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Friday January 4, 2008

Endorsing the Endorsers

On Wednesday, Justin Taylor posted the news that my book is now available and provided a list of the blurbs for it. This led to some interesting discussion in the comments section. It began with the entirely fair question of “Who is Tim Challies?” and soon turned to “I was just surprised that, as his website says, a web designing blogger now writes books on spiritual discernment. When did our pastors and bible teachers quit doing this and your laypeople assume the roll?” Another person replied with, “I like TC’s blog; but I guess if you live-blog at enough famous pastors Bible conferences then you can get endorsements from just about anyone.” This led to a bit of a screed penned by Steve Camp who said, among other things, that this book is my attempt to make a mark and gain my fifteen minutes of fame, that I am young, theologically immature, and untested in handling God’s Word, that I know little about discernment, that I’m insecure and lack credibility, and so on. The discussion has gone on, though some rather important comments have since been erased. All this by way of background.

Now I’m not in the habit of defending myself against specious claims. Truthfully, and thankfully, it is quite rare that these things happen, but even then I’m not often compelled to invest time and effort in my own defense. I’ve got more important things to do, and this is especially true today. But I do want to take a few moments to respond to something else Camp says about the book’s endorsements and endorsers. Here is what Camp says:

As to endorsements: very few of these guys actually sit down and read through an entire book of any author they are asked to review. Most give a thumbs up through staff recommendations or because of friendship.

In other words, Camp hints, these endorsements are utterly meaningless, or nearly so. These people endorsed the book only because they felt they needed to or because someone told them to. There are two reasons I would like to address this statement. First, because it is a common belief that endorsements are meaningless and second because it reflects negatively on the people who were kind enough to provide an endorsement for my book.

Now it is widely assumed that many of the people who write endorsements for books do so without actually reading the books. And certainly this does happen in the Christian world and beyond. More commonly, though, you would find that certain endorsers do not read a book thoroughly. They may skim through, take in the major points, and on the basis of what they know about the author, craft an endorsement. There are definitely some who have enough of an organization around them that they would have trusted men or women speaking for them, writing endorsements in their name even while they have never actually even heard of the book. But I am sure this is less common than people who simply do not read the book thoroughly. Far more common, though, are people who really do read the books and who read them carefully, knowing that an endorsement is serious business. This would be particularly true with mature, biblical Christians who truly value truth. Over the past few months I have endorsed a half a dozen books or so, and am constantly aware that adding my name to the back of a book is a reflection on the author, on me, and on God. Perhaps in time I will grow more jaded and provide endorsements with less care. I hope and pray I do not.

Enough then, on the first matter, and on to the second. My concern here, and I think the concern is validated by some of the comments following Camp’s, is that his statements will cause people to think negatively of the individuals who endorsed my book. I would not wish anyone to think that these people simply dashed off a blurb with little thought, concern or reflection. Neither do I believe that any of them accepted my request for an endorsement out of some sense of obligation that may have compelled them to rush a half-hearted endorsement.

I am not a peer to these people. With just one exception, I have spent very little time with any of them. I may have emailed back and forth with some of them a handful of times and have spent a few brief moments with them at conferences, but really I barely know them. All this to say that none of them owe me anything; none of them would be out to do me a favor out of obligation or out of a sense of “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine.” After all, I have little to offer them by way of repayment and have done very little for them in the past! There well may be some trading of favors in the industry when it comes to endorsements, but you can rest assured that none of these people would have felt they owed me for whatever I may have done to somehow benefit them. Give them more credit than that.

Admittedly, I did not consider writing those who endorsed my book to ask, “Did you really read it?” as that would have been both rude and, I believe, unnecessary. However, several of them inadvertently furnished ample evidence that they really did read it and that they did so in some depth. For example, one of the people who endorsed the book called me several times as he read it, either to clarify certain statements or to challenge me on areas that were either overstated or that lacked clarity. He went so far as to even call other people to double check certain facts. This man takes clearly endorsements seriously. Read Nancy Pearcey’s Total Truth, and particularly the last few pages, and you’ll see that she is adamantly opposed to ghost writing as she finds it utterly inconsistent with a Christian worldview. Nancy has been a friend of my family’s for years and I know her well enough to understand that she would have read the book carefully and would not have written an endorsement had she not felt she could do so with clear conscience. In another case a third party told me of his discussions about the book with the person who endorsed it. In each of these cases it is clear to me that the person really did read the book. In fact, my confidence in endorsements has increased, rather than decreased, through this process.

There are some authors from whom an endorsement means very little to me. I have learned that they will endorse just about anything and after a while I feel they destroy their credibility. But in having even only brief interaction with the people who wrote a blurb for my book, I can vouch for them and am confident that an endorsement from their hand is meaningful. I look for their names on books, knowing that they take seriously the task of endorsing a book. I trust them and am grateful that they were willing to take the time to read even my book.

In a future article I’ll look at another question that has come up a few times both at Justin’s site and beyond—the question of why a person should read a book written by a lay-person or by someone with the less-than-impressive credentials I offer.


By way of update, I wanted the readers to know that Camp posted this:

*To All I want to publicly ask forgiveness for my initial comment concerning Tim and his book. My words could have been seasoned with more grace and chosen more carefully.

The main question here raised is worth discussing from a biblical worldview and should be considered with sobriety of heart and mind: What qualifies one to speak for God and His Word?

I pray that many here dedicated to biblical ministry will continue to provide helpful and biblical responses to this question as I hope to do in the coming days as well.

To those who sought to use excessive vitriol against me for sport, I hold no ought against you. You wouldn’t have been provoked to do so if my initial words were thought through more carefully.

HIs unworthy servant in His unfailing love,

Steve 2 Cor. 4:5-7 *

Comments (53) »


1. Julian Freeman
January 4, 2008
11:19 AM

Thanks for this, Tim.

I couldn’t help but notice a few important things in the discussion on JT’s blog, that seemed to be going unnoticed.

1) Since when have evangelicals placed such a huge distinction between ‘pastors’ and ‘laypeople’? Seems to me that the NT is full of instructions for those in the church to ‘admonish’ and ‘exhort’ one another. Shouldn’t being a Spirit-indwelt, active church-member, living a godly life be qualification enough?

2) Amidst all the conspiracy theories about why people would stoop so low as to endorse your book, I couldn’t help but notice—as you did here—that the character of these men and women is being impugned in an attempt to belittle you and your work. So all of a sudden, people like Camp who make it out like they have a high view of the church are standing in judgment over pastors like Mark Dever and John MacArthur (whom Camp refers to as his ‘friend’).

3) Again, in the midst of these arguments that we need a higher estimation of the local church, why didn’t anyone stop to ask the elders or pastoral staff of your church if you’re qualified to speak to believers? Why haven’t they asked if you would be allowed to preach in your local church? If you are allowed to preach and teach God’s word where you life and family are known, why would you not be allowed to publish for the church at large?


2. Tim
January 4, 2008
11:20 AM

What I’ve enjoyed most about watching the progress of your website and your book is what I clearly see as God’s Providence. I believe the Lord has been involved with your work and the Lord can use whomever He pleases regardless of their “Credentials”!

Credentials are a funny thing. I have four years of College Greek and three years of Seminary Greek. I can read out of the Greek New Testament with some proficiency and I know my way around it pretty well but I only have a BA and I currently teach Truck Driving so some would say that I lack “Credentials”.

You mentioned, in your book, about Author W. Pink abandoning the church. He wasn’t a pastor or even a faithful lay person but his books are read and viewed as being very Spiritual and Mature.

I’m surprised by Mr. Camp’s comments but I do understand his concerns. However, I noticed that he was quick to point out that John MacArthur is his friend. I guess Steve will be asking John for an endorsement when his book comes out.


3. Matt
January 4, 2008
11:25 AM

To Camp I say “whatever dude.”

I will admit that the endorsement thing is wearing thin, in that Piper, Mohler, Mahaney, Duncan, etc., have created a sort of cottage industry as the official endorsers. Each endorsement coming with attempts at keener and more clever quips.
Anymore I see a book coming from within “these circles” and think: “Let me guess: Piper, Mohler, Mahaney, or Ducan, found it to be ‘a special gift to the church.’”

But I’m assuming that these endorsements are very helpful for the sale of a book?


4. Bibliomaniac
January 4, 2008
11:30 AM

Steve Camp who said, among other things, that this book is my attempt to make a mark and gain my fifteen minutes of fame, that I am young, theologically immature, and untested in handling God’s Word, that I know little about discernment, that I’m insecure and lack credibility, and so on.

I haven’t checked on Steve Camp’s little screed yet, but if it’s true he said all this, I’m extremely disappointed in him. A person of his stature has far too much time on his hands if he’s got to fill it up by firing ad hominem attacks at a fellow believer who is launching his career as an author (as opposed to dealing with substantive issues of the faith).

I’ve worked in Christian publishing for 25 years. What you say about endorsements is basically true, but I’ll add this: I’m familiar with most of the individuals who gave you endorsements. While most of them probably did not read your book from cover to cover, most (if not all) of them ARE careful about where they lend their name in terms of endorsements, and most likely did so on a combination of factors: They or their personal assistants offered their endorsements because they reviewed enough of the contents of your book to know they could back it, they knew your spiritual character, they knew you are careful about how you handle God’s Word, etc.

Those of us in publishing who work with securing endorsements know the reputations of those who lend their names to endorse books. We know which endorsers are great to have and hard to get, and which ones are careless about whom they endorse or give out their name too generously. At this moment I don’t recall all the names who offered endorsements to you, but I do remember being significantly impressed (from a publishing insider’s standpoint) with most of the names you obtained.

Don’t worry too much about defending yourself. In time, people will come to know your character, and will know whether the accusations from superfluous critics like Steve Camp can be believed.


5. don gale
January 4, 2008
11:30 AM

Tim,
I read JT’s original post, but missed all of the commenting. I just went and read it all and honestly, it angers me what some have said and implied about you. It’s true, anyone can write a book and anyone can be published these days. And, yes, there are millions of awful books, even awful “Christian” books available. Ultimately, the reader must use discernment and weigh things read against Scripture and decide for himself the quality of a book and its author. I, along with I’m sure many others, can say that having read the things I’ve read of yours and having seen your reaction to this debacle, you’ve shown your quality. The Spirit is in you as much as He’s in John Piper, John Owen, or anyone else. Thanks for your writing and your example. Let the scoffers scoff. Don’t be discouraged. I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about reading someone with little or no credentials.


6. Bibliomaniac
January 4, 2008
11:33 AM

Matt wrote: But I’m assuming that these endorsements are very helpful for the sale of a book?

There’s a huge debate among publishing insiders about this very thing. I don’t have time to comment on it now, but if I find time later, I’ll come back and comment on this.


7. MarieP
January 4, 2008
11:36 AM

I got my copy yesterday! Thank you!!! It is next on my reading list :-)


8. jake meador
January 4, 2008
11:36 AM

Tim - Thanks for posting this. Great thoughts, and handled graciously :).


9. Josh
January 4, 2008
11:53 AM

I’m just a typical book buyer here, but I generally look at two things when buying a Christian book. The publisher first, and then the recommendations. I won’t even pick up some publishers books to check the endorsements in the first place. The endorsements matter because I don’t know know enough about some subjects to make a good decision—which is why I’m trying to read up on it in the first place.

I never considered some folks might just stamp their name on a book. That would be very unethical wouldn’t it? Not something I would expect from pastors, etc.


10. Phillip Johnson
January 4, 2008
12:00 PM

I’ve read your book twice now, Tim (once when it was just a manuscript and now in the finished version). It’s a fine book. (Even though you stepped on my toes in a couple of places.) And if people who haven’t even read the book are questioning whether a layperson like you (best known for being a Berean) has a right to write about the basic principles of discernment—well, in my mind that’s simply proof of how appallingly short of true discernment the church today is, and how desperately needed your book is.

Incidentally, it’s true that pastors are the main ones who ought to be teaching their people how to be discerning. The fact that so many don’t is not to your shame, but to theirs.

Congrats on the book. I’m glad to add it to my shelf. It fills a major gap in my library. I think it’s the first really good book on discernment I’ve seen since the mid ’90s. That in and of itself is another definitive argument against the naysayers.


11. Trillia
January 4, 2008
12:09 PM

Tim,

I don’t know you all that well but what I have learned through reading your blog and our brief interactions is that you are humble. You do not think highly of yourself, you are submitted to God’s Word. Thanks for your humility and desire to glorify God in all you do. Thank you for writing this book. By the way, if I remember from reading your book correctly Justin Taylor and Josh Harris encouraged you to write the book- just a side note. Don’t grow weary in doing good Tim! God gives grace to the humble. I pray you will not become jaded too. Another side note- My son and I listened to your Moody interviews this morning!


12. Michael Spencer
January 4, 2008
12:15 PM

The RCC has an imprimatur system and a magisterium. Are some of our reformed brothers longing for a little authority system to keep the laity in line.

Good grief. Didn’t we give the laity the Bible in their own language so that every plowman and servant girl could, in their way, be a preacher and teacher where God has put them?

Congrats on the book, Tim. I read your early mss and found it well written and practical. You and I disagree on much on the topic of discernment, but not at all on the importance of the laity to teach the church in an informal way.

peace iMonk


13. Robert Duffy
January 4, 2008
12:26 PM

As I recall, folks treated the Apostle Paul the same way, along with the other apostles and early disciples. Calvin, Luther, Bunyan, Spurgeon…you’re in good company, Tim. Keep up the good work, you only have one Master to please.


14. Stephen Newell
January 4, 2008
12:28 PM

Tim, let me say that I will be praying for you. This was the first I’d heard of any questions about you or your book. My first reaction upon going back to JT’s and reading the comments was to be very angry at and ashamed of those who claim to be brothers and sisters in Christ.

But then a little voice called Scripture reminded me to rejoice when we are mocked and slandered. Another little voice, based on Scripture, reminded me not to let these minions of Satan steal my joy. And yet another small, Scripture-based voice reminded me that sometimes we must become a bruised reed in order to mature.

So instead I will rejoice that your name has been slandered and that people are trying to steal your joy. It is a stamp of honor rather than dishonor! I pray that you are lifted up to greater discernment and greater ability to glorify God through this little book of yours and all that surrounds it. I pray you will not be battered about by these shifting winds (and they’re all shifting winds), but will remain solidly rooted on the Rock that caused you to produce this book.

Much love to you, brother!


15. Ray Miller
January 4, 2008
12:29 PM

Tim:
A discerning comment ( I hope! ):

Why is it that negative comments far exceed the positive ones in capturing and ruling our conscious and subconscious thoughts? We tend to major on the negative responses and let them fire our emotions. This is no small issue but rather it is a real battle for the spiritual well being of our souls. The positive and negative responses to the publication and endorsement of your book are illustrations of the intent of your book. Discerning Christians who are truly led by the Spirit will recognize the spiritual forces at work in all of this “chatter” about your book.

The fact that you allow comments by respondents to your blog to be published instantly reveal your honesty and integrity in allowing these comments to be publically available whether these comments encourage or discourage you. Being vulnerable to the negative barbs by others is not a mundane risk of hosting a blog but is a true test of character. When these darts are not allowed to penetrate deep within to the very boundary of soul and spirit then this test of character is a display of the victory of our faith.

One positive about the negative:
Isn’t it ironic that negative comments often help in promoting a book. People become interested in the buzz surrounding these comments, as awful as they are, and will be drawn to read a book because of the negative publicity.


16. Mrs. J.D.Darr
January 4, 2008
12:34 PM

Tim,
I hate to sound like a mom, but I think they’re just jealous! I am proud that you are our brother in Christ, and so proud of your book that I have praised it as if it were my own. I was excited to see Phil Johnson the awesome Pyromanic supporting you! Everybody here loves you as you can see in the posts, all are well said. I was glad to see the iMonk too! To see Mr. Johnson and Mr. Spencer both graciously endorsing your book, says alot. God Bless You All.


17. candyinsierras
January 4, 2008
12:47 PM

Tim. You are surely a gracious guy! I am not as gracious as you in my comments over at JT’s blog. I am glad you are obedient to what God call you to do, and hope God continues to bless you abundantly. Thanks for the hard work involved in writing your book.


18. Jake Hunt
January 4, 2008
12:49 PM

I too was astounded by some of the comments at BTW. It seems like a no-brainer to me that a book is weighed on the merits. You don’t have to be a member of a certain club to write a book, you just have to find a publisher! And as one person said on BTW, if a solid publisher like Crossway thinks enough of your book to put it out, then we should read it and then decide if Tim has the chops to be an author!

The comments also underestimate the reality of the blogosphere. Certainly any idiot can start a blog (I mean, I have one!), but Tim’s not any idiot, and there are hundreds of well-written articles on Challies.com that are on record to support that fact. He didn’t just drop out of the sky with this book; he’s been making positive contributions to the evangelical world, and the book is one more.

People are certainly free to read Tim’s book and then decide they’re not fans, but to act as though he doesn’t have the right to be published is just silly.


19. ChrisB
January 4, 2008
12:51 PM

“When did our pastors and bible teachers quit doing this and your laypeople assume the roll?”

When I first heard about Tim’s book some months back, I hadn’t even visited this site. At that time I saw similar comments — who is he to write a book? Where did he go to seminary?

My response was and is that many fine Christian thinkers have not been to a conventional seminary. Tim went to the same seminary as CS Lewis and Spurgeon and Bunyan. We should read everything with careful discernment and the Bible in hand whether the author went to seminary or not, but the final work should be judged based on its quality, not the credentials of the author.


20. Jeri
January 4, 2008
12:58 PM

I had no idea such a “controversy” was brewing. You know, all kinds of laypeople write and communicate publicly; they write blogs, articles for magazines, and songs. They write these things because they think they have something beneficial and true to say, that will edify the church, and bring glory to God. How do we judge that and tell if it’s so? Should these laypeople be writing these blogs and articles and songs?

It’s not unknown in church history for God to use laypeople to teach. From the Bible we see the tentmakers Priscilla and Aquilla (who partnered with Paul and corrected Apollos’ understanding); Luke, a mere medical doctor who God used to write His inerrant word; and possibly the author of Hebrews (we don’t know who he was or what his credentials were; that’s pretty bad!) And then there were all the anonymous saints that Paul addressed in various letters, endorsing the gift and calling of “teacher” as a spiritual gift, given to the church by God.

As for post-canonical, uninspired writers and teachers and authors, there are laypeople like Nancy Pearcy, Chuck Colson, Joni Eareckson Tada and others who have written books accepted as sound and biblical by godly leaders in the church.

As for endorsing the endorsers, that is probably a good thing to come to the forefront. Pastors and other leaders who endorse should carefully read and test all that they put their name and reputation to. In spite of what may not have been a charitable way of bringing up the issue, it’s probably good for it to be talked about and thought deeply about.


21. stephen h.
January 4, 2008
12:59 PM

candy,

you were also wrong on JT’s blog


so it all evens out


22. francisco
January 4, 2008
1:01 PM

Tim,
One scripture verse here to encourage you in the light of all this ballyhoo:
“You have put more joy in my heart than they have when their grain and wine abound” (Psalm 4:7)

another man happy in Jesus,

Francisco


23. Jeremiah
January 4, 2008
1:01 PM

Tim,

I listened to your interview with Greg Wheatly last night. I was the guy who kept trying to call in to the show and question the discernment of one who repeatedly slanders the great state of Ohio. Not sure why they wouldn’t put me on.

Seriously, I look forward to reading the book,
Jeremiah


24. Don Moore
January 4, 2008
1:02 PM

ChrisB,


you’ve missed the point(e)!!!!!!


Spurgeon—pastor!

Bunyan—pastor!

Lewis—professor!


no one said a seminary degree is required


25. David Wallace
January 4, 2008
1:20 PM

Woah - who would have thought that people would actually invest that much time and effort into seeking to destroy reputations because it’s a first book?

As some have noted, the Reformation broke from the RCC to put the Scriptures and the right to examine and exhort one another back into the hands of the ‘laity’. I find the idea that somehow there is a class of superChristians who are over and above us hoi poloi perhaps the most repugnant idea in all of this ballyhoo. Since when did we get back into the making of Saints that can speak no ill that are seperate and distinct from the great unwashed rabble that should fill the pews and shut up except to voice plattitudes to the Parson (ie, ‘person’ as distinct from us non-persons)?

With Stephen Newell above, I rejoice at the attacks you have undergone and have little doubt detracters who have written in the style of Camp will have little option but to look back with embarassment at their words or give account to the Great Judge.


26. cyd
January 4, 2008
1:20 PM

Congratulations on you new book Tim. I look forward to reading it.
I do not presume to speak for Steve, but in all fairness I think his comments were misinterpreted. For example, when he stated this:
“very few of these guys actually sit down and read through an entire book of any author they are asked to review. Most give a thumbs up through staff recommendations or because of friendship.” You reiterated much the same thing by stating the following:
“Now it is widely assumed that many of the people who write endorsements for books do so without actually reading the books. And certainly this does happen in the Christian world and beyond.”

That was the point being made.

However, many folks were asking the same question, since you are infact young, theologically untested, not in full time ministry as a pastor, etc., and it is a valid one. I think Winston really nailed it when he said:
“the issue isn’t qualification makes one worthy, the issue is how we determine legitimacy
sound education and proven experience?
or prolific blogging?
the legitimacy of theology is on the downgrade if our authoritative writers are chosen on the basis of e-popularity”

So, the valid question asked is this: what qualifies you to write about biblical discernment?

Play the man, my brother. embrace the questions rather than recoiling and being self-defensive.

PS: did you miss this from Steve — “I do wish Tim well with his efforts and hope the Lord blesses his tome.” and
“Again, I wish him well with what ever success the Lord grace’s him with.”


27. Mark
January 4, 2008
1:25 PM

Don Moore #25,

Your position is logically and theologically indefensible. How is it that Lewis, a professor of classics, is kosher to publish Christian books, but Challies is not? Tim has a university education too.

Besides, where does the rank of ‘professor’ appear in Church hierarchy?

Many current (and godly) Christian authors are neither pastors nor professors. I think of John Ensor, the leader of a crisis pregnancy association. What about leaders of parachurch ministries who are neither professors nor pastors as such, but sometimes function in one or both roles? What about former pastors and former professors who no longer occupy those roles but still publish?

Holes, Don, holes.


28. Jake
January 4, 2008
1:29 PM


Why are reasonable questions and concerns instantly interpreted as malice toward Tim?

I’m on the side of the ‘questioners’, but don’t question Tim’s motives or character at all.

Lets not let immaturity over someone questioning “your boy” make us jump to rash ‘i’ve got your back’ conclusions.

if steve camp takes the guttersnipe route, so be it

God bless Tim C.


29. Jeri
January 4, 2008
1:38 PM

Cyd, (and others who seem to like doing this sort of thing),

I just want to say this about your disingenuous use of the quote “Play the man,” which most readers here recognize and know the story of. What a misuse of a quote, and an attempt to bludgeon someone with a wonderful bit of church history misapplied and undermined by this kind of out of place usage of it. It is just plain silly. As are all such heavy-handed usages of quotes, facts and misapplied historical precedences.


30. David Wallace
January 4, 2008
1:41 PM

@ Cyd, #27

Timothy was young - so what is the point here?

Theologically untested? Read the THREE YEARS of daily blogging. How can anyone say he is theologically untested? He may be wrong. He may be misguided but untested he is not - unless one is too lazy to invest the time to look over his prolific body of work.

“the issue isn’t qualification makes one worthy, the issue is how we determine legitimacy sound education and proven experience? or prolific blogging? the legitimacy of theology is on the downgrade if our authoritative writers are chosen on the basis of e-popularity”

How do you determine legitimacy? By the product. Many liberal apostates were soundly educated with proven experience. Why is prolific blogging a disbar to a fair hearing on the merits? To my knowledge, Tim has never been disciplined by any church court to which he is responsible. The legitimacy of evangelicalism in on the downgrade if authors can only be chosen who have NOT written a blog but existed in the ivory towers of academia.


31. HarryJ
January 4, 2008
1:45 PM

Wow - what an interesting thread.

1. I think Steve could have used a more gentle tone in his initial comment at JT’s; but I do appreciate what he was trying to say.

2. Tim stop whining. Really brother, I agree with Cyd, play the man. If you don’t like negative comments about you or your book you should probably not be an author. The comments addressed about Mr. Camp here are ten times worse than what he said about you, but you let them stand and feel justified in letting others have at it against him. But he hasn’t written a poor me article at his blog.

3. Your book on discernment I have thoroughly enjoyed reading so far. It is a pretty good effort for a first book. Thank you.

4. You know that many authors don’t even write their own books right? They have assistants that do the bulk of the writing and editing. Same with endorsements.

5. Keep on faithfully for the Lord. Praying for you brother.

Peace,
Harry


32. Adam (Ochuk)
January 4, 2008
1:47 PM

Tim,

Hey man! As one who started blogging at roughly the same time you did I am proud to see how your blogging “career” has evolved. Mine has been a victim of *ahem* … well some sort of selection :) Anyway, I’m happy for you that you got published (!) and got such high marks from people you respect. My blogging days may be over, but I’m glad to see you still exhibit the same class and character that you did when you started. Hang in here, and don’t let the grumpy naysayers get you down.

Adam


33. Justin Childers
January 4, 2008
1:55 PM

Tim,

Thanks. This is a good response that drips with humility.

If any Christian publishers are out there reading these comments:
Please, do not do away with the practice of having endorsements on books. If guys like Piper, Dever, Mahaney, and Mohler are willing to put their name on a book, I’m willing to read it.


34. Dave @ Banannery Public
January 4, 2008
2:01 PM

HarryJ: “Tim stop whining. Really brother, I agree with Cyd, play the man. If you don’t like negative comments about you or your book you should probably not be an author. The comments addressed about Mr. Camp here are ten times worse than what he said about you, but you let them stand and feel justified in letting others have at it against him. But he hasn’t written a poor me article at his blog.”

Considering that he defended only his endorsers, the practice of endorsement, and not himself, this accusation of “whining” hardly makes sense.


35. Ian Vaillancourt
January 4, 2008
2:07 PM

Hi Tim,
Reading your article today was the first I heard about any slander against you - i.e. I didn’t read the comments section in JT’s blog. I wanted to thank you for your even-handed article, and for one thing in particular. When I read of comments against you bad emotions started to grow up and want to defend you. I was angry that people would shoot from the hip when, from what I know of you, you are concerned about the glory of God, and you are eminently qualified to write this book. But you resisted the temptation to lash back. Instead, you wrote in a tone that was corrective, not self-vindicating, and even-tempered. Thank you for your godly example. This is just another reason why I plan to buy and read your book. I need to learn from you on this topic!
Last comment: I’m reading Spurgeon’s Autobiography right now, and the verbal assaults on you reminded me of what the young Spurgeon had to endure when he began to preach in London. On one level, you and Spurgeon are very different - different gifts, different times, different callings, different levels of popularity, etc. But the point is that every public figure will be slandered…often very wrongly.
I need to get back to study now. Just wanted to thank you for this.
In Christ, Ian.


36. Bibliomaniac
January 4, 2008
2:15 PM

HarryJ wrote: You know that many authors don’t even write their own books right? They have assistants that do the bulk of the writing and editing. Same with endorsements.

As a longtimer in Christian publishing, I couldn’t let this pass. The word many is not accurate in that statement. This is true of only a small number of authors, not many.


37. Jeri
January 4, 2008
2:22 PM

And furthermore Cyd and the like, :)

You said, “embrace the questions rather than recoiling and abeing self-defensive.”

Do you and your buds see the arrogance behind these sorts of presumptive statements? that you are claiming knowledge of a realm (the innermost being of a person), a knowledge that God has clearly said belongs to HIm alone? The fear of
the Lord will cause us to desire to speak what is right.

For your benefit: you really do need to take a step back and examine yourself; “But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.” (1 Cor. 11:31) We will indeed stand before that great Judge of all the earth to give account for our idle words.

For what it’s worth…I feel that I know Tim about as well as anybody can know anybody else through reading their daily thoughts for over three years, plenty of email back and forth communication, and some conversations in person to round out the portrait. I assure you that Tim C. is neither recoiling at this, or self-defensive. That would be funny if it weren’t so foolish.


38. Dill
January 4, 2008
2:25 PM

“HarryJ” says - “Mr. Camp … hasn’t written a poor me article at his blog.”

No. He lets phony usernames do the whining for him. “HarryJ” is a Steve Camp alias. Just look up the comments he leaves on other Reformed blogs. HarryJ shows up only when Camp has already discredited himself, and the only comments he ever makes are when Steve needs someone to take up a lost cause.

Steve - when you make crank phone calls, buddy, you need to change your voice. HarryJ is just too obvious.

Or else “play the man” yourself and apologize to Tim for your ungracious attitude.


39. Barrett Young
January 4, 2008
2:33 PM

Tim,
Congratulations on your first book. I had no idea how much you were undertaking in writing this book, but it appears that the decision to publish a book without the proper “credentials” will bring excommunication today. I am not interested in joining the fray. I only say thank you for writing on this subject. I have my copy and am looking forward to reading it. You have written to me, on an issue I may be lacking, so know that at least one person has been impacted. I pray that you will not take the attacks to heart, and that you and your family would not be harmed. Above all, do not let this hinder you from considering a second work! I look forward to those to come.

To quote Piper’s biography of John Bunyan, “The greatest Puritan theologian and contemporary of Bunyan, John Owen, when asked by King Charles why he, a great scholar, went to hear an uneducated tinker preach said, ‘I would willingly exchange my learning for the tinker’s power of touching men’s hearts.’”

Thank you Tim.


40. Steve S
January 4, 2008
2:35 PM

May your book be a blessing to a world and a Christian community that too often lacks discernment.


41. notjake
January 4, 2008
2:43 PM


Why have the comments by Jake been ignored?


42. dave
January 4, 2008
2:49 PM

ChrisB, you’ve missed the point(e)!!!!!!
Spurgeon—pastor! ….

So one has to be either a pastor or an academically trained theologian to write about theological or spiritual matters?

Are you serious?

I asked this over at JT’s blog…

What ever happened to the priesthood of all believers?


43. Josh Buice
January 4, 2008
2:49 PM

Tim,

Anyone who steps out and attempts something for the glory of God will eventually become the subject of criticism. Do not let this hinder your efforts to edify the Church of Jesus Christ.

I have included a link to crossway.com where your book is being sold on the sidebar of my blog. After returning from my trip to Atlanta, Ga for the holidays, I returned to find your book waiting on me. I read the introduction and first chapter last night - and once finished, I plan to do an extensive review on the book.

In the near future, if you agree, I would also like to do an interview with you regarding your blogging and writing. Let me know if you are interested.

God Bless,

Rev. Josh Buice
www.deliveredbygrace.com


44. Josh Buice
January 4, 2008
2:49 PM

Tim,

Anyone who steps out and attempts something for the glory of God will eventually become the subject of criticism. Do not let this hinder your efforts to edify the Church of Jesus Christ.

I have included a link to crossway.com where your book is being sold on the sidebar of my blog. After returning from my trip to Atlanta, Ga for the holidays, I returned to find your book waiting on me. I read the introduction and first chapter last night - and once finished, I plan to do an extensive review on the book.

In the near future, if you agree, I would also like to do an interview with you regarding your blogging and writing. Let me know if you are interested.

God Bless,

Rev. Josh Buice
www.deliveredbygrace.com


45. Matt
January 4, 2008
2:52 PM

Mark Driscoll said, “I am a boxers, not briefs, Reformed guy. I am pretty laid back about it and not uptight and tidy like many Reformed guys.

Right on.
To many “briefs” reformed guys…


46. don moore
January 4, 2008
2:58 PM

dave,

thats the point

dont use a heralded pastor to make the point that ‘credentials’ dont matter


come on!


47. candyinsierras
January 4, 2008
3:13 PM

Look on the good side Tim. Controversy usually results in more book sales! :)


48. Adam Pohlman
January 4, 2008
3:13 PM

Don,
Isn’t the point about Spurgeon that he was some unkonwn, untrained kid who had an opportunity to show his gift? Someone gave him a chance to preach and he became known as one of the world’s greatest preachers.

Tim wrote a book. Few people know who he is. Shouldn’t we look passed his apparent inexperience and see if he has a gift of writing and teaching?


49. Nick Kennicott
January 4, 2008
3:14 PM

I am about 1/2 way through “The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment” and am enjoying it thoroughly — I’ve taken many notes and have been challenged on many accounts.

There are many authors that I truly enjoy and agree with, so I buy and read everything they write. But, that doesn’t meant that I am unwilling to read what someone else has written. Nor does it mean that I read without a discerning eye (I hope). Unless it’s someone whose position/theology I know well, I really don’t pay too much attention to the author until I’ve read the content of their work. In other words, I try not to judge a book by its cover. Looking at who wrote it and attempting to discover their credentials without knowing anything about their perspective or reading the content is selling oneself short. I have picked up many “unknown” books and have benefited greatly from them. I praise God that he uses all different people to deliver His truth to His people — it’s nice to see someone like Tim earn the opportunity to be published. And, by the way, Crossway is not an easy company to get published by… they typically don’t print junk. All this banter about endorsements, ghost writers, credentials… can we not just read a book as a book and go on content? Perhaps most are not discerning enough to do so.


50. jigawatt
January 4, 2008
3:18 PM

don moore,

You seem to believe that the only people who should write books about theological topics are:

1. Seminary trained individuals
2. Pastors
3. Professors

If this list is incomplete or incorrect, please complete it. In addition, can you justify your case from Scripture?


51. Brian @ voiceofthesheep
January 4, 2008
3:25 PM

All of you - critics AND supporters - are doing nothing but swatting the air. If you really want to say something of meaning or lasting value, then address what Tim has written, for that is what matters.

This kind of thing is why we look so idiotic to the world sometimes.

Pheh!


52. J.J.
January 4, 2008
3:28 PM

I was very disappointed in the total lack of grace displayed by some of the comments over on JT’s blog (starting with the very self-righteous post by Steve Camp). They are speaking about someone that most of them don’t know personally and, from the sound of it, a book they haven’t read. Truly sad.


53. Jimmy Snowden
January 4, 2008
3:58 PM

Tim,
I have read enough comments to make a bit nauseous. I have no idea why another believer would want to discredit your book before reading it. I was repulsed by the immaturity of some of the negative comments about your book on JT’s blog.

I do not at all blame you for backing your endorser’s reputation. Thanks for doing so.

However (and not to your fault, Tim), I have been equally repulsed by many of the comments on your blog. I feel that many have genuinely and biblically offered encouragement to you. However, i do believe that this has become an ungodly mess of gossip and sin.
Once again, this is not your fault.

I have two pleas to those working to give Tim encouragement:
1. Stop defending him like he is a 10 year old. He has proved that he can hold his own. Don’t feel like you have to take his back like a big brother and throw rocks at his critics (I don’t think that was his purpose in posting this thread—it was to defend his endorser’s reputation). Tim was not looking for sympathy in this post.

2. Stop dismantling Camp’s reputation. I 100% disagree with his comments about Tim, but there is no need to talk about him as if he were Tim’s arch rival enemy or something. He is a brother in Christ who should have thought before commenting. Tim did not mean this post to be a contest or wrestling match. You are making him look bad so stop the negative, character-bashing comments.
If anything will ruin Tim’s reputation it will not be his credentials, or lack there of, it will be the immature comments of his supporters.

Build Tim and his endorsers up without tearing anyone else down.