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On Visiting Saddleback Church
- 09/16/09
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Last week I met Rick Warren. I was in Los Angeles to speak at the Christian Web Conference (where my topic was "Tweeting Truth With Love: Grace in an Age of Instant Communication") and at the conference I bumped into David Chrzan, Warren's Chief of Staff. He and I spoke for quite some time--an hour at least--and chatted about some of the critiques I've made in the past regarding Warren and his books. With ministries as expansive and important as Saddleback and Purpose Driven, these people are accustomed to dealing with detractors and over the years some of my critiques have reached their ears.
The irony of my talk with David is that I had come all the way to California to speak about the importance of communicating truth with love and there I was, being challenged on doing just that. It was not David challenging me as much as my own conscience. I wondered, had I always been fair to Warren? As David and I spoke it suddenly dawned on me that Rick Warren is a real person. He isn't a robot or a really clever computer who spits out books and sermons, but a real guy. And as a real guy, he is aware of some of the controversy that surrounds him--including reviews and articles written by the likes of me. And as I've often had to do in the past, I had to pause to consider whether I would say to Warren face-to-face what I've said about him in my reviews and articles. This is not to say that I've ever accused Warren of heresy or torturing kittens. But I have commented on the nature, the completeness of the gospel he preaches--surely a topic that is close to his heart.
Later that day I received a "tweet" (it's a Twitter thing) from Warren inviting me to come and check out Saddleback. Every time I am in California I think of doing so, but it has never quite worked out. This time, though, it fit my schedule perfectly. So I set out for Saddleback with a couple of friends.
Before I got to Saddleback, I went back and read through some of what I've written about Warren over the years, focusing on what have undoubtedly been the three most-read articles: my reviews of The Purpose Driven Church, The Purpose Driven Life and The Purpose of Christmas. As I read them, I was actually pleased to see that I was, at least in my opinion, quite level-headed in these reviews. I think they were generally kind and rational, even while disagreeing with some of what Warren communicated. What I have not done is critique Warren to the extent that others have done. I've never considered him a pawn of the United Nations who is attempting to bring about one-world government and the downfall of all society. I don't think I've ever accused him of deliberately trying to push a pro-New Age agenda on his readers. I have sought to focus on the message and method he advocates in his books.
My main critiques of Warren and his ministry have been:
His use of Scripture. Most notably, this involves using many translations based, at least from an outside perspective, more on what the translations say than on their faithfulness to the original text.
The completeness of the gospel. In The Purpose Driven Life he says, "Real life begins by committing yourself completely to Jesus Christ" but really goes no further than that in explaining the gospel. And this in one of the best-selling books of all-time. I have often found that the gospel he preaches stops just a little bit short. It is just a little too easy.
His view of conversion. In The Purpose Driven Life he encourages readers to pray this prayer: "Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you" and then welcomes them into the family of God. His view of conversion and his haste to baptize people and welcome them into church membership (you can do all of these in a single day at Saddleback) have often caused alarm.
The role of pragmatism. In The Purpose Driven Church he makes a blanket statement that is really startling when you pause to consider it: "never criticize what God is blessing." This kind of pragmatism in which faithfulness is judged by our perceived results is a hallmark of the Purpose Driven model of church.
So these critiques were in the back of my mind as I headed to Saddleback, as David kindly gave us a thorough tour of the facilities and as I attended the Saturday evening worship service. And I suppose they were just in the back of my mind as I spent perhaps a half hour with Warren after the service.
A few people have since asked me to describe my meeting with Warren. I don't really know how or why I would do that. How or why would I evaluate and analyze a half-hour of mostly-random conversation? We sat down with no agenda and mostly just chatted. But what I will say is this: having met Warren and having spent a few hours at Saddleback I was at once impressed with his giftedness and confirmed in some of my concerns about his ministry. As an example of the former, he reads hundreds of books per year and just this year has already completed 18 of 26 volumes of the complete works of Jonathan Edwards (whom he regards as his hero). As an example of the latter, his sermon on Sunday used at least 6 Bible translations, some of which seemed to be chosen at the expense of the true meaning. So I guess I was confirmed in seeing that Warren is a pretty normal guy in most ways and an above average guy in other ways. I can see his passion for what he does--his passion for sharing Christ with the world. At the same time, I walked away realizing that many of my concerns are fair ones.
I want to affirm here, though, that I am allowed by Scripture to disagree with him. None of my critiques or concerns indicate that I think he is unsaved or deliberately doing things contrary to Scripture. Rather, I believe it is primarily that he and I read Scripture differently at certain points. We read the same words and come to different conclusions. If I did not believe my conclusions were the proper ones and if I did not believe they were important, I would have no reason to raise my concerns. Honestly, I feel that Warren is, in a sense, better than his theology--that with his intellect and knowledge of Scripture and expansive knowledge of what others have written, he ought to see a kind of disconnect between some of what he must believe and how this theology works itself out through his church. I wonder if he has paused to ask what Jonathan Edwards would have to say about his church, his books, his methods. So having spent time with the man and his ministry, and while granting that I saw just a brief glimpse of each, I want to affirm that there is much that seems sound but much else that bears a kind of iron-sharpening-iron kind of critique. Warren has thrust himself onto an international stage and therefore he cannot be surprised when he receives critique. If he were a small-town pastor in middle America, no one would be noticing and critiquing him. But as a pastor who prays at Presidential inaugurations and who has the ear of many world leaders, he has to expect that people will dissect his words. After all, as a Christian leader there are times when he represents all of us and there are times when hundreds of thousands of people are listening to his every word.
Somehow just meeting Warren reinforced in my mind the challenge we face as we reconcile ourselves to a fast-paced, digital world in which a person can quickly dash off a missive that can severely impact another person on the other side of the continent. It seems that ethics and morality have been a bit slow to catch up to ability in this new digital world. As I read those three reviews I realized that in each case there would be things I might say just a little differently. I am too often prone to forget that the authors whose books I review are real people and I am too quick to ignore my conscience when I consider whether the things I write and post online for all the world to read are things I would also say face-to-face. I hope this will help me in the future as I seek to be fair and godly in all that I write.
In November Zondervan will release The Hope You Need, the long-awaited follow-up to The Purpose Driven Life and one that is based on the Lord's Prayer (which, in turn, was the subject of an eight-part sermon series). I intend to review this book as I've reviewed each of his other titles. But I think, having met Warren and having met the people who work with him, I can honestly say that this review will be a little bit different. It will come from a new perspective and, I hope, be as fair as I know how to Warren, to Saddleback and to Scripture.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I write books and blogs for fun while doing web design and consulting for a living. I worship and serve at 
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Comments (46)
Good post, Tim. I appreciate your blog and your critiques because you try to be fair with people, even though you disagree with them. Hope no one gives you a hard time about not describing Rick Warren as a monster, or taking your opportunity to lambast him in person. Gentleness, kindness, and brotherly love do not indicate compromise on matters of doctrine or theology, and I'm glad you recognize that, while sticking to your guns about genuine concerns over the Saddleback Approach.
Nice post, Tim. I think Rick is humble and he certainly loves Jesus. He's a good man. Not perfect, of course, but a good man. He's got a lot of practical wisdom too. He makes things happen.
Tim,
I have followed you closely for some time and read most, if not all, of what you have written in regards to Rick Warren. I think you have always been fair. I appreciate the checking of yourself in this situation to make sure that you are treating a brother in Christ, especially a pastor, fairly. I also believe with Rick Warren that it is more than just critiquing a philosophy of ministry or, as you put it, seeing a few Scriptures differently. I think the MAJOR issue is his communication of the Gospel, which also seems to be your major concern. I think his communication of the gospel is even more than just coming up short. I think it is missing the mark of the NT Gospel and therefore could be considered an irresponsible presentation. It seems he is turning more and more into a social Gospel and his presentation also seems to be getting worse. His Christmas book was the worse yet. In the announcement of his new book in the regards of Hope, he says that he waited until there was something to say. And what motivates him, he says, is the fact of the need for hope in the midst of the economic uncertainty and that many people need hope right now. That seems incredibly shallow motivation for a pastor bringing people hope.
I think we live in dangerous times where the Gospel is eroding right before our eyes. I think you are right with the question in regards to what Edwards would think. I believe he would terribly despise the Gospel that Rick Warren preaches.... or at least what he emphasizes about the Gospel. And maybe that is the problem: he chooses to emphasize certain things and in turn leaves some of the most important truths out. But does that then cease to be the Gospel? These are questions we must ask boldly but humbly. In the end, there is something greater at stake here. I commend you for being careful about being too harsh with someone and needing to consider that they are a brother in Christ when critiquing them. I also want to encourage you to not allow having personal contact with someone to cause you to hedge about boldly saying something that may desperately need to be said.
Thanks again for all your thought-provoking and God-centered input into the Christian community!
In His Grace,
Tom Buck
Tim,
I thought I would give a link for readers to see one of the points you referenced in your article.
http://saddlebackfamily.com/blogs/newsandviews/index.html?contentID=2085
This is incredible! It is this sort of thing does more to destroy biblical Christianity than just about anything else. It doesn't matter who he reads or what he says - this sort of practice hurts both people and the cause of Christ.
Your brother,Mason
I wonder if Pastor Rick Warren would update Jonathan Edwards famous sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" and deliver it to his Saddleback Church.
That would be rather interesting, don't you think?
Regarding whether or not it is fair to evaluate and potentially criticize Warren, I think James 3:1 comes into play. I think that you have been quite level-headed over the years and quite fair. Keep up the good work.
This is a well-written, humble self-critique and I am so glad I read your blog. You handled this situation very well. I guess this is easy for me to say since I agree with you regarding Warren, and since I'll never meet the man.
This actually happened to me too. I did a fairly scathing review of an operating system called Ubuntu Christian Edition. Well...the developer wrote on my blog to challenge some of the things I said! I felt like a complete idiot of course, and the situation showed me that I'd be better of humbling myself lest I be further humbled. The man and I have become friends, but it was a good lesson in humility.
I don't think Jonathan Edwards would be too pleased with Rick Warren and his ministry. And I'm sure he would confront him face to face.Warren has caused alot of damage to the evangelical church. It's as equally concerning that he can freely speak at Islamic conferences and be well received by them.
Stay strong Tim!
"never criticize what God is blessing."
Wow...that would've definitely come to a surprise for ol' Amos. I guess we need a definition of terms, no?
Thanks for this post, Tim. As one who has just begun to read & review books for some publishers, this is a healthy and timely reminder to me that the authors are real people. They don't mean ill of others or of the Lord. They, like us (sorry, mostly like me) are simul justus et peccatur. There have been two books I've received, one which I recently reviewed
and another which I'll be "blog touring" the first week of October. both of these books I've found a great disagreement with. The latter even had me quite angry with such poor handling of the Scriptures and an abysmal presentation of Christ's atonement. But your post today will serve as a reminder that they too are pilgrim's along the narrow way, heading in the same direction I'm heading. I only hope they don't stand too close when God examines my life and works and points out ingratitude and ungracious words in the review of their works.
Mason,Thank you for that link. Unbelievable.
Tim,
Do you ever find yourself reading someone’s post and think “Yes!” You inspire people even while you correct and disagree. This post inspires me for many reasons. Thanks for the example, the quality treatment you show others while steadfastly holding up His banner of truth with a rigid and unyielding outstretched arm.
I’m reading three books intermittently. One of these is John MacArthur’s The Jesus You Can’t Ignore. There’s an unusual amount of sensitivity out there when it comes to religion – we are being taught by many to show kindness, even a deaf ear to faltering and erroneous Christian beliefs, while sacrificing the Truth of God, the only power that saves mankind.
I am not surprised you have such a wide platform, Tim. May God bless you with it always.
Good post. I think you've tried to be as fair and objective and gracious as possible. God knows we all need to mature in our ability to speak the truth in love.
My main problem with Warren is as you said Tim, is his misuse of scripture within its context and his softness concerning the gospel.
The fact is when you have been so public with your message and its mass distribution , we need to be concerned if the message being taught is even slightly off . For I agree with Dr.James White when he says ,what you win them with is what you win them to. For now those in his camp are still fairly solid but what of the next generation. I wonder where it will lead.
I will not line up behind those who say we cannot be critical of the message . Yes we should stay away from personal attacks but the theology and doctrine need to be assessed. Can you see a Luther,Calvin,Knox or Spurgeon silent , I think not. Plus just because something seems to be working , so what . It does not mean its correct. Look at Charles Finney . The revivals under him looked promising but it led to erosion of sound theology and rise of semi-peligiansm in America.
My home church is in love with all things Saddleback . We are currently going through 40 days of love in small groups which I have decided not to go.
Warren and Hybels are troubling to me for I see way too much pragmatism . I think your reviews of Warren in the past were fair and true . Theology does matter and in the long run I fear for what is being laid down for the next generation to take hold of.
Fair statements but perhaps a few other issues would have been just as important to bring up.Warren's position on inclusivism - (people are saved without actually believing in Jesus) which was on the Saddleback site for a while until a critique became public and the website got scrubbed.Warren\s endorsement of TM, contemplative prayer and his long time connection with panentheist Leonard Sweet, so called Christian futurist.Warren's words to the Davos Economic summit about how God just wants people to be themselves. The more I watched that video the worse that message got. Unbelievable.Warren's presentation to the Rabbis in Los Angeles a few years ago where not only does he not take the opportunity to share the Gospel in any way, fashion, form, but as one attendee gushed out "It was great - he did his whole Purpose driven presentation and didn't mention the name of Jesus once". (I believe that is a word for word quote from the LA Times). Tells us a lot - like Finney (whose techniques are much more a model for Warren seemingly than anything Edwards ever said) you don't even need the Lord to make the program work. Sad if not so evil.Just a few thoughts to throw into the mix.Bill
Thank you for posting this Tim. Your humility and discernment challenge me everytime I read your blog.
I always appreciate your honesty and humbleness.
My main concern with Rick Warren, besides those that you mentioned, is his apparent ties to the emergent church movement. This seems to be hugely ignored among evangelical Christians today. He teaches Rob Bell in his church. He does forwards in books for Dan Kimball. He is even quoted as saying that if his church wasn't as hugely successful as it is, he would be going to Erwin Mcmanus' church.
This should raise huge red flags to discerning individuals.
thanks for not giving up your views after meeting with Rick. many people are swayed by celebrity and personality and a desire to please others. I think you've been fair with Rick and your concerns are very legitimate. "sticking to your guns" while continuing to evaluate that you do so honestly and with humility is well worth commending. thanks.
Coincidentally, I read 1 Thessalonians chapter 2 before reading this article. It is a scary thing to be critical of anyone, because we will each receive the same measure we use.
But as I read 1 Thes. 2, I compared myself (a layman) to Paul and his dedicated love for being completely honest about the truth. Every pastor, teacher or preacher should compare themselves to Paul here, and then compare men like Rick Warren.
From what some of those above said about Rick Warren, it seems that he may be on the opposite side of Paul here.
Tim:Fair, dispassionate, even-handed, kind, and courteous. Excellent and always a Biblical set of duties.On the other hand, Rev. Warren's Gospel is abbreviated to the point of non-conformity to the pattern and argument of Romans and Galatians. He is dangerous.Philip
1 Thessalonians 2 link
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/printerFriendly.cfm?b=1Th&c=2&t=esvp
Tim have you followed that link Mason posted in #4? I know Rick Warren is a person and claims to be a Christian, but his misunderstanding of the Gospel is the sort of thing that makes him a dangerous weapon in the hands of the enemy. How many think the sort of thing he is calling for at that link is true salvation and will no longer seek God?
Tim:
Warren has refused to answer whether or not Christianity is exclusively true (on Larry King) and he clearly doesn't present the gospel in its completeness.
It's very curteous of you to speak of the amicable meeting you had, but did you challenge and exhort Warren to correct his errors?
While no fan of Warren's, I greatly appreciate your humility, self-examination, and commitment to future balance. There are those (some in significant power) who will see such an attitude as weakness or lack of boldness or some other such drek, and will seek to dissuade you of your perspective. Frankly, I'm surprised that they haven't commented yet, but I suspect they will. Please do not allow men to take up the mantle of the Holy Spirit.
What about the lost souls at Saddleback who are lead to believe they have heard the Gospel, when in fact they have not. I do not believe we should hurl personal assaults and insults, but we are called to call out wrong doctrine. We are talking about eternity, we are talking about people's souls. Rick Warren may have all the good intentions in the world, but if his preaching lets someone walk away from church with a false belief in their salvation, then he needs to be corrected. We can not allow men who claim to be "dividers of the Word", but present a partial Gospel, to claim they preach the Word of Jesus Christ. Did you sit down, with a Bible, and show Warren his errors and the dire consequences of what he preachers? Does he understand that his teaching sits outside the FULL teaching of Jesus Christ? Does he understand the cost, the souls of men and women, that comes from his incomplete teaching? Does he know his preaching denies God the proper Glory He deserves? Someone please tell him. How awesome would it be if Rick Warren would go out and preach the FULL Gospel!! What a platform he would have.
Tim,
Great post! I really appreciate your "self critique". Personally, I think you have been totally fair in your assessment of Warren. If anything, I think you could have been more critical, not less, but that's just me.
Speaking of being critical, the 4. comment by Mason provides a link to a past Saddleback event... wow... as I read through the list of "reasons to join" I honestly expected it to end with something like, "No. 10 You'll get a free 13" color t.v. or a vegamatic or a set of shamwow towels". What a joke. Thanks for posting that link Mason. I hope people here check it out.
Tim,
Fairly early in my Christian walk, back when "The Purpose Driven Life" was being read by all those around me, I did a Google search on it and found you. For that reason, I am thankful for the book. Since then I have learned much from you (as you know from a handful of emails over the years). I've learned discernment and grace from you, Tim. You think critically and communicate gracefully. This post was yet another example of both.
With abundant gratitude,Susan
Thank you for your insight, Tim.Upon reading this, Mat. 7:15 comes to mind.Nice man- neglecting the gospel message.No mention of sin, the sinner, God's wrath, nor repentant faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior.Pastor Bob DeWaay (of Critical Issues Commentary) confronted Warren not too long ago. He presented a commentary on this:http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:M_pscQ936tcJ:cicministry.org/commentary/worldview0034.pdf+warren&hl=en&gl=us
Rick Warren has been warned and urged to repent and turn back to preaching the gospel message of repentant faith in Jesus. (2 Cr. 5:21, Mark 1:15)So far there seems to be no change in his message of omission.- (Rom. 10:17)
Earthly methods, tactics, and the signature on Tony Blair's Faith Foundation (Interfaith) advisory speak volumes about Mr. Warren:http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/about-us/who-we-are/advisory-council.html
2 Cr. 6:14 and Eph. 5:8
Thank you for your boldness in Jesus, Tim. Jude 3.
Tim,I'm kind of blown away by how these events transpired. No coincidences with God. Right! I attempted to follow you, tim, on twitter but nothing happened I got no tweets you must have blocked me I'll attempt again and see.Mike
For those of you asking if Tim took the time to rebuke Warren or show him the error of the ways, I urge you to think about what you're asking. Do you really think that was the time and place for that? Do you really think that Rick Warren was going to listen to Tim exposit from his ESV and then say, "Oh you know what? You're right and I never thought of it that way!" and then exclaim "what have I done?" like the Colonel at the end of Bridge On the River Kwai?
Also, do you think that you would have done that? Put yourself in his place. Can you really see yourself doing that? Maybe you have a lot more chutzpah than I do, but I don't think I could bring myself to do it, nor do I think it would matter. Do you really think that he has not read the Bible cover-to-cover several times?
Rick Warren has made an intentional decision to do his ministry the way he thinks best glorifies the Lord. He has had much more powerful and influential detractors than Tim Challies (no offense, Tim) over the years. I don't agree with some of the things he does, but I'm not sure that the time when I just met someone is when I would go into a systematic presentation of the errors of his ways when I'm in the giant complex that his ministry created.
Jason,
I don't know..you may be right that it wouldn't have mattered to Rick Warren had Tim corrected him with scripture during their meeting. After all, the gospel is foolishness to the perishing and no one can understand and be convicted to believe it unless the Spirit of God inspires him or her to do so.
I think the fact that Tim came home after having met the guy and is still unflinching in his expositories on Warren's false gospel speaks for itself. Tim has a wide audience...Warren knows where Tim stands already...
But, I would never discourage Christians from taking the opportunity to speak the truth whenever or wherever, when a lie is being upheld as good. Speaking the truth in love always is in God's fashion. This ought to be the trademark of all Christians - whether in high or low places. (Isaiah 52:7)
Tim,
I appreciate all you have written in this post; even what you chose not to write. You did not make this a post about the details of the conversation you had with Warrren, which some celebrity hounds tend to do. You didn't size him up. You first evaluated yourself and your former actions, then you proceded to check yourself throughout the experience. It is a temptation to entertain with the details when we meet well-known Christian leaders . You have stood by your convictions while being amicable. That is very admirable.TBH
Tim,As someone who battles a sharp and critical tongue, your writing really models for me what humble, careful, biblically-loyal speech should be. And this particular piece should remind any of us who blog or speak about possible false teaching or bad doctrine, that behind those ideas are people who are made in God's image. We shouldn't, as Sinclair Ferguson spoke from James at last year's Desiring God conference, step on their faces with our words, either in print or in person.
Oh Tim -- this is really the first time you thought of Rick Warren as a real person? That's an interesting story, and one which many people may receive as an avenue toward conviction, but anyone who follows your blogging knows you're far more fair than critical, and far more gracious than stinging. If the worst ever done to the pastor of Saddleback was you reviews of his work, I can't imagine he's be as practiced with critics as you have witnessed him to be.
Rick Warren has a big church, and if you walk around American evangelidom long enough, you'll find that many people think they know him personally and they like him. I say good for him. Let's get past that -- which is simply admitting he's a charismatic person -- and ask ourselves: are the pastors who are /really like him/ with churches /really like his/ doing the Gospel or the church any favors? Do they adorn the Gospel -- or have they in fact domesticated the Gospel?
That is a serious and sober question, and it is hardly unfair or cruel. You could ask it, and your answer would be worth hearing.
Tim,Your commentary about how you came to start thinking of Rick Warren as a real person was to me a bit of a stretch. Does this mean that you are going to try to reconcile how nice a fellow Rick is with his neglecting the real gospel? I'm not saying it was wrong to meet the man or even have a long discussion with him, but was it a wise thing to do? That is really the issue. The Purpose Driven Church model has done more damage to the visible Church than we can actually calculate with our finite minds, but I assure you that God knows and if Rick's new book is as biblically shallow as the Purpose Driven Life with the misuse of scripture to back nebulous points then I can't wait for someone like Bob DeWaay's review of it. Of course those who have been sucked in by Rick's persona will think that Bob and the rest of us who will agree with him are just being mean. No, we are standing firm on the solid rock of Biblical truth and the solid foundation of the Church's Chief Cornerstone instead of the mere words of a man like Rick Warren.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
You are exactly correct, Mike. Don't drink the Warren Kool-aid.We don't hold men in high regard but the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. When men run around neglecting to preach to people that they are sinners,.. yes, SINNERS!- in desperate need of salvation (through REPENTANCE and BELIEF) found ONLY in Jesus Christ who died on the cross .. you have no gospel at all.
The message is missing everything. 'might as well listen to the Dalai Lama!
Believers are told to contend for the faith earnestly. Not contend for a human!
Don't drink the Warren Koolaid and I urge everyone who reads here to view the link regarding the Biblical confrontation Pastor Dewaay had with Mr. Warren. (see link at post 27)
Don't drink the Warren Kool-aid.
OK, people, we all know how evil Rick warren is. (That's what we call hyperbole, by the way, with a little sarcasm. Don't flip out over it.) Now maybe some of you want to go back, read the post again (or maybe for the first time?), try not to miss the point, and relax. While you're at it, you could read Tim's reviews of Warren's books. Call off the watchbloggers, there's no kool-aid drinking going on here.
Tim, Thanks for your honesty and humility. We could all use more of it in our lives.
Tim:
I have to be honest with you. I have met a ton of Muslims, Mormons, Hindus, Jehovah's Witnesses, and oneness Pentecostals in my life that were the nicest, most loving people that you would ever meet, people of great personal and moral character, and people who were absolutely committed to living their faith without contradiction. But you know what? Despite all of their merits, which in not a few cases exceeded my own personal merit, they were still Muslims, Hindus, Jehovah's Witnesses, and oneness Pentecostals.
Speaking the truth in love has two parts that are of equal importance. The "in love" part is very important. But "THE TRUTH" part is just as important. You say that you want to be fair to Warren. But what about being fair to God?
Rick Warren preaches a false gospel that presents a false Jesus Christ. Rick Warren promotes New Age teachings. Rick Warren is a leader in the ecumenism/interfaith movement, to the point of even sharing his "church growth techniques" with Mormons. And yes, Rick Warren is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations with all that entails.
When investigating the Rick Warren issue, I notice two things. First, by virtue of being Southern Baptist, he gets far more leeway than what would be given to someone who was Pentecostal or a member of a mainline (meaning generally liberal) denomination. It is similar to how so many people are determined to defend Mark Driscoll's language just because he is Reformed.
Second, many people find it difficult to criticize him because he is by all accounts very nice, personable, generous and sincere. So ... if he were more unrefined and abrasive, would it be easier to talk about his doctrinal problems and ministry decisions? Even more to the point: is a theologically suspect charmer to be preferred to a person with a deeply flawed personality (or just bad social skills) but exhibits right doctrine and practice? I myself wonder if Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Paul, Peter, and Jesus Christ Himself were often not too pleasant to be around.
Have we forgotten that Jesus Christ drove people out of the temple with whips? Or Paul's conflicts with the Corinthian church, how wrote of delivering people to Satan, and even his conflicts with Barnabas/John Mark and his withstanding Peter? Or how Peter dealt with Simon Magus and Ananais and Sapphira?
Now of course, I am not going to reject the truths of scripture when it comes to such issues as growing in grace, charity, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Still, Christians are not going to be always nice, and not all nice people are Christians. Finally, Rick Warren joined the Council on Foreign Relations and acted as apologists for the governments of Syria and North Korea (knowing full well how these regimes treat Christians) by choice. It has nothing to do with his not being "a small town pastor."
So I would say that while you are considering whether you are being fair to Rick Warren, think about the North Korean and Syrian regimes that Warren was acting as a publicist for and how fair they are to your Christian fellow servants.
Tim, Good post and it was great meeting and talking with you at CWC.
I just finished the Francis Schaeffer bio handed out the conference. As a long admirer of Schaeffer it was good to read him as both human and faulty (just another brilliant sinner like the rest of us). So your empathy for Rick Warren and your own desire to check yourself should be commended. Gracious Reform is what is needed.
My only caution is to remember something I think Schaeffer said, "Truth without love is ugly and love without truth is compromise". So, balance is key. Godly correction is just as loving and sometimes more loving than kind words, but I think you already know this.
Providence!Dan
Dear Tim, This post is why I read you and recommend your blog to everyone I know. God Bless!
I must say I find this quite disturbing.
I cannot think of anyone who has done more damage to the professing church in the West than Rick Warren.
Do we really hold the Name of Christ with such low esteem that one can turn a blind eye to the blasphemy this type of false Christianity that Warren and his "another gospel" produces. Has the way suddenly become wide? Or is Warren still a false and dangerous teacher?
2 Tim 3:5 "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof"
Anyone interested in the hundreds of families who have been dismembered by Rick Warren wanna-be's driven by pulpit envy following Warren's mantra Throw out the resisters?
Rick Warren has been rebuked and called upon to repent...with no response. Very few are willing to treat him like a tax collector.
Thank you for such a honest post. I am not a fan of saddleback, but loved reading your thoughts and was challenged by them.
Job, Kevin, Jim, well said, we need to stop embracing any professing Christian just because they speak the lingo well, are followed by a sincere crowd, and seem so loving, when in fact they are wolves. Wolves aren't just the Benny Hins and Phelps, they are the Warrens and the Olsteens and anyone else propagating a false gospel.
From what God has revealed of Christ in scripture, I believe Saddleback "church" would be one of the first Jesus would enter with whip in hand. Woe to you Rick Warren.
Here is a fair and biblically based blogpost on what is wrong with Rick Warrens gospel.http://thelawmanchronicles.blogspot.com/2009/08/so-whats-your-problem-with-rick-warren.html
Wonderfully written, humble, honest, sound. It's one of the reasons I come here often. Just reading your words reminds me to think before speaking - as you so rightly said: we read the same works and come to a dfferent understanding. I'm afraid I sometimes adopt the attitude of the Pharisees. I stand convicted.