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When Worlds Collide
- 09/11/10
- 23
A few days ago I read through R.C. Sproul’s little book When Worlds Collide. This book was written in early 2002, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. Sproul wrote it as a response to those events, as a means of grappling with the difficult questions related to God’s sovereignty and human suffering. As I read the book I was struck by how relevant it remains today, especially since 9/11 is still so real and since so many people still have not really dealt with it in their hearts and minds (and perhaps never will).
It is interesting to trace Sproul’s teaching on the subject. Here I’ll provide just a few quotes that ought to give you a sense of his logic.
The events of 9/11 were a mortal blow to relativism, because the response of Americans and the response of people the world over, after looking at this heinous attack on human life, was the very "unrelativistic" declaration that "This is evil." … One cannot have such a shocking encounter with pure evil and walk away, saying, "Well, it's a relative thing."
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If we look carefully at the biblical understanding of God and construct our worldview on this basis, we see that God in His providence is a sovereign God, who not only governs nature and the laws of nature but who raises nations up and brings nations low. Within His providence come both blessing and calamity.
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If God did not ordain all things, He would not be sovereign over all things. And if He is not sovereign over all things, then He is not God at all.
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God's ordination of all things does not annihilate human decisions or the forces of nature. Yet at the same time the sovereignty of God stands over every human event.
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I do not know why God ordained 9/11, but I know that He did ordain it because if He did not ordain it, it would not have happened. Since it happened, I know for certain that God ordained it in some sense. That is one of the most difficult concepts even for devout Christians to deal with. Yet the concept is found on almost every page of sacred Scripture. It is at the very heart of the Christian faith.
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The word "tragedy" presupposes some kind of order or purpose in the world. If the world has purpose and order, then all that occurs in it is meaningful in some respect. The idea of a "senseless tragedy" represents a worldview that is completely incompatible with Christian thought. It assumes that something happens without purpose or without meaning.
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Christians do not allow for meaningless events to take place, because at the heart of the Christian worldview is the idea that everything in history has a purpose in the mind of Almighty God. God is a purposive God; He is not chaotic.
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In the final analysis, that which defines the Christian worldview is the glory of the cross. The cross remains the symbol for all that is loved and embraced in the Christian worldview. It is also the symbol for all that the pagan worldview despises. The cross is the symbol that causes worlds to collide. It provokes a war that will not end until the consummation of the Kingdom of God.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at 
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Comments (23)
Nice quotes to read on the morning of September 11th, 2010.
Hard to believe it’s been 9 years. I remember exactly what I was doing that day.
RC has some excellent wisdom here for us. Nothing is meaningless for Christians, who have a sovereign Father. I believe God is grieved when tradgedies happen like this, and yet He ordains them as well. Genesis 6:6: “And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.”
But there are those who have been eating the false doctrine of Open Theism, and would say, God did not know this was going to happen the way it did. He was perhaps hoping something would prevent 9/11. Greg Boyd and his followers would think something like this I’m guessing.
Have a blessed Lord’s day.
i just hope people will continue to heal themselves from the tragedy and ask Almighty God to guide them in their respective religions. May God bless us always.
Tim, I just want to thank you for all of the time and effort that you put forth in this blog. I have been reading for about 2 years now and am always thankful for your pensive posts and your A La Carte offerings. This blog has become a tremendous resource and a spiritual encouragement to me. Thank you brother.
I appreciated this post on September 11th. It is always good to be reminded that God is sovereign since we are continuously swimming against the tide of a pagan world view.
This helps a lot. Thank you.
Thank you Tim. I posted to FB.
“…at the heart of the Christian worldview is the idea that everything in history has a purpose in the mind of Almighty God.”
You mean, there’s not one rape or even one child molestation that doesn’t fit into God’s purpose? I know it’s not much use arguing the point with the Defenders of the Truth but for those that might stumble upon this blog wondering if this Jesus might be worth following after all I’d like to say that the stuff posted here is complete poppycock.
Can you picture Jesus saying “Amen, Gods will be done on earth as it is in heaven” as the airplane hit the tower? If you can’t then maybe this “Gods will” stuff is just mans interpretation of what they “think” God is like.
If your God is essentially a big jerk then maybe it’s time to reconsider your theology? Anyway, if you’re looking to learn about Jesus stay away from this blog. These people are scary.
- Leo
Leo
This is where calvinists start tripping over their own logic and theology.
In Sproule’s view: “God’s ordination of all things does not annihilate human decisions or the forces of nature. Yet at the same time the sovereignty of God stands over every human event.”
This view seems to be taking a bet each way. Either God ordains and determines all things, which by very statement does indeed, annihilate human decisions OR He allows the forces to act randomly (thus producing earthquakes, floods, pestilence etc) and allows the free will acts of madmen who fly planes into buildings (or your rapist illustration). God remains sovereign though in bringing about His purposes, in the face of evil acts and in the face of natural disasters, not by directly having a hand in them, but using what He sees to bring about HIs sovereign purpose.
It seems to me that Sproul has used a very circular argument here: “If God did not ordain all things, He would not be sovereign over all things. And if He is not sovereign over all things, then He is not God at all.”. Leo is saying that God ordained 9/11 and the rape of a thirteen year old girl. Why can’t God remain sovereign without being the ordainer? Maybe God watches and weeps at what He sees man doing - man acting with freewill. Maybe in some ways God does intervene. Maybe God comes in and directs mens paths. Maybe He hears their prayers - when they pray. No God is not chaotic and He brings about His purposes in the chaos of the resulting freedom He has given to mankind to live and also in what the chaos of nature produces (windstorms, earthquakes, floods etc).
“You mean, there’s not one rape or even one child molestation that doesn’t fit into God’s purpose?” -Leo
Nope. And God’s blessings to people that hate Him all fit His purpose as well.Not one sparrow can fall and die, unless it is God’s will.
“This is where calvinists start tripping over their own logic and theology.” _KMS
No we don’t.
Well done Don. :)
“If your God is essentially a big jerk then maybe it’s time to reconsider your theology?”- Leo
, Do you regard the rape of a child as greater than the crucifixion of Christ?
KMS I am with you. I do NOT think that evil originates with God. That is cultic Calvinism, not a biblical view of God as expresses in the person of Jesus. Cultic Calvinism is similar to Mormonism in that once you are sucked into it it’s very difficult to get out.
- Leo
Let me see if I get this right. I am being asked by a disciple and follower of Jesus Christ (I presume) if I “…regard the rape of a child as greater than the crucifixion ofChrist?”.
The fact that such a question is even asked in a Christian forum Should make one think twice about once theology.
I would say that one is a great sin and the other is a great (the greatest) act of love. I don’t see Jesus arranging the former to accomodate the latter. That is simply a sick concept of God/Jesus.
- Leo
“I’d like to say that the stuff posted here is complete poppycock. … Anyway, if you’re looking to learn about Jesus stay away from this blog. These people are scary.”
And yet, here you are — still — as though you have no choice.
People, please don’t feed the troll.
I am very sympathetic to the doctrines of grace, etc. But this is a difficult point.
In what sense can we call God objectively good - “why callest thou me good”, etc - if His will is for both good and for evil? Would you reject the premise that God can be defined as good - I wouldn’t think so?
Can we call anything objectively evil in this view? If it is supposedly in accord with the divine will then can we possibly call anything evil? What is the role of Satan if God’s sovereign will is for some to be raped or murdered or thrust into eternal damnation?
It seems to me that this position is dangerously close to eastern mysticism which attributes all power to their deities and yet imbues them with the power of good and evil.
I am not trolling - these are serious questions for which I would like a serious answer.
I would be very interested in finding the best reformed books on the subject of evil, Satan and theodicy
I’ m just beginning to understand God’s Sovereignity and i am in awe of how much evil God’s Grace holds back. If we we to go for one day without him holding back even the depravity in and around us we would annihilate our won selves to fulfill our own lusts. Thanks Tim for the post.
“One cannot have such a shocking encounter with pure evil and walk away, saying, “Well, it’s a relative thing.”
Great comment. Nor would anyone dare to after the event. Outrage over evil has been hushed these 9 yrs.
“I am not trolling - these are serious questions for which I would like a serious answer.”
The Lord God is one, and yet He is a Triune God as well: Father Son and Holy Spirit. We know this because the Scriptures in the fullness teach us so.
God is good, and He is sovereign. All evil that happens, those who commit the acts are resposible for those evil acts.
Jesus was ordained to be brutally whipped, and then have people spit on Him, and shove a crown of thorns on His holy brow; the thorns which Adam caused by his sin, when God cursed this earth because of man.And though we, mankind murdered the Prince of glory, wnd committed the most heinous of all evil deeds, the Father ordained that His Son would be treated this way. This was done for the glory of God, and for glory of His grace.
Satan, evil, and hell are real, and mankind, all humans deserve to be condemned to hell, because we are sinners, and rebels against a holy God.God is free from any evil. He is righteous and holy.
There’s a bit of a mystery to all this my friend. But the Bible is quite clear on the truth of it.
God was, and is and is to come. God always was. And so we can’t explain how God always was, because we were created.
There’s a serious answer. Hope you will receive it.
Sonny asks, “Do you regard the rape of a child as greater than the crucifixion of Christ?”
Maybe this is not the right question. The crucifixion of Jesus was a foreordained, decision of the Triune God in the council of eternity. Here we see God’s love and grace and judgment on human sin met together. I’m not sure that I would call that evil. Evil men purposed with their father the devil to commit the act, but God was not the author of evil. Freewill men are culpable. However I have difficulty saying that God foreordained the rape of a child, the deaths of 3,000 people on 9/11 or the deaths of 200,000 people in the 2004 tsunami, 1.1ml Jews being exterminated at Auschwitz, or the rape of a woman and the death of her husband at the hands of a lustful king…. (it was David’s sin remember - not God’s for-purpose…). Does God sovereignly bring out good from evil? Yes. It seems to me that RC Spoul has some doubts as to what he is reasoning (his logic) when he stalls and states “Since it happened, I know for certain that God ordained it in some sense. “. RC puts the refrain at the end “in some sense”. Maybe it would be more honest to say that evil men do evil things, that God permits or oversees (possibly with grief and sorrow) the natural outworking of sin, by men with freewills (bent on sin) or in the case of natural tragedy, the outworking of the weather/geological systems. God providentially works with and through these events. It seems otherwise to me that logic will drive RC Sproul into making God the author of evil.
“It seems otherwise to me that logic will drive RC Sproul into making God the author of evil.” KMS
Human logic thinks humanly. God’s ways are way beyond our thinking. And we need to look to His Word for our reasoning and understanding.
There’s not a “maverick molecule” in the universe, as RC would say it.
God is sovereign over every sparrow that dies. He is sovereign over every cancer cell. He is sovereign over evry bullet fired from every gun in every war.
This is what Calvinism, and the Reformed view of Scripture is. So it’s not just RC but many, many theologians, who wrestled with the deep things of God, like How did evil come into this world, if God is all knowing, and eternal, and knows the end from the beginning?
If someone broke into my house tonight and shot and killed my family, (God forbid that would ever happen), then I would know it was God’s will. And yet the evil murderers are guilty, and justice demands they forfeit their lives.
There is great comfort in knowing God is in absolute control of His creation, right down to a sparrow on a tree, or in flight.How much more for us who love Jesus, His Son!
Hi Don - it was Tim who introduced the phrase logic, in his introduction. “Here I’ll provide just a few quotes that ought to give you a sense of his logic.” Do Thanks for your review of the Reformed view.
“However I have difficulty saying that God foreordained the rape of a child, the deaths of 3,000 people on 9/11 or the deaths of 200,000 people in the 2004 tsunami, 1.1ml Jews being exterminated at Auschwitz, or the rape of a woman and the death of her husband at the hands of a lustful king”- KMS
If God himself says it pleases him to inflict his own Son, the rape of a child, the 9/11, 2004 tsunami, the Holocaust, cannot shake me from this doctrine.
Sonny writes: “If God himself says it pleases him to inflict his own Son, the rape of a child, the 9/11, 2004 tsunami, the Holocaust, cannot shake me from this doctrine.”
So perhaps we should thank God for all of these? Perhaps Westboro Baptist has the right attitude then.
“Thank God for Dead Soldiers. Thank God for 9/11. Thank God your child’s in Hell”.
If He’s decreed it, it is therefore good, no?