- RSS FeedSubscribe
- « Previous PostA La Carte (04/26 - 04/28)
- Next Post »T4G - Session One - Mark Dever
T4G - Introduction
- 04/26/06
- 27
We are packed in to the Grand Ballroom of the Galt House Hotel, a huge hotel in the downtown core of Louisville, Kentucky. We're shoulder to shoulder, knee to knee. The room is packed from back to front with men who have come to hear about the gospel. The room is filled to overflowing and the organizers had to turn away hundreds more. What a beautiful thing it is to be together for the gospel.
We are in a great ballroom. Huge chandeliers hang overhead. A lighting truss surrounds a stage that is flanked by two large screens which alternate between footage of the current speaker and shots of the audience. Immediately behind the pulpit--a small, open pulpit--is a three-part Together for the Gospel banner. A sea of chairs, stretching to the furthest reaches of the room, face the stage.
To begin the conference, Mark Dever gave away gift certificates to the man who came furthest to attend the conference (he was from India), the man who had been a pastor for the longest (50 years) and the pastor who had been the main preacher at his church the longest (45 years).
Dever explained that these men are not together on what to wear, on what pulpit to use or on what songs to sing or on what music to play. Mark suggested that if any Sovereign Grace guys are present, they be given access to the aisle seat so they can move around a little bit. They are not together on applause or on "amen's." The Sovereign Grace folk will surely be vocal in letting you know their agreement, Baptists will mumble a polite "amen," whereas Presbyterians believe that silence is consent. Neither are they together on how to introduce the speakers. Mark encouraged us to make a game of this and during the week keep track of all things that these men are not together on. "Together for the ___________ [fill in the blank]." We are free to keep track of all the things they are not together on. If you are at the conference this week, feel free to post a comment with other things they are not together about.
Mark concluded his introduction with a brief explanation of the purpose of this conference. He explained that the keynote speakers--Sproul, MacArthur and Piper--were merely bait used to bring together all of these pastors--thousands of them--so they could meet together here, to form relationships with people from their local area. They are together to celebrate the centrality of the gospel and to take that focus to their church homes.
After mark left the stage, Bob Kauflin led us in a couple of hymns. This led to C.J. Mahaney taking the stage to provide a brief monologue, to explain the choice of the books we have been given thus far (The Reformed Pastor by Richard Baxter which was published 350 years ago this month and The Deliberate Church by Mark Dever and Paul Alexander along with one of three 9Marks booklets.) and to introduce his friend Mark Dever.
If you happen to be at the conference and would like to say "hello," I am sitting immediately to the right of the sound booth. Feel free to drop by!
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I write books and blogs for fun while doing web design and consulting for a living. I worship and serve at 
Published in 2008, this book
This is a guide that calls men,
This review of the bestselling
New to the site? You can get
Comments (27)
Tim,
You only mention men. My best friend, who is a Bible Study Fellowship teaching leader is attending the conference. Do you see any women at all? See is preparing to teach Romans next year.
Angie
Angie,
There are no women at the conference. Because it is intended for pastors and was guaranteed to sell out, they restricted attendance to men. There are some women there supporting various ministries, but none as attenders.
Tim,
My friend registered early and received admission. She flew out this morning to attend. Keep an eye out for her. She did receive a letter from T4G saying there were around 60 women registered.
And, thanks for the notes from the first session.
angie
Tim, you should include some of the friendly banter that is making this conference such a joy to be a part of... such as "Mark, is it or is it not true that you carried a briefcase in high school" (Mahaney to Dever).
SEZ
Tim,
Thanks for taking the time to do a blog from the conference. As I mentioned today, I thank God your blog is so consistently discerning, biblically faithful, humble, and practical. You have a gift for this blogging stuff.
Thanks as well, for sharing your thoughts at the blogging get together today. I especially appreciated your comment that we need to lead people to better resources, that ultimately lead them to a local church. Amen.
Tim,
Not being there with you guys this week is killing me. Brother my heart is moved and I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit as I read your comments and notes about the first night of the conference. Keep up the good work and God bless your gift of blogging.
I am curioius how much "togetherness" is emphasized at the conference in which all the speakers are white, Reformed, complementarian men and most all of the attenders fit the same demographic. It is troubling to me the message that is sent to the larger body of Christ with a slogan "Together for the Gospel" if less than 100 women are represented at a conference sold out to well over 2000 people. What are we really together on? The impression I have of this conference is that reformed, white, conservative complementarian men are putting aside their secondary differences on spiritual gifts, eschatology, and baptism to spend a few days hearing their favorite preachers. I am discouraged by the short-sightedness and apparent lack of togetherness that this conference projects to the larger church, particulalry to African-American and Latino Christians and women.
brian - they are together on TRUTH, .
The conference is for pastors, thus the limited number of women on hand.
There certainly was no filtering process to handpick the background of those attending the conference.
If you're not there, how do you have the impression that most there are white?
Now if you want to talk about the Church doing more to begin Biblical churches in all sorts of neighborhoods, I'm with you. But this conference has great potential for good.
I personally don't see the purpose of the conference, as well.
All the speakers are white. It follows that all the attendees (or the vast majority) probably are as well.
Why are pastors getting together to talk about the core of the gospel? They already know the Gospel.
And, there WAS a filtering process for the conference. I am friends with one of the 60 women who registered for the conference, and after the conference was closed to women, she was asked to give up her spot over email - more than once I believe, by the administrators of the conference.
God's kingdom is so much wider than those represented at this conference. His margins include Arminians, women, and so called ethnic "minorities". Why make the narrow gate even narrower?
Still unsure:
'make the narrow gate even narrower'? As if having the conference restricts the offer of salvation only to those in attendance?
Pastors talk about the gospel because talking about the gospel is the means God has appointed for His people to become more Christlike. Since pastors desire to become more Christlike, they talk about him.
As to the broader questions about what kind of unity this conference represents, those are fair questions. I have two big questions related to this issue: (1)Is it really not worth gathering unless we mix races? The unfortunate fact of where we are right now is that the American Church (writ large, i.e. that portion of the Church Universal in the USA) is by and large not integrated.
(2) How do we expect to integrate the church in America? It will happen as we focus our attention on Jesus Christ. As we know him and the truth of his gospel, that he died for our sins and was raised from the dead, the church in America will be transformed. Indeed, pastors are charged to build the church with nothing aside from the gospel -- all the building materials they use will be tested with fire.
So I say, let the white reformed pastors meet and talk about Jesus and his death. It will not immediately solve all the problems in the American Church, but God will be glorified.
I doubt there was a checkmark on the registration that indicated race or ethnicity. If minorities didn't register (and I have seen zero indication that that is true, other than an assumption from someone who appears to have no insight about the conference's organization and/or its policies), that's not the organization's fault. As for women, as Tim indicated, the conference is intended for pastors and elder types - those who are to be male, per Scripture. There are many other conferences out there that are not specifically geared towards pastors - the Desiring God conference, for example - that are wide open to anyone.
"Why are pastors getting together to talk about the core of the gospel? They already know the Gospel."
I'd like to think that those pastors already know the gospel as well. But the problem is not that they don't know the gospel, but rather the gospel is not being faithfully preached and taught this day and age.
I, being an Asian female, would very much like to have the privilege of attending the conference. But much more I would rather have churches send their pastors to attend, that they'd be refreshed and encouraged to be faithful in preaching the gospel and living the gospel. I think God's flock would benefit greatly from that.
Wow. What an insult to these Godly men who put this together for the glorification of God, and the building up of the body of Christ, and an insult to God Himself, and the body of Christ. I am not sure about the other men leading this conference, but I know at least Piper has preached much about racial harmony in the church, and I would assume the others have as well. I hope these are the last we here of such unwarranted statements, so we can enjoy the great job Tim is doing bringing this edifying event to many who could not be there.
I know at least Piper has preached much about racial harmony in the church,
Not only does he preach about it, he lives it. His church is in the middle of downtown Minneapolis, at least in part so they can reach a multicultural congregation.
This is a good place to follow the Pyromaniac Rule 4.
"I personally don't see the purpose of the conference, as well."
Comments like this are why there needs to be a conference with the central theme being the Gospel and only the Gospel:
"Why are pastors getting together to talk about the core of the gospel? They already know the Gospel."
If upwards of 3000 Pastors and Elders were all proclaiming the unadulterated word of God week in and week out here in America, I do believe the church would be changing the culture instead of reflecting it...
Many attending the conference probably think they DO preach the gospel...and they may walk away from this week seeing the truth in a whole new light!
May God use this week as a springboard to a reformation of hearts within churches across the country as these leaders return to their flocks and display unity in the only true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I don't think anyone was ascibing intention on the part of the sponsors or attendees. Certainly no one at the conference would turn away a "minority" who wanted to register. But, I think they may have a point. The word together does imply some form of diversity being overcome for a greater purpose. We know what the purpose is. Someone who is there - what kind of diversity (gender, ethnic, age, and otherwise) is present at the conference? It's not an accusation, just a question.
What message does it send to those outside AND inside the church to exclude (and pretty much un-invite those who got in early!) women from a conference that at first hearing sounds like it's all about the Gospel that's available to all? I can't imagine how those women felt when they were contacted and asked to give up their spot. Is there something about the conference is so specific to men in ministry that women in ministry shouldn't receive an equally warm welcome? Again, perhaps someone who's there could address this.
Making these points doesn't deny that the people at the conference are godly or mean that no good can come from it. It does not mean that everyone there is a misogynist or racist. And challenging the church to a higher standard certainly does not insult our Lord! To suggest these things is unfair. Whether your gut reaction is to challenge or to defend, let's do everything we can to make this a productive conversation! Let's assume the best of each other, avoid defensivness, and converse with grace and love.
I challenge us all to think honestly about the issues of diversity that have been brought up. I also challenge us to not remain content with the racial divisions that exist in the Body of Christ in America. The solution is not to shrug our shoulders, say that's just the way things are, and keep on doing things the way we're confortable doing things.
Recently I heard someone say that if you ask a white believer what the biggest problem is in this country, they'll say abortion, but that if you ask a believer that isn't white, they'll say racism. I say this not to suggest that white people are racists, but simply to highly the point that perhaps the issue of togetherness is a bigger problem than most of us realize.
It is helpful to hear the clarification that the intention of TG4G is to gather together specifically pastors. I for one am thrilled that several hardline cessationists are speaking together with some brothers that hold different positions, particularly given the SBC's hardline stance against sending out any missionaries that practice speaking in tongues in public or private. This is a small step towards unity in a very splintered American Church in which each denomination claims a monopoly on "the Truth." Perhaps in two years there will be more emphasis on unity between complementarians and egalitarians, perhaps there will be a missionary speaker or two, a minority speaker or two. I have the utmost respect for those preaching at TG4G and those preparing the conference. I am hopeful of more togetherness between pastors and churches, and Lord willing that will happen at TG4G. You all are right to emphasize "truth" and the "gospel," and both of those terms in the NT are at their core related to the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as he inaugurated the kingdom of God. If this truly is the focus of the conference, and people are empowered to live radical lives for Jesus and spend themselves for their neighborhoods and for the nations, then I rejoice. My previous post was intended not to call into question the integrity of the presenters or the conference planners but to call for a rethinking of the church's call to unity around the Lord Jesus and unity in mission. Does TG4G promote this unity and mission? I sincerely do hope so. My impression from the website is that the emphasis falls strongly on the intellectual aspects of the "truth," with the practical steps toward church unity remaining under-represented. I rejoice with the small steps at TG4G and hope for more practical outworkings of the deep "togetherness" that the happens when Christians love each other and unify around Christ in word and deed, rather than stopping at intellectual unity.
No one is accusing of any of the leaders or speakers of ill intent. Yes, Piper lives in the city. Yes, his church strives to engage and reach out to the diverse community around them. This is wonderful! No one is challenging that. If I told you that I go to his church help convince you of my heart? However, just because those things about Piper and Bethlehem are true doesn't make the questions about the Togetherness aspect of this conference automatically invalid.
Let's keep in mind that there are only 7 speakers. All of them are white. Why is this such a problem? Why does this automatically show some sort of segregation mindset in the Church? I could understand if it were say 20. Questioning the togetherness of this conference on the basis that the small amount of speakers speaking all have the same skin color is not logical, and very unfair. And comments like the entire 7th post as well as:
"I personally don't see the purpose of the conference, as well.
All the speakers are white. It follows that all the attendees (or the vast majority) probably are as well."
do, regardless of the intentions, insult the spirit of this conference, and those who worked so hard to put it together.
There is no valid reason to question the togetherness aspect of this conference simply because the speakers are white. Let's not let this distract us from the intent of this conference.
For those who are not onsite, I'd like to report that we do have diversity at this conference. I have met brothers of many races here. In addition to Americans of many hues, there are men here from Ethiopia, Bolivia, Australia, El Salvador, Mexico, India, Germany, Switzerland, the UK, Canada, and probably many other nations that I have not noted. Perhaps that would be helpful to know in countering any assumptions based simply on the invited speakers.
To Brian Tabb:
This is just a suggestion, but it might help avoid any confusion if you would post using your first and last name, seeing as my name is Brian Thornton, and using Brian T. might make some people think your posts are mine (I don't want to take any credit for anything you say that is worthwhile, and I don't want you to get blamed for anything I say that may come off the wrong way).
To 'A Neighbor':
Regarding your questions and comments about the apparent racism toward women at this conference, all you and others need do is go to the home page of the T4G website and read the sub-title of this conference...
"A Conference and Conversation for Pastors and Preachers"
The office of Pastor and Preacher is biblically held by a man...this is not racist or egotistical in any way, but simply the design of God for the office of Pastor/Preacher/Elder/Overseer.
The irony intended from my earlier comment was obviously taken the wrong way by some. I am very thankful for the ministries of men like C.J. Mahaney and John Piper. I'm not implying anything about these men (or any of the others) personally. In fact, Piper's preaching on social justice is part of the reason I made the comment I did! What I am trying to point out is that the gospel is more than just talk about common doctrine - to be truly unified means an Ephesians 2, living illustration of all types of people living out the core truths of the gospel - which means inviting speakers of all races, etc., to contribute and not just "letting them sign up."
Thanks to Carolyn for actually reporting some of the makeup of the conference.
I still think we've got a long way to go in being "together" for the Gospel, and I hope the 2008 conference includes a little more diversity of belief and race - heaven will be beautiful with Christ and his work being the ONLY thing that unifies every tribe, tongue and nation - not Reformed doctrines, positions on women in ministry, positions on baptism, the gifts of the Spirit, where you were born, how much education you had, etc., etc. This is the type of "Together for the Gospel, Together for JESUS" that I dream about. The kingdom of God is so much bigger, so much more glorious than that. Not only intellectually, but practically speaking! I say this having tasted the joys of multi-racial ministry, in which Christ truly IS the ONLY one unifying the church, and not social status, race, or even language. And as a woman having tasted the joys of biblical languages and theology, why are we not concerned about the women who write women's bible studies and books? They need to hear these conversations too.
Anyways, please understand that my intention is not to demean anyone at the conference, but simply to say that there is SO MUCH MORE that could be accomplished to show true, genuine, unity in Christ and His glorious Gospel, to show the validity of the truths we believe that are at work in us by God's Spirit.
Amen, Still Unsure. I totally agree with your comment about women who write women's Bible studies. I have read too many that stray far from the core message of the Gospel and would love for many female authors/speakers/leaders of women's ministries to have been as welcomed at T4G. I know that this conference "subtitle" says it's targeted towards men, but I wonder why they thought opening it up to more women wouldn't have been in line with their major goals. It seems to me that women in ministry could have benefitted just as much as men in ministry. Why do we tend to send women to practical application for your home and family conferences and men to deeply theological ones? If I was a woman in ministry I would have loved to be at T4G, and I hope you all take that as a compliment of the conferece!
Sorry to be provocative!
Thanks for the clarification Brian Thornton. Thank you Carolyn for the update about who actually came to TG4G- admittedly, I am not there. I would like to briefly respond to Dallas PYMM's statement,"There is no valid reason to question the togetherness aspect of this conference simply because the speakers are white. Let's not let this distract us from the intent of this conference."
The intent of the conference is what I have been interested in the whole time, thank you for agreeing (in your own way). The color of the speakers is not ultimate. The gender imbalance is not ultimate. Christ is ultimate and that's why those other things matter. I do not for a moment suggest a "segregation mindset"- that is a misreading of all above statements. Most segregation in our churches is much more subtle, and generally involves promoting the status quo or involves a fear of change or of social pressure. We white males (notice the first person subject) often mean well, but as the majority culture in our country it is our obligation to take the initiative toward the black community and toward the 50% of the church (at least) that is made up of women. My disagreement was not with the conference's desire to have male speakers because of their convictions on the correct interpretation of I Timothy 2-3. I do disagree with the practice of contacting paid registrant women and asking them to give up their spot in the conference so that they can fit a few more men who signed up late. The message that that communicates to many of those women I assume is "Please do not come to our men's only conference, we should not have invited you." That does not send a message like Romans 15:5-7,
"May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus, that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God."
Carolyn, I'm glad you are there, though the comments on your blog show that you have a great attitude about an awkward situation. I wish many more women could share in the fellowship and times of instruction that the men are having in Louisville.
My goodness, get over the sexism thing. Read the homepage for the conference: http://togetherforthegospel.org/. Note: it says: "A Conference and Conversation for Pastors and Preachers " If you'll take a look at http://www.cbmw.org, you'll see how at least Piper and Sproul (and others not involved with T4TG) view the role of women in the church. It does not include women as pastors. That is why they're not there. This is not a conspiracy of a bunch of racist sexists. It is a group of pastors/teachers who hold to a conservative interpretation of what the Scripture teaches about gender roles, and have focused this particular conference on that group. Piper, Sproul and others hold other conferences where women (and all races, by the way) are quite welcome to attend. In fact Ligonier just held theirs a month or so ago, and Desiring God holds theirs in the fall.
If you disagree with their Scriptural interpretation of the role of women in ministry, then I suggest you (directed at any of the "you's" who are objecting on this thread) write a blog article on the subject. Unfortunately, it appears that Tim has turned off the forums here where that was once possible.
Like Bill said, it's time to let go the "sexism" charges. That is not up for discussion here.
I appreciate your gracious comments, Brian and Still Unsure. (I'm glad you understood the humor on my own blog, too, about this event.) I've been thinking about this discussion as I've been here. As has been pointed out earlier, this is a very targeted conference specifically for pastors. That's not to say that women shouldn't be well-taught in theology or doctrine just because this is a pastors conference. On the contrary! The speakers here have been challenging the pastors assembled here to preach deep, rich, and God-exalting messages to their congregations. So by equipping and encouraging these men, the wider Body of Christ will receive the benefit--the women, as well as the men.
One more thought on the issue of race. While I'm not intimately acquainted with the ministries and churches of all of the speakers here, I do know that there is racial diversity among the pastors of Capitol Hill Baptist Church (Mark Dever), Bethlehem Baptist Church (John Piper), and Covenant Life Church/Sovereign Grace Ministries (C.J. Mahaney). It has been said here repeatedly that God's Word transcends culture, which includes the microcosms within our racial cultures. Together for the Gospel puts the reconciliation message of the Gospel on the highest plane, a message for all peoples in all nations.
Tim, thanks for your work here!