The Passion of The Christ - Results? :: :: A Reformed, Christian Blog

I’m very glad you asked this question, Tim. There has been much to-do in my church about the movie but I haven’t heard anything solid in the way of results or impact on unbelievers. Of course as you intimated there may be more on that in the future…it’s interesting but as I’ve listened to people in the small groups I’m involved in talk about this movie, it’s the extra-biblical stuff they always end up speculating about. It doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened, but I haven’t heard of anyone specifically who’s gotten saved or even visited our church because of it. It’s the craziest thing. One girl in a small group told me I should go see it, and when I told her I was happier with the Biblical text, she said, Oh, but it’s just not the same as seeing the movie!

My church gave an altar call after supplying free tickets and claimed 400 or so first-time decisions, but I haven’t noticed any increase in attendance the past two weeks. Maybe they all went to Roman Catholic services!

I believe that the Holy Bible is inspired of God and is a closed canon. It is God’s complete and final Word to men of earth during these last days.

“God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by the Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds.” Hebrews 1:1,2

Anyone claiming to have received extra biblical revelations from God should be rejected not embraced. It has been made public that Mel Gibson’s depiction of the suffering and crucifixion of our Blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was based on Anne Catherine Emmerich’s book “The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” In this book Anne Emmerich claims that extra biblical details of Christ’s suffering and crucifixion were revealed to her.

Christians would do well to remember that Satan is a master deceiver and is never to be trusted. If the revelations contained in this book “The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” did not come from God, then we must ask, from whence did they come? And for what purpose?

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils:” Timothy 4:1

We are treading on dangerous ground when we start accepting extra biblical revelations of any kind, how much more so when we accept those concerning the vicarious suffering and crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ - one of the most fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith.

God inspired men to write exactly what He intended for us to know concerning the passion of our Lord. And what He did not pen we should be content to wait for Him to make known when we see Him face to face.

“The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” Deuteronomy 29:29

I have one. My eldest daughter who reluctantly agreed to see the movie with me, cried through the entire movie. SHe is not a Christian and runs from every conversation I attempt to engage in with her. She sat in my car one night after the movie, finally discussing her thoughts and I listened to Joseph (my 13 year old) witness to her like I have never heard him do before. Also, the other night at the kitchen table when he was talking about some Christian issues, my other daughter was challenging him on his thoughts and the eldest (who attended the movie) was encouraging and defending Joseph’s opinions and decisions. Wow…that’s good enough for me. If that movie moves my daughter to cry and do alot of thinking - which I know one day will bring her to Christ then it has positive impact. I think we often want to see God’s movement or results in our time, we have to wait for his. These results may not be immediate, but I am most positive that there are flocks of people being reached because of the movie. And, I am not sure it’s all about “numbers” in droves. Just my thoughts!

Randy, I was remembering when I first became a Christian, I did not immediately run to church every single week. It was a slower process for me in my growth that brought me to church every week. I don’t think we are going to see numbers staggering in. It’s the personal relationships the new Christians have yet to recognize and build that will show impact. Once they “get the idea” of the personal relationship with Christ, then we will see it.

I’ve heard it said that attendance in one nearby church had increased by 130 since the movie, which would be about a 50% increase, I believe. I do think the movie may have had a faith-building influence on people who were already believers. I myself have not seen it yet, and don’t really want Gibson’s imagery to dominate my thoughts every time I read the Biblical account. But it has brought the Cross back to centerstage of the evangelical imagination, so that can’t be all bad.

But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man who shall do a mighty work in my name, and be able quickly to speak evil of me.

For he that is not against us is for us. (john 9, 39-40)

Cheri, I agree with you, that time will tell about these things. It is encouraging to us mothers particularly to see our children moved emotionally about the things of God, and I have heard about a lot of emotional response to this movie. Thinking about all these things is also good, if that thinking brings a person into obedience to the gospel, and of coursre that can be a process that takes time. I just see a lot of emotional reaction to all kinds of things…Mel’s movie, songs, videos and skits in church, and that’s a natural and expected thing, to be very moved emotionally, but I know for myself that as a Christian for years I depended on those feelings much more than I realized to let me know if I was on the “right track” or not. Emotions can be so deceiving! In my case, they sort of lulled me into being a hearer only of the Word and not a doer. When someone really understands the gospel they may be quite moved emotionally but they will also be moved to obedience to God’s Word. Of course you know that, but as the mom of three grown children still waiting to see those children walking faithfully and in obedience to the Lord, I want to encourage you to be discerning and see through your childrens (and other people’s) emotions and look for truth and, with God’s wisdom and love, speak to them about it. I am always tempted to be too encouraged (or discouraged, as the case may be!) by things my children say and feel, and I don’t say we should discount their words and feelings at all, but at the same time we shouldn’t rely on them at all..in other words, I need to keep praying just the same no matter how encouraged or discouraged I’m tempted to be by their words, until I see obedience and the fruit of the Holy Spirit in their lives. May that day come sooner rather than later for you and me!

Jeri thank you for taking the time to share. The words “emotions” tug at me as there is so much more to the word than we think about. Your words - so wonderful and true. A reminder to pray continually day and night for our children and of the children around us. Thank you !!

3-18-04

Dear Ones,

Mr. Gibson’s making of “Passion of the Christ” movie shall cause mankind to react in about the same fashion as the Iraq war results … in that … BOTH a good and bad report shall come out of it! However, the important message SHOULD be the same in that:

“You shall know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall (should) set one free!”

Mr. Gibson’s movie does NOT film “TRUTH” that happened during the 12 hour time-frame documented in the WORD. It does have some “truth” in it … but … misses the real “TRUTH” that might mis-lead a viewer!

Man’s “vain” … emotional … artistic … special effects … imagination can be very “deceptive” to trick mankind’s senses to be impressed … but … it (the deception) will ONLY add lots of “leaven” to the whole lump of “TRUTH” and greatly contaminate many with mis-understanding that partake in it.

The WORD (LORD JESUS) said: “I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life … and … NO MAN(kind) shall cometh unto the Father but by ME!”

Please … please … be very careful NOT to follow man’s “vain” (“flesh”) nature of imagination and emotional artistic talent to believe what is being portrayed as the (“spiritual”) TRUTH nature of the event that took place over 2,000 years ago.

One DOES NOT have to go see this movie to visualize the “great” price paid to set mankind free. All this can easily be obtained by reading the “WORD” and NOT depend on a man’s artistic (million $$$$$) talent to touch the emotional senses to increase one’s faith!

Faith is to come by “hearing” … and … “hearing” … and “hearing” … and “hearing” … by the WORD of GOD” and … NOT, NOT, NOT by “seeing” … and “seeing” … and “seeing” … what man(kind) thinks, guesses, or can IMAGINE (???) to be the “spoken” WORD of GOD!

Mr. Gibson has missed the “SPIRIT of TRUTH” but will capitalize “greatly” in acceptance of rewards ($$$) and accolades of man(kind) and its “flesh” side in believing he “rightly” divided the WORD of TRUTH.

“FATHER have mercy on THEM … for THEY know NOT what THEY do!” (Jesus’ WORDS from the CROSS!)

The WORD of GOD says to: “Study to show thy self approved onto GOD that a workman need NOT be ashamed RIGHTLY divding the WORD of TRUTH.”

Mr. Gibson tried but METHINKS he added lots of “flesh” nature in trying to document by film the WORD of TRUTH.

Please keep him in your prayers for understanding!

In HIS Name, Brother LEO

PROVERBS 4:7 MATT 15:16 +++

P.S… The “WORD OF GOD” has spoken to my heart to NEVER see this film!

The whole thing is a sickening travesty as far as I can see. Commercialism and profiteering from the agony of Christ? How can any Christian support this? The Story of Christs crucifixition is there in the Gosple for all to read, we do not need a multi-million movie to show it to us.

I would like to know how much of Mr. Gibsons profit will be going to feeding the starving, and genuine Christian ministry.

In Christ Helen

The whole thing is a sickening travesty as far as I can see. Commercialism and profiteering from the agony of Christ? How can any Christian support this? The Story of Christs crucifixition is there in the Gosple for all to read, we do not need a multi-million movie to show it to us.

I would like to know how much of Mr. Gibsons profit will be going to feeding the starving, and genuine Christian ministry.

In Christ Helen

The whole thing is a sickening travesty as far as I can see. Commercialism and profiteering from the agony of Christ? How can any Christian support this? The Story of Christs crucifixition is there in the Gosple for all to read, we do not need a multi-million movie to show it to us.

I would like to know how much of Mr. Gibsons profit will be going to feeding the starving, and genuine Christian ministry.

In Christ Helen

This movie has caused huge segments of the world’s population to ponder on and discuss who Christ was, and what was the significance of His suffering, death, and resurrection. It has opened up countless opportunities for Christians to witness to the lost.

Is it perfect? No. Does it have flaws? Yes. Any movie would, because movies are made by flawed humans. For example, if the author of this very website did his own Passion movie, it would also be flawed. So what? The same can be said for any sermon ever preached, any non-Biblican book ever written, any song ever song.

No, this movie isn’t perfect. However, do we throw it out? No. Instead, let’s use it. Let’s seize the opportunity that this movie has presented to us to reach the lost all around us.

In Christ, Lee

Lee - I do not doubt that God can and will use this movie. But, as I have said several times on this site, that does not remove our responsibility as believers to examine the movie and discern whether or not it is something we should embrace.

The whole thing is a sickening travesty as far as I can see. Commercialism and profiteering from the agony of Christ? How can any Christian support this? The Story of Christs crucifixition is there in the Gosple for all to read, we do not need a multi-million movie to show it to us.

I would like to know how much of Mr. Gibsons profit will be going to feeding the starving, and genuine Christian ministry.

What if —instead of (or in addition to) giving some of it to the needy— Gibson used the bulk of his profits, and the power that goes along with it, to challenge the cultural sewer known as Hollywood to move in a moral and Christian direction with the kinds of movies it cranks out?

IMO, that could have a more enormous impact on the country, and not just in the entertainment biz, than willynilly giving the profits away. Let’s forget that one of Jesus’ own disciples also complained when a great amount of money was spent on expensive perfumed oil to anoint Jesus’ feet. That disciple also insisted that the money should have been used to “feed the starving” instead. He was usually pretty clueless about what was really more important.

Tim,

Thank you for your reply. I do not mean to be disprespectful in any way - I have an honest question. Can you please clarify your position on the movie? You wrote to me;

“I do not doubt that God can and will use this movie.”

However, from reading your comments I assumed that you did doubt that God has used or will use the movie. Specifically, you wrote;

“It has been three weeks since the movie released and I have seen little in the way of results.”…

and

“…but am just not seeing it having that effect with unbelievers.”

and,

“Is there someone who can tell me about the results this movie has had in their church? Can someone point me in the direction of articles showing the positive effects this movie has had on unbelievers?”

The name you’ve given this string is “The Passion of The Christ - Results?”

Also, I agree with you on your second point - it is important that we use discernment with regards to what we embrace. For me, however, it’s an easy decision. I wholeheartedly embrace the movie. Any movie that causes so many to ponder who Jesus was and why He died and rose again for us is something I can stand behind.

Thanks again for your reply, Lee

Lee - I certainly do not mind you asking questions. I choose to publish my thoughts in a public setting so am happy to answer questions!

It is not that I doubt that God has used and will use this movie - I just wonder how much He has used it. Remember, the evangelical world was pitching this as the greatest evangelism opportunity in the past 2000 years. Several weeks after the movie’s release I see little to support that claim. I have seen some results even in my own church, but certainly nothing that would blow my mind.

I do believe that this movie is having a far greater effect on believers than on unbelievers. Though there is nothing inherently wrong with that, it does not support the claim of outreach.

So I suppose what I am looking for is stories of how it has been used to reach unbelievers…

You said “Also, I agree with you on your second point - it is important that we use discernment with regards to what we embrace. For me, however, it’s an easy decision. I wholeheartedly embrace the movie. Any movie that causes so many to ponder who Jesus was and why He died and rose again for us is something I can stand behind.”

I would suggest that the results cannot be trusted to show the rightness or wrongness of the movie. Satan is as able to provide results as God is, so we need to look beyond results and look to the Bible which Satan cannot touch.

Tim,

Thank you again for your reply.

I categorize the movie as more of a “plant the seed”, “water the seed” than I would an evangelistic harvesting tool. Perhaps that is why we are seeing it have more of an effect on believers than unbelievers – in the short term. It remains to be seen what effect it will have in the long term as those seeds prayerfully germinate.

I heard the same things you did about the movie prior to it’s opening - church leaders saying that this movie could be the greatest evangelical tool ever. However to their credit, I also heard them say that the movie creates more questions that it answers and for it to succeed as an evangelistic tool, Christians need to be on hand and prepared to answer those questions and to present the Gospel. In my opinion, the movie does not stand on its own as an evangelistic tool. Unless the viewer knows the key theological elements of the Gospel prior to seeing the movie, they’ll remain uninformed after. However, it is an extremely powerful movie that is provoking discussion among vast numbers of people who are thinking about Jesus, who He was, and why He did what He did. That’s a very, very good thing.

Regarding your final statement; “I would suggest that the results cannot be trusted to show the rightness or wrongness of the movie. Satan is as able to provide results as God is, so we need to look beyond results and look to the Bible which Satan cannot touch.”

I’m wondering what you mean here. You asked for results so I assumed you were interested in determining the movie’s spiritual impact by it’s results. If we can’t trust the results, and need to look beyond them, why ask for them? No malice intended here – just a question.

I agree with you that the Bible must be our ultimate indicator of right/wrong, good/bad. I also believe that we can and should examine results – or fruits. Jesus said; “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” Indicating Jesus approves of us being ‘fruit inspectors’. But to your point, how can we know who is behind the results – whether God or Satan? Well, when the scribes accused Jesus of casting out devils by the prince of devils, Jesus answered; “How can Satan cast out Satan?”… “And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand…” While Satan can conjure up miracles and wonders (Pharaoh’s magicians duplicating Aaron’s rod=serpent miracle), I don’t know of a Biblical account where Satan did anything that resulted in furthering the kingdom of God. Knowing this can help us determine the true source of The Passion’s results.

By the way, I love your website and I’m glad I found it. You are an excellent writer, a wealth of knowledge, and your book reviews are terrific. Keep up the great work!

A big fan, Lee

Lee - I agree that this movie may plant some seeds and that it is the church’s job to then water those seeds.

The reason I have asked for results (knowing it could make me seem inconsistent) is that all the people who praised the movie before it released - the ones who told churches to rally around this movie - appealed to the results. None of them appealed to Scripture to do this. Rather, they appealed to the results they were sure we would all see. So I was merely asking for evidence of those results.

Now I have seen some results…just not a whole lot. So I am wondering if what I have seen is typical or atypical.

I believe Satan is willing to allow a few people to “escape” if it generally results in the furthering of his goal. I imagine Satan is the world’s greatest utilitarian and if he can do damage to the church despite losing a few people to God’s kingdom, he’d be willing to make that trade. Perhaps a metaphor would be the American military action in Iraq - though they knew it would cost them some of their own men they were willing to risk that for the furthering of their objectives.

Tim,

Have you found any scriptural accounts of Satan being willing to lose a few people in order to gain a larger number? I am not aware of any.

Lee - I knew you would ask that. And no, not off-hand. However, I do think it would be consistent with how he acts.

To turn the question around, when something obviously evil happens (we can use 9/11 as an example) can we say that Satan had nothing to do with it since it caused people to examine themselves and eventually become Christians?

IMHO, to paraphrase what Someone once said, it is a foolish and shallow generation which seeketh after quick fixes: IOW, entertaining the notion of looking for “results” —either dramatic or numerous— from The Passion is waaaaay too premature.

The Apostle Paul spent years in Tarsus developing his Christian life and teaching before he set foot on the missionary trail. And he already had years of training in Jewish theology and the Scriptures under the great Rabbi Gamaliel before being discipled by the other Apostles. Jesus’ own disciples spent three years with Him day in and day out, yet were still pretty much clueless until the Holy Spirit came to them at Pentecost. Even then, it took a couple of decades for the early church to get going, and 300 years of persecution before making progress as a force to be reckoned with.

I realize that Gibson’s film has been promoted far and wide as an evangelistic tool for introducing unbelievers to Jesus, and IMO it has much value in that area. But it’s really more valuable IMO as a spiritual development tool for pampered and spoiled modern-day Western Christians who, unlike our spiritual ancestors in ancient and medieval times, know next to nothing about experiencing suffering and witnessing death and don’t want to meditate on anything “unpleasant,” such as the very violent suffering and death Jesus endured, both inside and out, to free us from our sinfulness. (The spiritual gains from meditating on that have never been instant!)

The film is far more contemplative than expository or evangelistic, and that’s to be expected since Gibson said time and again that his film was intended to be his personal artistic meditation on the sacrifice of Jesus for him and the rest of us, and his way of expressing his love and gratitude to the Savior for saving him from spiritual ruin and suicide 12 years ago.

What Gibson created was the result of almost 30 years of experience and hard work in the filmmaking field combined with a very valuable lesson in life (disillusionment and despair by allowing fame and fortune to become his gods) followed by a dozen years of growing in the faith.

IOW, The Passion didn’t happen overnight, and neither will any widespread long-term benefits —especially conversion numbers— which may flow from it.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/leaders/newsletter/2004/cln40316.html

Rick Warren of Saddleback Community Church in Lake Forest, California says

“First, we planned a two-part sermon series, “Understanding the Passion,” to bookend both sides of the movie’s release. Next, we booked 47 theater screens for members to take their lost friends to. Third, Kay and I personally invited over a thousand lost community leaders of Orange County to a VIP premiere showing, including every mayor, congressman, superintendent of schools, other community leaders, and four billionaires, most of whom I’d never met. Then, in anticipation of all the lost friends brought by members, we added two more services to our regular weekend schedule of nine. Finally, we prepared a three-week small group curriculum on The Passion for follow-up.

The results? Over 600 unchurched community leaders attended our VIP showing; 892 friends of members were saved during the two-week sermon series. Over 600 new small groups were formed, and our average attendance increased by 3,000.”

John - I addressed that news item here. Though I agree it is significant, I do not necessarily trust Saddleback numbers. Watch the way his numbers jump from members, to attendees to church rolls.

There is no doubt Saddleback saw some significant success. But there are thousands of other churches who also did Passion programs…

Tim

I also think that it might be consistent with how Satan acts, however, since there are no scriptural precedents for that theory, we need to consider that it may not be true, and if it isn’t true, “The Passion” – even with it’s flaws – isn’t an evil tool of Satan (that some postings seem to suggest) because the movie continues to have an impact for the kingdom of God.

In terms of 9/11 (and I hope you are raising this extreme example to make a point only, and don’t truly feel that 9/11 and “The Passion” coexist in any category), your question presumes that there are only two sources for events - God and Satan – and doesn’t consider the third source; the free will of man.

Let me turn the question back to you. Is it possible that Satan hates and fears “The Passion” movie and will do everything and anything to reduce it’s impact, including leveraging the concerns of well-intentioned Christians to hyper-focus on the movie’s flaws drawing attention away from its powerful message?

John S -

I was filming a segment for a children’s television show at Saddleback Church about 6 years ago. It happened to be on a Sunday morning and during a break, I walked over to the the main sanctuary. With all of the people that were walking in and out it looked like I was between services. I was suprised that the large majority of people in attendance were not carrying Bibles. I probably saw 4 or 5 Bibles among hundreds of people.

I have not been there since, so I don’t know what it’s like now. Certainly there is the possibility that I was there on an odd Sunday where normal services had been replaced by a special event of some kind - I just don’t know.

Anyway, my question is; How much emphasis is there on Bible teaching at Saddleback in your opinion? I’ve met two people at my work that claim they go there, but I had no idea they even claimed to be Christians, and one of them seems to know very little of even the most basic Bible doctrine. Please don’t misunderstand, I attend a large church and with all of those people there very well may be a couple of people of whom the same could be said.

Just wondering what your take is.

Thanks, Lee

Philippians 1:15-18 tells us that people will preach Christ out of different motives some good some bad.

What was Mel’s motives - doesn’t matter as Christians we can rejoice that Christ is being preached.

Does the Passion miss the point? - Do you think Pauls troublers were preaching Christ accurately, probably not since they weren’t Spirit filled. Does it matter? It definately matters that Christians present the Gospel accurately, but we can also rejoice with Paul when Christ is preached, false motives or true.

relax dudes

Dude Man - I think most people who disagree with this movie are still rejoicing in the fact that Jesus is being discussed and being presented in what is generally an accurate manner. But your argument seems to presuppose that Paul would not have spoken out against the areas the people who were unbelievers yet preaching Christ were wrong in. Gibson presents a partially true version of the gospel story - I rejoice that people are getting at least part of the story, yet am sorry that they are also getting much that is wrong.

There are many Scriptures that give us serious warnings about mishandling God’s word. These warnings were for both the Jew who was under the law as well as for us the redeemed gentiles. We are not to mix the law with grace just as much as we are not to fellowship with those of darkness. Just as Light cannot dwell with darkness we are not to serve two masters. We are to hate the one (Father of lies) and love and serve the other (God the Father of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ)only.

To lean on our own understanding by rationalizing the fact that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ can do all things even using this movie to reach the lost is presumptous. Why, because God has never used the methods of the flesh or the wisdom of men to save the perishing (disobedient, faithless) apart from His Word. Don’t you know that He exalts His own Word above His own name and by that same Word of God the worlds were framed so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. Why is God so adament towards His own Word? It’s because He is not a man that He would lie. He is a Spirit and we are to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

Another important element that I think many are not defending is the importance of faith (taking God at His Word). Remember that “the” faith that saves the sinner is not of men or by men, it (that is faith) only comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? I can’t imagine the lost being the ones who are sent, could you? It is only those who are the called of God (all faith-based Christians)that can carry this precious Gospel. For without faith it is impossible to please God.

Another thing, does this movie ever explain why Christ died for the sinner. You know someone may ask what’s the difference between him and the countless numbers (thousands) of criminals and probably innocent men and women who experienced crucifixtion and died throughout the Roman Empire. Now if He was not raised from the dead as the Gospel (the Word of God) proclaims that He was indeed raised bodily than there really isn’t hope for any in this life. That’s the difference!

Therefore it is so imperative that we preach not only His death on the cross for our sins which was according to the Scriptures but just as important is that He was buried and was raised from the dead according to the Scriptures. Nothing less than these three events can save any lost man or woman apart from faith. There is no other way or thing that can please God but faith in His Word, not man’s word but God’s.

Reckon the old man dead to sin, crucified with Christ, buried with Him and Raised with Him, which is our justification.

Continue in faith and not works!

First the facts - I am not some die-hard fan of Mel. No movie, no matter how biblical it is, should ever take place of the Bible. There probably was some inaccuracies in the movie. Mel Gibson forked out millions of dollars to do what he thought God wanted him to do. He gave before he ever saw a return and that is Jesus model for giving. Commercialism - this is America there is no way around it and Mel couldn’t have stopped it, so get over it. This film has encouraging Christians. More than that Christians are taking steps of faith that they might not have other wise. (2 examples – (1) I ran into a guy at the Shea 14 movie theater in Scottsdale AZ who saw the movie and led 2 boys, he never met, to Jesus in the parking lot after they had all just got out of the movie. He was so moved by the boys decision that he came back an hour later with Bibles and was asking others to consider Jesus. (2) Our church gave out free tickets if you would invite a friend. That same night I ran into a fellow church member who was there with her 2 non-churched unsaved coworkers.) We will never see global results till every Christian personally is committed to his/her individual results, so get committed if you are not. Read Rick Warrens books to know what he and his church stands for and who cares if your church has 10 faithful members or 10,000. Bigger is not better in God perspective, it’s just bigger.

Now for my opinion:

Anyway, I saw the movie and thought the same as every other individual I have ever heard comment on it; it was awesome. This movie is probably the biggest public display of Christianity in the last century. The 1 thing I think Satan will use to destroy this movies effectiveness is disassociation. It allows you to not have any personal responsibility to identify yourself with the central message. Few will disagree that the central theme is about Christ. But if you renounce the movie you can just dance around the edges of the film on the non-central issues. You can say it was to Catholic, it had to many inaccuracies, it wasn’t realistic, it didn’t finish the job, and on and on… Meanwhile you never take personal responsibility for the crucifixion or help other see the real central message – Jesus died for you and me. People are talking about this movie and we need to draw ourselves into the conversation and point them to truth. If Satan can divide us on this movie than he wins. As long as Christians feel no need to share then we have been silenced and ultimately the battle is over. Grab an easy chair, a bag of popcorn, and throw in a Disney movie cause that is what this movie will amount to. If Christians don’t talk about it then it is no better than Finding Nemo and Aladdin.

Todd wrote: “….as probably the biggest public display of Christianity in the last century. How can you make such a statement being just a man who can’t see the hearts of others or even you’re own. Be careful in your estimation because the Word of God which is to be handled by the body of Christ, not the Church building but the genuine Christian who has been given this precious Gospel should be from their manner of life the greatest public display of Christ.

Haven’t we been taught by the Apostle Paul to reckon ourselves dead to sin but alive unto God for righteousness so that we won’t continue to live for ourselves but for Him. Now did you ever get a hint from this movie that that’s the reason why He died for us? I am curious if any one who saw this movie ever asked the question that this movie encourages them to have faith in Christ’s death and resurrection and that they are to live by it. The reason why I have shared that, is because I hear many people saying that this movie encouraged them, well encouraged them for what? To be living sacrifices in proclaiming the truth of the Gospel or to just invite other friends and collegues to see the movie because other Christians are doing it.

On the contrary, what you’re seeing is a reliance on things that are of this world instead of things of the Spirit like the Word of God. Another thing that bothers me is that right off the bat we think that the power of God has been manifested by this movie because were hearing that it’s selling like hocakes and that many people are responding means that God is doing something or the all familiar saying that we lead someone to the Lord. Well, tell me what was it that you used to lead them, if wasn’t His word than you’re relying on a counterfeit. Remember that being saved is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. However, “the” faith that saves can only come from hearing and hearing by the Word of God and by no other source.

Did you know that the word of God teaches that we are to be living epistles to be read and seen by all men. That we are to be ready to give an answer to those who would ask us about the hope that is in us. Now if you’re not saved you can’t be a living sacrifice, or an epistle or have the hope that is in you, which is Christ in you. Now how are we saved? well the only incredient is faith and it only comes by hearing His word, if not than you’re still lost. These are many of the reasons why the Church has been so powerless in our generation because it all stems from not having a total reliance on His Word.

In addition, we have to understand that the Gospel of Christ was to persuade by means of the message preached to men and women that what Christ accomplished both on the cross and in His resurrection was to put to death the old sin nature but at the same time give life(quicken)us who were dead because of sin to become new men and women in Christ, redeemed, justified, forgiven and many more of the those gracious virtues of God’s salvation towards us. Romans 7:4-6; 8:10-11; Ephesians 2:1-10; Romans 10:8-9; I Cor 15:1-4; Ephesians 1:13-14; Romans 1:16, 3:21-22. Now if you don’t believe these truths than you’re believing another message.

Sadly many today are ignorant of these truth’s and I hope that they would give God’s word the opportunity to humble them so that they can experience His death and resurrection personally -that’s what it means to be a Christian. Just as He died first and then rose again, we too are to (reckon)count our lives by faith crucified and buried with Christ and a raised with Him to new life.

If you want to please God have faith in these truths, Romans 1:17 & Galatians 1:19-21.

todd

I like what you had to say. I am of the opinion that God can use the violest sinner or the most holy dude to accomplish His will. When I think of the Scriptures I remember times when God controlled unbelievers to accomplish His will, especially in the Old Testament. - This isn’t to say that I am assuming you are disagreeing with this Matthew - I also agree that there should be a certain wearyness over this movie that it doesn’t add up to a complete or even accurate witness tool, but obviously it has initiated interest, and awareness of Christ, and as Christians I think we can cash in on this - carefully. I haven’t seen the movie yet myself, but I probably will, that way I can at least speak to unbelievers about it.

Dude man, I can’t argue with the fact that God does what He wants to do but we can with the support of His Word say that He will not do anything that is contrary to it. Correct?

Now your statement,

“When I think of the Scriptures I remember times when God controlled unbelievers to accomplish His will, especially in the Old Testament”.

Sound’s like you’re implying that God can violate the free will of man by controlling them. Let’s examine this thought with your reference to the Old Testament. I think you may be referring to Pharoah’s encounter with Moses in regards to the deliverance of God’s people. Well, we know that the Scripture does say that God hardened Pharoah’s heart, but we know that Pharoah had the free will to choose what was right or wrong and we know it was the wrong choice. However, it wasn’t God who deliberatly hardened Pharoahs heart but it was God giving Pharoah up as a result of each plague to make the choice that really resulted in Pharoah hardening his own heart by virtue of his own free will as is evidenced in the rest of the story.

I am curious about what you’re using to gauge the effectiveness of this movie, is it faith or is it in what you see? That’s why I came across a little rigid with Todd’s statements regarding results because there is no way that you or I or anybody can see the hearts of men, that’s only the place where God can see. Scripture say’s “For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even the division of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12. Boy is that awesome! Now tell me do you think this movie has that kind of power, not even close because we know the creators of it compromised the real dialogue as was recorded in the Gospels accounts. I can’t understand the reasoning of those who said publicly they wanted to be true to the Gospel accounts but still mixed the truth with lies even using counterfeit visions. Now tell me what do you call that? It’s Compromise, pleasing men rather than God.

I don’t understand how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can substitute God’s Word, especially if it’s been totally inspired by Him for something else, it just doesn’t make sence.

Dudeman, I would rather encourage you to follow the Lord’s own words the same ones He taught His apostles, and it was “being that light that is set on a hill, so that all can see it” I paraphrased it a little but I hope you get what He mean’t. You see the Lord is much more concerned about His life being manifested in you and through you. Scripture say’s that the reason why others (the lost) will ask you for the hope that is in you and you’re to provide them an answer. I think the Lord is more concerned about real living and breathing people than those who attempt to portray Him through plays.

Dude man, I can’t argue with the fact that God does what He wants to do but we can with the support of His Word say that He will not do anything that is contrary to it. Correct?

Now your statement,

“When I think of the Scriptures I remember times when God controlled unbelievers to accomplish His will, especially in the Old Testament”.

Sound’s like you’re implying that God can violate the free will of man by controlling them. Let’s examine this thought with your reference to the Old Testament. I think you may be referring to Pharoah’s encounter with Moses in regards to the deliverance of God’s people. Well, we know that the Scripture does say that God hardened Pharoah’s heart, but we know that Pharoah had the free will to choose what was right or wrong and we know it was the wrong choice. However, it wasn’t God who deliberatly hardened Pharoahs heart but it was God giving Pharoah up as a result of each plague to make the choice that really resulted in Pharoah hardening his own heart by virtue of his own free will as is evidenced in the rest of the story.

I am curious about what you’re using to gauge the effectiveness of this movie, is it faith or is it in what you see? That’s why I came across a little rigid with Todd’s statements regarding results because there is no way that you or I or anybody can see the hearts of men, that’s only the place where God can see. Scripture say’s “For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even the division of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12. Boy is that awesome! Now tell me do you think this movie has that kind of power, not even close because we know the creators of it compromised the real dialogue as was recorded in the Gospels accounts. I can’t understand the reasoning of those who said publicly they wanted to be true to the Gospel accounts but still mixed the truth with lies even using counterfeit visions. Now tell me what do you call that? It’s Compromise, pleasing men rather than God.

I don’t understand how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can substitute God’s Word, especially if it’s been totally inspired by Him for something else, it just doesn’t make sence.

Dudeman, I would rather encourage you to follow the Lord’s own words the same ones He taught His apostles, and it was “being that light that is set on a hill, so that all can see it” I paraphrased it a little but I hope you get what He mean’t. You see the Lord is much more concerned about His life being manifested in you and through you. Scripture say’s that the reason why others (the lost) will ask you for the hope that is in you and you’re to provide them an answer. I think the Lord is more concerned about real living and breathing people than those who attempt to portray Him through plays.

Dude man, I can’t argue with the fact that God does what He wants to do but we can with the support of His Word say that He will not do anything that is contrary to it. Correct?

Now your statement,

“When I think of the Scriptures I remember times when God controlled unbelievers to accomplish His will, especially in the Old Testament”.

Sound’s like you’re implying that God can violate the free will of man by controlling them. Let’s examine this thought with your reference to the Old Testament. I think you may be referring to Pharoah’s encounter with Moses in regards to the deliverance of God’s people. Well, we know that the Scripture does say that God hardened Pharoah’s heart, but we know that Pharoah had the free will to choose what was right or wrong and we know it was the wrong choice. However, it wasn’t God who deliberatly hardened Pharoahs heart but it was God giving Pharoah up as a result of each plague to make the choice that really resulted in Pharoah hardening his own heart by virtue of his own free will as is evidenced in the rest of the story.

I am curious about what you’re using to gauge the effectiveness of this movie, is it faith or is it in what you see? That’s why I came across a little rigid with Todd’s statements regarding results because there is no way that you or I or anybody can see the hearts of men, that’s only the place where God can see. Scripture say’s “For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even the division of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12. Boy is that awesome! Now tell me do you think this movie has that kind of power, not even close because we know the creators of it compromised the real dialogue as was recorded in the Gospels accounts. I can’t understand the reasoning of those who said publicly they wanted to be true to the Gospel accounts but still mixed the truth with lies even using counterfeit visions. Now tell me what do you call that? It’s Compromise, pleasing men rather than God.

I don’t understand how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can substitute God’s Word, especially if it’s been totally inspired by Him for something else, it just doesn’t make sence.

Dudeman, I would rather encourage you to follow the Lord’s own words the same ones He taught His apostles, and it was “being that light that is set on a hill, so that all can see it” I paraphrased it a little but I hope you get what He mean’t. You see the Lord is much more concerned about His life being manifested in you and through you. Scripture say’s that the reason why others (the lost) will ask you for the hope that is in you and you’re to provide them an answer. I think the Lord is more concerned about real living and breathing people than those who attempt to portray Him through plays.

Dude man, I can’t argue with the fact that God does what He wants to do but we can with the support of His Word say that He will not do anything that is contrary to it. Correct?

Now your statement,

“When I think of the Scriptures I remember times when God controlled unbelievers to accomplish His will, especially in the Old Testament”.

Sound’s like you’re implying that God can violate the free will of man by controlling them. Let’s examine this thought with your reference to the Old Testament. I think you may be referring to Pharoah’s encounter with Moses in regards to the deliverance of God’s people. Well, we know that the Scripture does say that God hardened Pharoah’s heart, but we know that Pharoah had the free will to choose what was right or wrong and we know it was the wrong choice. However, it wasn’t God who deliberatly hardened Pharoahs heart but it was God giving Pharoah up as a result of each plague to make the choice that really resulted in Pharoah hardening his own heart by virtue of his own free will as is evidenced in the rest of the story.

I am curious about what you’re using to gauge the effectiveness of this movie, is it faith or is it in what you see? That’s why I came across a little rigid with Todd’s statements regarding results because there is no way that you or I or anybody can see the hearts of men, that’s only the place where God can see. Scripture say’s “For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even the division of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12. Boy is that awesome! Now tell me do you think this movie has that kind of power, not even close because we know the creators of it compromised the real dialogue as was recorded in the Gospels accounts. I can’t understand the reasoning of those who said publicly they wanted to be true to the Gospel accounts but still mixed the truth with lies even using counterfeit visions. Now tell me what do you call that? It’s Compromise, pleasing men rather than God.

I don’t understand how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can substitute God’s Word, especially if it’s been totally inspired by Him for something else, it just doesn’t make sence.

Dudeman, I would rather encourage you to follow the Lord’s own words the same ones He taught His apostles, and it was “being that light that is set on a hill, so that all can see it” I paraphrased it a little but I hope you get what He mean’t. You see the Lord is much more concerned about His life being manifested in you and through you. Scripture say’s that the reason why others (the lost) will ask you for the hope that is in you and you’re to provide them an answer. I think the Lord is more concerned about real living and breathing people than those who attempt to portray Him through plays.

Dude man, I can’t argue with the fact that God does what He wants to do but we can with the support of His Word say that He will not do anything that is contrary to it. Correct?

Now your statement,

“When I think of the Scriptures I remember times when God controlled unbelievers to accomplish His will, especially in the Old Testament”.

Sound’s like you’re implying that God can violate the free will of man by controlling them. Let’s examine this thought with your reference to the Old Testament. I think you may be referring to Pharoah’s encounter with Moses in regards to the deliverance of God’s people. Well, we know that the Scripture does say that God hardened Pharoah’s heart, but we know that Pharoah had the free will to choose what was right or wrong and we know it was the wrong choice. However, it wasn’t God who deliberatly hardened Pharoahs heart but it was God giving Pharoah up as a result of each plague to make the choice that really resulted in Pharoah hardening his own heart by virtue of his own free will as is evidenced in the rest of the story.

I am curious about what you’re using to gauge the effectiveness of this movie, is it faith or is it in what you see? That’s why I came across a little rigid with Todd’s statements regarding results because there is no way that you or I or anybody can see the hearts of men, that’s only the place where God can see. Scripture say’s “For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even the division of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12. Boy is that awesome! Now tell me do you think this movie has that kind of power, not even close because we know the creators of it compromised the real dialogue as was recorded in the Gospels accounts. I can’t understand the reasoning of those who said publicly they wanted to be true to the Gospel accounts but still mixed the truth with lies even using counterfeit visions. Now tell me what do you call that? It’s Compromise, pleasing men rather than God.

I don’t understand how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can substitute God’s Word, especially if it’s been totally inspired by Him for something else, it just doesn’t make sence.

Dudeman, I would rather encourage you to follow the Lord’s own words the same ones He taught His apostles, and it was “being that light that is set on a hill, so that all can see it” I paraphrased it a little but I hope you get what He mean’t. You see the Lord is much more concerned about His life being manifested in you and through you. Scripture say’s that the reason why others (the lost) will ask you for the hope that is in you and you’re to provide them an answer. I think the Lord is more concerned about real living and breathing people than those who attempt to portray Him through plays.

Matthew

I don’t disagree with anything that you have wrote in your last comment, infact I fully agree. …so you know, the actuall account I was mainly thinking of was Saul prophesying running around naked - totally out of character for a bitter old king.

But as for effectiveness of the movie for good - I have absolutely no idea.

Although I believe the origional question was meant to ask about information on groups of people, I thought I’d share my personal experience.

My parents went to see the film. At best, they are baby Christians (and have been at that stage for MANY years). More probably, they are not saved.

In any case, they saw the film. As soon as they left, they went home and got out their (dusty) Bible and went through the gospel accounts of Christ’s death to see how well the film stuck to the Bible accounts. We had a good conversation about what the Bible actually says.

I have tried speaking to them about Christ on numerous occasions, but with a few small exceptions they were not interested. I can not say what long term effect any of this will have on them, but I do know that it caused them to be inquisitive if only for a short time.

I pray that they will accept Christ as Savior, or if they have done that already that they will choose to live in a way that makes their choice clear to others and pleasing to God.

In answer to the origional question, I’d say that positive results were achieved when my parents were drawn to read their Bibles (wonder how long it took them to find them?) and in the fact that they called me to ask about things in the film and what they meant.

I can only say that the Sunday after Ash Wednesday I was visiting my Brother’s church and 16 “New” people were there because they went to see the movie, being invited by members of the church, and they wanted to know more. The result of this, I do not know but I do know that there were 16 more people in church, albeit a very large church, because of the movie. Now, if you will consider the good shepard who left his flock for just 1 missing…

Statistically I do not know how this has effected Christianity on the whole but even if only one person was lead to Christ it was worth every million Mel Gibson “made” on the film.

On a personal level I have this feeling that the point you were actually trying to make was that the amount of money Mel Gibson made was the true and only result he wanted and the point you wanted to make was that it was a money-making scheme and nothing more. I hope this is not the case but this is how it appears to me.

Helen,

Just a quick question, do you tithe 10% of your yearly total income? I know Mel Gibson does and in fact, he gives ever more.

Jan - It is great that Gibson tithes on his income, but if he is tithing to an organization like the RCC I would suggest it hardly matters.

I disagree that if only one person comes to the Lord through the movie it will have been worth it. God may choose to use this means to save someone, but that does not necessarily mean that God “endorses” it. After all, He has used some pretty awful circumstances to call people to repentance.

The Passion of The Christ - Results?

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