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A La Carte (10/18)
- 10/18/10
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It is always good to be away at a conference. But, of course, it’s always just a little bit better to be home. And I’m home again now and for the next few weeks (except for a brief day-long trip to Grand Rapids this weekend).
Getty Blog - I’m not sure how I missed that Keith Getty has a blog (he mentioned it this weekend when I was chatting with him). He’s got a few good articles there—one on collaboration and another on the excellent hymn “By Faith” both caught my attention.
Why Are Pastors Fat? - Erik touches on a touchy subject. “I have been in full time ministry for 5+ years now. Prior to this I have been heavily involved in local church ministry since my conversion over 10 years ago. One thing that has always intrigued me is overweight pastors. If you want to get a gage on how prevalent this is, you just have to visit a pastors' conference. I am not saying that everyone is rockin' the elastic waist pants, but, there are a lot of guys that, well, are fat.”
The New Calvins - Have you read this bizarre article from The Economist? What a mess.
The Case for Alcohol Abstinence - Daniel Akin has posted an article defending his view that we should abstain from alcohol. I don’t know that I’ve ever said much about my views on alcohol on this blog (in short, alcohol makes me sick so I don’t drink it, but I’m not at all opposed to others drinking it with moderation), but I post this as a kind of FYI, even though I disagree with it. I think it’s helpful to see the argument laid out like this.
An Egalitarian Gets Biblical - Here’s a forthcoming book that may just be interesting. Maybe.
Hakeleje - A song for a Monday morning.
The first sexual thought in the universe was God’s, not man’s. —Doug Barnett
I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a husband to Aileen and a father to three young children. I worship and serve as a pastor at 
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Comments (16)
I have heard the arguments about alcohol before . For a while I even went there but after reading all the Bible had to say , I just don’t buy into it anymore. Plus the idea that wine was not the same as today , was watered down is a bit of a forced reading . It is clear from history that ancient people got drunk with wine . In fact the choicest wine was the strongest , not diluted. I wonder how he deals with Jesus turning the water into the wine and it was the best .Drunkenness is a sin and to abuse alcohol is wrong but that is as far as the Bible goes .To go any further is to read ones own bias into the text. I will give an example of it being used in a medical fashion. My wife cannot take any seizure meds , she is severely allergic to all . But at times she has problems with seizures at night . So her doctor gave her permission to use alcohol like Brandy to relax her and help stop them . So needless to say I’m not a good Baptist.I do respect others who decide to abstain and at the same time , if I enjoy a beer now and again , I do not flaunt it ether but do not imply not drinking is so how more spiritual . Even though he tried not to go there in the article , anytime one does it is implied..
Like you, I appreciate Akin’s argument, although I don’t fully agree. Also, I think we should be cautious not to repeat the Pharisee’s error in Luke 7:34, when they accused Jesus of being “a drunkard” because he drank wine in moderation, in contrast to John the Baptist, who abstained.
As Paul points out in 1 Tim 4:1-5, asceticism is a false teaching.
I think Akin’s strongest points are where he points out the ravages of alcohol on society, with which his wife has had direct, painful experience, or in pointing out that alcohol can easily be addicting (a very serious point indeed), or the strongest point: in being cautious not to make our brothers stumble.
Unfortunately, some of his other points really don’t support the argument, and sound almost like he’s arguing from a position of asceticism. “Does alcohol make me a better person? Does alcohol draw me closer to God? Does alcohol help me run the race faithfully to the end?” This could also be said about all sorts of pleasant things God has blessed us with that nevertheless can become unhealthy, addictive idols. “Does chocolate make me a better person? Does chocolate draw me closer to God? Does chocolate help me run the race faithfully to the end?”
What’s more, after arguing somewhat persuasively for complete abstinence, Akin seems to undermine it near the end by implying that wine mixed with water might be okay. Which is really a “moderation” argument, not an “abstinence” one, because at that point, you’ve conceded that some amount of wine is okay, it’s HOW MUCH one drinks that’s in question.
There are plenty of passages that clearly demonstrate the problems that come from excessive drinking, but there are a lot of passages that affirm moderate drinking as a blessing from God, in contrast to asceticism. The strongest examples are: - David gives thanks in Ps 104 for wine, “to gladden the heart of man” - The feast prophesied in Isaiah 25 will include “aged wine well refined” alongside “rich food.” - As mentioned at the beginning, the Pharisees in Luke 7:34 accused Jesus of being “a drunkard” because he drank wine in moderation, unlike John the Baptist who abstained. - In the letters to Timothy and Titus, deacons and older women are warned against “much wine,” not “any wine at all” - Paul suggests Timothy drink wine to help him with some sort of stomach ailment (almost certainly indicating a strong wine, not wine diluted with water)
Ultimately, I appreciate that Akin included this caution from Romans 14: “Should those who practice abstinence look down on those who do not? The answer is an unqualified no.”
Likewise, we who think alcohol is okay in moderation need to remember further in that chapter where Paul says: “Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God.” If we insist on exploiting our liberty in Christ at the expense of the spiritual growth of others in the community, we are sinning in a very serious way.
In the end, this might be the best argument against alcohol there is. Not inspired by asceticism or legalism, but rather, love.
Loved the YouTube clip for today. Thanks for sharing!
Re: fat pastors: Some thoughts:
1. Pastors skew “older” vs. the overall population.2. In the US, at least, pastors probably skew toward the southern states, and the southern states are generally more obese than the “godless” northeast and northwest. (Some of the difference is almost surely due to differences in racial makeup, but not all.)3. Pastors skew married, and one might hypothesize that married men devote less effort to physical fitness because they’re not seeking to attract a mate.4. At the conferences Tim attends, pastors most likely skew conservative, and I’d not be surprised if (among whites) conservatives were more likely to be obese. No stats to back that up though.
Re: alcohol: Really? I don’t think one can get around the twin facts that 1) Jesus drank, and 2) Jesus made alcohol for other people to drink (Cana). Were there no drunks or alcoholics in 1st century Palestine?
ANYTHING that owns us that is not Jesus is a sin. Alcohol, the Internet, playing video games, going to church (yes, even church), reading, even serving others all have the potential to wrest the throne away from Jesus.
The problem is that all those things can have value and are good within the proper contexts.
We Christians love to call this thing a sin or that thing an instrument of the devil. The fact is that most things in life are neutral. Whether they own us or not is what determines their spiritual value (or detriment).
Some people shouldn’t drink alcohol because of its potential to own them. Some people shouldn’t post comments on blogs on the Internet because of its potential to own them.
Staying wise to our spiritual stumbling blocks and listening to the Spirit’s leading in all things is the path to true Christian maturity. Let’s stop with the law and start learning to live by the Spirit and by grace!
Piggybacking on Buddyglass, do pastors skew more overweight than other people of similar age profile with sedentary jobs and (in many cases) workdays that can stretch over a 14 hour period?
If so, one hypothesis is that pastors spend a lot of time in meetings and gatherings where food is present. It’s hard to go to any church function where you don’t see coffee and donuts, desserts, other rich treats, or even whole meals (that you have to partake of heartily to show appreciation.)
Having grown up in an alcoholic home, I have seen ravages… but the ravages were from sin, not from the liquid. It is not the substance but the sin which is the problem. How many alcoholics have gotten off the alcohol only to remain bitter, angry, controlling and prideful on top of it? These are all heart issues. Sin issues. The abuse of alcohol is a symptom of the sins in our heart. We all have these sin issues but often the symptoms are less glaring, and more socially acceptable. We’ve mistaken the symptom for the problem if we take care of the outside but force the sin further underground where it grows and festers even more easily. My .02.
I may be making a lot of enemies on this one: I think part of the reason many pastors are fat is because they DON’T drink alcohol!
When a Christian drinks responsibly, they have one, or maybe two beers/glasses of wine etc. Moderation is built in to the practice of consuming it.
If you don’t drink alcohol, what do you drink? Coke. Sweet tea. Sugar. A SMALL coke at Wendy’s is what, 22 oz? No wonder!
My dad had a serious problem with alcohol and drug abuse and I really don’t buy the idea that alcohol was the problem.
Furthermore, I find it very unsettling that a church would enter a covenant or resolution that Jesus himself would not have been able to sign. Communion historically has been WINE not juice. It’s not to say that it matters what you physically consume, but I find it offensive to ban something that Jesus serves at his table!
I had never heard of Rachel Held Evans until last week when I saw her blog article about writing A Year of Biblical Womanhood. While I’m sure that Evans has good intentions, I was greatly disturbed by her depiction of biblical womanhood. She mixes up OT ceremonial laws (living in a tent during her monthly period), descriptions taken from wisdom literature (sewing her own clothes), NT cultural practices (head coverings), and timeless biblical commands for women (submitting to her husband) and calls the confused end result “biblical womanhood.” Personally, I could only groan at the thought of Christian women reading this book and becoming further confused regarding God’s design for womanhood.
KATEG’s post is one of the best, most reasonable, and biblical arguments I’ve ever seen on all the blogs that want to argue over the alcohol problem.
“Some people shouldn’t post comments on blogs on the Internet because of its potential to own them. ”
LOL.
Re: why pastors are fat, seriously, race is now the excuse why some people are fat? How about the fact that they sit all day, like most Americans?
Tim,Any clue where we can find a translation of the video you linked to today? Also, what language is it in?Digging the sounds though, thanks!
The song is in what i believe to be the Sotho language. You can find the lyrics in that dialect here:
http://www.sowetogospelchoir.com/LYRICS.html
Lyrics translated in English:
When I’m bad and awful among all sinnersHow did he notice meThis is a miracle that i’m also loved by the Lord
You have searched for me for yearsand you have found meYou have saved my life my Lord
This is a miracle that i’m also loved by such great lovefrom my Lord
Just read this from Psychology Today:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010…
Drinking alcohol is a function of intelligence…smarter people statistically drink more.
;)
That study ought to crank-up the debate to 11…enjoy.
@Ben: “Furthermore, I find it very unsettling that a church would enter a covenant or resolution that Jesus himself would not have been able to sign.”
That about sums it up, doesn’t it? Amazing that no one bothers to ask themselves, “If Jesus couldn’t join our denomination, are we still Christian?”
RE: Fat Pastors: Ah, and if the pastor takes time for bike rides, going to the gym or any other leisure, there’s always a gaggle of boneheads ready to trash him (behind his back, of course) for “not doing his job” or “just playing around instead of praying/studying/whatever” or “not giving his all to the Lord” etc. Sad fact is, MOST pastors are taught — directly or indirectly, but clearly — the ministry comes first, not family, health or anything else.
And I say this as a guy who could stand to lost 40 lbs.
Hope you enjoyed Grand Rapids, Tim. Paying a visit to your CK co-host perhaps? ;-)