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Discernment Filter: Forgive Yourself
- 05/26/06
- 29
Spiritual discernment is a subject that has been much on my mind in recent weeks. I have been thinking a great deal about how I can become more discerning and how I can serve others in helping them understand the value of discernment as well as the practice of discernment. To that end I have been attempting to formulate a "discernment filter." I have been attempting to formulate a small set of rules through which I can pass a teaching or doctrine in order to discern whether or not it is consistent with Scripture.
Today I am going to make my first public attempt at passing a teaching through this filter. The teaching I would like to examine is "self-forgiveness."
Self-Forgiveness
A few days ago I purchased the newest album by Downhere, a band I quite like and have followed for some time now. It is a good album and I've enjoyed listening to it. There is one song, though, that got me thinking. The song is entitled "Forgive Yourself." I'll give you the lyrics so you can read them for yourself:
You keep laying down $100 bills On the counter of your untamed guilt And you'll keep paying out from your empty purse Until you feel you've satisfied your curse No one here is throwing stones But you have got to drop your own
Forgive yourself, forgive yourself Anyone who bears a scar wants to forget it Forgive yourself, forgive yourself Nothing ever frees you more than just believing That you've been forgiven, come out of the prison
Can you tell me how you spend every day Looking in the mirror of your shame And staring like a judge, you are ruling for yourself You tied a stone around your neck You're drowning in a past regret
Don't believe it's okay to be like this Don't believe you deserve to live like this 'Cause every part of you wants to know Just one reason why you should let go
Forgive yourself, forgive yourself Nothing ever frees you more than just believing Come out of the prison You've been delivered
The idea of self-forgiveness, which is clearly presented in this song, is one that I have come across in the past. But as I thought about this, I realized that I could think of no biblical proof to support it. And so I decided that this teaching could become a test for this discernment filter.
This filter has three steps, modelled after 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 which exhorts all Christians to "test everything; hold fast to what is good. Abstain from every form of evil." And so in this filter we first test, then abstain, and finally hold fast.
Test
We will first test this doctrine, studying the issue and holding it up against the truths of Scripture. We may seek the wisdom of other believers who, having been guided by Scripture and plain reason, have reached conclusions of their own. If possible, we will also seek the consensus of historic Christianity.
As we peer into Scripture, it becomes quickly apparent that "forgive yourself" is not biblical language. I have not found any place in Scripture where we are told to forgive ourselves, either in those word or even in concept. We are told to seek forgiveness from God and from our fellow man. We are told to extend forgiveness to those who have wronged us and release any bitterness we feel towards them. But I do not see that we are ever told to forgive ourselves.
Forgiveness is a constant, recurring theme in Scripture, so I will present only a few of the many verses dealing with it along with a brief comment for each:
- "How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered! How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit!" Psalm 32:1-2. The man is blessed whose sins have been forgiven by God.
- "Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions." Mark 11:25. We are to forgive each other so that God will continue to forgive us.
- "Bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you." Colossians 3:13. We are to forgive each other as a way of modelling the forgiveness God extends to us.
- "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9. When we confess our sins to God, He is faithful to forgive and cleanse us.
- "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" 1 John 2:1. When we sin, Jesus Christ stands as our advocate before the Judge.
In searching other resources, I was not able to find much material on this subject written by Bible-based, discerning authors. In fact, much of the material advocating forgiveness of oneself is written from the perspective of a New Age, pop-Christianity. It is the "Dr. Phil" brand of Christian psychology that tends to advocate the view that we need to forgive ourselves. One discerning leader who has written on this subject, though only briefly, is John MacArthur. He writes the following:
I realize there are some who teach that a kind of self-forgiveness is necessary. I find this nowhere in Scripture. I've met many people who claim to be unable to forgive themselves, but on careful examination this usually turns out to be a kind of sinful pride exacerbated by modern self-esteem philosophy. The person who complains about not being self-forgiving is often simply looking for flattering or consoling words from others as a way of salving the hurt that guilt has caused to their pride.
He also quotes Jay Adams who, in his book From Forgiven to Forgiving, wrote:
The problem is not self-forgiveness. Their expressed agony stems from the very fact that, in the worst way, they want to forgive themselves. They want to put it all behind them, they want to bury it once and for all...
The problem is that people who talk this way recognize something more needs to be done. Forgiveness is just the beginning; it clears away the guilt. They also recognize that they are still the same persons who did the wrong--that though they are forgiven, they have not changed. Without being able to articulate it, and using instead the jargon they have heard all around them, they are crying out for the change that will assure them they will never do anything like it again. When, as a counselor, I help them to deal with the problems in their lives that led to the wrong, in such a way that they lead a more biblical lifestyle, I then ask, "Are you still having trouble forgiving yourself?" Invariably, they say no.
Discernment, as the word is used in Scripture, implies that we are to "separate things from one another at their points of difference in order to distinguish them" (Jay Adams). The point of difference in our study seems to be in our understanding of who it is that we sin against. We must realize that, first and foremost, no matter who has been harmed by our sin and how many people have been affected by it, our sin is primarily sin against God. Many of those who advocate the view that we must forgive ourselves would have a low or non-existent understanding of the holiness of God. Thus, in their view, my sin is primarily against myself. They hold forth a selfish, self-centered view of sin which says "Against myself, myself only have I sinned." It seems to me, then, that self-forgiveness has roots buried more deeply in self-esteem and sinful, human-centered psychology than in Scripture.
While Scripture does not forbid self-forgiveness, it also does not require it. I would suggest, then, that we do not need to forgive ourself and nor should we make this our practice. If we struggle with guilt or shame, forgiving ourselves may be a temporary salve but it cannot bring the peace and healing we seek. We can only have true peace, lasting peace, by accepting God's forgiveness and allowing Him to remove the guilt of our transgression. This must be an act of God rather than an act of self.
Abstain
In this step we will determine what it is that we must avoid, now that we have determined that we are not required to forgive ourselves. We will substitute what is false for what is true.
It seems to me that the lesson here is that we must always remember and believe that we sin primarily against God. What we need to avoid is a man-centered approach to sin where we first ask "how have I harmed myself with this sin." Rather, we must turn to God and ask Him to forgive us, for our sin has been primarily against the Lord. We substitute self-forgiveness for true repentence before God and acceptance of His forgiveness.
Hold Fast
In this final step we implement the truths we have learned and seek to apply them to our lives. We will hold fast to the truths God has revealed and ask that He will help in the application of these truths.
As I have suggested, it seems to me that I do not need to forgive myself for my sin. Rather, I need to ask God's forgiveness and, having confessed and repented of my sin, I need to hold fast to God's promises that He has forgiven me. My primary responsibility is not to myself but to God. When I sin against another person or against myself, I primarily sin against God. Thus it is His forgiveness that I require. I can live without the forgiveness of men. I can live without self-forgiveness. But I cannot live without God's forgiveness. My responsibility and my privilege is to receive God's forgiveness, trusting that, if I confess, He is faithful and righteous to forgive me my sins and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness."
The application of these truths may be a deeply personal matter. I may need to change the way I ask God for forgiveness. I may need to extend greater effort in seeking the forgiveness of others. I may need to repent before God of taking His holiness so lightly that I could believe that my sin has been primarily against myself.
Conclusion
So there it is: my first attempt at passing something through this "discernment filter." I would be interested in your feedback (more on the process than this particular teaching).
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Comments (29)
Very Good Article. Very timely...very true. I'm going to add this to my "Thumbs Up" section where I'm attempting to place articles that turn us to God and away from ourselves.
If I might advertise here...
I listened to John McArthur's podcast "Tale of Two Sons" yesterday and it was great. He emphasized that the feast they enjoyed upon the prodigal's return was a celebration of the Father's grace. Isn't that good?
I would think that if we are consumed with trying to forgive ourselves after God has forgiven us then we are robbing God of the praise He deserves for placing the best robe on our shoulders, a ring on our finger and sandals on our feet.
Good post Tim!
Guilt & shame were dealt with at the cross. When we encounter it we are to run back there for the necessary calibration...this is where the power is.
It is alarming to elbow Christ out of the picture and practice self-dependence (forgiving self), self-authority...self-worship. It is this type of thinking that believers have been saved from.
btw, major props on the consecutive days of blogging (937!), that is amazing.
Thanks, Tim. I like your filter, and I particularly like today's example.
Evaluating self-forgiveness comes down to a question of essential doctrines: the holiness of God, the sinfulness of man, grace, and authority (among others). The problem with self-forgiveness is, as J.B. Phillips put it, "Your God is Too Small."
The critical questions that you have addressed so well are, "Against whom have we sinned?" and, "By what authority are we forgiven."
Tim, what you have done is a wonderful service to the body, demonstrating the process of discernment. A difficult task as there is also a contained within this a great dependence upon the Whole counsel of Scripture and the enabling work of the Holy Spirit. But what you have presented will help us.
Another "filter" to consider:
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Applied in this way: Does this teaching detract from the simplicity that is in Christ? Does it call us to some need to discover secret knowledge? For example the many 6 step, 12 step, etc teaching to lead to spiritual maturity or deliverance or the teachings that require us to research our ancestry to uncover sins of our great-great grandparents for which we must repent or renounce. Or the teachings that talk of dysfunctional instead of sin. This could apply to wide variety of modern teachers: Positivism of Peale or Schuller, deliverance concepts of Neil Anderson or Mark Bubeck, Self-Theories and legalisms of Bill Gothard taking us away from the power of the Gospel of Christ.
Hope this makes sense in such a short comment.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
sda
We can only have true peace, lasting peace, by accepting God's forgiveness and allowing Him to remove the guilt of our transgression. This must be an act of God rather than an act of self.
Amern!!
Bill
We can only have true peace, lasting peace, by accepting God's forgiveness and allowing Him to remove the guilt of our transgression. This must be an act of God rather than an act of self.
Amern!!
Bill
Two things came to mind in reading this.
1) How to counsel women who have had an abortion.
2) What my husbans said to me when we reconciled our marriage after an 18 month separation several years ago.
One of the prevalent counseling methods for women who have had an abortion is the "forgive yourself" method, which I strongly disagree with. As a woman that has had an abortion and has "tried" this method... It does not last. Why? Because of what you wrote: "Rather, we must turn to God and ask Him to forgive us, for our sin has been primarily against the Lord. We substitute self-forgiveness for true repentence before God and acceptance of His forgiveness." (excellent)
Regarding my marriage. I left my husband. I came back after 18 months for the kids thinking my marriage would not change and would continue to be miserable. However, my misery was not my marriage. It was that i was not a genuine believer. The Lord used my husband as an instrument of drawing me to Himself. When I pleaded for my husband to forgive me, he said, "How could I not forgive you as Christ forgave me." He in turn asked my forgiveness and then we both prayed for the Lord's forgiveness. Our marriage is now a beautiful picture of God's transforming power!!!
David Powlison from Christian Counseling and Education Foundation www.ccef.org puts this in the light that you have:
Notice, by the way, how the false analysis (Angry
at yourself? Forgive yourself.) led to a false gospel,
just as it did when we considered anger at God. In the
biblical scenario, there is no hint of “You are worth so
much because of creation, and Jesus’ love shows how
valuable you are, so you can feel OK about yourself.”
The truth is, creation and redemption don’t give us
much reason to feel good about ourselves. Our creation
was in the image of the God of glory. Yet look
how far we have fallen: “The hearts of the sons of men
are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts while
they live.”10 An honest look at our glory in creation
“stops every mouth... for all have sinned and fall
short of the glory of God.” Similarly, our redemption
was won in a way that displays how utterly bad and
helpless we are. The only good and worthy Man freely
died for ungodly, weak, sinful enemies. Those facts
hardly offer a reason for confident self-acceptance and
self-forgiveness! Grace, by definition, ruins selfworth.
The covert pride that inhabits “low selfesteem”
and “anger at myself” is not cured by misaffirming
me as valuable. The biblical gospel points us
to the worth of Jesus Christ, who redeemed the
unworthy and deservedly damned. How much better
is this real gospel, which defines our need for forgiveness
from God (not ourselves), and provides it, full
and free. People who embrace God’s grace become
truly happy, free of the need for props to their wobbly
self-concept. An accurate, biblical self-knowledge
destroys the supposed need for self-esteem. It produces
the only people on the planet with reasons for
confidence as they approach life.
The idea of forgiving yourself to resolve anger at
yourself actually panders to a core sin: it keeps people
living before the wrong eyes—their own."
"Anger Part 2: Three Lies about Anger and the Transforming Truth" The Journal of Biblical Counseling • Volume 14 • Number 2 • Winter 1996
Keep up the good work pointing to the power of the real gospel for real people with real sin!
Shawn
Tim,
Not to throw a damper on this praise fest for your discernment filter model...but then, isn't disagreement what makes the blog world go round?
My disagreement is maybe not so much with your filter, as with some of your reasoning concerning sin. A number of times you made the comment that when we sin, it is "primarily" sin against God...as if part of our sin is against another human being. My question is...when we sin isn't it ALWAYS against God, even if whatever it is we have done is directed or affects another person? Is there such a thing in Scripture as sinning against another person?
May I suggest that you put that premise through your discernment filter to see how it holds up to Scripture? Is there such a thing as sin against another human being, or...as David says, is ALL sin against God and God alone?
Ps. 51:4 -
Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge.
Granted, our sin may seriously hurt another human being...and may even be directed at another human being...but, isn't that sin still against God, though it may affect another person?
Just thought that may be another good one to put through your filter...
Brian,
Good thoughts. I don't have time to do a thorough job right now, but I am sure we could find Scriptures that speak about sinning against a fellow human being:
"If someone sins against a man, God will mediate for him, but if someone sins against the Lord, who can intercede for him?” But they would not listen to the voice of their father, for it was the will of the Lord to put them to death." (1 Sam 2:25)
"Let not the king sin against his servant David, because he has not sinned against you, and because his deeds have brought good to you." (1 Sam 19:4)
"If a man sins against his neighbor and is made to take an oath and comes and swears his oath before your altar in this house..." (1 Kings 8:31)
So yes, I think we can sin against another person, though ultimately our sin is against God and an act of rebellion towards Him.
Thanks for the passages, Tim.
"Thanks for the passages, Tim."
No problem. Maybe this weekend I'll give it a run through the filter and do it properly.
Piper's sermon on Charles Simeon comes to head
Before everyone decides to flame me, I'm a conservative Reformed Bible-believer with major disagreements with the seeker-sensitive and emergent crowds. Hope that helps my credibility. Oh yes, and Tim is a friend as well.
I also happen to have spent time with downhere last month and reviewed their album recently. I think a lot of people here are missing the point.
We can only have true peace, lasting peace, by accepting God's forgiveness
Exactly! If we ask for God's forgiveness, and then doubt that we are truly forgiven, we are sinning the sin of unbelief and imprisoning ourselves, which is why they wrote:
Nothing ever frees you more than just believing
That you've been forgiven, come out of the prison
You've been forgiven (by God, not yourself), but you have to believe it. They don't make self-forgiveness a replacement for--or priority over--God's forgiveness as some posters seem to think. The point of the song is that we have to forgive ourselves and not cling to our guilt. Believe that you've been forgiven! That is not an unbiblical message. I would refer everyone to Hebrews 12:1,
Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us.
Does the author of Hebrews believe that we neglect God and rely on ourselves to lay aside the encumbrance and sin? No! However, the author still says we can be entangled until we lay it aside ourselves. Please give downhere the same benefit as we'd give to the author of Hebrews, lest Holy Scripture fail the discernment test in Hebews 12:1 because there's is no mention of God's work in sanctification and there is mention of us laying aside sin and encumbrances.
I like your filter. The Bible, those you know who are mature spirtually, and the history of the Church are all essential for discerning each and every teaching which presents itself before us.
I remeber when i first heard of "Open Theology" through a friend in the church, and thought this is crazy, but it wasn't to him.
I went to my pastor, and I wrote to R. C. Sproul. I spoke with others in the church, and then read a couple books. And of course the Bible was my constnat companion, as I tried to discern if this teaching held any water.
It doesn't.
Forgiving yourself is wrong, and can be dangerous; as is the teaching to love yourself. There is much error in the Church concerning this.
Good topic to discuss.
Tim, I like your filter. I like this approach because it's simple and maybe the average evangelical Christian layman could grasp it and learn to use it on their own. First they have to be convinced that they have not been using biblical discernment and so have a lot of wrong ideas (like self forgiveness.)
Good job.
Randy said: Before everyone decides to flame me...
Gee Randy, we're not THAT bad! I happen to have been thinking precisely what you were. "Guilt" is the operative word in your posting. We suffer from guilt from our sins, and that is what we have to break free of. It isn't that we have to "forgive ourselves" - God has done quite a fine job of that Himself. You said you have to believe it., and that's correct. It's not "forgiving". It's "believing" and having faith that God has indeed forgiven. One must then repent of that sin and have the strength thru God to abstain from future sin.
----
bill
I'm not certain that all offenses against another are sin or that all need God's forgiveness in the same way.
Let me explain.
If I had accidentally dropped my son when he was an infant and he suffered a debilitating injury as a result that would affect him the rest of his life, did I sin? No.
Would that accident haunt me? Probably. Every time I saw my son, I would remember that one mistake and surely I would feel guilt, even considering the accident was not of sinful intent on my part.
That's only one example of the kind of issue that might need another response. I've known many people who have struggled with those kinds of issues. I once took my eye off the highway for what amounted to about three seconds to look my son in the eyes while answering a question he'd asked, and the driver ahead of me totally slammed on his brakes when he spotted a cop with a laser gun. I barely escaped plowing into his car. Either my son or I could have been gravely injured.
People have thousands of stories like that, some that happen every week. When there are consequences, what do we do?
The Bible is filled with images and symbols of receiving. If we understand those we know that many times we fail to receive because we fail to understand God's mercy. I think that this issue of "forgiving oneself" is the same as our willingness to receive from God. We can read the comforting passages in the Bible and use our minds to say, "Yes, that is true. I believe it." But sometimes it takes a long time for that to go from mental assent to our hearts.
The Bibles says this:
"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."
(Isaiah 55:10-11 ESV)
We understand the rain. It comes down and soaks right in. But what of the snow? It stays on top of the ground and does not penetrate until it melts. Then it brings life.
I believe that folks who go around with the kind of burden I describe often sit with God's good word like snow on their lives. They understand they should feel no guilt, but they still do. Our prayers should be that they experience that melting so that they can freely receive the mercy they need to move on.
Call that what you will. I doesn't change the fact that we sometimes need it.
DLE,
Good thoughts. Something to contemplate for sure.
One question arose in my mind. The father who dropped the boy, and the boy is crippled for life; should the father ask the boy for forgiveness? I don't know.
A discernment filter! What a useful tool!
An old saint once told me that discernment was the process of clearing away all distractions to the ultimate question of: "Who does it put on the throne?"
Thanks Tim, for reminding me to think this way again.
A great little resource on this topic is CCEF's little booklet by Robert Jones. They are available at the CCEF website.
www.ccef.org
Tim, thanks for the filter. I hope you will continue to add to it - it's good stuff.
Quoting from Watchman Nee whose writings I truly admire:
It is very important to remember that while God's Spirit is given to the believer once for all, our spirit must go on learning throughout life. Thus the more we learn, the more we can discern. It is a source of grief to us that so many brothers and sisters in the Lord do not know how to exercise spiritual discernment. Too many fail to differentiate between what is of the Lord and what is of human nature. Only as we have experienced the Lord's strict dealing with us in a certain matter can we quickly detect even the initial sprouting in others. We do not need to wait for its fruit. We can discern long before harvest time. So our spiritual sensitivity is gradually gained through experiencing God's hand upon us. For example, someone may mentally condemn pride, yes, even preach against it, yet not sense the sinfulness of pride in his own spirit. Thus when pride appears in his brother, his spirit is not distressed ; it may even be sympathetic. Then the day comes when God's Spirit so works in his life that he really sees what pride is. He is dealt with by God, and his pride is consumed. Though his preaching against pride may sound the same as before, yet now every time a spirit of pride appears in his brother, he senses its ugliness and is distressed. What he has learned and seen from God enables him to sense and to be distressed. ("Distress" most suitably describes such an inward sensitivity.) Now that he recognizes this ailment, he can serve his brother. Once he was attacked by the same affliction ; now he is cured. (This does not imply that he should claim complete deliverance--simply that he knows some measure of cure.) This is how we come to spiritual knowledge.
Spiritual sensitivity comes about only through many dealings. Are we really profited if we preserve ourselves? "For whosoever shall save his life shall lose it." We must ask the Lord not to withdraw His hand from us. How tragic not to recognize what the Lord is doing. We may even be unwittingly resisting His hand. The absence of spiritual- understanding is due to the lack of spiritual learning. Therefore, let us realize that the more we are dealt with, the more we shall know men and things, and the more we can supply others' needs. There is no other way to enlarge the sphere of service ; we must broaden the scope of dealings.
I would urge caution and discernment regarding anything written by Watchman Nee or Witness Lee.
Nee promotes "inward sensitivities" far above and beyond outward authorities such as the Word of God.
Brian,
We should urge caution and discernment with ANY author. The Bereans were lauded for not just taking Paul at his word, but checking to see if the things he said were true.
One more thought on forgiveness. The ultimate issue I think Christians can agree on is that God's forgiveness is the one that is of ultimate importance. If we settle that - other issues of guilt can be dealt with. For example - young woman becomes a Christian and has emotional scars from having an abortion in her past. If she can settle the issue of God's forgiveness thru the cross of Christ - then it becomes a matter of letting God be God. He is the judge - we are not. To refuse to forgive ourselves when God has forgiven us is to position ourselves in the place of God - which we cannot do. The concept of self-forgiveness is at its worst - man taking his seat at the throne of God once again. In most cases - I think self forgiveness is just poor language used to express deep guilt or regret. The solution is always the cross - take the focus off of self - let Him reign.
Jerry, I believe your comments in #25 are exactly what the song is about. How dare we refuse to forgive ourselves when God has forgiven us? If we must somehow do penance, we are back in a works-righteousness prison.
Bill, I wasn't expecting you to draw and quarter me. My point was simply that I can disagree with Tim on this one without being a flaming emergent liberal! :-)
Forgiving yourself is wrong
So Don, do you really believe you have to hang on to your guilt even though Christ paid your debt? I don't think you can muster up any Scripture to support that. Please re-read Hebrews 12:1 to see that we are to be pro-active in our sanctification. True faith in Christ results in a peace with God that is only possible if we forgive ourselves as well. Otherwise we diminish the work of Christ by clinging to our guilt.
Great post Tim. I especially like "Hold Fast." It can be hard to stand strong when it seems like the rest of the evangelical world is calling you "intolerant" and "close-minded."
Just found your blog for the first time, via a link to this article. I'm looking forward to the rest of the series on discernment.
A couple of years ago, my wife and I were helping somebody who had suffered severe abuse for most of her life. One of the things she said concerning one incident was "I can't forgive myself for ...". I found myself about to go down the line of exploring why she felt like that and helping her to be able to forgive herself, when God really jarred me before I even opened my mouth: "Wrong! She can only let go of her guilt when she knows that I've forgiven her."
In my own life, there are things in my past of which I'm not proud. The only way to being set free of the guilt was receiving - really knowing and experiencing - God's forgiveness and love. "Forgiving myself" sounds so inviting and plausible upon first inspection - but it's both impossible, and not required.
I'm also helping people who had been taught to forgive themselves and thought that they had - only to have guilt surface again and again. I really believe that the concept of "forgiving ourselves" is a deceit of the enemy to keep us bound.
The issue is not our involvement in the process - we clearly are (e.g. Hebrews 12:1) - but our definition of "forgiveness". We need His forgiveness, not our own. But for our part we do need to truly accept it in order to receive it. I don't think that process is "self-forgiveness". I think that process is coming into true belief that God has forgiven us (which will take some time, prayer, patience, help from others, and genuine encounter with the person of God).
I just heard this song for the first time today and I was sobbing. I went to look up the lyrics and found this discernment page.
I was wondering where supporting scripture might be--since for me it would be looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack when it comes to finding my way around the bible.
Your words helped me to further explore my reasons for sobbing and or perhaps misinterpreting my cries.