On the last day of the first round of my summer vacation, I want to offer up some links that have been collecting in my Bookmarks folder.
NoiseTrade
NoiseTrade is a site co-founded by Derek Webb that offers good music for “a few friends or a few bucks.” Their music is free to download if you pass along information about it to three friends or if you pay what you think it is worth. There are several good albums available and lots more I haven’t yet sampled. Among the ones that may interest you are Derek Webb’s The Ringing Bell, Sandra McCracken’s Gravity Love, Matthew Perryman Jones’ Throwing Punches in the Dark and Sixpence None the Richer’s My Dear Machine EP. Most of the albums are Folk, Folk Rock, Indie and the like.
Keep Silence
David Thacker recently sent me a couple of tracks from Keep Silence an album he recorded (with Roger Hooper, I believe) that features hymns arranged for the violin and piano. I undoubtedly do not have the most discerning ear, but I thought the arrangements were beautifully done. The songs are very mellow and worshipful.
The album is available from iTunes or Amazon (where you can also listen to samples if you’re interested).
Young, Restless, Deformed
For some time now I’ve been pondering this whole “young, restless, Reformed” movement in the church which is seeing so many younger people gravitate towards Reformed Christianity. All the while I’ve been wondering, are we really Reformed? It seems to me that the Reformed churches I attended as a child bore little resemblance to much of what is Reformed today. Is it possible that we’ve co-opted a word and ripped it out of its historic context? Not too long ago I was speaking with a seminary professor and was describing to him my experience of young, restless, Reformed and he, a Scotsman by birth (and at heart) insisted that this is not Reformed, at least in its historic sense.
It was inevitable that others would notice this and have things to say about it. In a recent [and excellent and must-read] article entitled A Little Bit of Comfort for Machen’s Worrier Children, Carl Trueman touches on this issue in his own distinctive way.
Nevertheless, I confess to ambivalence, to both encouragement and concern, at what Hansen describes. On the encouragement side, it is clearly wonderful that the old theology of the Reformed Orthodox and the Puritans continues to speak today. This is not a surprise to those of us who believe it is, well, basically true (forgive the outdated modernist use of the word `true’ at this point but, hey, I am an outdated modernist after all. So what do you expect?). It is also exciting to realize that this new zeal for solid theology does not always have to be combined with an uptight social and political conservatism that longs for the enlightened days of Genghis Khan’s domestic and foreign policies (hey, he was kind to his grandchildren…..) and the kind of women’s fashions made popular by Little House on the Prairie. Even better - the good news for us men is that, no, there is no necessary connection between vital Christian faith, drinking only Lite Beer, and buying your clothes based on recommendations from the fashion pages of Professional Librarian Monthly, no matter what the excess of wide-lapelled plaid jackets, kipper ties, curly sideburns and horn-rimmed glasses on your local church’s session might indicate.
Yet, as I note above, I am ambivalent at points. There are causes for concern even amidst all the good news…
He points out a few concerns that we would do well to consider. For example, he notes, rightly I think, that at the center of this whole move are a few forceful personalities. He notes also the absence of the church in certain key points.
I noticed recently that Dr. Scott Clark has a book coming out soon titled Recovering the Reformed Confession. Kim Riddelbarger says, “this volume will provoke much discussion about what it means to be Reformed in our doctrine, as well as in our practice (preaching, sacraments, catechism, worship, and piety).” I think books like this one will go far to help us understand this movement that is afoot!
Comments (18) »
1. ChrisB
July 11, 2008
9:07 AM
All the while I’ve been wondering, are we really Reformed?
No. But “Reformed” gets a less negative reaction than “Calvinist” — at least from those who don’t know what Reformed means.
2. David Bissett
July 11, 2008
9:12 AM
Tim,
Good words on the Y-R-R movement, and balanced. Glad to hear your vacation plans going well… if you care to swign through Albany (NY state museum, etc, here), let me know.
3. Adam Waugh
July 11, 2008
9:43 AM
I have been struggling with this myself. My family attends what you would call a standard, American, “seeker” type of mega-church with a really bland and generic evangelical faith statement.
But my wife and I have been awakening to the Doctrines of Grace through the likes of Mark Driscoll and (especially for me) John Piper over the last few years. But I don’t really know if what we believe is “Reformed” necessarily. I don’t know if I believe everything even the Puritans believed.
I just know that God is totally sovereign, I am totally wicked and totally depend on the finished work of His son Jesus for salvation, justification, and future glorification. All things were made by Him, through Him, and for Him.
These truths are transforming our lives more than any of the preaching I have sat under for the previous 36 years of my life. To the point that we are now pursuing a call of full-time ministry.
What does that make me?
4. Jessica Watson
July 11, 2008
9:48 AM
I thought the article by Carl Trueman interesting. I found his comment on the small churches who are preaching the word to be encouraging. This is the Reformed Movement that gets virtually no attention(how many small ministries are there that we don’t even know about?) I am grateful to belong to one of those small churches, where the pastor faithfully teaches our congregation. He and others like him are content to labor in this obscure way, despite the financial sacrifices and other discouragements that go with a small church. To me, this is the Reformed Movement at its’ best.
5. Ryan Wentzel
July 11, 2008
10:24 AM
The movement seems to be more about the doctrines of grace rather than full-orbed Reformed theology. Although the doctrines of grace are critical there’s more to being Reformed than believing in election or definite atonement. Yet it’s encouraging to hear of more and more people coming to understand and believe in God’s sovereignty.
6. Chris Case
July 11, 2008
10:33 AM
I HIGHLY recommend getting Micah Dalton’s CD on noisetrade. It’s really really good.
7. Michael "iMonk" Spencer
July 11, 2008
11:08 AM
Scott Clark’s book will forcefully tell the “Reformed” Baptists that they aren’t reformed unless they completely embrace WCF Presbyterianism.
I genuinely look forward to your review of that one, Tim :-)
8. Darrell Trees
July 11, 2008
11:50 AM
I found Trueman’s article to express some of my feelings about the current Reformed movement. Like, Mr. Waugh, I have been drawn to the clarity of the teaching and away from the Emergent anything-goes crowd. Before stumbling across this site many months ago, and after having read many of Tim’s recommendations (and being blessed by them I might add), I didn’t really know what Calvinism or Reformed thought really meant. I currently attend an independent Christian church (formerly Disciples) in rural central Indiana. I attended a Southern Baptist church initially, at which I learned a lot in 2 years. While I can’t say I’ve totally embraced the theology, I have definitely changed my outlook and appreciate God much more and find myself gravitating to aspects of Reformed thought. Regardless, I have come to be concerned about the current reformed movement in that it does seem to be very personality-driven and almost self-congratulatory at times. I used to be a big music buff (still love music) and it reminds me of the way I used to be about music. I judged people by the type of music they listened to and was more likely to be friends with those that liked similar music. I think the danger of being so closely tied with personalities and “intellectual” thought is that it creates that club-like, good ole boys club so to speak, and the doctrines and beliefs of Calvin and these personalities takes on a status close to equal to the Bible itself. Unfortunately, most people don’t know Calvin or reformed theology and it’s current crop of leaders and they are not who we should be preaching about, but rather God. On the other hand, I believe that Reformed theology is much more likely to address the ideas of God much more than many other groups. I can say this, study of it has certainly opened my eyes and ears, so please do not take this as a broad criticism of this site or the leaders within it, or Calvin for that matter, but I think let us just remember that they are just men. I love this website and I love the things that I have learned. Thanks for listening.
9. Jeri
July 11, 2008
5:27 PM
Tim, I agree with the concerns mentioned by Carl Trueman. It’s good to have valid concerns pointed out and discussed.
As for us Baptists and other such, I don’t know that we’ve co-opted the term “reformed.” I understand the point in the historical context of Presbyterianism, and see the issue with the term as an identifying label. But the Holy Spirit is the bringer of reformation, including Josiah’s.
The same thing that happened to Josiah and Martin Luther and the Scottish Presbyterians has happened in our day…God has reformed our view of Him and His word. Maybe more accurate than “I am reformed” would be “I have been reformed.”
10. Brian Borgman
July 11, 2008
7:40 PM
I like Trueman, but his concerns and ambivalence are a bit overdone. Why is it that we must find something to criticize? Is it a part of being Reformed? Why can’t we rejoice in what God is doing, recognize that the core beliefs of the Reformation are being rediscovered with power and call it Reformed?
Are there forceful personalities in the YRR movement (or whatever you want to call it)? Yes, of course. But we don’t talk today about St Peter’s impact on the reformation, we talk about Calvin. We don’t talk about the Castle Church at Wittenberg, we talk about Luther. Forceful personalities indeed!
I also find it a little disheartening that there is such a narrowness in our hearts towards brethren in Christ. There appears to be a territorial pride, “they aren’t really reformed because they don’t baptize their babies, they don’t have this view of the supper, etc.” Do we really need Scott Clark to straighten us all out?
What makes us think that to be Reformed means that we all think exactly the same? There was quite a spectrum among the reformers themselves! And what makes us think that we need to closely resemble our 16th century forefathers? There are some things they believed and practiced that needed reforming too!
11. Jeff Medders
July 11, 2008
8:05 PM
I totally agree about people calling themselves ‘reformed.’ Really, I think, they mean “modern reformed” = Sovereignty of God and Calvinsim (and for sure all of the solas). And not…infant baptism, covenant theology, regulative principle, etc..
maybe I am wrong. I wouldn’t say I am reformed, but that I hold to the doctrines of Grace.
12. Matt Foreman
July 11, 2008
10:29 PM
I have viewed the Young, Restless and Reformed movement from an interesting vantage point. Generationally, I am part of the Young Reformed. But I was converted and spiritually grew up in confessional (1689) Reformed Baptist churches, which predate the Young Reformed movement by 30 or more years. There are many in the Reformed Baptist movement who would view the Young Reformed as not fully “Reformed” - to say nothing of how the Reformed Presbyterians view the movement.
Putting aside the “Reformed” terminology for a second - the real issue is spiritual maturity. If by questioning the “Reformed” qualifications of the Young Reformed, you are questioning whether they have truly grasped dynamics and insights of the Reformed tradition that are of benefit to spiritual maturity - well and good. The questioning then is motivated out of love and concern. But all too often the impression of such questioning is that it is motivated by pride and a condescending, critical party spirit. That’s the danger of beating people with party titles - “You’re not really keeping with the ‘Reformed’ tradition. You don’t really understand what it means to be ‘Reformed’.” Such rhetoric is stupid and unhelpful. The “Reformed” need to make very clear that’s not what we’re doing. We shouldn’t be concerned about the tradition. We should be concerned about maturity in Christ through a humble and gentle teaching of the whole counsel of God.
13. Laurie
July 11, 2008
10:54 PM
Brian Borgman & Matt Foreman,
I really like what both of you had to say! I became a believer after years of exposure to distinctly charismatic, non-Reformed churches. Shortly after my conversion, by the grace of God, I was directed to the writings of Martin Lloyd-Jones, John MacArthur, J.I. Packer, A.W. Pink, John Frame, and John Piper. Their teachings came like water to my parched heart. The doctrines of grace came like meat to a child who’s grown some teeth. Finally. That was four years ago. I’m gradually re-examining things I’ve been taught over the years before my conversion and since, holding them up to the light of Scripture. I certainly cannot overnight decide the accuracy of Covenant Theology as compared to Dispensationalism, or adult vs. infant baptism, or the memorial vs. reformed vs. con-subtantiation view of the Lord’s Supper, or cessationist vs. non-cessationist views, any more than I could immediately have a working grasp of the nature of the Trinity or the hypostatic union. Yet, by comparison to the ‘system’ I came from (which was not really a system at all), I am distinctly Reformed.
14. Mrs. J.D. Darr
July 12, 2008
12:14 AM
Great thoughts everyone! Laurie, I too am having my own drama with dispensationalism vs. covenant theology…(yes, and I’m getting tired of the drama) we must all study to show ourselves approved…to be faithful to the light given to us.
15. Tim
July 12, 2008
12:59 AM
Are we reformed? That term doesn’t have as distinct a definition as say justification. But, basic adherance to baptistic or presbyterian covenant of grace framework and the regulative pinciple may qualify us. With changing cultural norms, our response to God in worship may look different than 400 years ago. That concerns some regulative principle folks…
Mrs. JD Darr - you will go rounds on that one. What happens is that you end up knowing more about dispensational and covenant theology than the person who is engaging you in the discussion. But, iron does sharpen iron… Maybe, try the Gerstner book. (Primer on Dispensationalism or something like that.)
16. SteveE
July 12, 2008
3:57 AM
Regulative principal, Baptismic, Presbyterian, dispensationalism, charismatic, Covenant of grace, YRR movement….and more. Hmmmm, what would ‘reformed’ look like?
Would this be similar to those edge groups who like to pierce themselves and paint their fingernails black to stand out from society, yet look like ten million others who do the exact same thing? Or would it be like bikers who ‘ride to live free’? Only there are five million others just like them who, supposedly stand out side the norm.
So, what does reformed look like? Probably just like 300 million other folks who claim to serve God, live for Him, and work to help others find Christ.
Though I have yet to find a justification of the totality of reformed teachings, I find that they have as much justification as many Arminius teachings. The point being, neither has a monopoly of truth to support either as a whole truth, but merely opposite sides of a coin that has different faces, but not quite the same value. The difference in value being that the true value is a combination of the two. Reformed teachings lean a lot towards study and exacting interpertations of specific things that leave out the tenor or intention of a set of scripture, while Arminius teachings lean more towards the over all intention, but leave out the specifics. I’m being horribly general, in all of this, but for the most part folks tend to defend their genre, and not because they are more correct, but because they are simply defending their belief system, and not searching for God’s truth.
Basically, no really asks questions….they simply read things that support their belief, and that is not study. I’d love to dialog with anyone who would pick a specific point and study it with me….
Either way….God speed.
17. R. Scott Clark
July 12, 2008
8:11 PM
Hi All,
To those who anticipate Recovering to be an anti-Baptist screed, I’m sorry to disappoint you. If there’s a market for such a book, however, let me know and I’ll be sure to ask P&R to give me a contract! For the humor impaired, as Foghorn Leghorn would say” “I say, that’s a joke, son, that’s a joke!”
To Adam, you are where a good bit of the confessional Reformed community was, at the head of a trail, on a journey. A good number of us (myself included) started in similar places. I hope you’ll keep going. The book actually has an entire chapter just for you.
There are a lot of good reasons for folks to be and become Reformed. Soteriology (the doctrine of salvation) is an absolutely necessary beginning, but that’s all it is: a beginning. The Reformed faith touches everything, right through to the church and sacraments.
The great point of the book is not that I should impose my private definition of “Reformed” on anyone else but that we should all let those public, churchly documents adopted by the Reformed churches define Reformed. If we would be Reformed we must define ourselves by them and seek to conform to them as they summarize the Reformed understanding of God’s Word.
18. Vern Dewit
July 15, 2008
3:47 PM
I total agree with Jeff Medders on this one. I come from a Dutch Reformed background and I have serious concerns about certain Calvinist teachings such as the Covenant of Grace and how it can be used to reveal teachings that are provable from the Bible but aren’t Biblical. (There’s a big difference by the way, the Bible has been used for thousands of years to promote and ‘prove’ many non-Biblical ideas.)
I think modern ‘Reformers’ aren’t true Calvinists in every sense of the word, but rather only with respect to Calvin’s teachings on Grace and the Sovereignty of God.
Which is rather ironic because I left the Canadian Reformed Church precisely because of it’s non-Grace towards other Christians (even other Reformed Christians, believe it or not)! I also have big concerns with ‘confessionalism’ that was rampant in the Canadian Reformed Church (i.e. over-use of man-made confessions to explain the Bible instead of just reading what the Bible actually says, i.e. justifying paedobaptism…)
I sincerely and respectfully hope that this new so-called ‘YRR movement’ is more about rediscovering the TRUTH of the Gospel by reading the BIBLE, rather than following old creeds and confessions blindly.