“it allows those here to go to the mike and ask Dr. Sproul anything.”

Ask him what he thinks about the Steelers’ chances of repeating as Superbowl champions.

Someone from Texas did mention that he would pray for R.C. since he was a Steeler’s fan.

It is about 11:30am and we just came out of the Ministry Partner’s session. It was a great time of Q&A. Dr. Sproul was able to address about 12-14 questions, which is good for a 45 minute session. I will list a few of them here.

Mel (John) Duncan introduced R.C., and R.C. said that he and John both have perfect faces for radio.

Here were some of the questions:

Q - What is the status of R.C.’s commentary on the Wesminster Confession?A - RC has completed a/b 1600 pages of the manuscript, and it now needs editing, etc., and should hopefully be out in a/b a year.

Q - What factors should be considered when determing whether or not to stay a a seeker-friendly church?A - We have a short time in this world for sanctification for us and for our families. If we are staying in a place where the gospel is not center, however noble our efforts to change things, then a hard decision probably needs to be made to make the most of our time here on earth.

Q - Why does the church exert so little influence in the culture today (where is the power in the church)?A - RC acknowledged the overall impotency of the church today, and stated that the power for the church lies in the GOSPEL…go R.C.! We don’t need revival, we need life! The problem today is that the church is content to remain babes, when we should feeding now on meat and solid food instead of milk. We are biblically illiterate (the church is in a state of infancy). Sproul used the analogy of how much cultural influence could 50 million infants and toddlers have on society.

Q - Can church success be measured?A - This is difficult to try to do. There’s nothing wrong with growth…BUT…if we begin to measure success by the world’s standards and making decisions based on what people want, it is the same as ASKING SHEEP WHERE THEY WANT TO GO. The Pastor is the feed the sheepfirst and foremost, not cater to unbelievers.

Dr. Sproul also covered topics such as:-Sabbatarianism-Social Gospel-Time period of creation-Homosexuality-Christian Education

I am not asking this question to be controversial; but wasn’t R.C. Sproul, Jr., having legal problems? Has that issue with tax i.d.s been worked out satisfactorily with the higher church hierarchy?

Brian, I am soooooooo jealous!Keep up the good reporting.

Mitch - This is one of the first threads on Tim’s blog in which I’ve viewed the comments… Typically, I read the articles and move on. So, I’m not sure how to take your comments…

I agree totally with your point re: the local church and resisting the temptation to gossip. Nonetheless, Carrie’s question strikes me as totally valid. As men being presented at this conference as ‘elders’ in faith, their conduct (and the ministry’s tacet approval of it) is certainly an issue.

That said, this is not the correct forum to find those answers. And I would urge Carrie to contact Ligoniers directly and ask some pointed questions.

In Christ, Brian

Mitch,

You said concerning Sproul Jr.’s affairs, “It is controversial. It is not edifying to the Body of Christ to couch that question in the midst of an event that is for the edification and teaching of the Body.” His very presence broaches this subject. I have seen no one addressing it. And after reading the charges laid out by the Presbytery, these are serious. Is it right to just seem to sweep this whole thing under the rug, and do conferences as if nothing had happened? And Dr. Sproul’s sin became “universal” when he was defrocked. We, if expected to sit under his teaching, have the right to know of the status of this issue.

Brian - thanks. You mentioned that Dr.Sproul also commented on the Sabbath issue…if you see this comment, can you tell us what he said? Thanks

Did RC Jr. or Sr. mention the charges that have been leveled at RC Jr? Was it even addressed?

Thanks,

G

DLUXE: the point is not whether the question was valid. The point is in the timing and in this case the medium. The question is “valid” by those who are concerned, in that local presbytery/church/body. The timing here is in the middle of a blog by Brian over a conference that is meant to edify that body. How does asking that question edify anyone in the middle of this medium?Paige Duncan: I was not aware that Dr. Sproul Jr was at the conference and going to speak. After looking at what Brian wrote, I see that he is there and part of the presenters. I have to, here, interject some hypothetical propositions. This is not to either support or denigrate anyone involved but to merely point to a biblical example of operation.

1: We can’t really use the Pharisee’s bringing the adultress to Jesus and His subsequent answers here in the case of Dr Sproul Jr, because he is a brother and there are specifically spelled out procedures for that. 2: Dr Sproul Jr has or is under going a similar type of investigation by his Presbytery. We should let those who are above him deal with his “sin/transgression” in the correct way (Matthew 18).3: If I was in charge of putting the conference on and was aware of the controversy surrounding a presenter, I would contact those who are involved and establish that that presenter and his speaking would not compromise the integrity of the conference. 4: However many or all of the above approaches were taken, what we can operate on is the admonition in the Book by James to control our tongue. Unless I was specifically involved in the ongoing issue, I must obey and not wag my tongue over things that I only have a shadow of information about.

If you disagree, you have the freedom to do so. If I sound harsh, I profusely apologize, for I do not intend to offend. But I must speak up for the appropriatness and application of Biblical operation in light of the dearth of information about what is happening.To reiterate: the question is a “valid” question for those involved. The timing is the issue here. If Dr. Sproul Jr is still presenting at the conference and a person believes that that is inappropriate, they need to address the conference coordinator with those concerns. To blog on the web with a shadow of the information is gossip for we are not directly involved.

MHK

Question:

What is the thinking about Joni Eareckson Tada speaking? My guess would be that Sproul would not permit a woman to teach the Scriptures to men. (Just a guess) Would she have not been teaching Scripture had she been able to attend the Ligonier Conference? Or would she only have spoken to women? Has she spoken at prior Ligonier Conferences? It’s a question of curiousity, not polemics. I’m not criticizing ANYone or any camp with the question. Just curious.

Comment- to WFSEUBE

I don’t know who is writing hostile and nasty Sproul Jr. pieces, so I can’t speak to that directly. But when you speculate about criticism of Jr. being from anti-Calvinists, I can tell you that a good number of Calvinists in Orlando were quite critical of Jr. ‘s stances when I was at RTS. I heard strong theological arguments against Jr. positions from RTS students, professor and from laity at St. Paul’s PCA (where I worshipped). Jr. was the editor of Tabletalk then (maybe still is) and provoked strong Calvinist reaction against himsef.

It is about 10:30pm, and Pam and I have just returned to our hotel room. It was a good day. The music was incredible (hymns that focused on the church led by the Westminster Brass and one monstrosity of a pipe organ), the fellowship refreshing (we hooked up with some friends from our former church, Chuck and Julie Gilliam along with Chuck’s brother and his wife, Joe and Sabrina), and wonderful preaching focusing on the church as the bride of Christ.

Since I cannot type like Tim did at the Shepherd’s Conference, I will just give some brief overviews of the different speakers’ messages.

R.C. Jr. - Biblical Foundations of an Intimate Marriage-The serpent’s goal is to pervert marriage-Redefining the family will likely be the defining characteristic of our age. This is how we will be remembered in history.-Inside the church: Our problem isn’t the baptizing of evil, but taking the good and perverting it.-We have taken the same fundamental premise as the world…”It’s all about US.”

3 Principles for you and your wife’s sanctification:-The sanctification of your wife is your life, your calling-Your sanctification and hers are ONE in the same-You need to pray for her…ask God for help

Ken Jones - Nature & Foundation of an Intimate Marriage-When we talk about an intimate marriage, it is a redundancy…a marriage by its very defination IS intimate-We either properly or improperly reflect Christ in our marriage-We are empowered in our marriage relationship to perform our duties & roles by the Holy Spirit who is at work in us conforming us to the image of Christ.—We can’t do it ourselves, we must embrace the grace of God to accomplish this(intimate marriage)—Need to pray to be empowered by the Holy Spirit—He empowers us through His word, can’t do it with a closed Bible-A proper sense of marriage is Christo-centric

Sproul Sr. - Challenges to an Intimate Marriage-Ever since the fall there is a certain shame to nakedness-As soon as they sinned, Adam & Eve knew they were naked and hid…instant link between sin and shame-God could have made them continue living in shame for the rest of their lives, but instead had mercy & covered them

We long for a place where we can once again be naked & NOTashamed…God has provided that in MARRIAGE.

God loves you, NOT because He knows you, but in spite of knowing you…He knows you INTIMATELY. That is how our marriage should be.

The chief business of marriage is knowing each other & being naked before each other & unashamed without fear.

More to follow on MacArthur & Sproul, Sr.’s messages at the evening session…

As has already been stated, this is not the appropriate place to discuss the Sproul Jr. situation. Valid questions have been asked, but this is just the wrong time. Let’s let Brian report on the conference, and confine the discussion to that.

Hi Brian,

What did RC say about Sabbatarianism in his opening Q&A? He endorsed Sunday Sabbatarianism in his 1996 book “Now, That’s a Good Question!” so I am curious if his views on this topic have shifted.

Thanks,

Greg

7PMOkay, here we go…the main event, the formal kickoff of the Ligonier Conference on the church as the Bride of Christ.

The first thing we saw was a video montage of pictures of Joni as we listened to her talk about how much she missed being at the conference. She is truly an incredible testimony to the goodness and grace of God in the midst of a debilitating physical limitation. I really wanted to hear her this year, as she was unable to come last year due to pneumonia. On the audio Joni said she wanted to try again next year if it was alright with Sproul.

MacArthur was up first with the task of discussing the topic of Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church. It was amazing! If you get no other audios from this conference, I urge you to order this one (you can get the individual audios from specific messages).

Some highlights:Dr. MacArthur took us on a journey through the history of some of the reformers and pre-reformers (specifically John Hus) to show how serious the issue of declaring that Christ is the head of the church can be and is even today.-the truth of Christ as head is NOT a benign issue-to uphold the headship of the church was a battle-when a truth becomes embattled, the richness of that truth so often comes out that would otherwise have not become known-MacArthur is convinced there are people who Christ is Lord of them personally…but where He is NOT Lord of the church in which they sit.

He then made harsh distinctions about some of the movements that subvert the headship of Christ. They included:-seeker churches: Piper calls it evangelical slapstick-Emergent church - Quoted Brian MacLaren as saying that clarity is overrated

-You can strip the role of the Lord as head of the church in a number of ways.-Current evangelicalism attacks the headship of Christ. -Christ rules through His revealed truth-There is growing disdain for faithful mediators of Christ’s headship. Who are the mediators? Expositors of Scripture.

BEST QUOTE: “I can understand this movement better if it is not called the church.”

SECOND BEST QUOTE: “What kind of idiot comes up with his own ideas about the church?”

Enjoying the comments from Ligonier, although they make me struggle with keeping the 10th commandment!

It is about 10:40am on Friday morning, and the first session with Ligon Duncan and Ken Jones has just ended. Everything kicked off this morning with Sproul Sr., referring to the Duncan brothers as the “rap” brothers, and he asked them to both come up and do some rapping…which they did!!!

IT WAS HILARIOUS! And not only that, but they were actually quite good.

Ligon did an incredible job of discussing the subject of the invisible church…more on this later today when I have the time.

Ken Jones, likewise, did a great job of addressing the truth of the body being One, but with many Parts. More on this one later as well.

I think Ligon and John should consider some sort of rap album to show the diversity of gifts within the body of Christ.

My in-laws are at this conference. Two of the most incredible people I know. Besides their son, of whom I am honored to be married to. So THANK YOU for live-blogging this. It makes me ALMOST feel like I am there with them.

“What kind of idiot comes up with his own ideas about the church?”

Oh, that was productive. (sigh)

After ULTRA finished their performance, Ligon took the podium to discuss the invisible church (Ultra is what John and Ligon called their little rap group).

An amateur recap of Ligon’s message:-The doctrine of the church is often neglected in the evangelical church today.-It is important to understand the different aspects between the visible and invisible church.-This doctrine protects the sovereignty of the work of the Spirit.

Visible Church - All those throughout the world who profess faith in the Lord Jesus ChristInvisible Church - All God’s chosen people in ALL ages across the world…past, present, and future.

-Luther & Calvin set out this doctrine.-The Roman Catholic church denied this doctrine-Today, even some reformed theologians take issue with this doctrine.

-1 John 2:18-19…John says those who went out from the church were never really a part of the church, even though they were members of the church. They were of the visible, but NOT the invisible church.-John reminds us here that mere association & profession is NOT a guarantee of the work of the Holy Spirit.—Example: Ishmael, the first child circumcised under the OT covenant, but he was NOT part of the promise.—-There are those who affiliate themselves w/church but who do not have a work of the Holy Spirit within them.**This is NOT to denigrate the visible church**

-The invisible church consists of those who are before the throne right now…and we are the church along with them.-We have union with those who have already died in Christ (The Church’s One Foundation).

Examples of the invisible church:-Triumphant church-Eschatological church-Present scattered church-Persecuted church (China)

-Our being finite: we cannot see the work of the Spirit with human eyes-Our falleness: the visible church today is compromised because of our sin

-The church can never do its work apart from the Spirit.-It is the sovereign Holy Spirit that unites sinners through faith.

“A good shepherd is not known by how well he pets the sheep” - MacArthur quote of the day

John MacArthur - The Pastor and His Flock

12 step programs abound for just about everything…1 Tim. 4:6-16 is a 12-step program for recovering Pastors

A Noble Minister of Jesus Christ - 1. Warns his people of error v.6 2. Is a serious student of Scripture3. Avoids the influence of unholy teachings4. Is disciplined in personal godliness5. Is comitted to hard work6. Teaches with authority7. Is a model of spiritual virtue8. Maintains a thoroughly biblical ministry9. Uses his spiritual gift10. Is zealous regarding his work11. Is manifestly growing (teachable)12. Perseveres in his ministry

Success? Yes! v. 16, “you will ensure salvation for yourself and those who hear you.”

Ligon Duncan - The Church’s Mission

DO WE OBEY AND UNDERSTAND THE GREAT COMMISSION?

There is a DIRECT connection between the worship of Christ and the mission of the church

Three things within the Great Commission1. Claim of Christ - ALL authority has been given to Me- His worthiness of worshipPiper - “Missions is NOT the ultimate goal of the church…worship is. Missions exists because worship doesn’t.”-Worship impells us to missions

2. To Make Disciples-It is NOT “go build up the membership rolls”-It is NOT “go get the people to pray a prayer”-It is NOT “get the people to assent to the gospel”-IT IS “Go make disciples”

3. Comfort of the Promise-“I am with you always, even until the the end of the age”-All day, every day, every step of the way-“you cannot do what I am asking you to do, But I can through you”—-“I will build My church”

Brian et al,

Hello everybody this is Mel “the non rapping” Duncan and I just want to thank each of you for keeping everybody up to date on Ligonier’s 19th Annual National Conference. It has indeed been a tremendous event and your excellent summaries have been a great blessing.

If any of y’all are in the Sanctuary tomorrow morning I’d love to meeet you in person before we breakdown for the week.

If not see you at “Together for the Gospel” in April.

Mel DuncanDirector of Church RelationsLigonier Ministries

Thanks so much for your commentary, Brian! ;^)

I want to apologize to Sinclair Ferguson for not entering very much information in my previous post on his fist sermon on the message of the church. It wasn’t that I didn’t have any notes…I had three pages…it was just that, quite honestly, I couldn’t figure out what to include and what not to because there was so much information. I will enter more on that message a little later.

Here are some of my notes from his message this morning on the subject of the church’s worship:

Revelation 4 - gives a pictoral representation of believers of each Lord’s Day when we are in the presence of our God.

-Few things are more important for the church than worship—By the Spirit of God we participate in the same thing as those do who are before the throne.

Two things…1. The focus of the church’s worship is a. the triune God. He is the epicenter of worshipWHY? Because HE ISv.8 “who was and is and is to come”BY WHOM?-The whole family of God, His people.

b. The focus is also on the Son, Rev. 5:1-6-He is the One who makes our worship possible

-The Father is seated—The Son gives us access—-The Spirit brings us into the presence *We have access to the Father, by Christ, through the Spirit* - Eph. 2:18

NOTE: the work of the Trinity-In every activity the Father, Son and Spirit are fully activeTHE…-Father planned our salvation-Son died for our salvation-Spirit brings our salvation to us

2. Character(goal) of our worship-to admire—When we who are spiritually deaf have our ears unplugged—When we who are spiritually blind have our eyes opened—-we will cast our crowns before Him and worship and adore Him

NOTE: ALL worship flows from Christ’s leadership & through Christ’s example…His mediation. Christ is the worship leader in heaven…the four living creature in Revelation are deputy worship leaders

NOTE: the dichotomy between worship & preaching is so unbiblical. The ministry of the word IS worship.

NOTE: one of the mistakes that keeps us in the ghetto is when we turn worship services into evangelism services