (formally of Harvest) is the best today imo. Wayne Watson, Steve Camp, Michael Card, and Dallas Holm are also very good. All of these men have solid spiritual foundations and it shows in their music. The best newer artist is Todd Agnew.

Here’s an example of what Christian music is meant to be.

Lingering Here With You Jerry Williams

It’s early, there’s still not a sound coming from all the rooms and these walls It’s so good, lingering here with You. But often, in moments like these, I fall easy prey to my lazier ways and broken Promises made to You

(Chorus) Don’t let this burning hunger that’s raging in my heart Don’t let it fade or wander just keep me in the palm of Your hand.

For so long I’ve wanted to be much more than You’ve been able to see But memories still have a hold on me Please tell me will I ever see beyond the fear that lingers in me? Is it true, can I be more like You?

Take my life in your hands, Lord, change me inside Make me a man who’s willing to die Jesus, I want to be more like you So whatever it takes I want to be The man that you’ve called and want me to be Jesus I’m down on my knees Please make me a holy man.

It’s early, there’s still not a sound coming from all the rooms and these walls It’s so good, lingering here with You.

For those interested, all of his music, including reissues of all his Harvest classics, can be found at http://epicministries.org/browse_product.php