This evening’s session, the fifth general session of the conference, was primarily a time of singing and worship. I have attempted to capture an account of the evening’s events that those who have never attended a Sovereign Grace event may be able to understand how they worship.
The evening began with “Come Now Almighty King” and soon transitioned to a Valley of Vision video featuring the prayer “Spiritus Sanctus.”
Awe in God’s Presence:
We sang “Holy, Holy, Holy” a cappella and then listened to the reading of Isaiah 6:1-8 as a prelude to a time of repentance.
Acknowledge that Sin Cannot Exist in God’s Presence:
This was a time of repentance and confession, both corporate and personal. There was a time of silence where we searched our own hearts and asked God to reveal our sin to us. We then sang “The Precious Blood” and were led in prayer by Craig Cabaniss who thanked God for His mercy in Christ.
Gratefulness for Jesus, Our Access Into God’s Presence:
The vocalists read Hebrews 4:14-16, Ephesians 2:13-18 and Hebrews 10:19-22 which reminded us that we have access into God’s presence only through Jesus Christ. We followed these Scriptures with “I Come By The Blood” and “Jesus Thank You.” There was then a time of spontaneous group singing where Bob encouraged each person to sing his own song to the Lord. While I love to hear 1000 voices sing a single song to the Lord, it was equally stirring to hear 1000 voices sing 1000 songs to Him.
Prayer for God’s Active Presence in My Life:
Bob began this section by stating he had been led to sing a prophetic song for the women in the audience named Katie. He asked all the Katies presence to come to the front and he sang a song for them, the theme of which was to encourage them and to direct them to the Word as the source of God’s voice.
Shannon Harris sang a new song, “Who Made Me To Know You” and Scripture verses were read between each of the verses. There was then a time of individual prayer where we were to ask God’s Spirit to be working in and through our lives. Bob asked us to consider where we desire God to be more active in our lives: “Holiness? Purity? Boldness? Resisting temptation? Faithfulness? Prayer? Hearing and responding to His voice?” Again, there was a time of spontaneous worship based around a chorus which said, “Come Holy Spirit, glorify Jesus in me.” A few people delivered words from the Lord centered around images they felt He impressed on their minds. Bob and another gentlemen felt that God wanted to heal those with migraines, arthritis and lower-body pain. People with such infirmities raised their hands and were soon surrounded by those sitting closeby who laid hands on them and prayed that God would heal them. After “There is a Redeemer,” we broke into groups of just three or four people, each of which prayed for the local churches represented by the men and women in that group. We were to pray for them to actively pursue the presence of God in their midst.
Prayer for God’s Active Presence in my Local Church and the World:
The final portion of this evening’s service began with a time of spontaneous prayer for the church. It was then time to pray for the worldwide church and people from six nations read the first three verses of Psalm 67 in their native languages. “May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face to shine upon us, that your way may be known on earth, your saving power among all nations. Let the peoples praise you, O God; let all the peoples praise you!” It was read by natives of Ethiopia, Kenya, Guatemala, Japan, Korea and Australia (What happened to Canada!?). How good it was to hear God’s name praised in five different languages! When they had prayed, we recited the Lord’s Prayer in unison and closed a wonderful evening of worship with “Let Your Kingdom Come,” a new song written by Bob Kauflin.
And now we look forward to an hour-long concert by Keith Getty, Kristyn Getty, and the church’s band.
Comments (18) »
1. Brian Thornton
August 12, 2006
12:08 AM
There was then a time of spontaneous group singing where Bob encouraged each person to sing his own song to the Lord. While I love to hear 1000 voices sing a single song to the Lord, it was equally stirring to hear 1000 voices sing 1000 songs to Him.
Is this some form of individual worship in a corporate setting? What’s the point (corporately) of this apparent confusion to the individual ear? In other words, why do this in a corporate worship setting? Do they do the same thing when speaking in tongues? When praying aloud?
Bob began this section by stating he had been led to sing a prophetic song for the women in the audience named Katie. He asked all the Katies presence to come to the front and he sang a song for them, the theme of which was to encourage them and to direct them to the Word as the source of God’s voice.
This seems quite bizarre. Led by WHOM? God? Why would God lead Bob to give a word ONLY to the Katies present regarding directing them to the Word? Did God NOT want to direct the others present to the Word as the source of God’s voice? What is the significance of this type of occurrence? Isn’t it ironic that Bob claimed to have gotten a ‘word’ (from God) to all the Katies that God’s Word is the source of God’s voice…and yet this ‘voice’(word) directed only to those named Katie didn’t come from THE Word?
Bob and another gentlemen felt that God wanted to heal those with migraines, arthritis and lower-body pain. People with such infirmities raised their hands and were soon surrounded by those sitting closeby who laid hands on them and prayed that God would heal them.
While mild compared to the antics on TBN and the like…this seems really no different except in degree.
How do these things mentioned in this post line up with true biblical worship? Quite honestly, I wish I hadn’t learned about this aspect of Sovereign Grace churches. Is this typical of what takes place on any given Sunday in an SGC? Or, is what takes place normally even more outlandish than what happened in this session?
My view of Sovereign Grace churches has sadly taken a blow this evening.
2. Gregory Pittman
August 12, 2006
12:18 AM
Brian, SG is both Reformed and charismatic. Indeed it is an unusual mix. And I wouldn’t describe myself as being charismatic. I was surprised by a few things that took place tonight (that is, I wasn’t expecting them). But, I must say that nothing was distasteful. It was all done in an orderly fashion. Yes, some of it seemed like ordered chaos, but these times were relatively short and were called back to order quickly. It honestly wasn’t as bad as you’re interpreting Tim’s write-up. I hope this helps.
3. Drew
August 12, 2006
12:41 AM
Brian,
I understand your frustration. I’m not charismatic, though not a cessationist, either. This week has been my first exposure to Sov Grace live and close up, and I arrived as a critic.
Had you been there, you would have seen all these elements handled in a very responsible manner. The “leadings” were considered just that - there was an admitted margin of error, but what was said was entirely biblical. (Bob taught on this Friday am.) I certainly don’t want to say “you had to be there,” and I wouldn’t say there are no questions to be asked, but my respect for SGM in regards to how they handle the charismatic aspect of their corporate worship actually increased. They show great responsibility and great humility in these expressions.
The Katie thing - Bob admitted that it was odd, but that it was an impression (not a voice or a word) he couldn’t shake, so he sang the song of encouragement, which was really a rendering of a lot of scripture and allusions that applied to everyone. He also said that wouldn’t be a regular thing. It looks really odd on the screen, but I’m surprised by how appropriate it seemed. I was uncomfortable with the guy on the floor who said God wanted to heal pain in someone’s lower extremities, and Bob even paused before saying he had a conversation about seeing something on TV and “what he didn’t want this to look like.” Bob did feel impressed to pray for folks with migranes (sp?) and arthritis(sp? again - it’s late). Even those prayers that I heard were wholly biblical, asking the Lord for healing, not “claiming a promise for healing.”
Truly, as an outsider, I was very encouraged and constantly pointed to the glory of Christ tonight. I’m certainly not going home from the conference a charismatic, but I am strengthened in my affection for Christ and awareness of the Triune God by all I have seen and heard. I don’t think you need to demote SGM for their expressions of worship tonight. I truly believe God and His sufficient Word were honored.
4. Drew
August 12, 2006
12:43 AM
Hey, Greg! Great to see you tonight!
5. Alex Leung
August 12, 2006
2:01 AM
In my heart, I echo Brian’s concerns. I myself am not attending the conference, nor do I attend a Charismatic/SG church.
But over the course of studying what God regulates in His Word about worship, I’ve come to find that all these ‘things’ SG/reformed charismatics ‘do’ in the corporate worship times come from a genuine heart of worship. From reading Bob Kauflin’s writings, the worship is indeed grounded in the Word of God AND led by the Holy Spirit.
Going to a Chinese Alliance church in Toronto, most people don’t raise their hands in worship - never mind voicing out their own songs/prayers in public. I’ve come to learn over the years to not box myself into one ‘way’ of corporate worshipping our Triune God, but appreciate that these gifts of praise given to us from God for His glory are simply different.
I really wish I could be there with you guys at Cov Life… thanx for sharing =D
6. Alan Davey
August 12, 2006
4:17 AM
I share your concerns, Brian.
How does 1000 voices singing 1000 songs fit with Paul’s concern in 1 Corinhians 14 for intelligibility, meaning and understanding - not to mention doing things in turn? “God is not a God of disorder, but of peace”, he says. Does having a special time of disorder make it order?
I love SG’s songs and their preaching which is both doctrinal and practical, but….
7. Tim Challies
August 12, 2006
7:36 AM
Let’s hold off on the questions for the time being. I presented this rundown as a means of showing how Sovereign Grace conducts such a service. In the coming days I’ll post some reflections on this and I think that will prove a more useful environment to discuss the kind of misgivings expressed above. I want to first gather my thoughts so I can be sure I am being charitable and am truly understanding how Sovereign Grace expresses its understanding of the continuing gifts. Because honestly, many of the questions Brian has asked, while not “bad” questions, can only be properly answered within a wider scriptural context. So let’s attempt to identify that context and answer the foundational questions before answering the others.
8. Mark Nichols
August 12, 2006
9:00 AM
Well, I have to say that I am not surprised by the spirited comments on last night’s session. With respect to Tim’s last post, I do want to make just a few observations to assist other’s evaluation of their experience.
First, my wife and I have attended Covenant Life Church for over a year. God has worked an amazing miracle in our lives during that time and it has occurred primarily through the teaching and centrality of the gospel at CLC as presented through the preaching AND music ministry. I have come to an understanding of the Grace and nature of God that I have never known before and the fruit in my and my family’s lives is real. God really does save lost sinners like me. My only response is one of praise for His mercy and love for me. I am also deeply thankful for the faithful gifts of all the pastors at CLC. As a musician I am deeply thankful for Bob Kauflin’s humility and faithful use of his many gifts.
That said, we have never experienced a worship time during the past 12 months quite like last night. It is noteworthy that as we sat waiting for the session to begin we engaged in a conversation with a man next to us who expressed concern over charismatic worship, particularly specific leadings and workings of the sprit in corporate worship. I confidently proceeded to assure him that at CLC this form of worship has never been central to the corporate experience. Then, the session began and we witnessed some of the very form of worship I had just assured him CLC never does.
I was very surprised by the experience which was comprised of 2 hours of worship and no message. The specific impressions concerning “Katie” and specific physical maladys immediately made me and my wife uncomfortable. Also, one of the things I truly love about CLC is what I experience as a balanced presentation of worship and teaching. The typical Sunday morning service goes very much like the Wednesday evening session did. One half of the time spend on worship through song and the other have devoted to scripturally grounded, gospel centered preaching. I did miss last night what I have come to expect from CLC, an awesome message. Thankfully my head is still feasting on the scriptural banquet Jeff Purswell gave on Wednesday night (the last session we attended).
For my part, I’m planning on praying, searching scripture, and Emailing Bob to ask about last night and why things went so differently from what we’ve typically seen at CLC. Even his awesome message from Friday morning (which I heard last Sunday when Bob preached at CLC) had a more conservative prophetic bend than what I experienced last night (i.e. “no mates, dates, correction, or direction”). While our immediate reaction was not comfortable, we were able to pull back from our initial aversion and to simply pray for God to enlighten us as to the meaning of all we saw. Allowing the truth of God’s word to lead our feelings and reactions and not the inverse is just another valuable lesson we have learned at CLC, and this experience is no different. For those whom this conference is their only experience of CLC and SGM, I would simply say that Wednesday night was a more representative experience to what typically happens on Sunday mornings. The Gospel is preached, Christ is exalted, and God gets all the glory…week after wonderful week.
9. Kathy M (the keyboard player's wife)
August 12, 2006
9:13 AM
Thanks so much for taking the time to record the happenings of the conference. I’m praying for the return trip home of you and all the attendees and that you all will be able to impart to your churches what God has stirred in your hearts. One last thought- there are NO reasons guitar players are better than piano players!
10. donsands
August 12, 2006
10:15 AM
Very interesting.
Thanks for the up to date post Tim. Looking forward to hearing your comments on last nights service.
11. ReformedMommy
August 12, 2006
5:36 PM
I’m willing to temporarily turn down my internal “spiritual wierdness” detector (which was going off at full strength) and simply identify my two BIG issues with this stuff.
1. We must not fall into the ever present trap of confusing sincerity with truth. Meaning well is not the same as doing well.
2. My greatest source of discomfort is around this idea of specific revelation - since my name is Rachael, why didn’t God have a word for me? If my dear friend who has cancer was there (and her name isn’t Katie either), what should she think? And shouldn’t there be some mechanism to test the validity of these words/impressions and protect those that want to speak them? We all know God’s requirement for those in the OT whose prophesied falsely …
That being said, I agree with previous posters that the fruit Bob et al at SG Music have borne, and the integrity with which they live and work, makes me willing to consider these things. The SW detector will for now be set to medium, instead of high …but never off!
12. Brian Thornton
August 12, 2006
11:17 PM
Tim,
I look forward to your additional thoughts on what took place during session five. About that session, you said this:
I have attempted to capture an account of the evening’s events that those who have never attended a Sovereign Grace event may be able to understand how they worship.
I will be interested to find out if what happened at that session IS in fact how SG’s worship…and, if so, whether the things in question add to the glorification of God and edification of the body, or just add confusion and unverifiable subjectivity.
13. David Malone
August 13, 2006
9:48 PM
Whew! As a Reformed Baptist, I was way out of my comfort zone even from the beginning of the conference. However, the zeal and exuberance seemed genuine and God centered. After a few sessions I found that I was able to glorify him with my whole being. Do I have questions about the Friday night service? Yep. The thing with “Katie” was different along with the praying for folks with arthritis and pain in the lower extremities. If I question anything, it would be about that. However, with that being said… God was greatly glorified in this service. There wasn’t anything that was unseemly or out of order. I was disappointed to not have God’s word preached but I can’t argue for it since the service wasn’t on the Lord’s day. Preaching at the conference was reformed, thorough, penetrating and exalted Christ and his finished work.
14. Shannon
August 14, 2006
10:06 AM
I just returned home from my first (and I hope not my last) SG conference. I was blessed in ways I had not imagined I would be. I come from a background that is NOT charismatic in the typical sense of the word. I, too, was squirming a little bit at the beginning of the service on Friday night, but the Holy Spirit soon quieted my anxious heart. I experienced something that I wish every believer in our church-saturated town in the south could have experienced! That was a room full of true believers from a variety of backgrounds worshipping our great God together, able to focus on the Biblical truths that bind us together, and not focused on the differences in style and non-essentials. I thank Him for real unity that comes from God and His Word.
15. Bob Myers
August 15, 2006
1:21 PM
I write as a PCA pastor, who also spent 14 years as a Pastor in the OPC, and a graduate of Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia. Either myself or my lovely wife have attended all the SGM Worship conferences since 1999. She drew the “lucky” straw and went this year with a group from our congregation.
I would caution the critics with 1 Thessalonians 5:19 “Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything: hold fast what is good.” I had a very “Un-Prebyterian” experience at a SGM worship conference that has had lasting spiritual impact in my life, and yes, even helped me understand applications from Scripture that I was not open to before.
I would encourage more openness from those who have not been exposed to this before, and recommend these individuals study Vern Poythresses paper at http://www.frame-poythress.org/poythress_articles/1996Modern.htm
On Supernatural Spiritual Gifts within a Cessationist framework.
Over the years I have come to believe that the Lord is much more concerned by the deadness, lack of any real expectation of meeting Him, and “Victorian English School Boy’ “hands in pockets” coldness that characterizes much of the Reformed community’s worship. Sovereign Grace Ministries through Bob Kauflin’s fine leadership is providing us a powerful and Biblically balanced corrective. May the Lord grant us teachable hearts to consider that we who are from Cessationist tinted theologies are the ones who ought to receive instruction from the servants of SGM, and be changed by things that we may have prematurely closed ourselves to.
Speaking as one PCA pastor, would that all of our churches worshipped with the intensity and freedom of SGM churches!
16. April Wanzer
August 15, 2006
2:56 PM
I’ve attended several SG worship conferences in years past.
The first conference I attended was in 2000. I call it my “freedom” conference. I had never before witnessed anything like what I saw and encountered that first day. To have been exposed in such a large corporate gathering, and seeing hearts glorifying God, was overwhelming to say the least.
I attended that conference with so much baggage, a religious mindset, and my own unwillingess and determinations of just how much and how far I was willing to go in God. But in God’s mercy, and His grace, He knew exactly where I needed to be and what I needed, so that He could begin to change my way of thinking. I left the 2000 conference a renewed soul.
Much of these discussions has been focused on what seemed to appear as “organized chaos”, and I am yet another who simply wants to share what I encountered, with particular reference on what I gather will now be referred to as the “Katie moment”.
I want to start out by simply asking the question, is there supposed to be some limitation on what God uses to speak to His people?
While I abolutely agree we have the responsibility to know the word for ourselves, and should be able to discern that which is scripturally sound, I did not see any portion of what occurred during that time as anything but God. What I sensed, was a God-orchestrated moment, speaking encouragement into the heart of not just “Katie” but others like her. My own daughter who is part of our worship ministry, was also in attendance, and she too needed to hear that message, and her name doesn’t even come close to “Katie”, but the message surely applied. Why it was presented in a format that mentioned a “specific name”, I can only trust is the vehicle that God chose to use to speak the message “to and through”.
As I noted earlier, we need to know God’s truths for ourselves. We are also charged to “test the spirits”, but, even still, who are we to determine what form, or vehicle, God should use to send a message that speaks into the life of someone that He’s determined needs a specific message from Daddy’s heart? (I’m sure someone out there has some scripture reference to refute this statement). I still say nonetheless, He is still God.
If anything during our corporate worship seems questionable, or seems uncomfortable to me, the first place I’m checking is “myself” because of what could surely be my own limitations in my ways of thinking that are trying to limit what God wants to do during that time.
SG presents these conferences consistently with God at the center, God as the focus and His truths given. If this were not the case, I don’t believe I would have ever come to the realization the depth and magnitude of my sin.
Just my two cents.
God Bless,
April Wanzer
Calvary Gospel Church
17. Steve Sensenig
August 15, 2006
11:14 PM
April,
I so appreciate your comment above. What a great balance to bring to this subject. May your tribe increase!
And Tim, I sure appreciate your tender spirit in the way you presented this stuff, too. Your tribe could certainly stand to grow a bit, too!
steve :)
18. April Wanzer
August 18, 2006
12:30 PM
Greetings, Steve:
I’ve been out of the loop for a few days and just had the chance to review the comments.
I do enjoy reading all of the comments that some of the attendees have made here on the blog. I also hope that in no way have I offended any of the readers, as that is not my intent.
Since attending these conferences, the Lord has revealed Himself to me in ways that I could never imagine—and yet still, I have a long way to go.
I have taken so much back to my own church, and shared with members of my own worship team, and people in our church, and seen firsthand a move of God.
I have always said, God’s greatness is too big for my brain to hold. That would explain (at least for me!) why we don’t always understand everything that God does.
How I love Him; He is an AWESOME GOD!
Blessings,
—April