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The Search for God and Guinness
- 06/09/10
- 69
Now that I pause to think about it, I don’t know that I’ve ever blogged about the always-contentious issue of the consumption of alcohol. If you must know, I don’t touch the stuff but that is more out of preference than conviction. I just can’t stand the taste of alcohol in general and beer in particular. But I have no moral qualms with those who drink in moderation and am actually quite pleased to see a general drift in that direction amongst evangelical Christians. It is a sign of the times, I think, that a Christian publisher would print a book about beer.
In The Search for God and Guinness author Stephen Mansfield offers “A Biography of the Beer that Changed the World.” If there is hyperbole in that subtitle, it is only slightly so. One of the world’s most successful brands of beer for almost 250 years now, Guinness has a long and dignified history as both a product and as a company. Today more than 10 million pints are consumed every day. What many people do not know is that the company has long been a force for social good and that the Guinness name has created a long line of faithful men who have served the Lord even while brewing their beer.
This biography is told from the perspective of an author who is searching for the history of a company and seeking to learn about the men who have led it. He quite often turns to the first person perspective and includes photographs of himself in various significant locations. It is, then, something of an informal biography if, indeed, it can be considered a biography at all. Given the subject matter, such a casual format works quite well.
Of all the Guinness’s Mansfield introduces in this book, it was Henry Grattan Guinness that I most enjoyed reading about. He was a grandson of Arthur Guinness, the man who founded the original brewery (and, if I have my facts straight, great-grandfather of author Os Guinness). Henry was a preacher and one of the foremost evangelists of the awakenings and revivals that occurred in the middle of the nineteenth century. His name was often mentioned alongside the likes of Moody and Spurgeon. He knew Hudson Taylor and even offered to serve with him in China before eventually founding the East London Missionary Training Institute which trained and sent missionaries overseas. He was, by all accounts, a godly man and one the Lord used greatly in his service. He is a man I would love to know more about.
Many of the other Guinness family members are likewise interesting for one reason or another. Some were politicians, some were philanthropists, many remained in the family business, growing it into a worldwide phenomenon. Arthur Guinness, the founder of the company, began the very first Sunday schools in Ireland and championed social causes such as a ban on dueling. Henry Guinness wrote a book predicting not only the end of Ottoman control of Jerusalem in 1917 but also the restoration of Israel in 1948. They were and remain, from top to bottom, a fascinating and exceptional family.
So I suppose the beer, the product for which the family has gained notoriety, is only a small part of the story. The brand continues to grow and continues to thrive; it continues to be a favorite beverage for millions. And yet, when all is said and done, there are other contributions by the Guinness family that seem sure to last far longer than the beer.
Let me be honest and say that this is not the best “biography” you are likely to read this year. While largely well-written, it still offers quite a cursory look at many different people, providing more of a snapshot of the Guinness family than a serious evaluation of any one of them or of the product they created. Nevertheless, what it does, it does quite well. It’s certainly an enjoyable read, even if not a life-changing one. Why not grab a copy this summer and enjoy it out in the sun, with or without a Guinness in-hand.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at 
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Comments (69)
Ah yes, Guinness. Beer you can sink your teeth into. Almost literally.
This grieves my soul. I find it to be quite disturbing when the consumption of intoxicating alcoholic beverages is glamorized among professing believers. I am also very concerned about your statement, “But I have no moral qualms with those who drink in moderation and am actually quite pleased to see a general drift in that direction amongst evangelical Christians.” I think that a general drift toward the consumption of intoxicating alcoholic beverages in any amount by professing Christians is a very bad thing and will have disastrous consequences and will have a very negative impact on our witness to unbelievers. It seems that we have removed Proverbs 23 from the pages of Holy Scripture.I posted an article on my blog on this issue a few weeks ago. The article can be accessed at this link.
Thanks for reviewing this book! It would have been easy to shy away because of the mere mention of beer. But when I was reading it I was reminded that this is a true story of Kingdom work: redeeming the mundane and using it to place the things of God, and God himself at the middle of the story. This is the true glory of the Guinness family, and a reminder that nothing in our lives is temporary if we consider it a conduit for the world and those around us to get a “whiff” of heaven. Don’t get me wrong, it is not the Gospel, but it sure will lead to a lot more conversations about the Gospel and the Lord of the Gospel.
Three years ago I wrote a blog article about alcohol and it has been the most widely read thing I’ve done, still getting the most hits. It’s obviously a large issue in the church at large. As I argued there, the issue isn’t the merits of the alcohol itself, but the impact on those around us. In a culture that struggles so much with alcoholism and its damaging effects, it is simply wiser for the Christian to abstain.Philippians 2:4 - Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.Romans 14:21 - It is good not to eatmeat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.You can read the rest here if you wanthttp://scottweldon.blogspot.com/2007/05/argument-against-alcohol.html
Nice post Tim, thanks. I agree that there seems to be a difference between moderation and gluttony. We should not be “given to too much wine”, as stated in prov. 23. But rather be filled with the spirit. If you have consumed enough alcohol where you can no longer meditate on the goodness of God, then You’ve had to much. Moderation…moderation
Tim your a brave soul to wade into these waters. Alcohol is perhaps one of the most contentious issues in any Christian circle.People most remember that at the time Guinness was introduced , drunkenness was a problem and water was a unfit for consumption. Guinness was introduced to combat this. It is a hearty drink , full of nutrients and does not lend itself to excessive drinking.I confess that I do enjoy a beer once in a while but when I was under the yoke of Baptist piety I did not. If you want to blame someone for my change of mind blame Luther and other reformers who I think have the best balance when dealing with alcohol. Within Evangelical reformed circles this is not an issue but around my Baptist friends they go off the deep end. It will be interesting to see how hot this thread gets .
In reading thru the few comments above, it seems clear that you’ve struck a most sensitive cord by mentioning alcohol - especially the admission that you have no moral qualms with those Christians who consume alcohol in moderation.
As one who reads your blog daily, I would very much enjoy reading a post, or series of posts, on your biblical perspective of alcohol consumption by the Christian.
Here’s hoping that you will accept this challenge. I believe many of your readers would be well-served by an articulate and biblical response to such a polemical, and oftentimes, misunderstood issue.
Many thanks for providing such an outstanding blog. I look forward to reading it each and every day.
To be helpful to the issue, for those interested, our Pastor did a study on this topic. Sermon: http://www.redeemerlynchburg.org/wp/2007/03/04/the-cup/
Please also check out the PDF: http://redeemerlynchburg.org/sermon_mp3/2007-03-04%20The%20Cup.pdf
I have such a difficult time with this one. I have no issue with a believer drinking alcohol, as long as he is not violating his conscience. My own sinful tendency is to attack my brothers & sisters for a legalistic mindset.
I think the anger and infighting over petty issues like drinking does more to harm our witness than drinking a beer. (Jn 13:35)
Steve
Southern Baptist Convention - Are you listening?
I found the book God Gave Wine by Ken Gentry most helpful.
Thanks for this post, Tim.
I think some of the commenters here would do well to reread (or read) Lewis’ chapter on Christian temperance in Mere Christianity.
I think Steve M. said it best when he sayd:
“I think the anger and infighting over petty issues like drinking does more to harm our witness than drinking a beer. (Jn 13:35)”
I believe Robin Guinness-pastor of St. Stephen’s Church (Anglican Evangelical) in Montreal- is also connected with the family.
What about Ecc 9:7 - “Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.” You got your verse. I have mine.
You cannot with a consistent hermeneutic say that the Bible is for total abstaining from alcohol. If you can, you can make the Bible say anything. This is the same approach many take with Female leaders and the acceptance of Homosexuality. Elevate one verse over all others that speak to the contrary of it. Plus, why did Christians prior to the Nineteenth Century only speak against excessive drinking of Alcohol when they could have spoken about total abstinence?
Could this movement have bad consequences? Yes. But not as much as proofing an issue with faulty exgesis..You accuse people of ripping Proverbs 23 out of their Bible but did you read the entire chapter? The context there shows he is talking about excess drinking not any type of drinking. (which in your article you only look at vs.31-35 when verses 29-30 clearly says this is for drunkard to consider which everyone says is sinful) Stop proof texting and let the whole Bible speak.
Could drinking be unwise? yes. Is it forbidden in the Bible? No.
Kudos Tim for a good, honest review.
Nice comments, Dan. Thank you.
If drinking a Diet Mt.Dew causes a weaker brother to stumble, I shouldn’t do it. I should abstain.
Scott,I completely understand and agree that alcoholism has done devastating things to many people. I also believe that for a Christian to drink to intoxication is to sin. But to say that complete abstinence from alcohol is a profitable witness to the world is where I disagree.
If that were the case, should I also stop having sex with my wife? The culture at large is sexually charged, and promiscuous. Sex outside of marriage is commonplace, and for someone to say they are saving themselves for marriage is generally met with quizzical looks and questions of “why?”.
I know you would never say that Christians should abstain form sex within marriage because of sexual problems and sins in our culture, but why do we need to abstain from drinking in moderation?
I believe that as Christians, we are empowered through God, to redeem the lost things of this world through our witness and the working of God in non-Christians to bring them back to Himself. Would it not be more beneficial for non-Christians to see us drinking responsibly? To see sex within the proper context of marriage as a tremendous blessing?
I appreciate your heart for God, and your words.
Your brother,Matt
John Piper has a great article on the issue of smoking and drinking as a Christian. Check it out here http://121youth.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/christians-cant-drink-or-smoke-…
Hi, I’m Sean and I’m an alcoholic. More importantly I am a child of the One True and Living God, purchased for His Delight and His Pleasure by the Blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, my Savior. I feel I should offer my perspective on abstaining from alcohol. This need not be a contentious issue in the body. For me the issue of Alcoholic consumption by believers is a fairly straight forward, black and white issue. The Word warns against drunkenness, the Word calls drunkenness and debauchery Sin, the Word extols the virtue of Soberness, but still Jesus turned water into wine and it was the GOOD stuff. From my understanding the language there is fairly clear and Jesus really did turn water into Wine, not grape juice. We have been extended Grace by the God of the universe to enjoy alcohol in moderation. We have been instructed that over-consumption, drunkenness, is Sin. I don’t drink alcohol, I haven’t in some time, but I do not begrudge my brother’s who can consume alcohol in a responsible matter. Their consumption of alcohol does not diminish their witness or their effectiveness in performing the kingdom work to which they have been called. However, when we pass judgement on them for breaking one of “our” rules and we pass judgement on non-believer’s who are also able to partake of alcohol in a responsible manner, we diminish our own witness. The bible forbids drunkenness, if you tend toward drunkenness, then you should abstain from alcohol, if you are able to consume alcohol and not enter into drunkenness, you have the freedom to do so.
Is alcoholism and abuse a problem in our world and in the body of Christ? Absolutely, I am living proof of that. However, having been given an abundant out pouring of Grace by God, being not only forgiven of my Sin, but rescued and transformed, I can’t help but extend grace and mercy to those around me. We should be reaching out to our brother’s who are in sin (either drunkenness or legalism) and walking along beside them, leading them towards Christ and His Grace, His Mercy, and His Salvation, we should not be passing judgement or trying to dictate terms of salvation that simply aren’t biblical. We are not to sit in judgement over our brothers.
As was stated above, Could drinking be unwise? Yes, yes it could be. Is drinking forbidden by the bible? No.
Guinness was one of my favorite beers when I did drink, and I was often amazed by the family’s willingness to serve God and spread His gospel message. Thanks for reviewing the book Tim and thanks for bringing to light the truth that God uses people of all backgrounds and variety to advance His kingdom and His story.
I would encourage everyone (at some point) to scroll all the way back up to the top of the thread and notice what started it: a book that is primarily NOT about alcohol, but about one family that lived out their faith faithfully and significantly and the Kingdom redemption it brought to the nation of Ireland (and much farther…).
This book has some significant things to say to us in the 21st Century where, for the most part, we as Christians have been characterized and utterly dismissed. In fact we’ve been characterized so that we can be dismissed!!!
This book (oddly enough with Os Guinness’ book “The Call) says volumes about how to live shrewdly in our modern, secular work where work is worshiped. When we can make work a conduit of worship, devotion, salt and light, it will open doors for the Gospel. (1 Peter 2: 12).
We’ll NEVER solve the stupid drinking issue here…but maybe we can allow Tim to give us some insight on how our vocation can be redemptive. Let’s get to that…I heartily encourage you to read the book (and Os Guinness’ The Call).
Matt, I know analogies always break down, but you might want to pick a different one here. The truth is, I don’t have sex with my wife in front of others, I don’t talk about it with others, I don’t flaunt it in their face. Those who struggle with alcohol have it shoved in their face by the world enough, it shouldn’t also happen in the church.
(Furthermore, this is a bad example because sex is necessary part of the intimacy of marriage, not to mention the mandate to be fruitful and multiply. Don’t see the necessity of alcohol anywhere in Scripture)
We should care enough about our brothers not to exercise our freedom to their detriment. See the example I use in my blog post listed earlier.
It just seems to me that this is an issue that people want to push. What is it about alcohol that is so attractive that we are not willing to put it aside for the sake of others? Having lived on a Sioux Reservation and seen the overwhelming problems alcohol causes, why even take the risk. Is it such a necessary thing that it’s worth the risks. I don’t think so.
I understand where you’re coming from. I just don’t see it as being such a major issue that I have to risk hurting a brother to imbibe. Again, it’s just wiser to abstain. I”ll leave the rest of the debate to others.
Mark Fuss:
It grieves me when professing believers condemn a gift God has given for our benefit (Psalm 104:14-15).
You conclude your article with the following paragraph:
I am filled with grief each time I hear of professing Christians supporting the consumption of beverage alcohol. To promote, encourage or advocate the consumption of intoxicating alcoholic beverages is to promote, encourage, or advocate that which God does not promote, encourage, or advocate. You are not going to be holy as He is holy with that bottle of beer in your hand.
I wonder how far you would say Jesus slipped from holiness on that infamous day in Cana.
In further response to your grief, I’ll see your link and raise you nine.
I’ve never understood why someone would voluntarily desire to live under the conditions of the curse of Isaiah 24:7-11. Seems funny.
But really, I just wanted to offer that I’ve always found Guinness to be a nice brew and it is great to learn that the family behind it was so faithful to our Lord.
Tim,
If you don’t like the taste of beer, maybe you haven’t had the right beer. Maybe your taste in beer is so sophisticated that you only like the top quality kind and don’t know it yet:)
Even Dr. Joseph Stowell (President of Cornerstone University), along with its leadership, chose to revise the school’s policy, which had forbidden the use of any alcohol by any staff member. (a policy which had been in effect for 68 years and all staff had to sign) The change went into effect this last year which no longer mandates total abstinence. Their reason? Dr. Stowell said: total abstinence is “biblically indefensible.”
Mr. Fuss
I would contend that the problem is not alcohol, it is gluttony.
I do not have a drinking problem (I may have 1 beer a day), my problem is eating. I have a difficult time with gluttony in regards to food, not alcohol. I think a plain reading of the KJV (or most other translations for that matter) show alcohol’s good and bad qualities. But I certainly believe the choice is left to the believer as to whether they imbibe (in moderation) or not.
In Christ,
Jason R. Kaiser Sr.
It may be useful to add that in Canada the consumption of alcohol by Christians is far less of an issue than in the US. Talk to Christians in the UK or Australia and you’ll see that it’s almost entirely a non-issue over there. This whole controversy is largely an American phenomenon.
Sometimes my own ignorance surprises me. I was shocked to see 27 replies already and to see the discussion generated. I guess I should have seen it coming.
I’m pretty sure you already know this, but I think you’ll need to follow up with a “why beer is okay” post. :>)
-Marshall Jones Jr.
Thanks for the review! Guinness is one my husband’s faves. This will be on it’s way shortly from Amazon for Father’s Day!
@Christine: For a moment I thought Amazon.com was selling beer now too.
Having been born in Argentina, to Ukrainian parents, Grandparents that were farmers, and country church pastors, 1 Pentecostal, 1 Baptist and personal wine makers (as most of these farmers were)…. (stop run on sentence)… At the age of 13, I came to Canada and wondered where it was that North Americans got their “Wine is evil” stance from. As in Europe and many other places, wine was always at the table, even watered down for the youger ones. The idea that wine is evil I didn’t see in the bible (still don’t) It was years later while reading Finney and his arguments that I saw it clearly. Much like the story of Joseph, where the pharaoh came along that did not know of Joseph, we don’t know the reasoning that brought the abstinence idea to the mainstream.
Not having heard or read the arguments, North American Christianity reasons by the gospel according to Welch’s. Much like the King James only posse, they will die at that altar and consider themselves Martyrs for the cause. Not ONE true Christian will abuse drink. Not ONE true Christian who has been “Transformed by the renewing of the mind” will abuse drink or think that in drink is life or make the connection that therein lies life. Due to this North American ignorance, every time that I hear a pastor, preacher, speaking of the “New wine” I hear ignorance preached. I corrected my pastor in this very thing as he had the opposite understanding, and it takes away from the Gospel. Would Jesus use common terms to the drug culture if he were to be crucified this year? What pastor in his right mind by the right spirit would liken the heavenly kingdom’s ideas in drug culture terms? Jesus did not use taboo stuff when he spoke of new wine, he made the real deal at the wedding feast, otherwise the scripture that states “Stay away from the appearance of evil” is contradicted.
The scriptures that speak of the new wine, I came to understand when my Dad was making wine. He had a new batch, just finished fermenting, and oh man, was that sweet, could drink it like Coca Cola. That same wine, once it aged, became like paint thinner, it was just about undrinkable, I cringe just thinking about it. The new wine is a celebration, a LONG AWAITED HARVEST!. HELLO? You can have grapes for a limited time, or grains in the case of Beer, but you can have Wine and or Beer for a lot longer time. New wine is celebrated because it does not remain new long, take poor care of it and you will have vinegar. How much of that stuff can you drink? Consider the primitive preservation methods of the time, consider the poor water quality and wine and or alcohol’s medicinal qualities “1Ti 5:23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.” If you at all cost make any drinking evil and live by “1Th 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.” then how do you annul 1 Tim 5:23?
Consider this. As new immigrants to Canada, My Dad for a long time abstained from Communion due to the fact that it was not wine. Just learned last week that while Polish Christians typically abstain, they use Wine at Communion. Get your mind out of the North American mind set. Do not remain ignorant of “why” and “how” wine in the bible. I have the freedom to drink, with a clear conscience. I also have the freedom, Not to drink, with the same clear conscience.
At a year end Hockey party for my kid’s team, the booze was flowing, that was “the party”. Until today, I remember so vividly how grieved I was that these people saw life in the bottle. And myself, under the control of the holy spirit, grieved by the spirit of that place, while yet under the freedom to drink, yet I refused to drink. You can make parallels to anything that can be used as substitute for the true life that is found in Christ.
Without exception, “The Call” by Os (Grandson of Arthur) is the best book I have read. His writing style in my opinion is unmatched among evangelical authors.
If you only read one book this summer…make it that one.
I appreciated the post. Thank you.
Scott,While my analogy may not be the best one, the thought behind it still stands. You did not respond to what I said about Christians being able to redeem the things of this world. God is in the process of restoring all things to their perfect condition. Clearly, being in the Kingdom that is “here, but not yet”, there are still terrible manifestations of sin in our world. That will be the case until Christ returns.
In no way am I advocating that Christians should push their freedom over their brothers and sisters. Freedom in Christ has with it a responsibility. Drinking in front of a recovering alcoholic is, in my mind, causing a brother or sister to stumble. While there is responsibility, which must be exercised fully, there is still freedom. It was Christmas Eve, and we were at dinner with my family. My family, all non-Christian, enjoys drinking, and often it gets out of control. During dinner I ordered a beer, and my uncle looked and me and said “You drink?” I told him that yes I do. But then he said something very telling, he said “But you don’t drink like we do.”
As someone who is married to a Native American, I am fully aware of statistics that plague most of the Native American community. I wonder what other “risks” someone might take without ever knowing it. Maybe seeing movie is a stumbling block, or listening to secular music, reading secular books, holding up one political party over another. The list goes on and on.
It is always interesting for me to read about the health benefits from moderate, healthy drinking. But it comes as no surprise that wine and beer have there health benefits, because as I see it, these are gifts from God. Christ himself made wine, 120 gallons from what I have read.
More than likely, we will not convince one another of our positions, and I am okay with that. But I am thankful that this is not a point to divide over. It has been great to dialogue with you. God’s blessings to you.
Matt
I LOVE this! The article and especially the conversation it has sparked. We Christians certainly have our hot potatoes, don’t we? We will come down HARD on those who smoke or drink, but we’ll completely ignore issues like gluttony (I had gastric bypass surgery because I was a FAT PASTOR!) or lust. We’ll wink internet pornography and the Old Country Buffet right under the rug, but have a pint of Guiness and you can smell the brimstone! Why can’t we just focus on pleasing and loving God? He sent His Son so that we could enjoy a loving relationship with Him. He poured out His wrath on His Son so that we would know that He loves us so very much. He gives us so much grace and only 2 commands (Matthew 22:37-40). We keep coming up with rules that we have to follow (and better yet, everyone ELSE has to follow) to try to earn God’s love. Nope. Can’t do it. He loves you and there’s nothing you can do about it. He’ll love you as much when you are drinking a beer (or eating a Krispy Kreme) as when you are reading your Bible. That’s the kind of love that changes people. Check out my sermon “Rule Number 1: There Are No Rules”http://sc.fhview.com/sc_customplayer/seriesitems/200903010503094A8CE2/11…
The sufficiency of Scripture requires that we not add to Scripture by commanding things for other believers that Scripture does not command. Therefore, no matter how wise you may feel it is for Christians to not drink, you CANNOT enforce that for others. If God wanted to call drinking a sin for all Christians everywhere, He could have done so. As it is, any individual has the responsibility to make a wise choice in this area, but NOT to require that of others.
Well, Tim, you’ve probably really waded into it this time…No doubt you’ll get plenty of responses that would be the equivalent of “cancel my subscription” if you were publishing the old fashioned way. That said I appreciate your courage to speak the truth, even when it could prove to be a little uncomfortable.The Christian’s proper approach to the question of alcoholic beverages is tricky, especially here in the United States.The Protestant church, in reaction to what was (probably rightly) perceived as the rampant social ills related to alcohol abuse in the 19th century, was at the forefront of the political fight against alcohol that culminated in prohibition in 1920. Interestingly, that was considered a “progressive” or “liberal” position at the time.It strikes me that the church’s involvement in that effort was an early example of how we’ve so often taken our eye off the ball- trying to bring about change in human behavior and human society through political and social action rather than relying on the preaching of the Gospel and on God’s providence and grace to bring about His will. Boy, I’m glad we don’t do THAT anymore.Once something makes it into our list of prohibited behaviors, it is very hard to get a new hearing. The pep band at the Christian college I attended in the late ’70s was only allowed the to play marches at basketball games- after all, it was only 30 years or so since jazz had been the devil’s music. Before rock and roll was.That legacy of conviction, discomfort, squeamishness, or whatever it is, is hard to overcome in a generation or two. I have a lot of trouble convincing myself that the Bible clearly teaches total abstinence, yet we claim to be committed to using the Bible as our only guide to faith and practice. There are members of my church who would be deeply offended if they saw me with a glass of wine in a restaurant. Many churches have promises to abstain from the use of alcoholic beverages in their church covenants, essentialling prohibiting a debateable practice through the back door. I’ve seen churches divided over efforts to remove those provisions.All of this is why I say that it’s tricky.At some point, perhaps the best we can hope for is for everyone to lighten up enough to agree that there is room for some disagreement among believers on this particular issue and use it as an opportunity to display some charity toward one another.You have contributed to that goal, and I thank you for it.
Ann, just to clarify. I did not say that “drinking” itself is a sin. i find no Biblical basis for that argument. I said that the admonitions in Scripture to consider others before ourselves, to not be a stumbling block to our brothers, etc. come in to play here. And to ignore those IS a sin, regardless of whether we’re talking about drinking or something else. You’re right, we cannot command others not to drink, but we can certainly encourage others to think seriously about the issue, consider the consequences to self and others, and like all of our actions, focus on being a blessing to others, not a hindrance.
Matt, agreed. We will not convince one another. I just pray that Christians will take a serious look at the issue and think more of others than themselves. On a hot day working in the yard, a good cold beer sounds pretty good. But is it worth it if it causes my brother to stumble or harms my testimony? I think not, and will settle for an iced tea.
It’s not about the alcohol per say, but the care for your brother thing. My freedom is not exercised in a vacuum; there are consequences, just as there are with the issue of overeating, which someone mentioned. I’m trying hard to work on that one, knowing my weight issue can be a stumbling block to others as well. Whether it’s one less piece of pizza, or skipping the beer, I want to be an encouragement to those around me, not a stumbling block.
As for the redeeming culture thing, I don’t see how my drinking a beer aids that in any way. Sorry, not trying to be flippant, I just don’t see how that helps. There are plenty of other ways in which God’s creation is used for drinking purposes that don’t have the negative “side effects.”
May God shower His grace and mercy on all of us in our imperfection as we each strive to serve Him in our best understanding. Bless you, brother.
Being an Australian I knew this issue would be blown out of proportion by my North American brothers and sisters. As Tim said, the issue of consulmption of alchoholic beverages is mostly a non-issue to Australian Christians. The insidious form of legalism whcih so engulfs the N American church is not an issue. Biblically we are free to consume or not consume. So for most of our church, it becomes a non issue to have a glass of wine together, or to have a few beers. Years ago I was on a missionary trip to India and both myself and my fellow worker were invited to a birthday party put on by a new convert. We had a great time at the wedding and our host was glad that we shared in a few beers with him. The issue beocmes real though if there were a person to whom alcohol consumption becomes a stumbling stone - then would be the time to refrain.
I dare say that the greater western sin is that of over-consumption of other ‘things’ (equaly intended for good by our Lord): food, materials, computer time, energy, oil, maybe even time itself (as in too many holidays, too much free leisutre time…). So maybe there are too many obese western Christians, who spend too long on their computers, driving (illegally fast..) gas guzzlers, livingh in Mac Mansions, and who holiday too frequently at their favourite snow field/beach resort/mountain retreat…??
Oh for the record - I love a Guiness. Oh - and my daughter and her husband own a Scottish tavern at which some of the local evangelical ministers have gathered for meetings.
Interesting topic Tim! May have to check out that book.
It still stuns me to see the uproar that remains over the consumption of a beverage. I fully understand the issues on both sides. But which is the more heinous sin: to drink a beer after dinner, or to be a self-righteous busybody? There are certainly people that should not drink because of medical or addictive issues. There are also those who may choose not to drink because of a job or ministry position. And lots of people just don’t care for the taste. But to say carte blanche that drinking is in all cases wrong strikes me as Pharisaic.
Thanks for sharing the stories Tim! And kudos for broaching a touchy subject.
I likewise cannot stand the taste of beer. But Guinness is another matter entirely! A lovely beverage, that.
Thanks for the review, Tim. Your review combined with Justin’s are enough for me to put it on my reading list.
Wonder what happened to my other comment?
Oh well.
Just wanted to say it is a very good book. I loved reading about the history of this family, and of the Church, (especially the quotes about George Whitefield), and of Ireland, Dublin, and England. Arthur Guinness had a deep faith in Christ. And his story is worth reading about.I appreciate the author’s hard work to put this book together. Good job brother Mansfield.
Nice post.
I could tell you a story of a man who was zealous for what he thought was good; I could tell you of a man who had surpassed many of his own age in fervent legalism; I could tell you of a man who burned to make himself righteous by his own deeds and earn a right standing before God. You may say: “I’ve heard this story before, that’s Paul”, but I say: I haven’t finished yet, this is my story.
It’s almost been a year since God saved me and I became a true Christian. Since the age of 10, had been attending a church for about 7 years when I “got serious” about the Bible. This developed into a fervent legalism, I was a Pharisee of Pharisees, a Hebrew of Hebrews. If anyone had reason for confidence in the flesh, I had more. I was the Pharisee described in Luke 18:9-14; I trusted in myself that I was righteous and treated others with contempt. This was perhaps best seen in an incident much similar to this one, but with regards to tatoos.
I also remember a time, shortly before I was saved, meeting with a Pastor of my former church, whom I told about my self control that I exercised in front of my peers when they got drunk, I restrained myself to one drink. He said to me: “I still think that we need to live up to a higher standard of holiness”, summing up his previous statements about total abstinence from alcohol. I still remember the feeling of yuckiness, dirtiness, that I felt when he said that, that once again I wasn’t good enough, and all that did in me was drive me to try harder. The result was bondage; it restricted my heart.
The reason I say this, is that I know what it is like to be where you are Mark Fuss. I feel so much pain for you, if only you could see that in fact, you cannot see. Ultimately, self-righteousness reveals not understanding the Gospel message of reconciliation. Ultimately, you cannot be faithful to the Word of God and defend total abstinence from alcohol.
My heart bleeds for those like you Mark Fuss; the morality inflicted by people like you only restrains people’s hearts, but the Gospel truly frees. I remember, in the ensuing months after meeting with that Pastor, that God revealed Himself to me, at the time He had appointed, and knocked me down and gave me a new heart. I would say that you need to remember, that your pride is the worst sin of all. I am qualified to say this to you, because my pride exceeds yours. Remember that “the saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the sinners, of whom I am the foremost.”“God made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him, we might become the righteousness of God.”
Jesus began to preach where John left of, saying: “Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” Mark Fuss, you need to turn from your self righteousness towards the freedom of the true Gospel, and as long as you trust in yourself for a right standing before God, you will be put to shame on judgement day. It is not too late to repent, as it is written:
“Anyone who trusts in Him will not be put to shame.”
“the saying if trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.”
Sorry for the typo.
“the saying is…”
Not my day today.
well, I guess you are directing that comment at Jesus as well, since he both made and drank wine. Let me know if he responds.
In response to some who have posted links to reasons for not partaking in wine (or other alcoholic beverages) here is a well reasoned Biblical argument for the consumption of wine (and strong drink) with thanksgiving (and the author gives wise warnings):”Wine to Gladden the Heart of man”:http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/03/20/wine-gladden-heart/
Again - for those who don’t drink any alcoholic beverage - do so unto the Lord with freedom. You are not to be condemned by those who do. For those who do enjoy a glass of red, a single malt whisky, a bourbon and coke, a guiness or beer - do so unto the Lord with thanksgiving and freedom. You are not to be condemned by those who would rather not. (But be wise amongst those who really do have a real problem wrt stumbling with drunkeness..)
Funny, this is the “arguement” that came to my mind one day when pondering this topic. I’ve never heard anyone else verbalize it so I was happily surprised to see it on this blog thread.
Almost 250 years? They celebrated their 250th anniversary last year! I went to the celebration at my local pub. I don’t drink either, but my parents do, and my family and I are very Irish.