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Tuesday February 27, 2007
24 Comments

C’est La Meme Chose

I typically only tune in to Larry King when Al Mohler or John MacArthur are featured guests. Since Mohler was a guest yesterday (transcript here) I thought I would watch and was glad that I did. He always does a great job of representing Christians before the show's audience. He does so far better than the vast majority of Christians (and "so-called Christians") that appear. Last night's topic of discussion was, of course, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," a documentary that will appear on the Discovery Channel this weekend. It has become a hot topic of discussion for two reasons. First, the Executive Producer is James Cameron of Titanic fame. He lends credence to the project in many people's eyes simply by being involved in it. Second, the documentary claims that archaeologists have found uncovered a tomb containing ossuaries labeled with the names of Jesus son of Joseph, two Marys, a Joseph, a Matthew and a Judah. And so they concluded that this represents the family of Jesus Christ. Jesus married Mary Magdalene and together they had a son named Judah. The entire family was laid to rest in this tomb which was subsequently discovered in 1980.

Have we heard this before? It seems to me we have. Last year we saw the publication of The Gospel of Judas. Before that it was The God Who Wasn't There, Misquoting Jesus, The Jesus Papers, The Da Vinci Code, The Jesus Seminar and on and on and on. The French have a great little phrase that goes "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose" (though they put neat little accents on some of those characters). The phrase translates to "The more things change, the more they stay the same." Here we find yet another attack on the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is only barely different from the ones that have come along in the past.

Sure the producers of this documentary claim to have uncovered some DNA evidence, but all this evidence shows is that the man in the coffin labeled "Jesus" is not a blood relative of the person in the coffin of the supposed Mary Magdalene. This is hardly startling. I suspect they did DNA testing on the other boxes and likely came up with either no evidence or evidence that contradicted the conclusion they wanted to make in the film. Their story would have been far more compelling had they been able to link "Jesus" to his mother "Mary" and then "Judah" to his mother, father and/or grandparents. We have to assume that they attempted to do this but failed. Beyond this fragmentary evidence, this documentary offers nothing new and nothing that hasn't been discussed and refuted countless times in the past.

Here are a few winning quotes by Dr. Mohler:

Well, it is only startling in terms of the sensationalism, I think, of public relations here. You are talking about a tomb that was discovered, as you said, well over two decades ago. The archaeologists there in Israel, who are the closest to this, have the greatest expertise, are not only looking at this with skepticism, but basically dismissing its claims.

You are talking about frankly trying to dress up an old documentary, the BBC did something like this over a decade ago, with this kind of supposed statistical research and DNA testing. The DNA testing is to me the most laughable aspect of all of this. I mean, frankly, there could be a thousand, thousand different explanations for whatever DNA pattern they could find.

No one has the DNA of Mary. You know, trying to bring this into a modern crime investigation is like trying to go back and figure out who exactly put the first dagger into Julius Caesar. It's impossible.

...

I'm going to base my beliefs on the scriptures which hold together far better than the kind of farcical documentary we are talking about here, throwing in a little bit of statistics. I mean, you're talking about the most common names, especially the most common male names, also frankly, female with the name Mary, you're talking about anything that could be found just about anywhere.

And this next one, a personal favorite, came after Dr. James Tabor, Chairman of the Department of Religious Studies and the University of North Carolina expressed great interest in this story saying "But from what I know of the historical records, both in the New Testament and other early Christian records, do these names fit what we know of the family of Jesus?" Mohler replied:

And frankly, I'm a bit surprised by Dr. Tabor's, at least, qualified endorsement of this, given the fact that this appears to me to be at least very inconsistent what he's arguing in his own book about Jesus not being the son of Joseph, which, by the way, we Christians don't hold either. But he's never known as the son of Joseph in terms of early Christian witness, he is never mentioned that way.

Mohler pointed out this man's hypocrisy and elicited from me a joyous "Booyah!" And to me, this hypocrisy was the real story. Dr. Tabor is an intelligent man and must know that this is just utter nonsense. To waive about DNA (and to even refer to the show "CSI" while doing so) is just farcical. The people who produced this show must know that they have no case. As Mohler pointed out, this would never stand up in any court. But it does make an interesting story and did elicit worldwide headlines. To quote Mohler, "Well, we are talking about moving all of the pieces here to make for sensational television. And frankly, that's why I think most Christians are going to take this without any seriousness at all." I couldn't agree more. Christians are growing tired of this. We have defended the resurrection of Jesus countless times. We have affirmed that if Jesus did not rise, our faith is in vain and Christianity is simply a fabrication and a waste of time. But the evidence for Jesus' resurrection is simply too strong and too compelling to discount or ignore. Of all the evidence that has been offered to contradict it, none has come even close to being rational and convicting. There is no question that Jesus rose from the dead. The only question remaining is what you intend to do with this news.

For other responses to this story, read Ben Witherington (who does a thorough analysis and concludes "So my response to this is clear--- James Cameron, the producer of the movie Titantic, has now jumped on board another sinking ship full of holes, presumably in order to make a lot of money before the theory sinks into an early watery grave. Man the lifeboats and get out now.) or James White (who looks at the history of these challenges to Scripture and says "Like dominos falling, all these arguments, spanning hundreds of years have failed. They differ in hypothesis, and many with each other, proving they can't make sense of the evidence they are evaluating."). You could also pick up a book defending against The Da Vinci Code. You ought to be able to choose from a wide variety in the bargain bin of your local Christian bookstore. That challenge came and went and so will this one. Meanwhile, Jesus lives on and we eagerly await His return.

Comments (24) »


1. Brian @ voiceofthesheep
February 27, 2007
10:01 AM

I thought it was humorous how Jacobovici kept saying, “We are not theologians…we are not archaeologists…we are not statisticians…we are simply reporting the news.”

Yeah, right.

Another funny comment came from Cameron when he said, “This is a $2 million documentary. If we had had a little more money, we could have done a lot more research.”

All the money and research in the world is not going to convince him, or anyone else, apart from the Holy Spirit.


2. Greg Bailey
February 27, 2007
10:16 AM

Good analysis, Tim. Your final sentence says it all.


3. donsands
February 27, 2007
10:52 AM

That was a faith edifying post. Thanks. And praise our sovereign Lord for sending His servant and shepherd, Al Mohler to confront these lies and error.

“Therefore, brothers, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Now our Lord Jesus Chist Himself, and God, even our Father, who has loved us, and given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
Comfort your hearts, and strengthen you in every good word and work.” 2 Thes. 2:15-17


4. Josh Rives
February 27, 2007
11:04 AM

The worst part about these shows is that Mohler is kind enough to let everyone else speak. He always gets interrupted by someone who just chooses to speak louder (and usually less logically).


5. wes
February 27, 2007
11:21 AM

Mohler’s courteous is quite appealing and rare for a show on prime time.

When the goal of getting more TV viewers is measured by how offensive and childish an interviewer can be, Al Mohler gets an F. And what a beautiful God glorify F it is.


6. candyinsierras
February 27, 2007
11:49 AM

Whew. I am so glad Larry King asked Mohler to come on his show instead of Olsteen, Warren, or any number of other Christian “Leaders” who would have hemmed and hawwed and stumbled over their words trying to appease others.


7. Jeremy
February 27, 2007
11:49 AM

Paul Harvey noted today that the documentary is the work of some ambitious filmmakers, not authoritative scholars.


8. Wonkyhead
February 27, 2007
12:03 PM

Thank goodness Al Mohler (as opposed to a member of the lunatic fringe) was invited to participate in the “Lost Tomb” panel discussion; he articulated the Christian perspective with clarity and dignity. I really appreciated his firm, yet respectful tone.

A plethora of theories purporting to explain the events surrounding the death of Jesus have been advanced over the millenia, and yet not one EVER attempts to address the issue of motive. Why would the disciples of Jesus disseminate teachings that stress reconciliation with God, virtuous living, respect for authority (as far as possible), a generous lifestyle, etc. while simultaneously perpetuating the LIE that Jesus had risen from the dead if they knew that, in reality, He had not? And they held fast to this lie in the face of imprisionment, torture, and ultimately, martyrdom? They gave their lives for an idea, a Person, really, they KNEW to be false? They KNEW He was still in the ground and yet each (with the exception of John) died an ignoble death in defense of the idea that He had risen? Not likely! Exactly what did they stand to gain from such nonsense? I wouldn’t give my life for something I know to be fraudulent - would you?

And Dr. Tabor had the audacity to say that the Apostle Paul (beaten, shipwrecked, tortured, imprisoned and finally, beheaded) endured all he did for the idea that “Jesus lives on in some way?”

They certainly don’t know human beings!

Tim is dead on - this will go the way of other pseudoscholarly “discoveries.” The tragedy is that for some, this will settle the matter.

Maranatha!


9. Steven
February 27, 2007
12:06 PM

I watched the show to see what Mohler would say, and as always, I wasn’t let down. I love the fact that Mohler is unashamed in his reliance upon Scripture as the source of truth. But I thought one of the best quotes of the night came from William Donahue from the Catholic League:

“Somebody takes — starts off with a predicate this could be true. And then they tie it to something else, which could be true. By the time you’re finished with this game, you have nothing but a mountain of speculation.”

The initial premise for this entire “report” is supposed to be some undeniable probability that this tomb was in fact the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth based on the cluster of names. But when the same type of reasoning is applied to the astronomical probability that human life could evolve from single-celled organisms, it is dismissed altogether by these same liberal “reporters”.

In the end, everyone on that panel is operating from a faith-based worldview, including Jacbobivici and Cameron…the difference is, what or who is the source of each person’s faith?


10. Sally
February 27, 2007
12:49 PM

What worries me is not that Christians will believe there is any truth to the Cameron’s show. It is that non-Christians will believe it proves that Jesus was not the Son of God and did not rise from the dead.


11. Kevin
February 27, 2007
1:00 PM

Hey Tim, I found the segment that followed Larry King to be quite fruitful also. The participants seemed to have access to more of the lab work conducted in the documentary, and their objective reporting styles allowed them to speak more candidly than Jacobovici.

Get this:
Regarding the DNA evidence, from what I gathered, they simply took two unique mitochondrial DNA samples from the tomb (any two), and determined that they were not related.

Then they simply inferred that given the POSSIBILITY that these samples belonged to “Jesus” and “Mary”, that they had no shared maternal lineage. Ie, they were not mother/son and not brother/sister. Which doesn’t prove their marriage. But they didin’t really know which person the samples belonged to.

And they didn’t seem to bother to try to gather more than 2 samples to try to find out if “James” was indeed the biological son of “Joesph” and “Mary”, etc…

I’ll see if i can post a link to the segment later for people to enjoy


12. John K
February 27, 2007
1:14 PM

I’m waiting to see the complete DNA evidence. I can’t believe they didn’t test all the ossuaries. If they didn’t it’s such an obvious oversight. The questions Tim and others raised are still unanswered. For example, what is the relationship between all the others? Was “Jose” related to “Jeshua?” Was the other “Mary”? Was “Matthew?” Was “Judah?” They may be saving something as “bombshell” evidence to be revealed in the actual documentary. We’ll wait and see.

Of course, we all realize that even their best “evidence” is no more than speculation and that’s all it can ever be. The truth, by very nature and definition, can never be proven wrong.
Take Care


13. SteveE
February 27, 2007
3:23 PM

A friend of mine once said. “Walk into any town in Mexico and yell ‘Maria!’, and see how many women turn around.

I find these programs kind of pathetic in a way. Although I do try and watch some of them, on occasion, just to see if they actually have something to offer…I find I can rarely finish any of them.

This, I suppose, will be another one.


14. The Highland Host
February 27, 2007
4:21 PM

All terribly silly. Dr. Mohler is quite right, all the DNA testing can tell in that ‘Mariamne’ was not related to ‘Jesus’ by blood. What it CANNOT tell is what the relationship between the two WAS, especially seeing as we have about ten different individuals represented there.

Tabor’s ‘Jesus Dynasty’ theories, unsupported as they are by serious fact, have no place in the court. The Gospels, as first-century documents, must be the first and primary source of our information about Jesus of Nazareth and His family.


15. Joel
February 27, 2007
5:00 PM

Matthew 24:23-28

“Then if anyone says to you, `Behold, here is the Christ,’or `There He is,’ do not believe him. “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. “Behold, I have told you in advance. “So if they say to you, `Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, `Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. “Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.


16. James Gordon
February 27, 2007
5:07 PM

Tim,
I too replied with an audible “booyah” when Dr. Mohler pointed out Tabor’s hypocrisy. Tabor said that discussion was for another time and place, but I would certainly love to see that time or place. Thanks for the summary.

In Christ,
James


17. Josh
February 27, 2007
5:15 PM

farcical

I love that word. It’s so appropriate.

“Science Fiction!”

Hehehehe….

Josh
“…the word of God is not bound.”
—2 Timothy 2:9


18. pilgrim
February 27, 2007
9:30 PM

This sort of stuff is about $$$ and appeasing one’s conscience to not believe.

We seriously need to pray for the people who will hear this and be confused, and for the people who perpetrate it.

Remember Saul of Tarsus was converted by God.


19. David Pearson
February 27, 2007
9:49 PM

It wasn’t just Tabor’s hypocrisy that was entertaining. It was the look of astonished horror on his face when he realized Dr. Mohler was very familiar with his book and work…I thought he seemed to be suddenly very disoriented. Or shocked.

This reminded me of something Mohler said in the Together for the Gospel blog: “Evangelical scholars have a double duty in scholarship. We have to read the liberals’ books as well as the works of evangelical scholarship. The liberals, on the other hand, generally do not bother to read the evangelicals. Orthodox doctrine just doesn’t interest them, and they see us as hopelessly wedded to a dead and oppressive tradition. We must outread the opposition.”


20. Nath
February 28, 2007
2:56 AM

Here is a similar interview on YouTube: Click Here

God Bless,

Nath


21. Bob S
February 28, 2007
9:59 AM

May I add to the excellent argument of #8 (wonky), these same Apostles were frightened & in hiding before His ressurection. In Christ alone. Bob S


22. David_A
March 1, 2007
12:50 AM

I think I posted this previously in error …Here it is again …

There is a fine reflection on all this mess from REX MURPHY of CBC CANADA:

I have one or two minor questions… Do you think we’ll see any documentaries of like attempt and equal impertinence from James Cameron on Muhammad or Islam?

To ask the question is to answer it. Hollywood is only daring with Christianity, and why does Hollywood, which worships only itself and money, feel so blithely free to mock, degrade, toy with, and abuse the sacred story of billions of people and offer to Gospels no more respect than they would the script for “Showgirls?”

Probably the answer to that question is that the minds which produced “Showgirls” are so radically vulgar and stimulated at core only by greed and the lust for cheap fame. That frame of mind will prostitute anything… the life of Christ, other people’s religion for a stale press conference and a fresh buck.

Read the complete commentary at
http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_070227.html


23. R. F. White
March 2, 2007
8:30 PM

Question: What is a documentary?

Answer: how a liberal celebrates Christmas and Easter.


24. Charles Gadda
March 10, 2007
1:19 AM

This thing is obviously a scam — the name Jesus is not even legible on the ossuary.

Anyone who reads Hebrew or Aramaic can easily verify that this is the case. Look at the tracing for the “Jesus son of Yosef” box on the Discovery Channel site and you will immediately see that the name “son of Yosef” is clearly discernable towards the left, but that the letters yod, shin, vav and ayin (Yeshua) are only (at best) by remote conjecture to be found in the scrawled writing etched into the stone following the big X-like marking on the right.

Indeed, in the Catalogue of Jewish Ossuaries where the tracing of the inscription was first published, the transcriber carefully puts a dot over the letters yod and shin, indicating in standard fashion that his reading is conjectural, and he puts a question-mark after the entire name Yeshua meaning that he is doubtful of his own transcription. He was clearly groping, because the letters vav and ayin are also not discernable and he should have put dots over that part of his transcription as well. As everyone knows, there is another ossuary with the name Yeshua bar Yosef legibly inscribed on it, and it seems that the transcriber may have been influenced by that one in trying to figure out what this one says.

As for James Tabor who is promoting this silly film, he is the same character at the center of the claim that an “Essene latrine” has been found near the site of Khirbet Qumran, where so-called traditional Qumranologists (including, it would appear, Tabor himself) continue to insist, in the face of mounting contrary evidence, that a sect of Essenes lived. Tabor is also involved in the current biased and misleading exhibits of the Dead Sea Scrolls traveling around the country.

For details, see http://jesus-crypt-fraud.blogspot.com/ and the other postings published by the authors of that blog.

For Tabor’s previous attempt to hoodwink the public, see pp. 9-10 of the most recent article by N. Golb on the Oriental Institute’s website, http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/projects/scr/.

Professor Jim Davila’s blog (March 6, 2007) http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/ quotes Tabor as asserting to him in an email: “I have never excavated even one tomb, and I am not even an archaeologist and have never claimed to be such.”

Yet Tabor himself, in an article published in the Charlotte Observer, excerpted on the same paleojudaica blog a year ago (February 13, 2006), wrote: “As an archaeologist, I have long observed and experienced the thrill that ancient discoveries cause in all of us. The look on the faces of my students as we uncover ancient ruins from the time of Jesus, or explore one of the caves where the scrolls were found, is unmistakable.”

Tabor’s Ph.D. was awarded to him by the University of Chicago’s Department of New Testament and Christian Literature, housed in that institution’s Divinity School building. The title of his dissertation was “Things Unalterable: Paul’s Ascent to Paradise”. He clearly has no training as an archaeologist or historian, and we are only left to wonder at the motivations that led him to become involved in these phony scams.


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