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Mr. Storms and Mr. Taylor, I Respectfully Disagree
- 04/06/06
- 72
The most recent issue of Christianity Today features a short article by Chuck Colson entitled “Soothing Ourselves to Death” which, if you are so inclined, you could read by clicking here. Colson contends that “much of the music being written for the church today reflects an unfortunate trend—slipping across the line from worship to entertainment. Evangelicals are in danger of amusing ourselves to death, to borrow the title of the classic Neil Postman book.” Colson singles out a particular song, “Draw Me Close to You,” which he was forced to sing repeatedly at a recent church service. This song, he says, “has zero theological content and could just as easily be sung in any nightclub.”
Here are the lyrics of the song in question:
Draw me close to you, never let me go.
I lay it all down again, to hear you say that I’m your friend.
You are my desire, no one else will do.
No one else can take your place, to feel the warmth of your embrace.
Help me find the way, bring me back to you.
You’re all I want. You’re all I’ve ever needed.
You’re all I want. Help me know you are near.
Sam Storms of Enjoying God Ministries, respectfully disagrees with Colson (click here for the article). Storms writes:
I happen to love “Draw Me Close to You”! Colson calls it a “meaningless ditty” with “zero theological content.” That’s a pretty serious charge, even if he’s using hyperbole to make a point (which I doubt that he is). Personally, I’d be thrilled if it were sung in ‘nightclubs.’ Maybe then the inebriated and self-indulgent patrons would see an unashamed and extravagant passion for Jesus that would lead them to ask, ‘Who is it that inspires such love and devotion? Clearly people courageous and committed enough to sing in a nightclub of their personal yearning for this God and their intimate relationship with him have discovered something I have yet to find.’
While Storms affirms his love for hymns, he contends that “many of them, for lack of a better way of putting it, enable the soul to ‘keep God at arm’s length.’ One can sing ‘about’ God with theological precision and yet never engage the heart.” “Singing descriptively is all well and good, even essential, but it isn’t the same as singing ‘to’ God in personal confession. In the latter we express our desire for him, our yearning for him, our thirst and longing and love and delight and joy in all that he is for us in Jesus.” He feels that the appeal of contemporary music is that it allows the Christian not only to stimulate the mind, but also to awaken the spirit, stir the affections, and intensify the expression of our hunger for God.
About the song, Storms suggests that “there isn’t a sentiment or syllable in the song that isn’t found somewhere in the Psalms as an expression of legitimate, biblical, heartfelt worship.” “The song is intentionally written to be an intercessory cry for the awareness of God’s presence, a plea that his loving embrace (spiritually speaking, of course) and the security of his affection never end. It is an expression of personal consecration and commitment. It is a declaration of the all-satisfying love of God and the soul’s delight in it.”
Justin Taylor, who drew my attention to this disagreement with his short article, agrees with Storms.
A couple of years ago I spent some time reflecting on the question of “What is Christian music?” What is it that makes one song Christian and another mainstream? What makes an artist Christian while another is mainstream? What makes one song suitable as an expression of love to God and another unsuitable? This seems to be the point of disagreement between Storms and Colson. Colson feels that “Draw Me Close To You” is inappropriate for worship while Storms disagrees.
At the time I first began to reflect on this issue the American Music Awards had just been handed out. This organization distributes awards based on genres. They give out awards for rap music, jazz, pop, heavy metal and other categories. Each of these forms its own musical genre. Though the lines dividing the genres may not be perfectly clear, there is usually little doubt as to what constitutes a jazz album versus what constitutes a blues album. But then there is the award for Christian music (or, as they call it, Contemporary Inspirational Music). This one is not awarded based on a style of music, but on lyrical content, or further, on the beliefs of the artist. Is it not strange that Christian music forms the sole exception to the rule? Is it not strange that in a system divided by genre, a hard rock Christian album can be considered in the same category as an adult contemporary album?
I have no answers except to suggest that according to the American Music Awards, a Christian album is probably one that has been distributed by a Christian label. How those labels define a Christian album or song is anyone’s guess, though I’m sure it varies greatly from company to company. I know the Gospel Music Association holds to the following definition. A Christian song is one:
- substantially based upon historically orthodox Christian truth contained in or derived from the Holy Bible
- and/or apparently prompted and informed by a Christian world view.
I began to think of songs in the mainstream that could pass as Christian songs. One of the songs that I thought of was that once-famous Bryan Adams song, “Everything I Do.” I noticed that it does not have any words in it explicit enough to tell the listener for whom it was written. The only object he refers to is “you,” with no reference to the usual “baby,” “girl,” or “lover.” Therefore, it could be a song sung from a woman to a man or a man to a woman. Fair enough. I’m sure we can all think of examples of songs that are written in such a vague fashion. As I listened to it I began to wonder what would happen if we were to sing that song in our church. Couldn’t we just direct the song towards God? Listen to these words:
Look into my heart - you will find
There’s nothin’ there to hide
Take me as I am - take my life
I would give it all - I would sacrifice
Don’t tell me it’s not worth fightin’ for
I can’t help it - there’s nothin’ I want more
You know it’s true
Everything I do - I do it for you
There’s no love - like your love
And no other - could give more love
There’s nowhere - unless you’re there
All the time - all the way
There are songs we sing in church that are little different than that. Consider Sonicflood’s “I Want To Know You,” a song you may well have sung during a worship service.
In the secret, in the quiet place
In the stillness You are there
In the secret, in the quiet hour I wait only for You
Cause, I want to know You more
I want to know You more
I want to hear Your voice
I want to know You more
I want to touch You
I want to see Your face
I want to know You more
Surely if heard outside a Christian context no one would guess that “I Want To Know You” is directed to God. Similarly, inside a Christian context I doubt if anyone would guess that “Everything I Do” is just another mainstream love song. Evidently this further complicates the matter. So again I ask, what constitutes a Christian song? Though certainly not an exhaustive list, here are some options. Perhaps a Christian song is:
- A song written by a Christian. This speaks of the songs’s authorship.
- A song written to be a Christian song. This speaks of the motive of the song’s author.
- A song sung as a Christian song. This speaks of the motives of the individuals singing the song.
- A song with explicitly or obviously Christian lyrics. This speaks of the song’s content.
Does any one of these, taken alone, provide a definition of Christian music? I don’t think so, as each of them seems to have an obvious flaw. What we find is that no song can truly be said to be Christian. The term Christian speaks of people, not of songs or t-shirts or bumper stickers. So there is a sense in which “Amazing Grace” is no more or less Christian than “Everything I Do.”
What we need to determine, then, is not whether a particular song is Christian or pagan, but whether a particular song is suitable for worshipping our God, especially in a corporate setting. A tool I have found useful in this was provided by Elmer Towns and Ed Stetzer in their book Perimeters of Light. They propose a seven-part test which will “focus on biblical principles that we should apply to our music to determine if it is Christian.” To that list I append an eighth test.
The Message Test - Does this song express the word of God? Is there a strong message and one that appeals to the new man or to the old man?
The Purpose Test - What is the purpose of this music? Was it written to lift you up or to bring you down? To make you joyful or to make you sad? Different types of song may be appropriate at different times. Obviously the very nature of music dictates that certain patterns in music have the ability to stir emotion independent of the song’s lyrical content.
The Association Test - Does the song unnecessarily identify with things, actions or people that are contrary to Scripture? An otherwise good song may have to be rejected simply because people will make inappropriate associations with it in their minds. The authors provide the example of singing “Amazing Grace” to the tune of “The Rising Sun” which is a song about drinking and gambling. As people were singing worship to the Lord they would also be thinking of the song’s original words, leading their minds to think of things that are inappropriate for a worship setting.
The Memory Test - Does the song bring back things from your past that you have left? The purpose of this test is not to guard against music that people may dislike, but to guard against music that may cause them to sin, heeding the biblical warning about not offending one’s brother. So it has less to do with taste and more to do with leading people to sin.
The Proper Emotions Test - Does the music stir our negative or lustful feelings? Amazingly enough, music does have the power, once again independently of lyric, to stir emotions to sin. If you don’t believe this, watch a room full of young people during a hard, driving rap beat, even before the words begin.
The Understanding Test - Will the listeners have a hard time understanding the message or finding the melody. Different people know and understand different types of music. People will have an easier time worshiping to a type of music that they understand. Those new believers in Papua New Guinea may have a difficult time worshiping to contemporary Christian music as they would simply not understand it. The same principle holds true with the lyrics, though I would suggest to a lesser extent, because unlike music, words are objectively true or false. If a song is strong in its theology, the people should eventually understand it, even if they do not now. With music this is not the case. Those natives will be no farther ahead if they learn to appreciate church-rock (and many would suggest, perhaps correctly, that they would actually be farther behind!).
The Music Test - This test asks if there is really “a song within the song”? Is the song singable? Does it flow from verse to verse? Does it stir the listener’s heart to join in the song? A song with beautiful words may quickly disappear from the hymn books simply because it is not singable.
So there are the seven tests suggested by the authors. Conspicuous by its absence is one I would like to add, which is:
The Excellence Test - Does the song provide God with the best music and lyrics? We should strive for excellence in all we give to God. If our giving to Him should not be half-hearted, how much less our worship?
In a previous article, which you can read here, I ran several popular songs through this test. Let’s briefly run “Draw Me Close To You” through this test. Do realize that the test is somewhat subjective. There will be differences in regards to understanding, excellence and other factors.
- The Message Test - Fail. Colson would clearly fail this song on the basis of the message and so would I. Storms and Taylor would pass it. It seems to me that the song is trite, void of meaningful content and too man-focused.
- The Purpose Test - Pass. The song was written to honor God.
- The Association Test - Pass. I don’t know that people would associate this song with much of anything.
- The Memory Test - Pass. See above.
- The Proper Emotions Test - Pass. The music is consistent with the lyric.
- The Understanding Test - Fail. The song is schmaltzy in its lyric and many people, especially men, will object to the romantic overtones.
- The Music Test - Pass. While it is not inspired music (see the next point), it is singable.
- The Excellence Test - Fail. Neither the music, nor the lyric is an expression of excellence.
I would encourage you to test the song against those criteria and decide if you feel it is appropriate for a worship service. Feel free to post a comment with your assessment.
As I wrap this up, I would like to make one further comment. Even if a song is not inappropriate, this does not necessarily mean that we ought to sing it. Most worship services (for good or for ill) allow time for only five or six songs. Should we not seek to sing excellent songs rather than marginal ones? With the massive body of musical works available to us, could we not find songs that are better than this one and sing them instead? If we focused on songs which were excellent in their music and lyrics, I would suggest that many of these discussions would never need to arise.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at 
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Comments (72)
Thanks for your willingness to take a risk and delve into the minefield of subjective opinions regarding Christian music. I appreciate that you challenge us to apply tests to our music. Ultimately, we as Christians should always ask ourselves, “While this is good, is there something else that’s better?” And, “While this is better, is there something else that’s best?”
That applies to the books we read, the movies we watch, the way we spend our time. It’s the difference between mediocre living, better living, and living in the best way possible, with the glory of God in mind.
Heh…as providence would have it, my daughter and I are doing a “group” project” on the history of christian music (my kids and I are all taking a music appreciation class together).
The middle section highlights CCMI and what happens when big business gets their fingers into things.
I believe it’s significant (although a friend of mine disagrees) that most, if not all, of the major Christian music labels are now owned by secular companies.
Charles Wesley was a prolific hymn writer (over 6,000 hymns carry his name), and I’m sure that some are less meaningful than others - but he strived for excellence in every one of them.
Nice article, Tim.
As someone who works to facilitate worship at our church, I resonate with feelings on both sides of this issue. I feel that it’s important to evaluate not only the song in it’s own respect, but also it’s role and utilization within the context of a worship service.
Take for example a stellar hymn of our faith: Holy, Holy, Holy!
While it’s majestic, lovely, meaty, and just about everything you could ask of in a song, it’s still one song. It can only express a limited number of thoughts (great and lofty ones though they are). If we sang nothing but that one hymn week in/week out, I don’t think we’d be able to say we offered music that was God-honoring worship.
I think that songs should be looked at as patches in a quilt or threads in a tapestry of worship. A song like “Draw Me Close to You” would be a horrible song to build a whole worship service around… I agree! But, if used to focus on building an aspiration in ourselves to long for and desire God’s Kingdom it can be effective.
I personally am a *huge* fan of the Sovereign Grace Ministries music… It combines meaty text and modern, musically captivating tunes so very well. But even those (balanced, theological) songs are insufficient to express everything ‘worshipful’ about our great Savior!
We need to be discerning… But we should carefully draw from those tools that best express our right, correct worship of our Sovereign Lord.
My $.02 … SDG, Brian
Bravo, bravo, bravo Tim.
Tim, this was a very well written and objective look at the subject of music in worship. I agree that if we would strive to use the best songs rather than ones which are simply mediocre, a lot of problems would be solved.
If a song leaves any confusion as to who it is about or directed towards, It obviously fails another test of ascribing proper worship to God.
Tim,Your addition of excellence to the other seven tests is, I believe, much needed. And your example of the Bryan Adam’s song is right on point with Colson’s opinion about Draw Me Close. Storms remarks about being glad if the song were sung in a nightlclub, because then the people there would hear a passion for Jesus and yearning for God…but I can’t seem to find any lyrics in the song that make any reference at all to Christ as Savior or to God in general. This song is whatever the singer makes of it.
If a song is so vague on content and meaning that a person in a “worship” service can sing it to God, and a clubber can sing it to a girl he just met at the bar, and one cowboy can even sing it to another on a mountain called Brokeback…then I would say it fails miserably as a song for real worship. I don’t think a song like this even begins to bring us to the throne of grace.
Surely we can honor the Triune God with songs that are a little more excellence-driven than ones such as Draw Me Close.
The Bryan Adams song is used in an ‘easter’ presentation somewhere, over the top of the crucifixion scene from a Jesus film.The lyrics don’t actually work all the way through. One of the last lines is ‘I’d fight for you, I’d lie for you’, which is patently inappropriate.
I have a simple test. I’ve heard it called the ‘Krishna test’ before, but you could easily call it the ‘Jimmy test’, or the ‘Janet test’.
If you can replace the name of Jesus with any other name, and the song still makes sense, you generally have, at best, a highly questionable piece.
Oh, and i should have mentioned - a friend once sang ‘Draw me close to you’ in a Kermit the frog voice. Any song that works in that context is just soo not a worship song..
Yes, we should seek to sing excellent songs rather than marginal ones. And I agree more or less that “Draw Me Close” does not fall in the category of excellence. And perhaps even “schmaltzy” is not too much of an overstatement.
But, I think I would rank it a little higher in message department. The song is clearly a prayer. True, it is lacking explicit reference to God, but the context of an explicitly Christ-centered worship service would provide the singer with the proper focus. And I think it gets its man-centeredness from the fact that it is a prayer, such as, “lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil”. It reminds me (alot) of Psalm 73:25, “there is nothing on earth that I desire besides you.” And I even hear a little TULIP in there, “never let me go…bring me back to you”.
I think your article was excellent, and that your criteria for evaluating our songs is right on, but I don’t think for myself that “Draw Me Close” has lost all its saltiness. So what do we do with the fact that there is subjectivity in this matter?
It seems to me that both Storms and Colson have some legitimate points, and as another commenter said, I can appreciate both sides of the issue. I do think it’s very important to have theologically rich lyrics, though, and I really appreciate your excellence test, Tim. It’s hard to know exactly how to express our love for God in a way that honors Him. I think an excellent guide for us should be the Psalms, and I really appreciate it whenver a song takes its lyrics almost directly from a psalm.
Does anyone have recommendations for new music that is rich in both depth of meaning and passionate expression of love for Jesus Christ?
Thanks for the thoughts on worship.
Antoher aspect that also needs to be covered is whether the song is appropriate for corporate worship as opposed to say an individuals worship time. By this I mean that the song focuses on the “corporateness” (if there is such a word) of worship. At the Ligonier Pastors Conference last October Mark Dever ( I think it was him) speaking on worship mentioned that all too many songs set the individual apart from the corporate gathering and thus the worship becomes a mass of individuals worshiping individually. He spoke of changing or writing songs sung in this context to reflect the corporate nature of worship. This entails simply changing singular words to plural, and other grammatical changes, and making the song apply to the group rather than any one individual.
Since hearing this I have really noticed that there is a difference in that all too often we get caught up in a song, that may pass all of the tests, but I then realize that I am not singing this as a body of believers but simply as an individual. So, I have been trying to focus on working towards songs sung by the body actually reflecting the body as a whole praising God. As with the other tests this does not say the song is necessarily bad but that it may not be appropriate, as written, for a gathering of believers to sing.
Again thanks for dealing with often debated topic.
Tim,
Excellent insight! I have officially sided with Colson and you on my blog: “Justin Taylor and Sam Storms vs. Chuck Colson, Tim Challies (and Me).”
Its funny, but in your critique of what makes music Christian or what should be sung to God, (in trying to honor God as I am sure you are trying to do), you don’t mention any Scripture throughout your entire article. You mention suggestions that YOU have thought of about what makes a song Christian, and you mention a seven part test, which is also not the Bible. The same mental powers that you and the authors employ to develop your arguments are used similarly (just differently) to sing/compose some of these spiritual songs, which we are encouraged to do (Col. 3:16).
While I will agree that much of the “Christian” music today may be written more for commercial appeal and economic success, I also sometimes think that individuals press hard to strain out a gnat in an effort to be orthodox. Some songs are merely cries of the heart (much like the Psalms), though they may not follow points A,B, and C in proper “theological content.” (Now, if they say something that is untrue about God, they should be dismissed out of hand).
However, when your heart is burdened, or you feel and experience the weight of your sin, and you cry out to God, are you making sure that you always say the right things, in the right way, covering all of your theological bases? I doubt it. We will “unbosom” ourselves spontaneously and sporatically over the weight of what we are experiencing in that moment.
Sometimes, to me, these types of songs can be instruments for meditation, causing me, as I am singing them, to remember the faithfulness of God in my life, His presence, His provision. The songs themselves will often cause me to meditate on Scriptural themes in my worship of God, though they may not be expressly mentioned in the lyrics.
I understand your assessment, but I disagree that some of these songs should not be included in corporate worship (But they should be accompanied by weighty theological hyms).
“Does anyone have recommendations for new music that is rich in both depth of meaning and passionate expression of love for Jesus Christ?”
Sovereign Grace has some albums that are filled with songs that are rich in meaning and Scripture. Definitely check those ones out.
quote: “While Storms affirms his love for hymns, he contends that “many of them, for lack of a better way of putting it, enable the soul to ‘keep God at arm’s length.’ One can sing ‘about’ God with theological precision and yet never engage the heart.”
—-ugh… and bleh… and pffft. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I have been blessed to be a part of a church in which my pastor is not only an excellent expositor of the precious Word of God, but the Lord has also gifted him and his wife in music. He has written beautiful music to old, old hymns that FAR from keep God at arm’s length. I have also been reading through a book of hymns compiled by Spurgeon that has touched my heart deeply in just the reading of them.
1) In answer to your question from (14) Tim, check out www.igracemusic.com. They are a group out of RUF (Reformed University Fellowship) that are putting old hymns to new music. So not necessarily “new” music, but still worth a listen. Their leader, Kevin Twit, has some excellent articles and lectures floating around the internet on the importance of hymn’s and why we should not let them be forgotten by the church.
2) The subject of what makes a worship song is so hard to pin down because in many ways it is a subjective thing. Now, obviously we can put some parameters on the discussion (like yours in this post) but a lot of what makes up a worship song depends on the overall context; the church in which the song is being sang, what the leader says before/after the song, the attitude of the worshipper, etc. What I’m trying to say is, while we can try and come up with some boundaries for what worship is, I don’t think we’ll ever come up with the absolute formula of “this is worship.” SO I also think we need to allow some room for grace when we critique our brothers and sisters in Christ on this subject.
3) I don’t think Chuck Colson has been in a nightclub in decades if he thinks “Draw Me Near To You” is even in the ballpark.
SEZ
Tim, would you say, though, that Sovereign Grace’s music passes your “Proper Emotions Test,” “Music Text,” and “Excellence Test”?
Tim,You mentioned “I Want To Know You” - when that song was first sang at my church, I honestly thought it was a “LOVE” song. To me, it was inappropriate for a church setting.
Today’s ‘Christian songs’ aren’t songs at all, to me. They are more little choruses that ‘do, might, or don’t’ have any significant scriptural bearings. I MISS the old hymns. Even those have been taken apart. Just this past Sunday, a well-known hymn was sang - to a track - and it was recognizable only at the beginning.
It’s so subjective.
Be discerning but if it draws people to love a Biblical God than it’s alright with me =0)
“While Storms affirms his love for hymns, he contends that ‘many of them, for lack of a better way of putting it, enable the soul to “keep God at arm’s length.” One can sing “about” God with theological precision and yet never engage the heart.’
“—-ugh… and bleh… and pffft. Nothing could be farther from the truth.”
Actually, I would agree with this. I do it frequently in church. I sing words full of content and theological depth and yet I’m off somewhere thinking about what’s for dinner or why the guy behind me is off-pitch. But in a song so intensely personal and individually-focused as “Draw me Close”, I would dare say that thinking about dinner might be a little more difficult. At least it would be for me. There’s something about talking about onesself that engages the mind more than talking about Beulah land or raising your Ebeneezer. Again, at least for me it does. In some sense, we only think about what we know, and we all know “us”, “me”, and “I”, whereas few people know what an Ebeneezer is or where “Beluah land” comes from. I guess you could also make the case that few people know about God’s faithfulness (Great is Thy Faithfulness) or His peace (Like a River Glorious), either, which is why they get bored singing about it. They’d rather sing a song about longing for peace and really wanting love, because they know what it’s like to desire it, but they’ve never had it. Or very infrequently.
Dluxe had an interesting point about worship songs being taken as a whole rather than individually. While I would agree in one sense, that no song will be a complete three-course meal on its own, I would disagree that that excuses certain defects (like incessant nebulous references to “you” with no content of who the “you” is). Some songs will be doctrinally lighter and more passionate and vice versa. These can compliment each other nicely in a worship service. But extracting all theology in order to just… express… is dangerous because it leaves that song standing alone in the listeners’ minds, devoid of the content that’s supposed to be driving that passion. They think of that song as a good worship song when it should only be used with a heart full of truths about God. Maybe that simply means that we need more (or better) teaching during services about worship itself… how these songs link together, how they complement each other and why we sing that way. Or maybe we should just quit using the deeply passionate but theologically vacuous songs. Music leaders must decide. The most dangerous thing would be to let things slide no matter which route you choose.
In any case, I think we often think music and lyrics are far more responsible for whether or not we worship in church than they really are. Worship is a function of my attitude toward the Savior, not my attitude towards a song. A better song should better encourage a responsive attitude toward God, but we can’t expect it to ever pick us up and carry us there. As I was mentioning before, a great deal of our response to a song will be dependent on our pre-existing level of knowledge of Him.
Jeff stated, “frequently in church. I sing words full of content and theological depth and yet I’m off somewhere thinking about what’s for dinner or why the guy behind me is off-pitch. But in a song so intensely personal and individually-focused as “Draw me Close”, I would dare say that thinking about dinner might be a little more difficult.”
It seems to me that this danger of not having one’s mind engaged is true for any song. Personally, I find that my mind wanders with many of the contemporary songs such as “Draw me Closer” more than it does with many hymns. This is not to say that my mind has never wandered while singing a hymn, it has. What that makes me think is that the problem is not the type of song, but my own attitude and focus.
As for “Draw me Closer” and songs like it, I would at least like somewhere in the song for it to mention who it is that should draw them closer. Without that, it leaves me wondering who I am really singing to.
Finally, while the Psalms express heartfelt cries to God, that doesn’t mean they are not carefully crafted. If one takes some time to do in depth study of the Psalms, one finds that they are put together carefully to express not just heartfelt cries, but also clearly communicate who God is who responds to those cries.
Jim (21), Jeff (20), you guys are right on. What we need are deeply passionate, heartfelt, true, focused-on-Christ kind of songs that help us to see God as He is revealed in Scripture and worship Him not as we think he exists, but as he actually exists in the Scriptures.
This seems to me to be exactly what the Psalms are. It seems to me that sometimes people think that you can either have a passionate song about directed towards “you,” or you can have a dead song relating the attributes of God. That is a false dichotomy. There exist many great songs that show forth the God of the Scriptures, and call us to worship Him. We just need to make sure our worship is not only in Spirit, and not only in Truth, but in Spirit and in Truth. We need songs with correct passion and correct theology.
Jesus commanded us to worship him in spirit and truth. The Psalmist encouraged us to sing (to God) a new song. I cannot find where Draw Me Close fails that test. It does, however, seem to challenge modern Western masculinity, where terms like “intimacy” are very hard to remove from their acquired sexual connotation.
I see this song Biblically in line with, for example, Psalms 42, which happens to be the inspiration for another Vineyard song, As the Deer.
You wrote: There’s something about talking about onesself that engages the mind more…
I pray I have not misunderstood you when you wrote the above statement, but I think the above quote from you is the problem.. Why are we not engaged by “doctrinal depth” and “theological Issues”??? I am longing, by the grace of God, to get my mind OFF myself and ON the deeper more precious truths of my Heavenly Father, my God to whom I reverentially fear, my Lord and Saviour. Isn’t that where preparing yourself to worship on Sunday must be a continual process through the week? The studying of His Word diligently, fervent prayer, practical holy living… all of this and more is what causes us to be broken AND encouraged in our worship on Sunday mornings as we sing those “docrinally deep hymns that lay before us the deeper theological issues” …this is what we should be moved on to , actively longing after, desperately hungering for.
The “You wrote” was for Jeff. Apologies for not being clear and again I hope I have not misunderstood.
“Does anyone have recommendations for new music that is rich in both depth of meaning and passionate expression of love for Jesus Christ?”
Todd Murray also is has many songs that are filled with Scripture and meaning.
He is in the process of recording an album featuring a collection of songs “featuring the profoundly moving lyrics of John Newton.”
You can go here to listen to some samlpe’s.
For some reason I thought of the song “You Shall Go Out With Joy” when reading this discussion. The first half of the song is literally lifted out of Isaiah 55:12 yet makes no explicit mention of God. More of an incomplete thought expanded into a song.
You shall go out with joyAnd be let forth with peaceAnd the mountains and the hillsWill break forth before youThere’ll be shouts of joyAnd all the trees of the fieldsWill clap, will clap their handsAnd all the trees of the fieldswill clap their handsThe trees of the fields will clap their handsThe trees of the fields will clap their handsWhile you go out with joy
The funny thing is that both of the “worship” songs you quoted are Vineyard songs first released in the early-to-mid- nineties.
Why are we talking about this now?
Wow, Tim, you sure did put a stick in a hornet’s nest.
Tim,
This is such a needed, relevant post. A trend I see going on today in Christian music is that artists are taking secular songs such as “In Your Eyes,” “Time after Time,” etc and singing them as though to God and it is just pretty pathetic…I guess the opposite problem of what you have been speaking of. On a positive note, Rick and I are very blessed to be part of a church that picks very beautiful songs each Sunday with substantial lyrics. We do a mix of traditional hymns and worship songs but the majority are hymns.
Some great hymns:
-“For the Beauty of the Earth”-“Praise God from Whom all Blessings Flow”-“Take My Life”-“A Mighty Fortress”-“The Church is one Foundation”
Some great Worship songs:
-Basically, anything by Caedmon’s Call is rich in beauty and in content (especially songs from “In the Company of Angels” and “She Must and Shall Go Free”) Thankfully, PCA churches use their music while other churches seem to mainly do the usual Passion or 7:22(for those who live in Atlanta:) type stuff. These latter songs can get you into a temporary high and can make you feel good but they lack any real depth to teach you about God and who He is which then makes them very self-focused. I guess Tim also mentioned that.
I think something that plays a huge part in what song is proper for worship is context.
If we were compelled to qualify every statement sung about God or directly to God with statements that could not be misunderstood about what we “mean”, we would scarcely be able to sing at all. Or, it would take hours to sing one song.
The burden of every pastor leading worship is to know something of the maturity of the people he is leading. In a biblically informed context, “Draw Me Close to You” is totally appropriate. The singer would know something of the cross-defined love of the Savior—and is asking that he experience that through the presence of the Holy Spirit.
However, among a people that are less mature, and need God’s love better defined by biblical or theological terms (i.e. using qualifying statements) there might be a better song.
Rob, you come across as being of the ECM when you say such things as “In a biblically informed context, “Draw Me Close to You” is totally appropriate. The singer would know something of the cross-defined love of the Savior—and is asking that he experience that through the presence of the Holy Spirit. However, among a people that are less mature, and need God’s love better defined by biblical or theological terms (i.e. using qualifying statements) there might be a better song.”???
Tim,
Thanks for this post. The Colson article bugged the heck out of me mostly because I agreed with him in principle even while I thought his argument was weak in a lot of areas.
As a songwriter and a linguist I constantly feel torn between producing music that is approachable and that people like and striving for musical and lyrical excellence.
Colson very unhelpfully over-simplifies the issue making it hymns or choruses. But as we all know Michael W. Smith sings the offending song, and an even worse one IMHO called Breathe, but he is also responsible for You are Holy and Great is the Lord which are high art and excellent content. Colson is an old fogey but I respect his right to feel put out by an unskilled worship leader.
Rob said:“However, among a people that are less mature, and need God’s love better defined by biblical or theological terms (i.e. using qualifying statements) there might be a better song [than Draw Me Close].”
It sounds as if you think it is okay to set different bars for different people. “This group over here is less mature in the faith, so we need to make sure the songs they sing are rich in doctrine and explicitly name the name of Christ…while that group over there is more mature in their faith, so it is perfectly fine for them to sing songs with no real reference to the God whom they are praising.”
In this thinking, you’ve got babies in the faith feeding on meat and solid food in their singing, and more mature Christians feeding on…well, not much of anything, really. Before long, those more mature individuals are going to need to go back and visit the elementary things again (as the author in Hebrews talks about). I would hazard to guess that if you took two groups, one which you thought was mature and the other not so mature, and you fed the more mature a steady dose of Draw Me Close and the like, and the less mature a steady dose of hymns and songs and spiritual songs rich in doctrine and theology…the less mature would be the more mature group over the course of time.
Why not set the bar at the same level for everyone…as high as it can possibly be set, regardless of their maturity in Christ?
This is almost the same mentality as having different types of Bibles for different levels of reading. I hope we wouldn’t want to water down the true Scripture for someone with a lower reading level…and in the same way I would hope that we wouldn’t want to have various levels of songs dependent on the maturity level of those present.
4ever4given said: “I pray I have not misunderstood you when you wrote the above statement, but I think the above quote from you is the problem.. Why are we not engaged by “doctrinal depth” and “theological Issues”??? I am longing, by the grace of God, to get my mind OFF myself and ON the deeper more precious truths of my Heavenly Father, my God to whom I reverentially fear, my Lord and Saviour.”
Two things:Thing one: I wanted to point out in my comments that we often don’t respond to doctrinal content because it means very little to us (shame on us), but that songs that talk about ourselves we understand more (that’s natural). It’s like we have mental file folders with labels like “justified”, “glorious grace”, and “tender mercies”, but we have no content in those folders… no real experience of those things to consciously think about. So when we sing we’re often singing about… well, nothing. It’s learning without a knowledge of the truth. And while this needs to be changed (by “we the people” having more direct fellowship with God where we learn about Him), it doesn’t negate the fact that songs about ourselves stir our minds to engage with what we’re saying more. That may be debateable, but I’m speaking from my experience. It’s harder for me to say “I love you, Lord” than it is to say “You are loving, Lord.” Harder for me to say, and harder to say without thinking.
Thing two: talking about ourselves in songs isn’t entirely bad. Redemption is about God, but it is also about whom He is redeeming (us). Without the knowledge of who we are (sinners, poor and needy), the Gospel is less powerful. So songs referencing ourselves are not intrinsically bad; neither is thinking about ourselves during a worship service. There must be some reflection on who God has saved if we are to fully comprehend what God is like (*very* merciful). Thinking about dinner, however, is not a good use of thinking about ourselves. :)
So… I’m not advocating a self-focused, doctrinally vacuous postition. I’m pleading for us to all go to church and worship the Lord, no matter what music or lyrics are being used. We may very well have preferences (I prefer a pretty conservative approach), but our music preferences won’t make us worship any more than having all the best books on our shelves makes us wise. A dedicated learner can glean more help from a few mediocre books than most people can glean from a thousand classics. It’s the attitude. I’ve been in a lot of services I was uncomfortable with, but my inability to worship in them was because of my judgmental heart, not the music.
Try SCC, MWS, Third Day, Rich Mullens.
Rich Mullens totally nails his worship with all the parts you mention.
Jeff wrote: “It’s the attitude.”
Though our committment is to be to the will of God in our lives, because even growth in Christ is directed by the sovereign hand of God, we cannot negate the responsiblity of putting on the “right” attitude. When my mind wonders in worship I can find myself in this mental war, pleading that the Lord will help me stay focused to worship Him with reverence and joy. I appreciate you being willing to help me understand what you meant. If I find myself stuck in a church singing repetitive, zero theological content songs, (though I admit my heart would thus sink at what I hope is not unrighteous judgement for what I perceive as lack of reverence), I do pray that I would persevere in heart to worship my Holy Lord. Perhaps it be best if I kept my mouth shut in singing such songs and bow my head to pray (not a Holier than Thou prayer, but a worshipful prayer).
Mr. Thornton… very God glorifying observation.
Are we talking corporate worship where the Word is taught, hymns are sung, prayers are raised to “A mighty bullwork is our God, OR when we are spending time alone with the Lord worshipping Him, in the secret, in the quiet place, in the stillness, He is there?
I think it makes a ton of difference.
While singing in a corporate environment, glorifying God should be our focus. When we sing alone, glorifying together with reflective is good.
Great post Tim. I have asked the same questions now for years, and am amazed at the varied answers I find on what consitutes a Christian song.
I have a question for you along the same lines. In light of this post what do you think of Christian music for the purpose of entertainment?
4ever,That’s a great attitude to have… like Paul in his letter to the Romans paraphrased… “I can’t get myself under control, mentally nor physically. help me Lord”( I do what I don’t want to do and I don’t do what I want to do, oh wretched man that I am).
Tim,
When can we read you book on starting discussion threads on the Internet? I am sure it would be a best selling book in no time.
Tim:
My good friend Rielly is a “worship pastor” at a church in Windsor and has written an article along the same line of thought as yours here.
Definitely worth comparing notes. You should see the example song he’s got.
His “heretical teenage years” make me laugh.
“In light of this post what do you think of Christian music for the purpose of entertainment?”
I have no issues with Christian music for entertainment. I think we need to draw distinctions between music for corporate worship and music for other purposes. I’d suggest that there is greater biblical mandate governing for former than the latter.
So go ahead and listen to Switchfoot.
It seems like most of the bloggers having this feud about Colson’s article ignore the merits of the rest of his article. Colson is right on when he talks about the trends in “Christian” radio. They are serving up “junk food” in many situations, and replacing all the good teaching programs with a top 40 format that seems indistinguishable from other top 40 stations—Oh yes, if you can hear the words thru the noise, then there would be some difference..
At least we can still hear John MacArthur, Alistair Begg, R.C. Sproul, and the White Horse Inn here in LA, but most of the stuff on weekends is programming hawking all kinds of questionable nutritional products and other things in infomercials.
Speaking of the White Horse Inn, here is a great article by Michael Horton on Hymnody which speaks well to the issues addressed above
http://www.modernreformation.org/mh96hymnstoo.htm
Stan Ermshar
A test you didn’t include might be a “Flesh Test”. Does it appeal to the flesh? Or, the spirit? Schmaltz, as you used the word, really goes for the deepest part of our flesh, our emotions. People must learn to separate the emotions of the flesh from the life of God in the spirit.
Or, maybe we can say the heart that they want touched is nothing more than the fleshly desire to “feel” good, warm, touched, embraced. When a song is “all about me”, then you can bet it is the flesh.
That which is born of the flesh is always flesh. That which is born of the Spirit, is Spirit.
Christians today have lost the ability to tell the difference, and that is dangerous. It is only going to get worse.
Colson was right, on this point, alteast.
Wow, 45 Posts (including this one)… that’s like a record high for a while. I guess you hit a soft spot :)
I agree with this TIm, and I am the same… I agree with this statement…Tim Says… I have no issues with Christian music for entertainment. I think we need to draw distinctions between music for corporate worship and music for other purposes. I’d suggest that there is greater biblical mandate governing for former than the latter.
Cheers
First, I thought (from the title) that you were going to disagree with Steve Taylor. Was I ever relieved! ;-)
Beyond that — to quote a wise man — Mr Challies, I have to respectfully disagree.
Some thoughts on the Towns/Stetzer/Challies tests:
1) Message - It seems that you admit to a certain subjectivity to this test by noting that Colson would fail “Draw Me Close to You” and Storms/Taylor would pass it. Doesn’t subjectivity weaken the argument on this point somewhat?
2) Purpose - Maybe I misinterpret, but don’t the primary questions of this test assume a knowledge of the writer’s heart, something that only God has?
4) Memory - The first time I read this sentence — Does the song bring back things from your past that you have left? — I thought in the context of “my first love” (I admit, we’re studying Revelation 2 on Sundays right now). Having read the rest of the paragraph and better understanding the context, I have a real problem with this one. This is largely the argument of the former druggie/guitarist on why rock-n-roll is wrong, that because he was living in sin, all activities that he engaged in during that time are wrong for everyone. I understand that one has to be careful not to cause a brother to stumble, but what about the former Buddhist who was in the symphony?
6) Understanding - More specific to your analysis of this particular song, isn’t that really subjective? And if someone objects because they do not resonate with certain aspects of God’s love (or our response), isn’t that more their fault (if it’s anyone’s)?
8) Excellence - Assuming we’re not talking about William Hung (there are limits ;-) ), isn’t this extremely subjective?
I’m not decrying the test altogether, but it seems that something as “fluid” as music is incapable of being tested by anything cut-and-dried.
Frank, I’m with you on the reaction this is getting.
Post a thread on the gospel…well, get a so so response.
Post a thread on a retail supergiant (WalMart)…get a little more response.
But, post a thread on the shallowness of much of the worship music of today…and the gloves come off!
I think this is more than a soft spot Tim has hit…I think this topic goes to the heart of what “worship” consists of in many churches, and it stings.
Keep up the good work, Tim.
Thanks for the good post, Tim.
I do like the fact that the song speaks to God’s sovereignty in asking Him to draw us close. :)
Excellent post Tim,
I don’t deny that every now and then I sing along with people and groups like SCC, MWS, Third Day, Rich Mullens etc. But sometimes, I do have issues with the lyrics. My question is if those groups say that they are singing to the glory of God, WHY DON’T THE MENTION HIM, or Jesus in their lyrics. If it is to have their music appeal to secular soceity as well as Christians, then it shouldn’t be sang in praise of God.
I also think that the test ‘Libbe’ suggested is excellent.
Keep up the good work Tim and God bless you.
“Does anyone have recommendations for new music that is rich in both depth of meaning and passionate expression of love for Jesus Christ?”
Keith Getty has created four collections called “New Irish Hymns for the Church”, volumes 1, 2, 3, and 4. They are beautiful and theological. Perhaps the most well-known of these songs is “In Christ Alone”. The most recent CD has a deeply moving hymn called “The Power of the Cross”.
I grew up in a religious tradition in which we sang hymns exclusively—and usually rather slowly—and seldom the more beautiful ones! On top of my tradition, I took a music major in one of our denominational departments of music, and believe me, I was immersed in the superiority of classical music over almost everything else, including the triteness of many hymns. (No, jazz did not appear in our curriculum. It was consdiered far too worldly.)
When God eventually transformed my life with the mystery of His saving grace—when I finally learned that “loving Jesus” was actually REAL and not just a metaphor for assenting to what I knew about Him, my reaction to church music shocked me. Don’t get me wrong; Bach, Mozart, Mendelssohn—they will always move me to tears. But I discovered that praise and worship music moved me, also.
This discovery made little sense to me until I analyzed it a bit. Here’s what I discovered. Hymns are really good at expressing the transcendence of God. As long as I didn’t really know Him but rather mentally assented to Him and even admired him from a distance, God’s transcendence was about the only thing my heart could affirm.
When I finally KNEW Him, I suddenly resonated to the fact of His immanence. Praise and worship music often express that intimate part of our relationship with the Lord Jesus.
Now I find that I need to celebrate both aspects of knowing Jesus. Truly beautiful hymns that articulate the paradoxical truths of God move me far more than they used to; they actually generate emotion in me rather than merely intellectual satisfaction. But songs that express my dependence upon and my love and thankfulness to Him for His personal revelation to me likewise move me.
My major professors would roll their eyes and throw their hands up in horror if they knew I was actually enjoying my church’s praise music…
I believe that one of the things God does for us is heal our emotions as we learn to offer ourselves to Him as living sacrifices. He makes us better able to feel and to love.
Colleen