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March For Women's Lives
- 04/28/04
- 14
Bunnie Diehl has a great collection of photographs from the March For Women’s Lives held this past weekend (scroll down a couple of screens).
Isn’t feminism a wonderful thing? Feminism has given women the right to destroy the lives of their children and it seems society is now consumed with the bloodlust of abortion. Sickening!
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Comments (14)
No one is “consumed with the bloodlust of abortion.” No pro-choice person likes abortion or wants there to be more abortions. What many do believe, however, is that having the option is better than not.
Yes, feminism is a wonderful thing. Feminism is why my mother can vote, my girlfriend can go to college, and my daughter, should I ever have one, can choose to be an engineer, a homemaker, or a senator.
Sorry. I don’t buy that at all. Abortion is a billion dollar industry and there are people who are in it for the money. Maybe not all pro-abortioners like abortion, but there are plenty who do. They are getting rich off it. Carol Everett ran a successful abortion clinic in Dallas. She wrote about the huge financial engine that drives the pro-abortion industry in her book.
Carol Everett is not exactly the most non-partisan source of unbiased information.
Look, I’m in software for the money, because I want to eat and people want software; I also like writing it. Other people are doctors for the money, because they want to eat and people want medical care; many of them also like caring for people. There’s nothing per se wrong with profiting from providing a service that people want.
At Planned Parenthood’s website, you’ll find not only information on abortion, but information on prenatal care and nutrition and articles promoting adoption. Do you really believe this is all a ruse?
The vast majority of the 800,000 people at that march do not profit from abortion, haven’t had an abortion, and probably never will. Most wouldn’t enjoy it if they did, because it’s a difficult, unpleasant decision. But they also don’t want the government telling them what they can do with their own bodies.
I don’t expect to convince you to change anyone’s position, and you shouldn’t expect to change mine. But Tim seems like a reasonable guy, and it really surprised me to hear him to use inflammatory language.
(BTW Alan, this photo with your cat is extremely cute.)
“But they also don’t want the government telling them what they can do with their own bodies.”
I don’t think it is what they are doing to their own bodies that is the issue here. It is what they are doing to the bodies of their unborn children.
I did not mean to be inflamatory, though I suppose to some extent it came out that way. I guess there are not many issues I take a stronger stand on than this one!
I have never heard of Carol Everett before but I’ll have to look into her. I can’t deny that both sides of the abortion debate draw some really quacks, so it would not surprise me if she was not a bastion of integrity. But as I said, I know nothing about her…
Tim writes: It is what they are doing to the bodies of their unborn children.
Of course I knew you would say this, and you probably knew I knew you would say this. And you probably know what my response is. (Actually, I’m with Peter Singer on this and most similar questions.)
While I appreciate that you disagree vehemently with these protestors, I would hope that you can acknowledge that they believe they are fighting for an essential freedom. Likewise, I acknowledge that you believe they are promoting a great evil. As for Everett—well, the page I linked to confirms my biases, but that doesn’t mean I take it without a grain of salt.
Tim, I like your blog, even if I agree with almost nothing on it.
Jesse, isn’t saying that you’re with Peter Singer on anything sort of impossible?
Or do you honestly agree with him?
Another thing: you say that people who are pro-‘choice’ do not like abortion. Why not? If it’s not killing a baby, why in God’s name would anyone want fewer abortions? Why would it matter? Just curious.
Also, how do you know that the vast majority of the women at the march have never had or never will have an abortion?
If, say, 30 million women have had abortions since 1973 (I’m lowballing it), one wonders whether the 800K (unsure of the total number but that seems about right) there were marching, in fact, to justify their previous abortions.
I certainly saw a lot of signs saying “Ask me about my abortion” or “This is what an abortionist looks like,” etc.
Obviously there’s no data to suggest anything either eway — but you can’t say the majority of women there won’t or didn’t have abortions.
A view on your second question there, Bunnie.
Why don’t “pro-choicers” like abortion? Why don’t they want to see it used as blithely as they use birth control?
Why don’t “anti-cancer activists” like chemotherapy? Why don’t they advocate a little radiation treatment for every funny-looking mole?
I understand that this analogy is overblown and perhaps overly provocative, but it does have some merit. Few people choose to have elective medical procedures, especially those with … unpleasant … side effects — which are rightfully associated with the most common forms of abortion today (medical and surgical). It’s an expensive and, in the case of abortion, highly upsetting experience. After all, there is no social stigma attached to undergoing chemotherapy, but the same cannot be said for a pregnancy terminated at 8 weeks.
That’s why you hear Planned Parenthood advocate birth control, abstinence, and other forms of *prevention* of unplanned pregnancies. Same reason your doctor tells you to quit smoking and wear sunscreen.
No one wants to go through that.
Bunnie, is it possible for something to be not murder, and also not be sunshine and strawberries? Possibly not in your worldview, but certainly in mine. Many pro-choicers, myself included, believe that abortion is a bad thing—just not as bad as having a child against your will (rape), dying in labor, or having a child when you just aren’t ready. If your moral universe admits nuance, a fetus can be less than a full-fledged person and more than a non-entity.
And yes, I actually agree with Singer. His ethical framework is consistent and just. This guy is serious, too: He donates 20% of his yearly income to groups such as Oxfam.
Jesse - And that is exactly where your worldview and mine (as well as Bunnie’s I presume) will diverge. I believe that a fetus is not less than a full-fledged person. Thus a fetus is FAR more than a non-entity. When a fetus is viewd as being a full-fledged person you have to believe that the fetus has the same rights to life as any of us do.
Tim, I agree with your summary of the divergence, though I suspect there’s more to it than that, having to do with sexual attitudes, etc. There’s also the deeper question of what constitutes a person.
Yes, I’m sure there is more to it than that. The biggest difference would likely be in a relativistic vs absolute worldview.
tim: relativistic worldview? what do you mean by that??
relativity is a branch of physics, where observerations are linked in with the observer’s frame of reference. Say two stars go supernova. Two guys travelling at different velocities might argue about which one blew up first (counter-intuitive, but true).
this is as opposed to classical galilean physics, where an observers frame of reference has no bearing on what he observes. No matter how fast his telescope is moving away from mine, we would agree about the time of both supernovae; and certainly there would be no discrepency about which one went first, or if they went simultaneously.
do the worldviews you mention have anything to do with this?
A relative worldview is the opposite of a absolute worldview. One holds that there are absolute standards of morality while the other holds that morality is relative to the situation at hand.
I have never attended a Fetus Shower, but I have celebrated many happy times with friends welcoming their expected babies.
Psalm 139 states quite plainly that God lovingly made each and every one of us. And with Him there are no accidents. Then, Jesus died on the cross so that we could have our sins forgiven and have a relationship with The Father. (John 3:16&17)
Sin & Selfishness vs. God’s Peace and GRACE
Easy Choice!