Christian Rap

One thing to remember is that rap music is fairly young, about 25 years old as a formal genre. Rock-n-roll is about 60 years old, so there is a difference in how we react and it is visible in history. This blog post and the questions it raises is the same sort of discussion that Chrisitans of the 60’s out Rock. The “Christian Rock” genre was invented and had mixed results, but the point is this: music is a cultural phenomenon not a metaphysical one and the gospel is incarnational in whatever culture it finds itself in.

Rap represents an urban culture that is mostly tied to African American culture, poverty, crime, promescuity, and vulgarity. Much of it is angry and contemptuous. However, many (not all) of these same attributes can be tied to Rock and Roll in that it was seen as something inherently rebellious. Culture give form to the music, but that does not mean the music gives form to the culture. In this respect, a Christian embedded in such a culture is not obligated to throw off the forms of the culture unless they are directly afront to standards of God’s Word.

The biggest problem with trying to argue that rap is inherently sinful (or Rock for that matter) is that it forces you to obtain some standard of what musical form is acceptable to God. Can you find that in the Bible? I submit that you cannot.

…and what about the “culture of sex, violence and exploitation that seems to surround the genre” of Rock n’ Roll?

If music is amoral as you suggest, then at what point does it become immoral? Surely lyrics by their very content can be immoral.

I put forward that once a instrument is played, the resultant music automatically becomes a moral situation.

If the music itself is amoral as you assert, surely the spirit behind the musician can be either moral or immoral. If the person playing is an unbeliever or a christian living in sin, their music will reflect some aspect of their hidden sin.

If this is the case, woe to us who accept all “christian label” music wholesale. Those failing to exercise discernment are ingesting the philosophy of the world unfiltered through those double minded hucksters of religion.

If a pastor can speak incorrect doctrine, how much more a “christian artist” can present ungodly lyrics and lifestyles in their presentation.

I’ve been reading Dr. Mohler’s worship articles (there are three of them so far). One of the things he said in the last one really articulates something I haven’t been able to put my finger on: “Will styles change? Yes. But the worship must always be God directed. ” There’s a great deal more but it fits with the gist of this post. Styles change but worship must please God. The lyrics you posted, Tim, though grammatically interesting, are entirely biblical and there are some folks out there that enjoy this type of music that will hear what they are saying and who they are saying it about—which is the whole point. Good post.

Much GraceJosh

I’m just waiting for the religious right to censor rap music the way they censor everything else they don’t agree with.

Whether it’s shutting up rebels by calling them “un-American” (see: Sen. Orrin Hatch’s anti-flag burning amendment) or crying foul with rap music (which you weren’t necessarily doing), if you’re not agreeing with these “morally right” Christians, you’re wrong.

What makes your morals any better than anyone else’s? Than 50 Cent’s? Where these guys were brought up — in ghettoes, where you (white Christians) put them — violence was necessary for survival. If the proverbial bread was to be put on the table, dealing drugs was sometimes the only way to do that. And if you had money in your pocket, you had better be able to defend yourself. Spend a day in the ghetto and then see how right you think your morals are.

You just don’t like rap music because you can’t relate to it and because it sometimes glorifies things you don’t agree with. The Christian faith has done a good job of making human beings feel guilty about everything they do, whether it’s sex, violence, or mere words. Sex is natural, violence is natural, and words are natural. Stop trying to suppress them.

Well believe it or not this ole hillbilly in his former life played basketball in college. During that period I learned to appreciate the fine art of rapping. House music has in there as well. I must admit that I had a liking for soul music in high school prior to that. I came from a mostly white high school, to a 50/50 college (culture shock). I was not raised racist and a lot of my friends turned out to be black. In my day though rap wasn’t as violent as today. But it still lacked for worthy content. Although listening to AC/DC wasn’t any better or Van Halen or ZZ Top. All of them had there vulgar content. That being the case I don’t buy the genre thing being any eviler than any other except the screaming head banging stuff or any song that has a violent feel. Being saved after my college days I rested back into the culture that I grew up with. I struggled with music for a long time. When God really started to work on me (after I was introduced to John MaCarthur), my music taste started to change. I wanted to listen to more Godly music. So I tried the contemporary Christian music for a while. The more I grew and learned God’s word the worse that music was. My favorite artist turned out to be Selah (love them). A lot of their stuff was renewed hymns, but for the most part I could not find music I could listen to. I had also turned against rap. Most of the so called Christian rappers were as bad if not worse than the contemporary Christian seen. My buddy introduced me to a rapper named Flame and also to Da Truth. I like to listen to Flame now. I hope he continues, and gets better. Of course I would never have a rapper in church service, but I like to listen to it and it’s something my kids like to listen to as well. I can see my 10 year old son bobbing his head and singing “Give us the truth, that’s what we need. Lying leaders been deceiving us since we were seed.” They also like Selah. As they mature I’m sure they will have the same music issues as me (at least I hope so). I am not a music expert or an expert in Theology, but if the music carries a tone that is not violent and the lyrics are God centered I’m for it. We’re all mad a little different, and each of us have our own taste. God Centered is the key. Tuff subject though, going to have to listen to Voice. Thanks

Tim,Thank you for your post on Progression! I am Curtis Allen aka Voice, the artist in question. I have enjoyed reading the posts on the question you raised related to music. Primarily because, and I may be wrong here but, most of your readers would not have a back ground in rap. I like hearing from people disassociated from rap. It helps me process what I do and cultivates gratitude for being able to proclaim the truths of God in the genre in which I do. I don’t expect everyone to like rap anymore then I like Country, but the reality is rap is here to stay. This music, love it or hate it, has become in it’s short existence the most influential artform of the day presently. Organizations across the globe have embraced rap and have contributed to it’s 8 Billion dollar a year uprise. So regardless of the preferences, Rap is a legitimate artform and more importantly is now being used by God to speak truth in a way that a lot of Christian music won’t. Today, it would seem that a lot of Christian music is just “fun for the whole family” but can lack the Holiness of God, the sinfulness of sin and a need for a savior in it’s content. Rap by it’s inception has always made it’s message forthright. What was pride and arrogance in the world has become zeal and boldness for the Christian who does rap. At least those who are doctrinally sound and are committed to humble orthodoxy. We as people with preferences have to be careful not to make our preferences God’s preferences. The church has enough problems trying to discern the thngs of God that are clearly defined in His word. I think we should walk a bit more gently when defining things categorically that are not as clear like a genre of music. If you don’t like rap, praise God that he has a genre that you do like, and hopefully it points to who he is and what he has done on the cross for us. But you must know that there is always someone who will disagree with your preferences and therefore nullifying the absolute authority with which you hold them. Unless it is a disagreement over the absolute authority of God and His word. Nothing nullifies that Amen!With Progression I sought to bring a biblical picture of the Christian Life and the trials we may face. Solely for the purpose of God’s glory and our edification. I believe my album as well as others that I have heard are glorifying to God. If I am wrong I would rather stand before Him and say that I used the “Mina” that I thought he gave me rather than saying I buried it unsure of the validity of the genre. I had an interesting conversation with Matt Redman about this (music) a few weeks ago. We did a show together and I video interviewed him afterward. If you wish to see it, you can go to www.IHearVoice.com click on media and it is the second video there. Again Tim thank you for your favorable post on my album Progression! I will continue on in this as I am sure you will in what you do. Maybe we’ll cross paths sometime and I can show you how to freestyle.In Christ Alone,Voice

Today, it would seem that a lot of Christian music is just “fun for the whole family” but can lack the Holiness of God, the sinfulness of sin and a need for a savior in it’s content.Good comment from Mr. Allen. I listen almost exclusively to what is called “Christian Rock”, but that is such a broad genre. Some groups (Sanctus Real, Audio Adrenaline, David Crowder Band, for example) write some fantastic songs about their faith, while others are nothing more than music without cussing, sex, or violence.As far as rap, I enjoy it occasionally (I’m a 20-year old white American male). But more than that, I think it’s such a fantastic opportunity for Christians to reach the unsaved world. It’s a massively popular genre among, and I needs to be reached for Christ.I think I’ll get this album.Way to go!

As has been said by most of the people so far, the idea that any form of music (minus the lyrics) can be good or evil is just not supported Biblically.

But, as for rap, I must give my musical snob opinion. I understand that this is not true for all rap, but it seems to be prevalent—And that is the ripping of REAL music for “sampling”. Write your own song, rappers. Don’t steal other songs. If you do that without permission, then that is evil. If you do it with permission, then that is still being lazy, and therefore still morally dubious.

This goes for techno, as well. If I ever hear of a “musician” whose stage name starts out with the letters “DJ”, then I immediately know that this is no musician.

I’ve always had the fantasy that if someday I am a rock star, I will incorporate into my stage act a part where I take a spin table and smash it. Just so the fans know where I stand on that issue.

I definitely believe music to be morally neutral until words, giving moral (or immoral as the case may be) leanings, are inserted. As a genre I detest rap and heavy metal (for the most part) mostly because of the sound and lyrical content. But when edifying and God glorifying words are part of it and the sound actually appeals to a certain ear I do fully believe it can be used to the glory of God. A missionary/pastor I know does part time d.j. “work” playing Christian rap in a very spiritually dark place where gang violence and suicide are, if not daily occurances, a very “normal” part of life. Perhaps, just perhaps, his efforts in this ministry might shed even a sliver of light into the heart of a listener and hope would begin to spring.I believe all forms of music *can* be used to the glory of God or at least to reveal poignant truths about ourselves, the universe and God, even those produced by **GASP** secular artists and labels! Nan

Listen to Progression. Do you realize how much Christ honoring theology is packed into one rap song? Wow.

Why not ask: Isn’t reformed Christ centered rap potentially more God glorifying than other popular genre’s because the nature of rap allows more lyrics and thus reformed rappers are winsomely dumping tons of Christ-centered doctrine into each song. Much more doctrine is squeezed into some of these rap songs than christian rock, CCM, prom-song worship which all tend to be repetative and unsubstantial.

Thanks for this post Tim

Curtis Allen is a blessing to the Body of Christ

NO: Music, (a conscious arrangement of notes, choice of genre, style etc., and delivered by a non-morally neutral human) CANNOT be neutral, just as any significant amount of speaking or writing can’t be.

As Paul said; “There are many ‘voices’ in the world and not ONE of them is without signification.”

The whole style and delivery of rap is inimical to the demeanour of the herald and glorifier of Christ, just as many other musical styles are.

James West— I agree that music can definitely create a particular tone or atmosphere. But what atmosphere are we suggesting rap music gives off every time someone hears it? Is the idea that the second we put on rap music, everyone immediately starts to have sinful thoughts? And if you believe the answer is yes (which I don’t agree with), why is this the case? Is it because of the sound of the music? No, it is because, for years, the majority of LYRICS attached to such music have been sinful.

Thanks for the post. I am extremely happy to see that the Christian rap community is getting some exposure in this more conservative community of believers. Why? Mainly because these young rappers like Voice are being used to promote the gospel to a world that will never lean their ear to.

I am a formal Christian rapper myself. I was really excited to see how young urban children have come to know Christ because it was communicated in a cultural setting that they understood. When we rapped, we were bent on getting the gospel to be apprehended. However, during those times, the church in general did not except it which made it very hard to do. Thus, I am glad that it has been exposed here.

Artists like Voice and Cross Movement and Da Truth are not purely artists like we hear on the Christian radio stations. These are missionaries to the younger world.

I think back to Paul’s work in Athens where they worshipped many god’s including the UKNOWN. Our youth are pinned to MTV listening to the garbage of 50 Cent and Eminem. When the Christians raise up to divert our youth’s ears from sin and unto to Christ, we should not become obstacles in their way, but provide them refreshing water as they run this agonizing race.

Thanks again for this.

I thought that I might respond to the question posted by James West. He asked, “What motivates Christians to employ the distinctive art forms of the world to convey the message of Christ?”

The link provided noted that musical notes are amoral but music is very moral. The writer suggested that because the music creates a certain emotion within the hearer, it is moral indeed.

There is foginess in that idea. I think that it is very subjective mainly because music stirs different emotions in different people. Musicians use sounds and rthymes that are familiar to their listeners. For example, the American infantry marching drums heard by the Iran soldier create a sudden fear and anxiety. But to the American native, it creates a sense of loyalty and security.

In other words, music (while it may stimulate a variety of emotions - some being evil) does not carry moral judgment. You place 1 million dollars in one man’s hand and immediately he is filled with greed. You place another 1 million into another man’s hand and he is excited because he can donate it to some ministry.

I think the argument posted by Way of Life is too subjective and incorrectly concluded.

To continue with you ideas, both Jesus and Paul used things from the world to assist in the communication process. From the illustration of fishers of men, fruitful trees, athletes in a race, etc.

Besides, if we must remove the world’s art forms (and tools) should we really be using this blog? Blogging has become an art to many.

Rather, with godly wisdom, we use all things to point to the Christ who saves.

I am always glad when believers step outside of their comfort zone and try things that are not sinful. Many Christians are familiar with the wickedness, and Godlessness that secular rap music, and its musicians glorify. Very few are aware of how influential Hip Hop Music is in today’s American culture and throughout the world. It affects children’s mentality, movies, tv shows. Every country I’ve been to, has a huge segment of the population obsessed with rappers and rap music. What’s the point? You may not like what the musicians say or how it sounds, but please be aware that if we ignore it we will miss out on an entire group of individuals who are dying to hear the Good News. This is why I have a great deal of respect for the Cross Movement. First of all they consider themselves missionaries. Their stated purpose is to reach out to those in the Hip-Hop Crowd. Second of all, the leader of the group, is very serious about studying the word and having his theology straight. So much so that he took time off to attend a respected seminary.I really believe that it is pointless for us to sit around and discuss the evils of rap music. I think a far more important question is how we as believers can shed light in an extremely dark place.

I think we make way too much of music in today’s church. You have people fighting over contemporary vs. traditional. You have people choosing churches based on the mode of worship. I am privileged to pastor a church that is fairly evenly mixed in age categories and I see such intense emotion over having ‘our way’. Are we going to have to incorporate rap into some worship services in the future? I sometimes would like to pitch the music aspect altogether but I know that is not the answer. I can just imagine the apostles sitting around and wondering what form of music to storm Ephesus with. We have to be careful that we aren’t just marketing the gospel. What you win them with - you win them to.

I’m all for reaching people with the truth - but I find it disturbing how many of today’s younger generation of Christians connect their personal musical tastes with true worship and spirituality. My reply is that it’s not about the music - not even a little bit. It’s about Jesus Christ and living for Him.

I put forward that once a instrument is played, the resultant music automatically becomes a moral situation.

This is an impossibility. I would like to know how or why you believe this could even be possible. There is no way to distinguish whether a song is Christian or not simply by the tune or music. I agree with Tim when he says,”I believe that music, assembled notes and chords, is morally neutral. I don’t think there is music that is inherently good and music that is inherently evil”

I’m not a fan of rap, but there are a few Rap Songs that I’ve heard that are Scriptural and that I semi-enjoy.

I have some thoughts and questions. I am not questioning the salvation, sincerity, or even intellectual knowledge of such artists. But …

1) Is rap even music? Isn’t it just one aspect of music (rhythm)? Is there a tune to this “music”? I always thought that was poetry - words set to meter. Music is melody and harmony. Isn’t this just poetry with an accentuated meter/rhythm?

2) Music (and poetry) are expressions of ideas. Ideas are not morally neutral, and the form we choose to express them in can’t be either. Is music not an expression of worship, and does not the form of music express ideas itself? The power and form must agree inorder to not send a mixed message. Are both of the excellence worthy of our King?

3) My concern with “rap” is in the language itself. A nation growing in liberty is also growing in literacy. When language is declining to slang and fragmented statements it shows the declining of the nation, and its liberty. Is this something we want to perpetuate as the standard of Christianity in our nation?

These are just questions I feel must be studied out in order to discern teh usage of this medium by Christians.

thus, at Creation all music was inherently God-glorifying, ie. good

Ah, there you make the point. I believe all music is inherently good. It is man that uses this good thing that God created to twist it into something that it shouldn’t be. There is no way to do this unless and until we take God’s good creation of music and stain it, not with the way we arrange the good creation, but with sinful, twisted lyrics. Again, it is not the music that is “bad,” in fact, as you point out, music is “Good!” The only way we can twist it into something bad is to add our own, fallen thoughts or lyrics to it. Reminds me of Romans 7…….I ask again, how do you determine, Biblically, that a song is either “good” or “evil” apart from its lyrics? I’ve seen a few argue that music is not neutral, but have yet to see any support for the argument, especially from a Biblical standpoint.

I’m really thankful for this discussion as it is helping me think through things I have thought on lately, in more of a public forum.

One thing I learned and chewed on as a result of Myers’ book (All God’s Children and Blue Suede Shoes - Crossway) is that we probably make a mistake when we assume that some form of culture isn’t making some sort of demands on us. His thesis is that popular culture, when feasted on rather than used occasionally, will almost indefinitely lead to an attitude of self-centeredness and triviality, no matter what the words are. It’s just too easy and doesn’t demand enough from us.

Try as you might, you can’t make this into a completely black and white issue. But let’s not make it a completely subjective one either. I think it would be naive for us to decide that the medium didn’t matter - only words did. But I just can’t agree with that - if Christianity is steadily presented as pop culture, there may be some adverse affects (see Christianity on TV). While I wouldn’t chastise a brother for watching TV, I might want to talk to him about it if he’s watching eight hours a day - even if it is solid Christian programming (assuming that it did exist)! How I would approach him would depend on many factors.

As far as Biblical warrant for this, does Phil. 4:8 apply here (whatever is true..)? Or does that only apply to spiritual things? Fee’s commentary leans in the direction of applying to more than spiritual things.. I’m not sure about this, but it’s interesting. But you don’t need specific biblical warrant to be wise about what you take in. No one is proposing any extrabiblical rules here (at least I’m not). After all, there’s no biblical warrant against cheeseburgers, but godly wisdom would say you probably shouldn’t eat one every day.

I know the original discussion circled around rap - I don’t know rap well enough to even have much of an opinion on this - and even if I did, it would probably be a conscience issue - ones that I would share the reasoning behind with brothers and sisters in Christ, but I would want to stop way short of applying my conclusions to their life.

Like I said - still working my thoughts out. Thanks everyone for contributing such good thoughts and thanks Tim for hosting the discussion.

JR

I fully expected to hear lots of comments about rap being a bad influence. I was very surprised. My favorite rap artist is “KJ 52”. He is the only real Christian rap artist to hold a spot on MTV’s Total Request Live which has been rated the most watched show on MTV. Watched by millions of teens weekly. He sounds very similar to Eminem; Many peopleconfuse them. I personally love the slow contemporary worship music and rap. I mentioned KJ 52 because he is the only Christian rap artist that has been able to compete with secular rap and has remained true to the Gospel. There are probably other just as good, but none have had the influenceon the secular world like KJ 52. Check out these lyrics from his song Industry:

Do you remember the time, when the purpose and the rhyme, was to see the souls affected.But now its to man, every purpose and every plan, to whom the praise is directed.We live out dream, make the crowd scream, but turn to yell at the sound man,Since where and when did we stop checking the word and begin to start checking the sound scan.Remember when shows were for souls and rhymes were for flows.Now we spend one minute to pray, if even that for each day, but spend 2 hours checkin our clothes.What happened to the passion we was having that was sparked in the begining.But we’re quick to cry, point the speck in your eye, but even quicker to justify our sinning.We’re quick to diss and raise the fist to justify the things that we do.But for every finger we point at them, just remember freind there’s 4 more pointin back at you.How and when did it all begin as ministry turned to industry.Cause did jesus need a manager, record label, ditributor, or even a boooking agency.When troubles came, did he call upon the name, or turn to a lawyer to handle it.Why do we ask God last, ignore the past, but be the first to ask our management.Cause next to him, our glory’s dim and truely pales in comparison.Why does every move we choose seem to revolve aroundWe can get our groove on, but yet worry about comin on to strong.Yet we water it down so much there aint even nothing left to chew on.Souls become sales, and sales become a salaryGive the crowd something to feel, whine about keepin it real, but dont try to keep it to reality.Yet when its all over and the mic is hung and its all said and done.It wont matter how many battles i won, but only the souls that i have won.On the other side, will my silly pride cause me to hold my head up proud .If I wont have beef with you then, tell me freind, why should I have a beef wth you now.

At the end of my life when I held that mic did I really truelly deserve it.Forget if i was phat, Forget if i was whack,

I want to hear well done my good and faithful servant.

Matt, you are right. I humbly retract my statement that music is morally neutral. I really like how Travis Seitler put it, “In other words, music is morally adaptable, but it is not morally neutral and can never be objectively good (upright, true, holy, beautiful) apart from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.”I guess I couldn’t put my finger on the real idea I was getting at but I think that Travis did that for me. I do believe that music of all kinds can show forth truth, either of the depravity of the human heart or the glory of God in Christ or purely in the beauty of musical expression (when no words are involved). I don’t mean to suggest that we should listen to or enjoy the music that merely shows us the depravity of the heart but it being an expression of the overflow of the heart can serve to remind us “there but for the grace of God go I.”Even considering the beauty of the sounds of chords, notes and voices… it all pales, I’m sure, in comparison to the glory of what the music in heaven will be like!Grace and peace,Nan

Well, it seems as though I have joined this discussion rather late, but none the less here is my two cents. I think that people have musical preferences. My personal preference may not be rap, but after listening to Curtiss music at the site he provided I must say I really like what he is doing, especially his God centered biblical lyrics. Also by clicking on the my spaces link, you will find several other young African American rappers, whose heart for God is undeniable. As Larry Norman once said, music does not all of a sudden become evil because the guitar has been attached to an amp.

Grace and Peace

{{{Candleman}}}