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Prayer: Does it Make Any Difference?
- 09/18/06
- 35
I don’t envy the man who writes a book on prayer, for I can’t think of too many topics that have been written about more extensively than this. There are many spiritual classics dealing with the topic and surely an author must wonder if anything he writes can contribute to the discussion. New to the fray is Prayer: Does It Make Any Difference by Philip Yancey. A guaranteed bestseller, this book, by virtue of the topic and the author, is sure to sell tens or hundreds of thousands of copies. And so it was with some interest that I read this book, interested in learning what so many people would learn from Yancey.
This book arose from Yancey’s determination that many Christians know prayer to be theoretically important but yet practice it very little. “Everywhere, I encountered the gap between prayer in theory and prayer in practice. In theory prayer is the essential human act, a priceless point of contact with the God of the universe. In practice prayer is often confusing and fraught with frustration. My publisher conducted a website poll, and of the 678 respondents only 23 felt satisfied with the time they were spending in prayer. That very discrepancy made me want to write this book.” This book is not a how-to guide. “I have not attempted a guide book that details techniques such as fasting, prayer retreats, and spiritual direction. I investigate the topic or prayer as a pilgrim, strolling about, staring at the monuments, asking questions, mulling things over, testing the waters. I admit to an imbalance, an overreaction to time spent among Christians who promised too much and pondered to little, and as a result I try to err on the side of honesty and not pretense.” He goes on to say, “If prayer stands as the place where God and human beings meet, then I must learn about prayer. Most of my struggles in the Christian life circle around the same two themes: why God doesn’t act the way we want God to, and why I don’t act the way God wants me to. Prayer is the precise point where those themes converge.”
I can’t deny that I was pleasantly surprised by much of the content of Prayer. Yancey is a deep thinker and one who excels at asking difficult but still useful and interesting questions. He has clearly invested a great deal of time and effort in prayer and in wrestling with the deep questions. He says much that is worth thinking about; worth pondering. “In prayer I shift my point of view away from my own selfishness.” “Prayer is the act of seeing reality from God’s point of view.” “The main purpose of prayer is not to make life easier, nor to gain magical powers, but to know God. I need God more than anything I might get from God.” “God is a Person too, and though a person unlike ourselves, One who surely fulfills more of what that word means, not less.” When discussing unanswered prayer he writes, “By answering every possible prayer, God would in effect abdicate, turning the world over to us to run. History shows how we have handled the limited power granted us: we have fought wars, committed genocide, fouled the air and water…” and so on. There is much in this book that will prove valuable, both that which comes from Yancey’s pen and that which he quotes from other authors and theologians. Yet there were several themes found in the book that I found troubling.
Yancey has, in the past, hinted that he adheres to the doctrine of Open Theism and believes in a somewhat less than omnipotent or omniscient God. His clearest affirmations of this were in his book Disappointment with God, a title that is often referred to and quoted in Prayer. While this new book does not contain an explicit affirmation of that doctrine, Yancey again drops hints that he does believe it. Only a few pages into the book he says, “A hundred times a second lightning strikes somewhere on earth, and I for one do not believe that God personally programs each course.” Much later, in the closing chapters, he writes, “I know a missionary whose wife and seven-month-old daughter were killed by a single bullet when the air force in a South American country mistook their plane for that of a drug runner and opened fire. ‘God guided the bullet,’ the surviving husband and father said to the press. We have held long discussions about that quote, because I do not believe the ‘Father of compassion’ guides bullets into the bodies of babies. Jesus himself refuted those who blamed human tragedies on God.” Did this tragedy occur outside of God’s control or knowledge? Yancey seems to take almost a middle position, but certainly does not affirm the truths of Scripture regarding God’s fore-ordaining of all events, no matter how tragic. Somewhere between these two quotes comes a similar one which comes from the mouth of an acquaintance of his. “I was trained as a Calvinist. What do I do with all that has happened to me? I don’t lay the accident at God’s feet—I don’t believe God micromanages the planet. I believe God is present in the midst of our brokenness. I just wish I could feel that presence.” Yancey presents a God that is simply far too human.
This emphasis is consistent with another theme that crops up several times. Yancey often speaks of human freedom and God’s overwhelming desire to protect the free will of the people He has made. But the free will proposed by Yancey is not the “bound freedom” of Luther and Edwards, but the libertarian freedom that is foreign to Scripture—the freedom that says a choice is free only when a person could also have chosen the exact opposite. In this area, as with several others, Yancey’s theology is sloppy. For example, in a couple of places he writes about miracles, but many of the so-called miracles would be better-termed providence. There is a thread of theological imprecision throughout this work that is troubling.
A further disturbing theme in the book is Yancey’s respect for all manner of perceived spiritual authorities. He affirms Mother Teresa and Martin Luther as equal authorities on prayer, even in the same sentence (and I don’t think he quotes anyone with greater respect or frequency than Mother Teresa). He often quotes Jewish rabbis as if their theology of prayer should be taken as equal to those who love Jesus Christ and who have submitted their lives and their beliefs to the New Testament. A vast quantity of the answers Yancey provides are based on the writing of people whose beliefs would not align with historic Protestantism and hence with Scripture. And, while this book is not a “how-to” guide, it does include an appendix that lists a wide variety of recommended resources. Among these are a great number of books that promote mysticism, contemplative prayer, lectio divina, Roman Catholic prayer guides and the like. There is a recommendation to a book that “gives guidance to different personalities, following the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test” (something Jesus surely overlooked when teaching us to pray). In fact, the good resources are by far outweighed by the dubious or those that are just plain bad. For example, a section dealing with collections of prayers points readers to the Roman Catholic collection Christian Prayer: Liturgy of the Hours (which, as we might expect includes prayers to Mary) while overlooking classics like The Valley of Vision.
In the end, I admire Yancey’s willingness to ask difficult questions and to really wrestle with the difficult questions surrounding prayer. I felt he did a particularly good job of being sensitive to discussing the issue of physical healing and why God so often chooses not to answer prayer. But in the end, while Yancey asks many good and fair questions, his questions are far better than his answers. He is unafraid to ask difficult questions but is far more hesitant to answer them from Scripture or from within the well-established stream of Protestant theology.
At almost 350 pages, Prayer is not a quick read. Still, Yancey is a gifted author and he makes those 350 pages easy and even enjoyable to read. Sadly, much of what he writes is false; dangerous even. The questions he asks are questions any Christian may have asked before him and will continue to ask long after him. Unfortunately, the answers he provides are often less than scriptural. Those who read this book and follow it by investigating the sources he recommends, could find themselves confused indeed. At the very least they will find themselves led further from the objective reality of Scripture and towards experiential and mystical subjectivity. While this book is meant to be an honest account of Yancey’s struggles with prayer, I couldn’t help but feel he was far more honest with his misgivings and his questions than he was with what he feels are the answers and solutions. When it comes to answers, he seems deliberately vague.
With books on prayer crowding the shelves at the bookstores I see no reason to recommend this one above the many alternatives that may not be as interested in asking the tough questions, but are surely far more honest in directing the reader to the Bible where the answers may be found.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at 
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Comments (35)
Thanks for this review, Tim.
I think you have clearly shown why Yancey is still someone to stay away from, but sadly he is widely read among the ‘evangelical’ community. ..another reason for you to write your book on discernment.
If I was a betting man, I would bet that Packer’s book that you mention above is probably a much better one to read than this one from Yancey.
Tim,
I agree with your assessment of Yancey. While he may give helpful insights at times, I generally can’t give his writings an endorsement.
You mentioned his sources on prayer. In his book, “Soul Survivor”, he writes biographically about several spiritual “gurus” who have influenced his spiritual life. These include:
Martin Luther King, Jr. G.K. Chesterton Dr. Paul Brand Robert Coles Leo Tolstoy and Feodor Dostoevsky Mahatma Gandhi Dr. C. Everett Koop John Donne Annie Dillard Frederick Buechner Shusaku Endo Henri Nouwen
Not many orthodox Christians in the list! The absence of those whom most of would considergreat heroes of the faith is quite telling.
Thanks for the review, Tim.
Here is the saddest part of your review:
“A guaranteed bestseller, this book, by virtue of the topic and the author, is sure to sell tens or hundreds of thousands of copies.”
So, does poor theology change the way God answers prayer? If we don’t know how to pray as we ought to begin with, how does our theology matter?
If there aren’t any Atheists in fox-holes, are there any Calvinists or Aminians? Or are there just people who pray?
Just thinking out loud….
Wow. Great review Tim. Thanks much.
I didn’t realize Philip Yancey was so weak in the faith.I love to read about the great prayer warriors. George Mueller, E. M. Bounds, and so many others.The Scriptures are so full of prayers for us the children of God to pray from our hearts.
” … we also … do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that you might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;That you might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;Giving thanks unto the Father, who has made us fit to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son:In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins”. Col. 1:9-14AMEN!
Thanks for the excellent review. Good to know.
Another great book on this topic is Matthew Henry’s ‘A Method for Prayer’ edited by Ligon Duncan.
Henry does an incredible job of formulating prayers with Scripture…it is worth a look.
Hey Donsands,
I’m not sure you are qualified to deem Yancey “weak in the faith” by reading a book review.
Dan, perhaps Donsands is not qualified based upon one book review, but I have read more than this, and I can say that, while I may not describe Yancey as ‘weak’ in the faith, I will certainly say that he is ‘errant’ in the faith.
Tim is right, many of Yancey’s positions are not just wrong or different…they are dangerous.
Errant doctrine, according to Paul, is the doctrine of demons…and he was referring to those who were just forbidding marriage and abstaining from the eating of meat.
How much more serious might these false teachings from Yancey be on those who will snatch up this book and read it with little to no discernment?
For example, a section dealing with collections of prayers points readers to the Roman Catholic collection Christian Prayer: Liturgy of the Hours (which, as we might expect includes prayers to Mary)
It’s a minor point, but I don’t think it does. Most of the Liturgy of the Hours is taken from the Bible. I’ll have a look at my copy when I get home and see if I’m remembering wrong, but when I first discovered it, I was a fairly new Catholic and I was surprised not to find a lot of Marian stuff there.
If there aren’t any Atheists in fox-holes, are there any Calvinists or Aminians? Or are there just people who pray?
Jabbok, that’s a great way to phrase that point. God doesn’t answer prayers based on our knowledge, but on His grace.
I can’t bring myself to read a book by someone that I know has a poor view of God. It just seems like a waste of time when there are so many good books that are sitting on my shelf that I have not read yet. I bought Brian Mclaren’s “Generous Orthodoxy” the other day because I know a lot of people in the Emergent Church movement but I can’t get through two pages! Is there anything edifying in reading such books other than for the sake of warning others to do what you did not do - avoid the book.
dan,
Point taken. It ‘appeared’ to me from this fine review, that Philip Yancey seems to be weak in the faith.
I actually met Mr. Yancey when he spoke at my church over 10 years ago.
really though… why be so easy on Yancey?! he’s the one who’s propagating fasle doctrine, a gospel other than the one preached by the Apostle Paul. What would Jesus say to him?? I would hope someone had the love and mercy to rebuke me the way Tim’s article graciously and honestly reproofs Yancey if I were in error. Whoever would not repent after such an exhortation is an Esau!
“At the very least they will find themselves led further from the objective reality of Scripture and towards experiential and mystical subjectivity.”
Please explain why you lump “experiential” in with “mystical” as a negative to the “objective reality of scripture”. I find my prayer life to be very “experiential” at times. Do we all not “feel” God’s presence at times when we truly seek Him?
I’m currently reading “Prayer” and have read several of Yancey’s other books. While I do not always agree with his theologiy, Yancey’s writings have been extremely helpful for me in deadling with the disappointments and struggles in the Chrsitian faith. So let’s be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Experiential…subjectivity. God’s Word is the measuring rod for our experience. As long as we compare our experience with Scripture, and don’t simply stand on experience alone, we keep ourselves from walking in the flesh.
Experience is exciting for the flesh, which will always leap to its defense. Truth excites, stirs and revives the spirit, helping us to overcome the flesh. The flesh asks why ‘bad’ things happen to ‘good’ people, and the spirit rejoices in the truth of an eternal hope. The sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to be revealed in us.
Very good review, Tim. Interesting that many popular ‘Christian’ authors these days are marketed as ‘thinker, author, lecturer, professor, coach’, but seldom as pastor, or simply Christian.
theophilus
maybe philip yancey should have lied when he wrote soul survivor, and only talked about ‘heroes of the faith’ who had nothing to do with his return and growth in the Church.
people say, “no one can argue with your testimony.” soul survivor is a testimony of yancey. would you discredit a different christian’s testimony who stood up in church and said that God imparted faith to them as they read a secular book or watched a secular movie?
i’m sure that if all of us wrote books, there would be nothing contained within the pages that would be of danger to those of “little or no discernment.”
can concern for doctrine run afoul with other commands? i believe so: be devoted to one another in brotherly love; honor one another before yourselves; this is not just an issue of throwing out the baby with the bathwater but of foolishly rejecting something we might learn from. if you say we have nothing to learn from Gandhi, i believe you are missing something. thankfully, you have that which Gandhi lacked, the most important thing, faith in Christ. just like our brother Philip Yancey
(this is no defense of anything he’s written except soul survivor, the only book i’ve read. it is a defense of friends of my own who like his books and of his value as a worker in the Kingdom)
Chris:
Granted, gifts of discernment can be exercised in the wrong spirit, but isn’t it actually operating in TRUE love to point out the errors that might take a brother or sister from Biblical faith and doctrine? That is certainly part of being devoted to one another in brotherly love! It is also showing that you love and want to protect God’s Truth; we have to worship in spirit and in truth. Also, if we can agree that there IS a danger in promoting false doctrine, then Phillip Yancey or any other Christian author/teacher has a greater responsibility to uphold and clearly represent Biblical doctrine. Practically speaking, I think he should be more precise when writing a book about spiritual influencers or mentors; i.e. state what he admires about this person along with a qualifier, if needed, to explain where the person departs from Biblical truth. Of course, it would be ideal to use examples that don’t need major caveats or qualifiers tacked on! But if a teacher really cares about God’s Word and Truth above all, he would see that this is a small sacrifice to guard against misperceptions and error. I’ve actually read Phillip Yancey since his Campus Life days and loved his style and perspective. However, I love God’s Truth more and I won’t let my admiration of him as a writer cloud my judgement of whether he accurately represents Biblical doctrine—God’s Truths revealed to us.
Thanks for an insightful review, Tim.
I respect your critique of Yancey’s book and his thinking in general. How alarming it is to see the growing resistance to what Scripture plainly teaches; and this from those who should be defending and embracing biblical truth. I especially appreciate your informed and careful manner in taking issue with error.
“And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance, leading to a knowledge of the truth.”-2 Timothy 2:24
people say, “no one can argue with your testimony.” soul survivor is a testimony of yancey.
A personal testimony is not the gospel…a personal testimony is subjective, emotional, and experiential. And it means nothing if it does not line up with what is found in Scripture.
Would you discredit a Mormon who said that God imparted faith to them as they read a secular book or watched a secular movie? If what you mean by ‘no one can argue with your testimony’ is that, since you experienced it personally yourself then it must be true and no one can argue with that…then doesn’t that hold true for ANY person in ANY religion?
We CAN and SHOULD argue with personal testimonies all day long if they are contrary to the word of God.
One of the worst trends ever to happen in the church is this technique of using personal testimonies as a tool for evangelism. It is exactly what the Mormons use in their ‘witnessing’, but, hey…as you said, you can’t argue with someone’s testimony.
would you discredit a different christian’s testimony who stood up in church and said that God imparted faith to them as they read a secular book or watched a secular movie?
Absolutely…if that testimony was absent the gospel.
Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Chris,
What I am saying is that, if you ask someone who their primary spiritual influences have been, and they rattle off a list of people like the ones featured in Yancey’s “Soul Survivor” book, I would find their view of the gospel and of grace to be highly suspect. (Again, not everyone in his list are poor spiritual role models, but the majority of them are).
We are largely a product of what we read, and if such people are more admirable in my eyes than those throughout history who have loved the free grace of Christ as set forth in the gospel, or those who have loved not their lives and have freely given them for the sake of Christ, what does that say of my qualification to write influential spiritual books?
Yancey’s list is, quite frankly, full of moralists. God does not accept their moralism; he does accept the righteousness of Christ. If it’s examples of Christian virtue that Yancey desires to emulate, why not value the lives of those whose virtue has been the work of the Holy Spirit, prompted by a love of God for sending His Son?
My point was this: If Yancey values such moralists and philosophers more than He esteems people like Martin Luther, Jonathan Edwards, and Jim Elliot (for example), then I should take caution before I let him influence me spiritually. He’s coming from a whole other place.
“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.” (Colossians 2:8)
I’m not going to defend Yancey. I find many of his views troubling. But I also find some of them quite profound and perfectly in line with Scripture.
Herein lies the problem.
Anyone who lives out on the ragged edge, even the ragged edge of faith, is going to be scorned by “traditionalists.” The Bible is filled with people who lived on the ragged edge of faith and were not appreciated by the people who practiced safe positions.
Yes, we can all feel good about going to church in our pressed pants and starched shirts every Sunday, our tie chosen for its subtle pattern so we don’t offend anyone. We can inhabit our demographically homogenous neighborhoods, quaff our lattes on the way to work, and read all about great heroes of the faith during our small group that meets in a quarter million dollar home. We can live forever in sterilized safety.
But that kind of safety avoids the ragged edge where the tough ministry occurs. We can talk about Edwards, Spurgeon, and any other great, but can we walk into a gay bar and minister Christ there? Just who among us will castigate the person who makes the decision to do so? Many more than should, sadly.
The Christian blogosphere resembles little more than a ghetto of thinking sometimes. Everyone reads the same authors, talks the same party line, and blanches at the same heretics.
But are we growing? Are we finding ways to live on the ragged edge of faith, those edges where our friends, safe in their little enclaves, shake their heads and wonder at us?
Life in the Spirit will take you places that aren’t safe. What did Zebedee say when his sons James and John took off after some unknown rabbi? Was he happy? I doubt it. Not only did he lose his help and his retirement, but who really knew eaxctly what this new teacher was teaching? In the same way, many of us aren’t happy when others, driven by the Spirit of God, press on in a way that seems foreign to us.
What happens when you ask a blind man to describe the color blue? How can he unless he’s seen it? Too many of us are like that blind man. We fault those who have seen the color blue because we can’t possibly understand what those crazies are talking about.
We act as if there’s not one single truth to glean from outside our comfort zone. We may have read all the Sproul, Machen, and Poythress in the world, but have we read Fenelon, Wigglesworth, or Nee?
Discernment is not a blanket condemnation, but the ability to find 95% of the truth in a series of ideas (such as a book) and throw the rest out. And considering that we all see through a glass darkly this side of heaven, no book you read will be 100% perfect. We should judge all things rightly, no matter who wrote them. Even Yancey and his coterie of “questionable” sources.
“We should judge all things rightly, no matter who wrote them. Even Yancey and his coterie of “questionable” sources.”
I’d quite agree. The fact is, though, that with the great number of books on prayer, and with most people reading very seldom, I think the average Christian would be better served by reading a better book…
A couple other things…
What, BTW, does Yancey actually say about the efficacy of prayer in the lives of average Christians? I don’t think I saw that mentioned in the review, even though it appears to be the main topic of the book
In the Reformed circles I’ve run in over the years, it seemed that the outward manifestation of a deep prayer life was as just as based in material prosperity as that of any follower of Rod Parsley. A nice house, a good-looking wife, a couple late model cars, one’s health, and successfully getting the kids into good schools seemed to be the physical evidence of one’s faithfulness in prayer.
But have we ever asked if that was actually the OPPOSITE of what God desires for most of us?
What if the results of a good prayer life were a stripping away of all material wealth and the loss of social standing rather than the societal exaltation of it? That we become the refuse of the world rather than captains of industry?
That’s an issue most of us don’t wish to address. We may laud a David Brainerd or Jim Elliot, but we don’t seem to believe in practice that an effective prayer life leaves us dead of TB before 30 or speared to death in a jungle.
So if it’s not about how good we look on the outside or the things we receive in prayer, is it solely about drawing near to God?
If so, how is an effective prayer life measured? If the Bible is any indication, those people who drew close to God had all manner of wild things happen to them. Many reacted with emotional outbursts when confronted with the living God. Yet many today say that our emotions play no part in prayer, or that one’s emotional responses show no indication that an encounter with God has happened.
What then makes for an effective prayer life and how is that measured?
DLE, quite frankly, your comments are troubling, to say the least.
Anyone who lives out on the ragged edge, even the ragged edge of faith, is going to be scorned by “traditionalists.”
-Judging from the context of this statement, those who live on the ‘ragged edge of faith’ are the likes of Yancey, and those who take issue with his aberrant theology are ‘traditionalists’.
-Staying in context here, that would put those who were forbidding marriage and advocating abstaining from eating meat in 1 Timothy in the Yancey camp, and conversely Paul would be put in the traditionalist camp.
-Your comments, dripping with disdain and contempt, do nothing to further this discussion.
But are we growing? Are we finding ways to live on the ragged edge of faith, those edges where our friends, safe in their little enclaves, shake their heads and wonder at us?
-If living on the ragged edge of faith is equal to holding to the god of Yancey, you can have it. Because, it matters not what he does if he is preaching a different Jesus.
We act as if there’s not one single truth to glean from outside our comfort zone.
-I don’t know about you, DLE, but my comfort zone is Scripture. And, No. I will contend that there is not one single truth to ‘glean’ outside of that ‘zone’.
Discernment is not a blanket condemnation, but the ability to find 95% of the truth in a series of ideas (such as a book) and throw the rest out.
-Yancey, and those like him, need to go back to the elementary principles of Scripture, which those who are discerning are easily able to distinguish from that which is false.
-I believe that Yancey, and anyone else who holds to the errant doctrine which he endorses, have need again for someone to teach them the elementary principles of the oracles of God.
-Any service or ministry or religion or theological construct that is absent the true Christ of Scripture is engaged in nothing more than pagan ritual, and why would I want to learn from the likes of that foundation?
“I need God more, than anything I might get from God”
This is an excellent thought.
God surely doesn’t need us, but oh how we need Him. The amazing thing is that God longs for us to come before Him, and to ask Him to do things for us. As long as they are according to His will, He will grant our petitions and supplications. If we abide in His word, and His word abides in us, we can pray and ask and the Lord will hear our request. John 5:7
What an awesome and gracious Lord we do serve.
Sorry, that should’ve been John 15:7.
-Your comments, dripping with disdain and contempt, do nothing to further this discussion.
Brian Thornton must have read a different post from the one I did! I thought DLE’s comments were provocative and challenging but certainly not ‘dripping with disdain and contempt’.
I particularly appreciated your second post, DLE: some profound thoughts there that challenged me greatly. :)
I have appreciated and been blessed by Philip Yancey’s books over the years (although it is some time since I actually read anything new by him.) I also heard him speak many years ago at a Christian arts festival, on the subject of suffering. A quiet, thoughtful, rather self-effacing man.
Tim claims that Yancey believes in Open Deism. Don’t the Open Deism people deny that God knows the future???? (I confess that I know very little about it.) Well, I have never once got the impression from Yancey’s books that he believed in such a thing. He’s obviously not a Calvinist (neither am I) but that hardly makes him a liberal. I’ve always thought of him as a Christian speaker and writer who asks the questions that a lot of evangelicals shy away from. Suffering IS a mystery, not one that is easily solved by the most rigorous of systematic theologies.
I appreciate writers like Yancey, who do write somewhat from the edge. He’s not a theologian. I think that ought to be clear. But he’s a gifted storyteller with a pastoral heart.
Brian,
You’re trying to force things into what I wrote that are not there.
My comfort zone is 100% rooted in Scripture, too. But it bothers me when Christians don’t engage folks who look at things differently. Even if those people are 90% wrong, as a Christian I should not be afraid to engage their ideas or to ponder issues they raise that catch me in my blind spots.
A New Age environmentalist may raise good questions about the wasteful way we live. Despite all the doctrine I know about wasteful living, those Scriptures may not be at the forefront of how I live my life. Yet what that environmentalist has to say may very well be used of God to call to mind how God would desire that we live more simply and waste less of the provision He’s given us. In that way, what the New Age environmentalist has to say does have value. Discernment is understanding what to throw out that he says and what is still ultimately true, especially in light of the Scriptures.
Do you have any blind spots? If you only read authors who reinforce your existing system of beliefs, then how do you ever encounter ideas that may expand what God is trying to say to you?
A couple months ago on my own blog, I recommended that readers read two books by Randy Frazee. I said that those books had many flaws, but raised questions that were extremely important for us to ask about North American Christianity and the way we live our lives in practice.
One commenter couldn’t understand how I could possibly recommend books I considered flawed. Her comment reflects the ghetto mentality we too often fall into today. Because we do not engage ideas outside our own experience, we fail to grow.
All of us are growing. Every writer you read is a different person now than when they first started writing. They know more. They’ve incorporated more life experience and learned better ways to incorporate the doctrine they know into the practice of their faith. Some people will stray. Others will grow closer to the center of what Christ desires in a disciple.
Yancey may be moving toward Christ or away from Him. What matters for anyone who reads him is that they engage his ideas with discernment. If even one thing he discusses has value in helping others grow in Christ, then we can’t write him off entirely, even if his other ideas are bad. His one good idea may be one no one else in the Church is addressing and therefore it has value.
Now, as Tim rightly notes above, that doesn’t mean Yancey’s book is worth our time when so many other great books on prayer exist. But in the same way, if all we ever read are those people with whom we agree 100%, sooner or later we won’t have any books left to read. And sadly, too many people out there are like the commenter on my blog who sees no value at all in reading a flawed book, even if that book tweaks our comfort zones in a way that is definitely in line with Christ’s will for our lives.
DLE, the problem with your approach is that you seem to advocate gleaning truth from any and every source available to mankind, with the instruction that one must use discernment to weed out all the error…thereby leaving what is true and learning from that truth.
I’m sorry, but with the likes of a Yancey, or a Warren, or an Eldridge, or a Hinn, or an Osteen…my time is too valuable to spend it wading through the muck and the mire of their aberrant theologies and philosophies to glean whatever little nugget of truth they may happened to have included in their writings or teaching.
Do you have any blind spots? If you only read authors who reinforce your existing system of beliefs, then how do you ever encounter ideas that may expand what God is trying to say to you?
DLE, the only blind spot remover a believer really needs is the word of God. It is the ONLY book where one doesn’t have to wade through and weed out the bad from the good.
If even one thing he discusses has value in helping others grow in Christ, then we can’t write him off entirely, even if his other ideas are bad. His one good idea may be one no one else in the Church is addressing and therefore it has value.
Sorry, DLE, but to me, this is just not a very good reason for continuing to read a writer or writers who may have a little bit of truth scattered throughout a sea of error.
Finally, we are not talking about bad ideas…we are talking about false doctrine.
i don’t think one can be legalistic one way or the other. book recommendations, or author inspirations, can be tricky and depend on maturity. theologians need to read provocative, controversial and heretical works. new believers do not. peole who react strongly against controversial book recommendations might have seen someone on the good path knocked off it by the book. the weaker sibling didn’t spit out the bones that were obvious to us, and now they are sick.
challies has pointed out some pointy bones in this book, while acknowledging some of the benefits. it’s not salmon, but more like pike. should we encourage those weaker sibs to eat pike? our freedom should not be a stumbling block to those weaker. therefore, i think it is awfully risky to recommend authors with so many bones in their works. perhaps those who are stronger have a responsibility to digest those bony fish and regurgitate the good stuff for their blog readers instead of recommending with warnings.
this review led me to rant again at my blog on open theism, although one poster misnamed it open deism which sounds more appropriate. in summary, why risk causing the weaker sibs to stumble? on the other hand, let’s not burn the books by bonier believers.God is goodjpu
i am not the one who says “no one can argue with your testimony”— it’s a cliche. obviously testimonies are not carte blanche. obviously a non-believer’s testimony does not mean they hold Christian doctrine
however, i think what matters more is what you believe, not who you are influenced by. so, yancey in your/my opinion isn’t right about everything? who is? does he uphold the major pts of Christianity, the basics? probably so. you know, Jesus was son of God, died on cross for our sins.
soul survivor was a testimony from Yancey— but not about how he came to believe doctrine. I don’t have the book with me right now but I don’t believe he calls them his “primary spiritual influences” as Brian said. it’s about the renewal of his involvement in the church during one season of his life.
furthermore, i’d be suspicious of someone who wrote a book on primary spiritual influences that was full of “heroes of the faith.” i think that people we actually know, our pastors, or parents, or mentors, are going to have more to do with that than anything. it’s not as interesting of a book, however. but i think we can safely assume that yancey has received greater influence from these unseen and unknown people
Hmm, typically I’m content to simply lurk and glean from sites as well posted and moderated as this one. But in rare form I guess it’s time to pop from the shadows.
It’s DLE’s musings that have really hit a positive vibe with me. As one who attends a large SGM church in Gaithersburg MD I’m too well entrenched in reformed and biblically sound teaching to not have some reservations about some of what I have gathered about Yancy over the years. I think it goes with out saying most of us have limited time and energy and Tim’s review of Yancy’s book was of service to me if for no other reason then I will likely seek insight on this topic via other, more biblically sound authors.
That said, I have to admit I think DLE has made a good point about our foci being far more dogmatic then we sometimes may realize. And I don’t think the issue is heretical doctrine so much as challenging our typecast notions of what “valid” Christianity is. If anything I’ve been seeking to both deepen and broaden the understanding of my faith while staying true to scripture, sound doctrine and orthodox Christianity. This is to say I’m finding mine is not the only (Christian) tradition nor the only one speaking God’s truth.
I couldn’t agree more strongly with DLE’s notion of living on a ragged edge. For me personally, he hit the nail right on the head. I’ve been fearful there is something not quite right with my upper middle class, American, latte sipping, half million dollar home (at least my neck of the woods) lifestyle for a while now. While wonderful, protective and spiritually enriching in many regards, I suspect I too exist in a little “safe zone” Christian enclave where monoculture and “right” thinking is the order of the day. I’m not sure where the *perfect* balance is but DLE does make some, for me at least, provocative and cogent points.
Brian Thornton wrote:
I’m sorry, but with the likes of a Yancey, or a Warren, or an Eldridge, or a Hinn, or an Osteen…my time is too valuable to spend it wading through the muck and the mire of their aberrant theologies and philosophies to glean whatever little nugget of truth they may happened to have included in their writings or teaching.
Brian, please do not lump Philip Yancey together with the likes of Joel Osteen!!!!!! :)
He’s a thoughtful writer who stands against shallow triumphalism and prosperity theology.
Darrell, thank you for your post. :)
You should check Yancey out, particularly his earlier books like ‘What’s so amazing about grace’ and ‘The Jesus I never knew’ . He too has some cogent and, yes, edifying, things to say.
Tim, just a question maybe you can elaborate on. I’m a 5-point Calvinist, and I fully agree with you that Yancey is problematic because of his proclivity to Open Theism and people like Mother Teresa.
My sole question is, what’s your understanding of lectio divina, and why is it a problem? Is it a problem in the “slippery slope” sense, or is there something wrong with lectio divina itself? Thanks for your thoughts!
A book that addresses the lifestyle of safety many western Christians think passes for moral, upright living is Ron Sider’s 2005 Baker Books release “The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience.” Christianity today interviewed Sider in April 2005; you can find the interview on the web. I found the interview to be rending and provoking. J.I. Packer wrote a book of similar ilk, now out of print, entitled “Hot Tub Religion.”