Thanks, Tim, for a good article. One thought regarding just a sentence or two — just for thinking upon…

If you consider that the proper administration of the ordinances would actually include/presuppose church discipline, then you can actually characterize a true church by two defining marks — preaching of the gospel and the proper administration of the ordinances. I’d also like to point out that this is not a Reformed/Protestant position exclusively. Several of the more biblical groups within what is often called the “Anabaptists” held this same position before the Protestant Reformation.

Interesting timing - I was just making preparations for a meeting with an elder from our current church tonight as we are in the process of having our membership transferred to a new church. This process would have been a lot less painful had our reasons fallen under the “must” category. However, we feel we need to leave as the church is getting more and more “milky” and less solid food is offered as time goes on. It’s amazing when you get out there and start looking for a solid, Biblical church how little of it there is, even in a once-conservative community like ours!! Very discouraging!

As a pastor, I couldn’t agree more with the “You must leave” section, and I couldn’t disagree more with the “You may leave” section.

Nearly everything in the “may” section is self-centered. Leaving a church is the easy way out in most of these situations, and you’re giving people excuses to do so, Tim. At the very least it would have been appropriate for you to give some healthier alternatives to leaving for those considering leaving because of your “may” reasons.

Isn’t there a call on lay people to encourage and even help preachers who aren’t better teachers? Particularly with the massive amount of good audio and print resources available for further study and spiritual nourishment available now. No one with access to a computer or library should be starving for good teaching. I live in the Twin Cities and I know of dozens of people both in my church and other churches who have left because “John Piper is down the road.” Is this healthy in your view? Is Bethlehem the only church in town that people should really feel compelled to stay at, since that’s probably the best teaching in town? I doubt John would say that.

I’ve never heard of a situation where a person really couldn’t “use their gifts” in a church. I know of plenty of situations where people have said, “I can’t use my gifts here,” but it’s almost always a case in which if they had said to a pastor or elder, “I have the gift of ______. How could I use it here?” there would have been an answer. The problem is that people don’t ask.

I agree with the location “may.” It’s best to serve where you live. I don’t think it’s healthy for people to drive 45 minutes across town because they desire John Piper’s “better teaching,” when they’re clearly not going to be invested in that church and that community throughout the week.

I’m uneasy with the “may” regarding children, but I can’t articulate quite why.

All of that to say, Tim, I think your “may” section really needs more reflection or at least some rewording or caution, brother.

Thank you for sharing that list. People should read it closer before making a decision to leave. Too many people look for the perfect church and there are none.

We left our first church after 15 years because of two ugly church splits in five years, forcing out both pastors. I found nothing in either to discipline, they were both biblical. There was a core group in the church wanting to control everything. The second split occurred in a Sunday service. After 15 years we just walked out and never looked back. It was impossible to worship there anymore. Not sure where this fits in on your must list.

We left our second church after another 15 years because I relocated to another city for a new job. A must, not your may list.

We left our last church after two years where we now live. It was biblical, but we felt uncomfortable there. We were at a position to either accept membership or search for another church. We are still friends with several people there.

We have been at our new church 3 years and members for two. We have no desire to ever leave until the Lord calls us somewhere, which we feel He is starting to.

Good article, Tim. I think that the list you provided — especially the “may leave” list can be helpful when people consider joining a particular church. If we’ll weigh the preference items on the front end (counting the cost before building), they won’t be as likely to become an issue down the road.

This said, I do realize that situations can change. We currently drive 45 minutes to church in order to be involved with a biblical body. We are not as involved as we would like to be, and would welcome a solid, like-minded church in our community.

I’m inclined to agree with B.C. McWhite (#6). Being permitted to leave the church because I desire a church with “better teaching” sends me on a wild goose chase to find the church with the most eloquent speaker, and perhaps causes me to miss out on true and lasting community. And theoretically, won’t there always be another church somewhere with better teaching? Unless you are at THE church that has objectively THE best teaching, you can always use this as a reason to leave your church.

I recognize, of course, that Tim has also called us to caution and consideration in making the choice to leave. But I might actually have put this particular reason under a “bad reason” to leave, or at least under a list of “reasons that aren’t as good as you think they are.” If a pastor is faithfully and diligently preaching the Bible, even if he’s not the most engaging speaker or gifted expositor in the city, surely there is a responsibility on the part of that church’s membership to support and encourage his ministry by remaining under it.

A better speaker is never a good reason and I don’t think Tim even came close to suggesting that. Good teaching doesnt always mean entertaining teaching

David, www.RedLetterBelievers.com, “Salt and Light”

Kyle, Tim specifically said that the permission to leave a church for “better teaching” was NOT supposed to be the pursuit of a better preacher, but the pursuit of an overall better understanding of doctrine. It was right there in the same paragraph with the rest of it.

I’d just add a caveat, but not really a criticism, of the “tolerating error” one. This should not be a license to stomp out the door when you hear something you disagree with, even something seriously wrong. There should be a patient process of bringing it to the attention of the appropriate people, and an effort to persuade them of your position if there is resistance. If there is a lower-level doctrinal disagreement, and the leadership is honestly persuaded that it is not error, that is different from a cavalier attitude toward teaching or a willingness to let certain people have a platform because of their “giftedness” regardless of their soundness. If the leadership attitude is cavalier or biased in those ways, that’s probably warrant for leaving, If it’s a disagreement over whether it’s really “error” or not, then you probably have to decide whether it fits into “you must leave” reason #1, or not.

We recently left a church for reasons that completely fell under the “may” category. All the dissentors to this category above have missed the mark in their objections in relation to our case.

For instance, my wife and I did not leave because of “self-centeredness”.

We are both well-studied, in love with Scripture and reformed in our worldview. Of course we believe the reformed view of Scripture is the correct one (if we didn’t, we’d hold another view and believe that view was correct).

The problem is, as we slowly and carefully came to this conclusion, we were attending a church that was not reformed in its theology or worldview. While we attended that church, we had our first two children. As our oldest began to understand the things we were teaching during home Bible study and family worship, a light suddenly went off - our church did not teach the same things we were teaching our children —There was a huge disconnect —That’s a big problem.

The church’s teaching wasn’t changing.

So we had our choices - stay, and continue to provide our children with conflicting messages, or seek out a church that promulgated (from our best understanding) the correct, appropriate and consistent teaching of Scripture. We chose the latter. - That’s not leaving for selfish reasons. That’s leaving because of a high view of God’s Word and its consistent teaching in your home - however, it falls under the “better teaching” category - and rightfully so.

A “more convenient location” shouldn’t be assumed to mean “more convenient for me to roll out of bed later on a Sunday morning.” It could mean things like:

more convenient for me to minister to other members who live in that area,more convenient for me to be involved in more church-related activitiesmore convenient for me to show up more than an hour a week.

“More convenient” could carry the connotation of “I don’t want to put in any effort,” but it could simply mean “enables me to do more of what I’m supposed to be doing, without a lot of wasted time getting there to do it, or so much wasted time that I simply can’t manage as much of it.” And I think that’s what Tim means by it.

Great post! I have been praying and struggling with leaving my church for almost 3 years now. I am convinced the Lord will make it known when if ever I am to leave. Until then I will continue to pray for my leaders, the people and try to humbly serve the best I can.

If one does his due diligence, and the church does her diligence as well, the chances of one leaving their church (for reasons other than moving) should be profoundly slim.

They should have not just joined because of a good children’s program (and all other preferential stuff in the “may” section). They should have joined for much more profound reasons and seen it more as a marriage, which cannot be dissolved on a whim (even a thoughtful, extended whim). And the church should help prospective members see this - if a church doesn’t, what dose that say about how they view membership?

The “my gifts are not being used and appreciated here” seems uncharacteristic of Tim. That sounds so self-centered - and, pastors, how many times have you been given that reason why someone is leaving your church when you and everyone else in the church knows (and has gently told) the individual that they are gifted in other areas? (“I SING or I LEAVE!” I was once told as a brand new pastor by someone who did a better job embarrassing themselves than singing).

In the end, I think there are clear biblical reasons separate yourself from a church (the “must” list?) But I think it is unhelpful and, frankly, unbiblical to begin listing why we “may” leave a church. This is like “no-fault divorce.” Any departure should be viewed as a terribly sad, horribly tragic tearing apart of the body, and I just don’t think preferences should be an issue, whatsoever.

That said, I do not want to downplay the difficulty when one becomes uneasy with their church. “False teacher” is not as black-and-white as we’d like to think. Much prayer and study need to go into such a decision - even when one believes their reasoning to be biblical.

But other than moving away, there is nothing in Scripture that even hints that we can derive a “may leave the church” list, no matter how thoughtful it may be. I just don’t see how coming up with such a list benefits the kingdom.

My husband and I are in the process of leaving a large well-known church in the Twin Cities for a very small PCA church plant for several reasons, not the least of which is that the larger church struggles (in our experience) to live out the meaning of biblical community and true pastoral care. These seem to us to be good reasons to move on to a church that is seeking to be a community to each other and to newcomers.

I don’t know what’s a better reason to leave my church: that they moved further away from where I live or that the pastor insists on quoting “Blue Like Jazz” during a sermon.

I’m also concerned about the “may leave” list. If the Bible speaks of the local church as a family with a Father and brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers (and it does), am I free to leave my family because I found a church that pleases me more or meets my needs? Is it really God’s will for me to be rating my pastor’s teaching ability and leave my church family when a more gifted preacher comes into town? Where does the Bible teach that explicitly or implicitly? Asking “how does this church meet my needs?” is self-worship and consumerist—it’s not being obedient to God’s command to “count others more significant than yourselves.” Phil. 2:3. I would ask you to re-think this.

Hi Tim —

I found your post interesting. I stipulate that all your “must leave” conditions are the grossest error.

Given that the Bible agrees with you about those gross errors, I think you’re going to have a hard time convincing me (maybe others; I think some people don’t want to discuss this) that the Bible says these are “must-leave situations.

For example, Gal 1:7-9 does in fact say, “even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.” Those who teach false doctrine should be accursed, yes? But does that mean “you abandon the church body to this person or these people”? Or does it mean “let the church body abandon them” — that is: drive them out? It seems to me to be the latter.

Moreover, in Galatians, Paul does not give instructions for the Galatians to leave or splinter the body — he rather says explicitly:

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. 5For each will have to bear his own load. 6 One who is taught the word must share all good things with the one who teaches. 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. 10So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

That’s an odd way to end a letter in which you will interpret that the church should split over bad leadership.

Frank you said “But does that mean you abandon the church body to this person or these people..Or does it mean “let the church body abandon them”What do you do when the Pastor is sliding into the emergent stream and the body is totally oblivious? What do you do when the pastor quotes heretics and apostates and even gives a teaching from the pulpit from an apostate because he liked what he had to say?What do you do when you discuss this with the pastor and he remains closed and says his opinion is formed and this is the direction he is taking? What do you do when week after week you do not hear the gospel but stories?How does one remain under those circumstances?

Well, Anon, instead of leaving, if he’s preaching apostasy, you could try to get rid of the pastor. That opens up a massive can of worms, considering how many pastors have been kicked out for the wrong reasons. However, if we’re going to talk about leaving churches, at some point we have to talk about it (as well as the question of when a pastor should leave a church). Of course, the winnable war question applies here as well.

BTW, Molly Ivins told an anecdote about a church of 7 people (in Texas, I think) who then had a doctrinal split. That would be sad if it weren’t funny, and vice versa.

BTW, my comment was directed to the 8:41am anon, not the 9:29 one.

Our family recently left a congregation where the pastor had become angry and bullying from the pulpit. When he was preaching the Gospel, he was spot on, but it was hard to believe anything he said knowing that away from the pulpit he was angry, bitter, and manipulative. In recent months it seemed his mantra had had become “Teamwork = everyone doing what I SAY!” The sermons went from being Gospel-centered to condemning of anyone who dared have a differing opinion than his own.

He became so over-bearing, he appointed himself to nearly every ministry/committee, insisting things be done according to his likes/opinion. Everything from the font used on the bulletins to the you-name-it required his stamp of approval, regardless of his level of knowledge or expertise in that area.

In the past 6 to 8 months, over 175 people of approximately 300 attenders have left that congregation. Sadly the congregation is one probably many commentors here would recognize. I have this preacher say on multiple occasions: “I’ve been known to grow a church of 1000 to one of about 300.” He’s certainly been successful at his current location.

Absolutely great post Tim! My family and I have been praying for some time regarding to leave our church or continue pouring ourselves out in hopes of turning it around.

Frank, you really bring some great truth to this post. I am trying hard to understand what I am to do biblically in our church. When you comment regarding Gal 1 and “drive them out”. In my case the “them” is mainly my pastor.

I know every situation is unique, but I was hoping you could elaborate some on how a church body “drives out” a pastor biblically? How do you drive him out and yet not do nothing out of selfish ambition, that is, not to get people on your side? I understand the concept that the church is a body of believers and that they are the ones that drive the accursed man out. Just not sure how it can be done with out forming sides.

How do you approach this if it’s the pastor and many are enamored with him. He really works “the crowd” well into getting them to think he’s something that he is not. I struggle to hold him in deepest respect and even trusting what comes out of his mouth. When I have questioned him about anything, he gets very defensive and says snide remarks or then the next week in the sermon blasts me (doesn’t use my name, but the situation is obvious). I don’t want to leave because I love the body of believers there. But I can’t stomach the attitude by which our church conducts itself. Any suggestions?

The scriptures counsel us to NOT leave the church. “Forsake not the gathering of yourselves together as the manner of some is” The apostates left, not the believers.

Rules for doing this and doing that are fine when clearly based on the Word of God. The Word is living and trustworthy. But all who call themselves Christians should also know that there is no intermediary between them and God, except Jesus. We as fellow believers should be pointing each other back to Jesus as the final word, and not setting up rules to follow.

Rules are for those who do not have a living relationship with Jesus. Maybe believers on the whole are immature, because those of us who are mature have not pointed them back to Jesus. We havet advised them with rules to follow, instead of the person of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. When you find yourself advising believers with rules based on the Word, you risk setting yourself up as God.

Why not disciple believers with scripture and then tell them to go to Jesus with their questions? To grow up essentially by trusting more on their relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Its time to quit spoon feeding Christians, and enabling them to remain childish in their walk.