Friday Ramblings
Alex Chediak - Alex Chediak has a pretty new web site (AlexChediak.com). I should know because I made it. Alex, who authored (edited?) 5 Paths To The Love Of Your Life (my review) is anticipating the imminent release of his second book, this one co-authored with his wife. It is titled With One Voice and should be available within a week or two. Why not root around Alex’s site and, if you feel so moved, order his new book? I haven’t read it yet, but it promises to be a good one. Rumor has it that I will receive a copy of it shortly.
Mormons - Wouldn’t you know it. This is the last day of one of the busiest weeks I can recall and the Mormons chose today to come a-calling. I never turn down an opportunity to tangle with Mormon’s (always two young, well-dressed, white men) or Jehovah’s Witnesses (usually older, recent immigrant minorities) when they come to the door. I don’t invite them in, but will always engage in some discussion through the doorway. This year, Elder MacNiel and Elder Hunter wanted to help me live a more fulfilled life. Genuinely nice kids, my heart aches to see them spreading such awful, godless beliefs in this neighborhood. I was glad to see that every address on their list had an “X” through it, suggesting that they had not been able to convince anyone to do invite them for a return visit. By the end of our visit, I noted that Elder MacNeil had drawn a circle around my address.
My strategy, which I had to think up on the spot since I was not expecting this visit, was to convince them that their works-based salvation is inconsistent with Scripture. I got them to agree that Scripture confirms that we are spiritually dead and that dead men cannot in any way reach out to God. I got them to agree that the passages in Scripture affirming our spiritual state and our need for a Savior are not some of those passages that were apparently corrupted, necessitating the “Book of Mormon.” What they could not see was the logical inconsistency of dead men beginning to do good works and pleasing a holy God. They admitted that they were baffled by how this could happen and promised, as they always do, to study it and pray about it. They said they would come back, but if I had a dime for every time a Mormon has failed on that promise, I could, well, buy a newspaper anyways. They left me with a nice little card asking “What is the purpose of life?” I already know the answer to that one.
To my shame I have to say that I know very little about the best strategies for evangelizing Mormons. It is entirely possible that my strategy was not a very good one, though I trust that, by God’s grace, He may see fit to stir their hearts to see His glory. If anyone wants to give me some tips in this regard, please feel free.
Spam - My site is experience a brutal, ongoing, concerted spam attack. I have had thousands and thousands of spams hit the site. The majority of these comments, most of them dealing with all manner of perversion, have been safely filtered. Quite a few have still gotten through. So if you happen to see strange comments, please bear with me. I am doing the best I can. I will attempt to integrate some new countermeasures this weekend. It is a constant battle to stay one step ahead of these horrible purveyors of perversion.
Weekend - And just like that, the weekend is just about upon us. My plans involve reading, hanging out with the family, changing my brake pads and sharing lunch tomorrow with some good friends. It sounds to me like we’ve got the makings of a pretty good weekend here!
Comments (32) »
1. Really
May 12, 2006
5:18 PM
Why do you say the mormon’s beliefs are awful and godless?
2. Jabbok
May 12, 2006
5:23 PM
I would never have guessed that Mr. Challies was one who would tackle the choir of changing break pads. I thought about doing it once until a friend of mine said, “Do you have that special tool to take off the springs? They’re almost impossible to get off if you don’t have the tool.” That ended it for me. Perhaps you know a secret. I’m a mechanical moron anyway and I admit it. If you find a solution to your spam problem, please post it. The weather in Arkansas is GREAT! and I think we’ll grill out tomorrow. I hope you have as good a lunch with your friends.
L8er…..
3. Aaron Shafovaloff
May 12, 2006
5:23 PM
Tim, don’t ever buy the idea that you need a better method for evangelizing which involves something other than using the Word of God.
As a missionary to Mormons here in Orem, UT, I like to ask, after telling the story in Luke 7, “Do you think you need to be obedient in order to become forgiven, or do you think you need to be freely forgiven in order to become obedient?” Then I ask if they agree with Romans 4:4-8. If they say “yes”, then I ask them why Joseph Smith reverse the verse in the JST, the Joseph Smith Translation. Isaiah 43:10 is probably my favorite verse to bring up, since it hits straight on the heart of Mormonism. Since Mormons are so family-centered in an idolatrous way, I share what Jesus says about “hating” your father and mother and renouncing all things to follow him. I also find it helpful to think of a small list of historical problems that may help: such as the modern translation by Egyptologists of the “Book of Abraham”, the Kinderhook Plates, the events surrounding the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor. Google is your friend :)
There are some helpful mp3s on this page:
http://theopedia.com/Mormonism
Grace and peace in Christ,
Aaron www.MormonInfo.org www.MRM.org
4. Aaron Shafovaloff
May 12, 2006
5:25 PM
Specifically, I was referring to the story of the two debtors in Luke 7.
5. Tim Challies
May 12, 2006
5:48 PM
“Perhaps you know a secret.”
I do. I have a good friend who has lots of tools and is willing to say that “we” did the work when in reality all I did was lossen and tighten a few bolts.
6. Dallas Pymm
May 12, 2006
6:11 PM
Aaron is right Tim. You were off to a great start.
Their whole religion is works based. As a former Mormon, and one who has so many family members who are Mormon, explaining that we are not saved by works is a good start. The problem with Mormonism is that their beliefs change so much it can be hard to claim what they teach. They can simply say “the church does not teach that anymore”. This though, is a great intro to asking if they have the truth why does it change?
“I don’t invite them in, but will always engage in some discussion through the doorway.”
Tim. You should invite them in. It gives a great opportunity to show Christian hospitality and to go through what God’s word really says. The best thing you can do is pray though. All salvation takes a miracle from God, and normally cultists’ hearts are even harder to the truth. Just my opinion.
They will come to your house 6 times before they give up. That is six times you can preach the gospel to them, and they will sit through it. Schedule a time with them, and have a Godly friend with you for support. It will be a great experience.
7. Sam
May 12, 2006
6:43 PM
I really enjoy these elders visiting. No matter where it is.
It’s entertaining to ask “Elders” what worldly experience they have to earn the title of Elder. These kids don’t have a clue… and right near the end of the discussion.. I will throw out… “Ever been to Hill Camora?”
Anywho… I have been black listed by the JWs and the Mormons don’t even come to my area anymore… ;-( Across the street, there is a pastor for a fairly outgoing evangelical church. But that’s a whole nutter story.
You will probably only get a few visits with the same guys… until then, keep to the Word. Which they will claim they believe too…
8. Jim Vellenga
May 12, 2006
8:32 PM
My only suggestion, and it isn’t really mine as it was suggested by Hywel Jones at the Banner of Truth Conference a couple of years back, is to concentrate on the one of the two who doesn’t speak as much. He is the one who is probably more likely to listen. Other than that, you approach is really good.
9. Wendy
May 12, 2006
10:40 PM
Tim I was a fifth generation Mormon for 25 years. My best counsel is to present the truth especially in regard to the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. The Mormon “Jesus” is a perversion. Present the Gospel simply and then pray for the elders. I grew up in Utah but now live in Texas and have had some chance to speak to missionaries here. I think Jim Vellenga’s counsel is good—focus on the more receptive one. It is so sad to me to know how deceived these people are…God bless
10. Kelly
May 13, 2006
12:36 AM
Great advice Wendy… and PRAISE God you are free from the grips of Mormonism!
If you click on my name… you will see that I have a message board to witness to Mormons… and anyone else that will let me lol
I have some GREAT resources there and also on another site of mine (http://groups.msn.com/FAITHWhatdootherFAITHSreligionsbelieve)
Tim… loved this entry… I think you do a GREAT job! I consider you to be a worker in the field… one whom I really enjoying seeing the fruit from!
God BLESS you and keep up the GREAT work!
Much LOVE IN Christ! Kelly
11. yerbua-smada
May 13, 2006
12:55 AM
We heard Dr. Les Lofquist speak at a Bible conference last week. He had spent much time with Mormons. His suggestion was to use Isaiah 45:5-7;
“I am the Lord God, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me; I will gird you though you have not known Me; that they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
12. Brian Thornton
May 13, 2006
7:12 AM
I think some of the suggestions here for witnessing to Mormons may be useful…BUT…I think we get lost ourselves when we try to evangelize someone like a Mormon through apologetics of the Scriptures. When a Mormon comes to your door, that is NOT the time to debate with them about their bible…that is the time to show how they stand condemned before a holy and righteous judge…before Whom they WILL have to give an account someday…and how the ONLY way to be able to stand before Him is by believing in the atoning work of Christ and putting faith in Him alone for their salvation…repentance and faith.
The BEST way to witness to a Mormon is the same way to witness to a JW or an atheist, or a new-ager, or anyone else who is dead in their sin and facing the wrath of a just God…
Law and Grace.
Pierce their conscience with the law…show them the incredible work of the Savior through grace.
Repentance and faith…repentance and faith…repentance and faith.
13. Tim Challies
May 13, 2006
7:47 AM
Brian,
I was kind of waiting for you to say that. I know you don’t have much use for apologetics. I don’t much care to argue about Mormons about their Bible or about the Book of Mormon. However, I think each false religion has its peculiarities and inconsistencies. We can take advantage of these by finding where the Truth can work its way into the gaps. That is to say that if the Mormons have a particular area where the Scripture can clearly and easily prove them wrong, that is a good angle to attack. I agree that we need to focus primarily on giving the gospel, but I also think there are some ways of doing so that are more effective for each religion.
14. Danny Haszard
May 13, 2006
8:51 AM
Good post,to keep it simple the central core dogma of Jehovah’s Witnesses,the reason they came into existence 110 years ago was to proclaim Jesus second coming in the year 1914.
When their ‘prophecy’ {derived from the William Miller movement of 1844} failed,they went on to say that Jesus came “invisibly”.Yes,it’s the ‘emperor’s new clothes’ all over again.
The Watchtower is a lie!-Danny Haszard
15. Joel
May 13, 2006
10:47 AM
I find it useful, rather than getting into a scripture duel, to ask about the great apostasy, and at what point the Gospel needed “restoring.” I also enjoy watching their faces when I point out that the Trinity was settled before the NT Canon was, yet they accept the canon without question while rejecting Nicea.
I find if I try to match them verse for verse, we end up lapsing into warring interpretations, which becomes an “is so-is not!” debate. That’s just about the only thing their training equips them to do, is to debate from scripture. That, and to counter assertions about their prophet’s character (the fortunetelling and such). But I have yet to find one that has an answer to “when did the gates of hell prevail?”
The Mormon church stands or falls less on a false scripture than on a false ecclesiology. Take away the Book of Mormon and you could still have Mormonism, based on a particularly bizarre understanding of the Bible. Take away the “Great Apostasy” and the whole thing sinks like a lead weight.
16. Joel
May 13, 2006
11:17 AM
I have to agree partially with Brian, that apologetics aren’t as useful with Mormons as they might be. A lot of the draw for them is the moral values their church holds to, which admittedly are the same ones we should be and too often don’t. They gain a lot of converts through our not being the Christians we ought to be.
I have some good friends who are Mormon. If I try to argue with them, all that will do is make it impossible ever to discuss their religion again. Instead I try to let them see the Holy Spirit at work in my life and my family’s, and keep praying that they’ll want to know more, as they’ve been taught that that’s unusual, if not impossible, for a gentile. The Lord will take it from there.
17. Kelly
May 13, 2006
11:24 AM
Law to the proud… and grace to the humble! I agree Brian!
Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is PERFECT, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. AMEN!
Nothing says it best like Scripture eh!
Much LOVE in Christ, Kelly
18. Brian Thornton
May 13, 2006
4:55 PM
I was kind of waiting for you to say that. I know you don’t have much use for apologetics.
Hi Tim, It’s not that I don’t have much use for apologetics…it’s more that I don’t see apologetics as the best means to evangelize, as others do. There are so many who try to refute this, that and the other through apologetics with the end goal being to evangelize. And my thinking is that the best method to evangelize - no matter who the person is or what their background or religion - is to use the same thing, the only thing really, that God has chosen to use to save those who believe…the foolish message of the gospel.
I actually think that apologetics is VERY important…to the believer. I see apologetics - not for evangelization - but for strengthening disciples. I taught a class for a couple of years titled “Where Did My Bible Come From?” where I traced the origins of the the Scriptures to our present day English versions. That class really could have been called ‘Bible Apologetics 101’. It was never something I would have ever used to try to convince a non believer to come to Christ…but it was an incredible tool in showing other believers how God has preserved His inerrant Word.
The mistake I made for years with Mormons & JW’s was trying to argue that Jesus is God…when what I should have been doing was showing them how they stood condemned before a holy and righteous judge, and that the ONLY way to be forgiven is through the atoning work of Jesus Christby repenting and believing in Him alone for their salvation.
Present the foolish message of the gospel, and then let the Holy Sirit do with it whatever He wills to do…
19. Emmett Manley
May 13, 2006
5:25 PM
I have met several times with Mormons (usually one slightly older leader, i.e. 25 years old, and five or so 19 year old “elders”) and have had good success with focusing on there being but one God and one Savior, the Biblical concept which is not taught by the Mormon church. I lay out copies of Mormon teaching re: personal godhood (key: Mormons will always agree with you re: “salvation”, since they interpret that as a general salvation for all accomplished by Christ at the cross, and meaning that all except apostate Mormons are, in their view, safe from hell - you must focus on “exaltation”, which is their concept of a works and ritual based progression to a literal personal “godhood”, which many of the young missionaries have never heard much about…) and then go through 5-10 simple Bible passages (i.e. Exodus 20:3, Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 44:6, 8, Isaiah 45:5-6, Isaiah 45:21-22…). It is pretty plain - one God vs. millions of “gods” - both can’t be true. All I am trying to do is to get the young men to agree that Mormonism is not a Biblical religion - no argument, just facts - and to see clearly that things that are different are not the same! It plants a seed, even though it is inevitably followed by the older one vigorously denying the truthfulness of the Bible as a stand alone book. P.S. - I used to download the doctrinal teaching of the LDS church directly from their website - it was very effective, in that I could say, “I’m not trying to put words into your mouth - these were the posted teaching of your church as of 8:05 this AM…” - but now the explicit doctrines have been removed from the website, and you have to use reprints or quotes from their standard works. If this is done pleasantly, in love and with a great concern for these young men, I think it has and will plant seeds of doubt re: the false religion into which they have (generally) been born, and hopefully get them to thinking!
20. Rick Saenz
May 13, 2006
6:03 PM
I spent a summer working with two Mormon missionaries, and eventually most of the bigger guns in the local Mormon church. I read everything I could get my hands on about how to witness to Mormons.
The only approach that seemed loving to me was the one developed by Pastor Mark Cares in Nampa, Idaho. He describes it in his book Speaking the Truth in Love to Mormons. It treats them as fellow human beings, and in my experience was very effective.
21. Eliot
May 13, 2006
7:15 PM
About the spam, try out Akismet. I hear it works wonders for many types of blog systems.
22. Wendy West
May 13, 2006
10:31 PM
Another thing I have found very helpful, yet sad, when witnessing to Mormons is to ask them on what basis will they enter heaven. I can’t think of a time when a Mormon answered with any certainty. They can’t be secure in their “salvation” or their eternal destiny because they never know if they have “done enough” to enter the “Celestial Kingdom.”
When I last witnessed to two Mormons one refused to answer. The other said “I hope I make it the Celestial Kingdom.” It was tragic to think that this young man was investing two years of his life in his prime as a Mormon missionary and he still wasn’t sure where he would spend the hereafter.
23. Brian Thornton
May 13, 2006
11:16 PM
I must respectfully disagree with those who see the use of certain methods or subjects with Mormons as “planting seeds” of doubt with them concerning their religion.
I fear that trying to plant seeds through reason with an unsaved person (Mormon, JW, atheist, family member, whoever) will only result in frustration on your part. Reasoning with an ubeliever is reasoning with the world. THE most loving thing you can do for that Mormon who comes to your door is not to kindly or respectfully show them how their religion is a false one…but to kindly and gently show them how they are lost without repenting and trusting in Christ alone for their salvation.
I think that most of these other methods for “witnessing” to a Mormon - or anyone in a false religion (which includes anyone who is not a believer) - is mistakenly meeting that unbeliever on their turf on their terms.
Spend your time wisely sowing seeds of law and grace. Lead every Mormon - every person - you talk to, to Christ…what the Holy Spirit does from there is up to Him.
24. Wendy West
May 14, 2006
8:17 AM
Brian I don’t know if your post (Comment 23) included me but “planting seeds of doubt with them concerning their religion” has to be addressed with any deception. If you don’t establish that someone’s belief system is errant—why would they change? The only point in establishing the area of deception is to then replace it with truth. I have never left a conversation with an LDS person without sharing biblical law and grace.
I don’t know what experience you have had with LDS people but mine is extensive. You have to establish with them that the “Jesus” they preach and the “Jesus” you preach is not the same. Their “Jesus” is the half brother of Satan. Their “Jesus” is one of many gods. Their “Jesus” death on the cross provided only for a general resurrection of body and spirit. Their works determine their eternal destiny. If you speak of the orthodox Jesus without clarifying what they believe about Him, they will assume that your “Jesus” is the same as theirs.
I wanted to say Brian how grateful I am for your posts. You are clear and passionate in your statements and it is so obvious that you deeply love the Lord. I always come away edified by your comments.
25. David Haslam
May 14, 2006
12:29 PM
Tim,
In responding/witnessing to JW and/or LDS callers, have you ever tried the approach Paul used with disciples of John the Baptist? “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
Yes - I know the context is different - but these folks have been led to think that they “believe”, and this question is not one they are usually “programmed” to deal with.
Neither cult has sound views of the Holy Spirit, but their belief system does not produce in them anything corresponding to conviction of sin and righteousness and judgement, which are the first works of the Holy Spirit in bringing a soul to genuine belief on the Son of God.
Your own Christian testimony backed up by Scripture can oft times have a more unsettling effect than merely a verse by verse rebuttal of their false doctrines.
Hope this helps a little for next time.
Best regards,
David
26. Emmett Manley
May 14, 2006
3:10 PM
Appreciated Brian and Wendy’s comments - in fact, you must show those in false religions the cracks in the floor of their current system (pulling down their false idols and altars) before they will be ready to receive the truth of the Biblical Christ and salvation by grace through faith. Certainly, this is not an “if/or” situation, but an “if then” - IF your current system is flawed and will not accomplish peace with God or an hope of heaven, THEN won’t you now respond to the Christ of the Bible, and the pardon and new life He offers…. I assure you, both in Mormon and in Jehovah’s Witness work, you must do the pre-evangelism of pulling down their current altars, or they’ll never consider what you are saying, however true and vital. As Wendy mentioned, until you do so, they’ll hear your words - but interpret those words in the context of their “organization’s” dictionary - and, sadly, you’ll not really be effectively communicating the grand, life saving truths that Brian wants communicated…
27. Brian Thornton
May 14, 2006
8:40 PM
I assure you, both in Mormon and in Jehovah’s Witness work, you must do the pre-evangelism of pulling down their current altars, or they’ll never consider what you are saying, however true and vital.
Emmett, I understand what you are saying…but I don’t think there is any biblical support for it. I honestly have never heard of “pre-evangelism” before. Can you provide some Scriptural evidence of this being done?
If salvation was a work of man’s mind and man’s reason, then…yes…I might agree with you that one must first pull down current altars before seeing any consideration of the gospel from a Mormon or JW, for example.
BUT…salvation is solely a monergistic work of the Holy Spirit, Who takes out the heart of stone and puts in a heart of flesh. Man does not come to saving faith through reason…for Paul himself said that the gospel is a “foolish message”.
I think we would do well to remember what we are commissioned to do…and be faithful being about that work…presenting the gospel. We tend to forget, I think, that No ONE will understand unless God opens their heart to be able to understand, as with Lydia in Acts.
Law to the proud…grace to the humble.
28. Emmett Manley
May 14, 2006
9:49 PM
Thanks, Brian - yes, Acts 17:15-33 would be a good example of Paul’s method of “pre-evangelism”. Having arrived in a city of people destitute of the truth, and cleaving to a false religion, his spirit was stirred within him, seeing the city wholly given to such idolatry. I’m sure you and I both are stirred when we see folks trapped in false religions, from their childhood up, in many cases, and seek wisdom as how best to reach them. How wise Paul was, and what a good example he here gives to us! After speaking with the Jews (Acts 17:17), he turns to deal with various and sundry pagans, and changes his method (Acts 17:18-21)… He begins with a review of both the content and the insufficiency of their current religion, and comments that surely this is worship without wisdom, too superstitious and unsatisfactory (v.22-23). From that starting point of their current state, and its bankruptcy (trusting that God was already speaking to them of this barrenness…), he begins where their religion fails, and “declares” unto them - the Truth! :) He proceeds to tell them the truth of Biblical creation (v.24a), the nature of the true God (v.24b), and the common nature of all of the people God has created, in effect saying, we are all much alike, and God is close to us, and has not been inactive or silent… (v.26-27). He even quotes their own pagan poets to try to show them that vague echoes of this truth have been in their minds (v.28), and hopefully whets their appetites for more light, for truth. He shows them the error of idols made with hands (their former religion) (v.29), and then comes to your excellent point - the legal consequences of living lives saturated with false religion (v.30-31) - they must all repent, must all turn, for judgment is coming. The results are typical - some mocking, some interested, but this is Paul’s approach in dealing with a people soaked in false religion. The rest of the book of Acts is equally fascinating, as we see Paul (before he gets to the vital point of “law to the proud, grace to the humble”…) approaching different groups from different starting points. In dealing with the Jews, he can go straight to the Biblical record (see Acts 13:14-43), and can point out that their knowing the law (Acts 13:15) cannot save, but grace is needed (Acts 13:38-39). But when he preaches to Gentiles, he starts where they are, and leads them to his point - see the variety of methods he uses in speaking with those at Corinth (Acts 18:4 - notice he “reasoned” and “sought to persuade”, both Jews and Greeks…), vs. his approach before Felix, Festus and Agrippa. He goes straight to the law, to the prophets, and/or to Biblical doctrine, when speaking before the Sanhedrin or the Pharisees, but not so with gentiles/pagans. I am persuaded that Paul is full of and controlled by the Holy Spirit in these encounters, and is doing wise ground clearing and heart plowing, whether the word “pre-evangelism” is used or not. :) Again, this is not “either/or” - this is clearing off a firm place to stand, before we deliver “law to the proud, grace to the humble”, and it is as wise and necessary today as it was in the Scriptural examples given above. I have had good success in witnessing both to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons in this fashion, as well as to more common, purely secular false beliefs which keep people from clearly hearing the message.
29. Brian Thornton
May 14, 2006
10:50 PM
Emmett, Nice breakdown of Acts 17:15-33…except that, you missed something early on in this passage. In verse 18 Luke makes it clear that Paul was already preaching Jesus and Him crucified…right from the start (in fact, this is why the people were so curious about Paul, because of the newness of what he was telling them). I don’t see where Paul took pains to dismember their current religions before proclaiming the truth.
I respectfully do not see how what Paul does in the midst of the Areopagus as what you call “pre-evangelism”…He simply proclaims to them the truth of the sovereign Creator and their need for repentance and faith in Christ due to the coming judgment.
How is that different from what Peter does in his first and second sermons?
Now, obvisouly, the exact same words are not used. And each proclamation of the gospel in Acts starts with some sort of introduction…but they all go quite abruptly (except for Stephen’s lengthy historical account) into the gospel message of the need for repentance and faith in Christ.
I just don’t see different “methods” being employed in the various gospel presentations. Again, the exact same words are not used in each encounter…but the method is the same…repentance and faith.
30. Brian Thornton
May 14, 2006
10:57 PM
I wanted to say Brian how grateful I am for your posts. You are clear and passionate in your statements and it is so obvious that you deeply love the Lord. I always come away edified by your comments.
Wendy, Thank you so much for your comments and encouragement. May the Lord richly bless you and your encounters with those who hold to false religions and false gods. May the One true God use you to reveal Himself to those He has placed in your path.
31. DLE
May 15, 2006
11:51 AM
Tim,
I would highly recommend the book Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Mormonism by Ankerberg & Weldon. Sadly, it’s out of print, but thanks to the Web can be easily located. Excellent book.
As for JWs, they are tougher to persuade than Mormons. Because of the nature of their teaching and correction methods, they are quite nearly brainwashed in a way that makes reasoning less effective than with the Mormons. And while the Mormons will acknowledge the KJV, the JWs only stick with their amazingly corrupt New World Translation.
But you can always out-love either group, even after the Scripture volleys are over. There’s so little grace in such legalistic religions that showing love and offering grace sometimes make all the difference. I remember battling a JW leader for a long time, but the thing that got through all the programming was the fact that I told him that I cared about him as a person. He told me he couldn’t remember the last time anyone had said that to him. Last thing I knew, he was seriously questioning all his JW training.
32. Joel
May 16, 2006
12:06 PM
And while the Mormons will acknowledge the KJV, the JWs only stick with their amazingly corrupt New World Translation.
I counter this by looking everything they cite up in the KJV for comparison. They can’t really say much about that without getting into translation history, about which they don’t usually know a great deal. JWs are discouraged from pursuing any sort of education beyond the three R’s, and forbidden to read anything contrary to their doctrines, so they have very little to fall back on when they’re questioned.
I assure you, both in Mormon and in Jehovah’s Witness work, you must do the pre-evangelism of pulling down their current altars, or they’ll never consider what you are saying, however true and vital.
Yes and no. I think you have to take a pianissimo approach to the pre-evangelism, because if you pull down the altars, they’ll just rebuild them and never listen to you again. You have to encourage them to tear them down themselves, and leave them that way.