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Why John Piper Should Not Have Invited Rick Warren
- 04/05/10
- 75
So John Piper has asked Rick Warren to speak at this year’s Desiring God National Conference, Think: The Life of the Mind and the Love of God. You may have heard about this, either through buzz in the blogosphere or even from Piper himself in his recent Ask Pastor John session. I have known this for some time now as Warren told me himself when I visited Saddleback last September. So I have had a long time to reflect on it. And having done so, I am persuaded that it is not a good idea.
Before I explain myself, let me provide a bit of background on my relationship with Rick Warren and John Piper. I think people who read this site sometimes imagine that I am more connected with the big-name preachers or authors than is really the case. It’s only fair to point out that I do not have much of a personal relationship with either man. I have met both of them but have spent meaningful time with each of them just once, which means I know them best through their public ministries. I have read three books by Warren and perhaps a dozen by Piper. I have seen both of them preach and have met some of the people who minister alongside them. Perhaps mostly significantly, I have been a member of churches heavily influenced by each of them; the last church I attended was very much built around the Saddleback model while Grace Fellowship Church is very much in debt to Piper. Thus I have seen their churches, their ministries and the effects of their ministries on others.
So much for background. But before I continue, let me offer one more word. John Piper inviting Rick Warren to speak at the conference is not that big of a deal. It matters, to be sure, but not enough to get too riled up. It’s important that we put it in its proper context. Piper did not invite Robert Schuller or the Dalai Lama, someone who outright denies the gospel. Warren professes faith in Christ and professes an evangelical understanding of that faith. Furthermore, this conference is Piper’s gig and he is free to invite whomever he wants (or whomever he is permitted within whatever structure there is inside of Desiring God). His house, his rules.
Having said all of this, I still believe it would have been best for Piper not to invite Warren. In inviting Warren, Piper is implicitly downplaying the reasons that many Reformed Christians have expressed concern about Warren and his ministry and have separated themselves from both. Yet these are good reasons based around sound biblical concerns. Let me look at this under two headings.
Honoring Scripture
Warren has proven repeatedly that he does not and will not honor the Bible. He preaches from the Bible, he knows vast amounts of Scripture and I’m sure he loves studying the Bible. But his ministry makes clear that he does not truly honor it in the way he uses it. I hardly even know where to begin here. Turn to any of Warren’s books and you will see that this is the case. Time and time again he has misused and abused the Bible. Years ago I read The Purpose Driven Life day-by-day and blogged my way through each chapter. I looked up each and every Bible reference. And in almost every chapter I found that Warren had used Scripture poorly, stretching its meaning, choosing translations that, more than being true to the text, furthered his intended meaning. This is the way he always has used Scripture and the way he continues to today. Turn to just about any review of his books and you’ll find multitudes of examples.
John Piper, on the other hand, has a long history of ministry in which he seeks to extend the utmost care to the Bible. He preaches verse-by-verse, carefully expositing the Word of God, seeking to be absolutely faithful to the text. And few preachers have done a better job of this over a long pulpit ministry.
The contrast between these two preaching styles and, even more so, these two ways of using the Bible, could not be more stark. John Piper honors the Bible, Rick Warren very often does not. What frustrates me is that I know Warren knows better! For some reason he does not seem offended by what he must know is his own misuse of the Bible.
This is not to say that with his invitation Piper has endorsed such a way of understanding and using the Bible. And yet by inviting Warren he seems to implicitly downplay its significance. This differs, at least in my mind, from inviting a Presbyterian to a Baptist conference. In that case, the Baptist may say, “I disagree with your theology in this, but I understand that you have been faithful to Scripture, at least in the way you understand it, in coming to this conclusion.” We can affirm that a person can come to wrong conclusions even while honoring the Bible. But I don’t think we can say this about Rick Warren. He abuses the Bible and does so habitually.
I am persuaded that this matters. I can’t think of another speaker Piper has invited to one of his conferences who uses and misuses the Bible the way Warren does. This is not about Warren being a 5-point Calvinist—I think there ought to be room for non-Reformed speakers at such conferences. But that is a whole different topic. My concern here is the way he treats Scripture.
All Things to All Men
Second only to my concern about Rick Warren’s consistent history of misusing Scripture is this: he seemingly seeks to be all things to all men. As you might perceive, I am not using this phrase in a complimentary way. I want to be careful here, but what I have seen from Warren is not so much that he will claim to be both A and B, but that he will claim to be A and Not A. There is a strange kind of subjectivism in his allegiances and in his beliefs.
In the Ask Pastor John video, Piper mentioned a list of questions he asked Rick Warren—questions about what he believes and why. He said that he asked Warren about these things just two hours before filming Ask Pastor John. Yet the conference invitation was extended all the way back in the fall of 2009. This was not Piper asking questions to determine whether Warren was qualified to speak at the conference, but Piper asking questions to defend his decision. And Warren always knows exactly what to say. I truly believe this is one of the means by which he has become so popular and gained such a large platform—he always knows what to say to please a particular audience.
Piper is understandably excited about Warren’s regard for Jonathan Edwards. Yet we cannot deny that his ministry looks nothing like a ministry influenced by Edwards. Can you even imagine what Edwards would say about The Purpose Driven Life or an Easter church service featuring the Jonas Brothers? A and not A.
Here is what I’ve seen and what so many critics have pointed out: Warren will adapt what he says to fit his crowd; he will also adapt how he says it. The message always fits the audience. Now in one sense this is well and good—I will speak differently to a group of high school kids than I will to a meeting of the entire church. But ultimately the message will be the same and what I believe will be the same. Yet when it comes to Warren, there appears to be a great deal of malleability. He will be one thing for one audience and another thing for another audience. He will move seamlessly back and forth. He will be A and then Not A as the situation demands. Here now he has an opportunity to be Calvinistic and to reach out to that Reformed crowd that has been skeptical if not downright scornful about his ministry. And I’ve got no doubt that he’ll play his part. He will probably speak well and blow away the audience. But two weeks later he may be at another conference singing a whole new tune.
Again, this conflicts so plainly with John Piper’s ministry—Piper who preaches the same message in the same way no matter where he goes or who he faces. He may adapt his style to the listener, but never will he adapt his message. Always he will preach Christ and him crucified. He will be unpopular if necessary, but always he will be faithful. And again, in inviting Warren he implies that being all things to all men—Reformed to the Reformed, Emergent to the Emerging—is not an issue of great importance.
Been There, Done That
Allow me one personal note. As I said at the outset, I have spent at least four years in a Warren church and four years in a Piper-influenced church. I’ve spoken to hundreds of people who have been involved in each kind of church. And when it comes to Warren’s Purpose Driven model, I’ve been there, done that and have the scars to prove it. I’ve seen how his kind of ministry plays out. I’ve read the book Transitioning which describes the (sometimes brutal) process of making an established church a Purpose Driven church. I’ve seen what it does, I’ve seen how it treats people, I’ve seen how it hurts them and stunts their growth. I’ve received innumerable e-mails from people who have experienced the same thing. And I know that John Piper couldn’t possibly be part of such a church, nor would he ever tell his flock to be part of one.
While I don’t doubt that Rick Warren loves the church and loves the Lord, neither do I doubt that he does harm to the people and to the Name he loves so much. To invite him to this conference is to downplay all of the harm brought about by his unbiblical and pragmatic style of ministry.
Conclusion
Before I wrap up I want to affirm my respect for John Piper. There are few men whose ministry I value more than his and few preachers I respect more. None of this is meant to make him out to be a bad person or one who is acting out of ill motives. But I believe he has shown a lapse of discernment in inviting Rick Warren to his conference and onto his platform. And that’s the thing about platforms—once built, they need to be nurtured, preserved and protected. John Piper must know that he is massively influential; this endorsement of Rick Warren ultimately strengthens Warren’s platform and weakens his own.
I am glad that through his conferences John Piper is not trying to build the young, restless, Reformed as much as he’s seeking to just preach truth. That is a good and noble goal. It is a goal that allows him to look outside of a safe little group of approved speakers. At the same time, Rick Warren is way outside that group and for good reason. Warren’s critics have not always been fair to him and yet neither have they been without justifiable and significant concerns. His ministry is in so many ways antithetical to Piper’s. It surprises me and maybe disappoints me a little bit that he has been invited to share that platform.
At yet let’s heed Piper’s warning not to fall into an error of secondary separation. There is no need for us to separate from Piper over such a decision. We have plenty of latitude to disagree with him; let’s do so with respect for him and for his long and faithful history of ministry to the church. The sky is not falling, the world will go on.

I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at
Releasing on April 1, The Next
Comments (75)
Wow, you hit the “All Things to All Men” nail right on the head. A fantastic observation about Warren’s “adaptability” to an audience. And your noting of the timing of Piper’s invitation and his subsequent “interview” of Warren was excellent. But you are irenic as always. You set a great example, Tim.
I don’t think you can easily come to the conclusion that Warren does not honor scripture just because his exegesis is not as tight. I have to agree that some of his exegesis in PDL was either absent or done poorly. But I am not convinced that means he is dishonoring scripture. He does see scripture as an authority or else he would just say what the Bible says really doesn’t matter, we just think what we like about what we are here for.
There is a difference between poor exegesis and dishonoring scripture. I see where you are coming from but I think your conclusion on that part of it is a bit too strong.
Tim,
Thanks for stating your concerns about this issue so diplomatically and carefully.
Inviting Rick Warren to share the platform at a National Conference does imply that there is enough agreement with his teachings and the way he does ministry to justify such an invitation.
You have skilfully shown the stark contrast between the two men’s approach to the Bible and ministry. Warren’s approach is highly pragmatic, and his message seems to be all about actualizing the individual and pursuing a social gospel, a gospel of doing good works. Piper on the other hand, tried to be theologically driven, and among other things, has strongly emphasized justification by faith alone in his teachings.
I agree with you that John Piper, whose ministry I truly respect, and whom I personally feel affection for, has made an error of judgment with this invitation. And as you point out there will be repercussions that are not good for Piper’s ministry but will give tacit endorsement to Warren’s.
The fact that Warren can give orthodox answers to questions of concern to conservative Evangelicals doesn’t seem to be the most important criteria for considering such an invitation. The fact that he has huge influence and reads lots of theology isn’t as important as what kind of influence is he having and what exactly is the message of discipleship that he is promoting. I think that if Piper shares some of the concerns that many people have about Warren, and apparently he does, he could have invited him to a one-on-one discussion— but to invite him to occupy the platform at his national conference implies approval of Warren’s overall ministry.
I only hope that indeed Warren would be influenced and challenged and corrected by being at this conference. And I hope that Warren is not the “Trojan Horse” that some think.
Blessings,
Alex
Thanks for the insightful comments - I personally feel this is a big deal, though. I was hurt, horribly hurt, by a church start-up based on Warren’s model. I saw the most mature, most wonderful Christians sadly leave the group one by one, alienated and so hurt, and eventually I too was asked to leave, simply because I asked the pastor to show me how some of the Purpose-Driven methods were scriptural. That was six years ago, and to this day I struggle with going to church. One whiff of PD, and I leave. I cannot face it again. I cannot judge Rick Warren’s soul, only God can do that. But I can, and do, harshly judge the false doctrine of his Purpose Driven model.
Thank you Tim for this well-stated response!I particularly appreciate that you took the time to make tyour third point about the abuse and devasation that often follows in the wake of churches that “transition” to a Purpose Driven Church model.I know it will be very hard for many people to understand this who have never gone through it, or who have only experienced church life under the PDC model, but it needed to be drawn out into the public discourse in a rational and non-condemning way. So, thank you!
It’s a big deal. Piper is allowing a man whose agenda connects to Tony Blair’s Interfaith Foundation. Warren is an advisor on this council. 2 Cor. 6:14
It seems there is much compromising going on in regards to fellowship with certain individuals. Has there been repentance? Has the gospel been preached?
This would include the mentorship of Mark Driscoll. Who is mentoring whom?
Disappointing. It seems the message of Planting has become a priority— ‘consider WHO builds the house…
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this post. I am one who has suffered…and lost my church in 2004…at the hands of the Warren lovers and their ilk…seeker sensitives/emergents/New Agers, etc. Your brief segment on how these people have caused so much grief and hurt in the church almost made me cry…it almost seems that you were there when my husband, who was a deacon in our nondenominational church, voiced his concerns to the elders and was told, “If you don’t like what’s going on here, you can leave,” a sentence that we later realized appears to be part of the script for a program for “growing” the church. You have explained Warren in such a way that I may print this out and save it to use when I try to explain him to folks who won’t try to understand. “Deceived on Purpose,” by Warren Smith also does an excellent job. Thank you so very much. You can’t know what this has done for me.
I recently left a church that is moving toward a PD model of what it means to be a church.
In the midst of dealing with the issues that were a result of the poor, if not twisted, brutal, leadership, I turned to Piper: studying the Word with his help appears to have helped me see the beauty of Christ once again.
Now Piper is inviting one whose model of church leadership encourages these elders to abuse their leadership by ultimately trying to deceive us?
I just don’t understand what Piper is thinking: Would he invite a person to his table who had recently threatened to hurt his daughter and who had not shown any of remorse, repentance or understanding of the pain and fear he caused, especially when he says opposing truths in different contexts? Would he frighten his daughter in this way for the sake of some higher agenda?
I fear that Piper’s influence will ultimately give the leaders of the church I left, and similar churches, a vindication that they can continue to build THEIR church using whatever methods are best suited to achieve THEIR ends.
Because Piper did not indicate in the video that he understands that RW has been the influence for a great deal of pain, nor that he has a way to deal with the hurt laid at RW’s feet, at this point in time, I do NOT have any confidence that what Piper is doing is a good thing.
My only hope is that between now and October God will work in a wonderfully mightily way and cause RW and Piper to deal fully with this PD nonesense and to transform RW to being the kind of person whose Yays are not Nays.
OK, but last year’s Douglas Wilson invite was equally as slippery. Had people been more clued into some of his fringe thinking (though on the opposite end of the spectrum), and not just known him as “the guy from Collision” Piper would have had to deal with this two years in a row.
One Baptist is inviting another Baptist to his conference. I don’t see anything wrong with that. They may differ on a few things but isn’t liberty of conscience one of the Baptist things? Every man for himself free to interpret the Bible? Every congregation free to do its own thing?
Thanks for this helpful and very courageous post. To question the wisdom of John Piper is a risky blog proposition. The best of men are still men at best! I’m a pastor and i’ve told my own people that very thing.
Caleb
I read through much of Warren’s book “The Purpose of Christmas.” Here are the areas/issues that concerned me:
1. On Pg. 56 Pastor Warren actually writes, “In His brilliant book Jesus of Nazareth, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI writes….” No wonder our current President was comfortable asking Warren to pray at his address. I don’t think Jesus (see Matthew 23) would ever call a Pharisee HIS HOLINESS unless He were mocking them. That statement was so shocking i had to read it 5x over. I still hope that i am missing something here…
2. Warren continues to use various translations and paraphrases to support his statements. Much has been written on that matter already.
3. I did not care for the “give Jesus a TRY” language of the book (note pp 69, 73-74, and 80.)
4. I felt the book was too Me-orientated and Man-centered. What can God for you? (sorry UPS)
5. When he name dropped “John Stott” (pg 53-54) it left a bad taste in my mouth. Just because a famous man of God says you’re great doesn’t discount the criticism and concerns of your critics. The same is true with Driscoll with regards to John Piper.Esp. seeing many of Rick’s critics are well respected men of God too.
Bottom line: deal with their concerns and defend your positions with Scripture.
6. Everyone please READ Evangelism Divided by Iain H Murray. In some ways, Rick Warren is the new Billy Graham (the older Graham).
7. That is not to say Warren is a heretic. It is to say I would not give Warren a preaching platform at our churches Bible conference (I’m the lead pastor). John Piper and his elders must make these decisions on behalf of DGM and BBC. Let’s continue to pray for them!
Thanks Tim! You put it in perspective! You obviously have a ton of Independent Fundamental Baptists who are separatists to the core, indoctrinated with secondary-separation their entire lives, following your blog. They put this debate on the level of Christ’s resurrection and the virgin birth! I’m glad Piper is reaching out to these men in an attempt to show them what Christian love and charity should look like. Unfortunately, many of them are staying true to form in turning this into some rabid nonsensical debate. Boring. Overblown. Ridiculous. Uneducated.
Well said Tim!
I too share some of the same scars. Rick Warren and those who model him sound great when they talk of their beliefs and the authority of scripture, but in the end the bible is merely a reference tool like a book of quotes rather than that which drives their preaching.
thanks!
Oh dear.
I think that Mr. Piper should have weighed the pros and cons of having Rick Warren preach there more carefully. Let’s remember that even the wisest can be led astray at times, though I hardly hope that any disaster will fall upon dear Mr. Piper for making an unwise choice.
My best friend when through a Purpose Driven takeover at a PCA church and ended up tranferring to an OPC church. He was a deacon and tried to confront the unbiblical changes that were happening, but was chastized and asked to leave if he didn’t agree with the vision. Before he left his beloved home church had: cancelled all adult education, including Sunday School, exegetical Bible study, and prayer meetings, and condensed all of these down to small group house churches. The majority of house churches were led by lay men, who were completely untrained with no seminary background whatsoever. Previous Sunday Schools were primarily led by the Teaching Elders, or men who were in formal training for ministry.Members who are struggling financially, spiritually, physically, or emotionally can try to get an appointment with the CEO (Senior Pastor) but it is highly discouraged: work it out in your home group (where the men are untrained) or suck it up and serve someone else to get over your struggle.Since he has left, that church has actually been playing songs by AC/DC, and TSO and other secular metal bands in the corporate worship service. And the pastor has started a sermon series on the sheep, the wolves, and the pharisees (where the wolves are people in the church that expect the church to feed them…!!!! and the pharisees are the people in the church who think that church should be first for the sheep, and then for the lost.)
So, this past Easter weekend, I attended my sister’s church which used to be a fundy Baptist church with an arminian flavor, which I expected, but was also open to , because I figured I still get the basic gospel. Instead, there was no talk of sin, or the cross, or repentence, just Jesus can make your life better if you give him a try. They asked for visitors to raise their hands, and proceeded to pass out copies of 50-pg excerpts of The Purpose Driven life. I gave it back and said no thank you. My sister asked me, “What did you think of the service?” I had to be kind, but did not lie. She said, I’ve been really surprised lately at how our church has been changing. It didn’t used to be like this ….
Brother,Your critique is valid. But I’m always skittish about blog-conversations that leave the principals out. Has anyone asked J.P or R.W. for a response?
I am thankful.
I am thankful that John Piper is humble enough to realize he can learn something from Rick Warren.
I am thankful Rick Warren is humble enough to realize he can learn something from John Piper.
I am thankful each of these men are willing to share their knowledge with people like me in forums such as a Desiring God National Conference.
I am thankful that Tim Challies is not the one who decides who should speak at the Desiring God National Conference.
Tim, I would tend to agree with you on Warrens teachings, and would much rather listen to John Piper, but yet .”Every Kingdom devided against itself is brought to desolation…” We all need to work together as Christ followers to achieve the ultimate goal, which is to usher lost souls into Heaven. John Piper has made a wise decision inviting Warren to speak.
I’m not as familiar with Warren. I know people that have read his books, and I go to a baptist church that has a minister that admires and styles himself after him. The only thing I find frustrating is the propensity of Warren (and now my pastor) to jump between versions of scripture. One moment he’ll be in the NIV, then the KJV/NKJV, NLV, then a paraphrase like the message. I understand there are some good quality modern translations, but I just have trouble dealing with changing versions like that. Although it does have the side effect of me looking a lot more verses up for myself, I’m not sure that is an intended side effect.
I come from a school of thought that you should use whatever you decide is best at home, and that a pastor or church should choose a version to preach from and stick to it for consistency of message. I’ve not yet been able to convince people at my church about this, but I haven’t given up on it either.
Finally a comment with some unbiased observation. I totally agree with your outlook. I was beginning to think I was reading the transcripts from the salem witch hunts.It is very important that we base our beliefs on the word of God, as well as allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us. When we start to look at the minister rather than the message we create problems. Remember it all boils down to the word of God, Not the word of John piper, John macarthur or Rick Warren.
Tim,
Thanks for these reflections.
It is quite obvious that you have echoed the thoughts of many. It is deeply troubling to see John Piper inviting Rick Warren.
And yes it is A BIG deal. The scripture reminds us that leaders are in a special position. If Piper has invited Warren, and Warren leads people astray, then it is obvious to me that responsibility is shared.
We must be careful who we invite, not only to our houses or television sets, but to our churches or conferences! The Lord surely holds us responsible.
We must remember both men in our prayers.
Thanks for all the comments, everyone. I think this is a good time to close down comments. At the least, we’re getting close to the magic number of 100 when I shut them down automatically.
Tim,Tim ,Tim ,Tim, TIM!!!!How can you say with one breath this is not a big deal ….and then say in the next breath that RW does not and will not honor the Bible and that he misuses and abuses the Word of the Living God?! If he does not honor God’s word ;he does not honor God and shouldn’t be invited to take a home group let alone preach to thousands!!Where’s your head at Tim, my brother?
Agreed.